The Jewishness of the Christian Faith
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jeremiah1five
Active Member
Your earlier posts are in error. You are infected by Constantinian Gentile theologies that seek to replace what is Hebrew and Jewish with Gentile. You believe Gentiles were under the Law in contradiction to Scripture that says only the Hebrew people led out of their Egyptian bondage by Moses are the seed of Abraham.
God made covenant with the Hebrew people in the desert at Mount Sinai, and this is recorded in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.
You can show me in the Old Testament where God made covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles, tell me the terms of this covenant, and the name of the Gentile that represented the Gentiles as Abraham represented the Hebrew people to be born from him.
That's all. Show me in the Old Testament where God made covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. Show me from the Old Testament when the high priest after praying and offering blood sacrifices for the children of Israel he leaves and goes to non-Hebrew Gentiles in Gentile land and prays for them and offers sacrifices every year for their sins as he does for the children of Israel.
You either provide Scripture and verse or everything you say is chatter and worse.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Scripture please.
Galatians 3:29
And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.
Pointing BACK TO:
Genesis 17:19
19 Then God said: “No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him.
We as Gentiles Christians are spiritual heirs to God’s promises to Abraham.
In Romans 11
We are grafted onto the Israel of God as wild (non-Jew Branches). The broken off natural branches are grafted BACK ON to the Israel of God.
The Israel of God are His People, His olive tree.
Jeremiah 11:16
The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.
And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.
Pointing BACK TO:
Genesis 17:19
19 Then God said: “No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him.
We as Gentiles Christians are spiritual heirs to God’s promises to Abraham.
In Romans 11
We are grafted onto the Israel of God as wild (non-Jew Branches). The broken off natural branches are grafted BACK ON to the Israel of God.
The Israel of God are His People, His olive tree.
Jeremiah 11:16
The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.
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FreeInChrist
Active Member
And it is the only important thing!!!
atpollard
Active Member
Proof that God can use ANYONE!Jesus and Paul were Jews and most of the NT is their words
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Saul was writing to Jews who were "under the Law" and "under a schoolmaster" (the Law.)
Stop taking things Hebrew and making them Gentile. You end up with false doctrine and understanding.
You quote the Scripture then you reject it. God says above, "I will establish my covenant with him (Isaac) for an everlasting covenant AND WITH HIS DESCENDANTS after him."
What part of "HIS DESCENDANTS" do you not understand. The covenant is biological. Natural Olive tree Israel became spiritual Olive tree Israel when the Holy Spirit baptized three thousand Jews into the body of Christ on the day of the Jewish Feast of Harvest recorded in Acts 2.
Nowhere in the Old Testament does God call Gentiles "Olive tree." Israel is the Olive tree. And like it says in Jeremiah the branches that were broken off for disobedience were grafted back in. Nothing in Jeremiah's words even remotely refer to Gentiles. You are adding to the Bible.
16 The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.
17 For the LORD of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal. Jeremiah 11:16–17.
Jeremiah is speaking to Jews of both the House of Israel and the House of Judah. So, which tribe do you belong? The ten northern kingdom tribes of Israel or the two southern kingdom tribes of Judah?
Which tribe were you born into?
I proved we are SPIRITUAL decendants of Abtaham WHEN WE AS gentiles are in Christ. You are too hard headed to accept it. Go back and see your error or leave me alone. All I can do is kick the dust off my sandals and move on. I am more than OK for you to mistakenly think you are right. Save your keystrokes.
By the way re-read Romans 11. We ARE called grafted in wild branches to God’s olive tree, the Israel of God, NOT national Israel. AND WE CERTAINLY weren‘t grafted into Jeremiah.
This article below gave all the proofs I gave so maybe you will listen to them. If not my sandal dust will fly.
AGAIN, think SPIRITUAL Decendants of Abraham. Paul understood the difference in SPIRITUAL and physical decendants.
By the way re-read Romans 11. We ARE called grafted in wild branches to God’s olive tree, the Israel of God, NOT national Israel. AND WE CERTAINLY weren‘t grafted into Jeremiah.
This article below gave all the proofs I gave so maybe you will listen to them. If not my sandal dust will fly.
AGAIN, think SPIRITUAL Decendants of Abraham. Paul understood the difference in SPIRITUAL and physical decendants.
What does it mean that those who are of faith are sons of Abraham (Galatians 3:7)? | GotQuestions.org
What does it mean that those who are of faith are sons of Abraham? What is the meaning of Galatians 3:7?
www.gotquestions.org
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Let's tone it down a bit
jeremiah1five
Active Member
You haven't proved anything. You make comments of this and that but don't provide the Scripture from the Old Testament of non-Hebrew Gentiles ever had covenant with God for their salvation.
Everything that is written about in the New Testament can be found promised or prophesied in the Old Testament, and given that Jesus said He didn't come to destroy the Law - or change it - then under the Law the animal that was sacrificed and whose blood was sprinkled upon the Hebrew people and on the Mercy Seat of the Ark of the Covenant was for the temporary and yearly atonement of the sins of God's covenant people: the children of Israel.
