The Jewishness of the Christian Faith

Antisemitic? I'm the only true friend of the Lord's people here at Berean. I have asked and no one has been able to show me from the Hebrew Scripture God making any kind of covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles.
There are no Gentiles in the Abraham Covenant, there are no Gentiles in the Mosaic Covenant, and there are definitely no Gentiles in the New Covenant recorded in Jeremiah 31:31-34.
Instead, Gentiles are guilty of inheritance theft and a usurpation of Israel's covenants and service to God.

Take a lesson from Saul. In the next verses out of Romans Saul lays out everything associated with salvation and the redemption of God holy people, a people ABOVE all families of the earth.

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth
the adoption
,
and the glory,
and the covenants,
and the giving of the law,
and the service of God,
and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers,
and of whom as concerning the flesh
Christ came
,
who is over all, God blessed for ever.
Amen.
Romans 9:4–5.

These things accompanying the salvation of the Hebrew people all belong to Israel, and there is nothing in the whole of the Bible that makes claims such things as these are said of Gentiles.

The Noahic Covenant is void of any mention of sin, death, atonement, and forgiveness of sins to the benefit of the Hebrew people. It is a covenant in which God promises to never again flood the earth. That's it.

11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth. Genesis 9:11.

That's it. No more flood. To try to bend God's Word and make it apply to salvation falls short for there is nothing of the sort in this covenant. If it was to be a covenant of salvation of souls and the redemption of a people the mechanism of substitutionary sacrifice is missing and you have no leg to stand on.
I see your using a Bible version that strips the Jewishness from the Gospel. People or things that suppress or cancel Jewishness for their own agenda are antisemitic. Now I really know what side of the street your on. Your opinion about Noah is another extreme falsehood. We know what opinions are? Opinions are like buttholes everyone has one. I don't think your a true friend to anyone here. You talk out of both sides of your mouth. You need to take some lessons on Jewish Biblical history and culture then your ignorance will not be so glaring.
Shabbat Shalom
 
I say again, God's covenant with Noah had nothing to do with sin, death, eternal life, salvation, or redemption of a person. So, what's heretical about saying the same thing as God?
I'm not the one who gets their theology from others. I study Scripture and like Saul, God gives me revelation of His Word.
You basically study ignorance and foolishness. You avoided my question on what cult your affiliated with? My guess is that your some radical legalistic independent fundamental baptist with antisemitic tendencies. These IFB people on Facebook are considered a cult. I usually put those people on ignore.
Shabbat Shalom
 
I see your using a Bible version that strips the Jewishness from the Gospel. People or things that suppress or cancel Jewishness for their own agenda are antisemitic. Now I really know what side of the street your on. Your opinion about Noah is another extreme falsehood. We know what opinions are? Opinions are like buttholes everyone has one. I don't think your a true friend to anyone here. You talk out of both sides of your mouth. You need to take some lessons on Jewish Biblical history and culture then your ignorance will not be so glaring.
Shabbat Shalom
If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you;
John 15:20.

I am in great company.
 
You basically study ignorance and foolishness. You avoided my question on what cult your affiliated with? My guess is that your some radical legalistic independent fundamental baptist with antisemitic tendencies. These IFB people on Facebook are considered a cult. I usually put those people on ignore.
Shabbat Shalom
I am not on facebook.

You are.

Now I understand why your "spirit" is foul.

"Come out from among them" doesn't register, does it.
 
I don't see any scripture in either testament that says we are to adhere to the "synagogue culturally". In fact, I don't even see where the Old Covenant speaks of meeting in a synagogue at all. Likewise, the New Testament doesn't speak of a "church building" in which Christians meet. One possible exception is "the school of Tyrannus" in Acts 19:9, in which Christians were taught temporarily for two years. But most assemblies met in homes, which is the most practical, because not everyone could travel the distance to that particular school.

Jesus said that He would build His church, but He never directed anyone to build a material building for assemblies.

Nor does the scripture tell us that when we are born again, we will become part of one of the twelve tribes of Israel. What a bizarre belief that is.

Paul said, "Be imitators of Me, just as I also am of Christ." 1 Corinthians 11:1
Did Paul keep the Law of Moses? No, not generally. He would keep some of it at times, so as to not offend the Jews that he was trying to win for Christ. But he said, " ... though not being myself under the Law; " 1 Corinthians 9:20 But when he was around Gentiles, he would zealously avoid keeping the Law, so they would not think that being a Christian meant keeping the Law.

So if he was imitating Christ, we know that Christ Himself also did not generally keep the Law, except occasionally for the same reason that Paul did.

But we know that the Law of Moses became obsolete, according to Hebrews 8:13. When did that happen? Well, God Himself started the ball rolling when He tore the temple veil in two, when Jesus said, "It is finished." About forty years later, in 70 A.D., He finished the job, by having Titus, the Roman general completely destroy the temple and Jerusalem.
 
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I don't see any scripture in either testament that says we are to adhere to the "synagogue culturally". In fact, I don't even see where the Old Covenant speaks of meeting in a synagogue at all. Likewise, the New Testament doesn't speak of a "church building" in which Christians meet. One possible exception is "the school of Tyrannus" in Acts 19:9, in which Christians were taught temporarily for two years. But most assemblies met in homes, which is the most practical, because not everyone could travel the distance to that particular school.

Jesus said that He would build His church, but He never directed anyone to build a material building for assemblies.

Nor does the scripture tell us that when we are born again, we will become part of one of the twelve tribes of Israel. What a bizarre belief that is.

Paul said, "Be imitators of Me, just as I also am of Christ." 1 Corinthians 11:1
Did Paul keep the Law of Moses? No, not generally. He would keep some of it at times, so as to not offend the Jews that he was trying to win for Christ. But he said, " ... though not being myself under the Law; " 1 Corinthians 9:20 But when he was around Gentiles, he would zealously avoid keeping the Law, so they would not think that being a Christian meant keeping the Law.

So if he was imitating Christ, we know that Christ Himself also did not generally keep the Law, except occasionally for the same reason that Paul did.

But we know that the Law of Moses became obsolete, according to Hebrews 8:13. When did that happen? Well, God Himself started the ball rolling when He tore the temple veil in two, when Jesus said, "It is finished." About forty years later, in 70 A.D., He finished the job, by having Titus, the Roman general completely destroy the temple and Jerusalem.
The Torah is not obsolete and Yeshua was an observant Jew that kept the Torah.
Shalom
 
I acknowledge the Old Covenant is good. Paul also said it was. But the New Covenant is better and the mediator of the New Covenant, Jesus, has obtained a more excellent ministry than Moses and the New Covenant has been enacted on better promises. Hebrews 8:8

But Hebrews 8:13 still says that the first covenant is obsolete. When you say that it is not, you are disagreeing with the Word of God. Christians don't contradict the Word of God. How and why is it obsolete? Well, it never saved anyone. "For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins." Hebrews 10:4 It is even more impossible for that to happen today, because there is no God-ordained temple in which to make sacrifices. Jesus and His blood sacrifice is the ONLY thing that can take away our sins and in fact, the sins of the whole world, according to the apostle John in 1 John 2:2. But that won't happen for any individual until he repents of his sins and acknowledges Jesus as His King, Savior and Lord.

It's impossible to keep the Old Covenant today. First off, it is obsolete. Second, even if it was not obsolete, if a person fails to keep one law, he is guilty of all. James said, "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all." James 2:10 Since there is no temple to offer an animal sacrifice on today, you have NO way to deal with your sin, other than the sacrifice of Jesus. But even if there was