What you do is claim that Gentiles are Abraham's spiritual seed, but you fail to provide Scripture from the Old Testament that says such a thing and when called on it you don't have the common sense to accept what Scripture says or doesn't say - and get all twisted up because you are called on it.
Now, if you can show me the Scripture that non-Hebrew Gentiles were under the Law and whose sins were covered yearly by the high priest and the ministry he provided to the children of Israel, then such beliefs must be abandoned and reception of the Scripture that is there to tell you WHAT to believe is to be accepted. The truth of the matter is that God made NO COVENANT with non-Hebrew Gentiles, and they were never under the Law, and the high priest did not leave Israel to go to the Gentiles and pray and offer sacrifices to God for their sins. You fail to accept the Scripture as a true believer should and instead reject Scripture in order to maintain your false belief and theology. Non-Hebrew gentiles are NOT born from two Hebrew parents and there are NO GENTILES who were under the Law as Israel was, nor is there any Gentile with whom God made covenant nor does Scripture along with not having Scripture that says that nor do we have the name of this non-Hebrew Gentile with whom God made any kind of covenant with in Scripture.
The Bible teaches that ONLY ISRAEL was under the Law and the sacrifices commanded by God of the children of Israel in the Law cites that ONLY ISRAEL is the natural Olive tree and that with the advent of the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL by God through Joel was the day - Pentecost - in which they became spiritual Olive tree Israel. In order to be called "Abraham's spiritual seed" one must FIRST be His natural seed because the Holy Spirit of Promise is never promised to Gentiles by the Jewish prophets and ONLY ISRAEL is the true heirs of the promises made by God to Abraham and his biological seed.
Type and shadow. Do you know what that is?
Show me in the Old Testament where God calls non-Hebrew Gentiles an Olive tree. The Olive tree is what identifies Israel and not Gentiles. There is no Scripture in the Old Testament where God calls Gentiles an Olive tree. The Olive tree is what represents Israel - NOT Gentiles. Those Saul says that are grafted BACK IN the Olive tree are the same people Jeremiah says is grafted back in the Olive tree and that means disobedient Jews - NOT Gentiles.
Another false belief you hold in your heart. NOWHERE does God say "shaking the dust off your feet" is ever done to fellow believers. You don't do that to a true born-again Christian in whom Christ resides. That's the same as rejecting Christ.
God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) and with his biological seed. This is why God is known as the God of Abraham (father), Isaac (son), and Jacob (Holy Spirit. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, NOT the god of Manny, Moe, and Jack!AGAIN, think SPIRITUAL Decendants of Abraham. Paul understood the difference in SPIRITUAL and physical decendants.
What does it mean that those who are of faith are sons of Abraham (Galatians 3:7)? | GotQuestions.org
What does it mean that those who are of faith are sons of Abraham? What is the meaning of Galatians 3:7?www.gotquestions.org
If you are getting your beliefs from "Got Questions" and do not do your own due diligence and study those things Got Questions says, then all you're doing is regurgitating things you read online and THAT is NOT the behavior of true born-again believers. Believers are to TEST everything against the Word of God in order to come to the knowledge of the truth. But you don't do that. You prefer to regurgitate things you read without critically thinking through those things you read and hold them up to Scripture that either supports or refutes those things you read and post here.
In order to claim that Gentiles are the spiritual seed of Abraham you have to prove from the Old Testament that Gentiles are the natural seed of Abraham and they are NOT. Non-Hebrew children cannot be born from two Hebrew parents. This is obvious. But you seem to think that a Chinese baby can be born from two Black parents.
Show me the Scripture in the Old Testament where God calls non-Hebrews Olive tree.
If it's not chapter and verse, then it is chatter or worse.
Yea I have proved my point. Thank you very much.
Galatians 3:29 (all English Versions) agree with my statement about Gentile Christians being SPIRITUAL heirs or descendants of Abraham. I will not be wasting my time responding to you anymore, so knock yourself out, and make it a good one!
www.biblegateway.com
Galatians 3:29 (all English Versions) agree with my statement about Gentile Christians being SPIRITUAL heirs or descendants of Abraham. I will not be wasting my time responding to you anymore, so knock yourself out, and make it a good one!
Galatians 3:29 - Bible Gateway
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One more, God calls his chosen people Israel HIS olive tree in the OT. In Romans 11 we as Gentile Christians are grafted into Spiritual Israel (not the gdographic countrynin the Middle East) HIS olive tree (Not Jeremiah’s) when we come to faith in Jesus. There is not two stories, but GOD’s ONE story Genesis to Revelation. His story of man’s redemption cryptically revealed in Genesis 15 and consummated in Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. Fufilling the blood oath covenant of Genesis 15. Where God symbolicly sententenced Christ to death in our stead because Abraham was never going to ever be able to meet his end of the bargain. Christ walked our part of the blood path covenant (as the flaming torch and God participated as the smoking fire pot) and Jesus said it is finished - what God set in motion approx 1500 years earlier. Through this we as Gentiles become heirs to the promises of Abraham and SPIRITUAL decendants to Abraham. Irrefutably so. But refute, I’m sure you will try.
Galations 3: 26-29
Galations 3: 26-29
| 26 ¶ For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. |
| 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. |
| 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. |
| 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. |
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P. S. I never said or indicated that God included non-Hebrew Jews in the Old Testament as His Olive Tree or His people. He DID graft on the wild branches (nom-Jewish Christians in Romans 11) i don’t mind legitimate criticism, but no need to harp on things I didn’t say or write. I can debate and defend, but not things I didn’t say. Maybe just read my replies a little slower. I will commit the same on yours. I will commit to calmer discourse. As I said, you and I will never sway each other, (that’s OK REALLY!) but others may benefit or be motivativated to further study from something we might say, and that’s worth something.
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jeremiah1five
Active Member
God made NO COVENANT with non-Hebrew Gentiles.
Jeremiah identifies Israel as an Olive tree and those branches broken off are those Israelites who are disobedient to God. But God rejoins those disobedient Israelites BACK INTO the Olive tree.
16 The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.
17 For the LORD of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal. Jeremiah 11:16–17.
These things God has spoken to Israel and Judah. There are NO GENTILES here. And to later add Gentiles to what Saul has written in his letters to Jews at Rome is to add to the Word of God.
6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:6.
Anyone who adds to the Word of God is a LIAR.
Plain and simple.
Adam did it. Eve did it. And so do you and others.
I NEVER said God did that in the OT. In the New Testament it says we as Christian Gentiles are made heirs by faith in Christ to the promises to Abraham, Galatians 3:26 - 29. The heirs also to a savior of all of mankind from Abraham’s lineage. God's covenant with Abraham in Genesis 12, 15 and 17 promised Abraham he would make him a great nation, give him certain land, and that all peoples on earth would be blessed through his descendants.
When we are in Christ we become heirs to the promises God made to Abraham in his covenant with Abraham. Paul comfirms it in Galatians 3.
As a result, I did NOT lie about God’s WORD as you said in the last few linea of yoir post above. Let’s get along and discuss.
When we are in Christ we become heirs to the promises God made to Abraham in his covenant with Abraham. Paul comfirms it in Galatians 3.
As a result, I did NOT lie about God’s WORD as you said in the last few linea of yoir post above. Let’s get along and discuss.
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jeremiah1five
Active Member
No, you are taking words written by Saul and addressed to Jews and making it into Gentile but you are wrong.
Here is the passage you are misinterpreting: PAY ATTENTION!
23 But before faith came, we [JEWS] were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our [JEWS] schoolmaster to bring us [JEWS] unto Christ, that we [JEWS] might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we [JEWS] are no longer under a schoolmaster [the Law.]
26 For ye [JEWS] are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you [JEWS] as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek [Hellenized], there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye [JEWS] are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye [JEWS] be Christ’s, then are ye [still JEWS and] Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:22–29.
Gentiles were never under the Law which Saul calls a "schoolmaster."
Gentiles are NOT the seed of Abraham biologically and were NEVER heirs through birth because Gentiles are not born from Abraham. It is IMPOSSIBLE for non-Hebrew Gentiles to be born from two Hebrew parents. I've told you this already. So, look at the letter and what Saul is saying to Jews above. JEWS WERE UNDER THE LAW, not Gentiles.
By you claiming that Gentiles are heirs is to make Jesus change the Law which He did not do. He fulfilled the Law. This means that as the animal that was sacrificed under the Law yearly to temporarily atone the sins of the Jews Jesus was substituted for the animal and died - like the animal - to atone the sins of the Jews.
Learn something.
Paul wrote the verse in Galatians I quoted that said we as Gentile Christians are heir to the promises. Sorry i’m not sure why you have a problem with what Paul clearly stated.
Also, when Jesus fulfilled the Law, he filled it BACK up to its originally full extentas God intendended. The word translated full fill in Mathew 5:17 pleroo means literally to fill up or fill full. For instance Jesus said “you have heard it said, do not kill, but I say to you do not even have anger in your heart.” Full fill means to fill to the full as God intended. Jesus raised the bar of the Law back to where God intended, not just the letter of the law as the Pharisees and other Jewish leaders had effectively emptied it of its intended purpose with their endless traditions of men. The context of the entire Sermon on the Mount in Mathew 5 supports that. Yes, Jesus properly interpreted back to the full what the Pharisees had effectively emptied or perverted of the Law. Jesus spent much time railing against their traditions of men.
Also, when Jesus fulfilled the Law, he filled it BACK up to its originally full extentas God intendended. The word translated full fill in Mathew 5:17 pleroo means literally to fill up or fill full. For instance Jesus said “you have heard it said, do not kill, but I say to you do not even have anger in your heart.” Full fill means to fill to the full as God intended. Jesus raised the bar of the Law back to where God intended, not just the letter of the law as the Pharisees and other Jewish leaders had effectively emptied it of its intended purpose with their endless traditions of men. The context of the entire Sermon on the Mount in Mathew 5 supports that. Yes, Jesus properly interpreted back to the full what the Pharisees had effectively emptied or perverted of the Law. Jesus spent much time railing against their traditions of men.
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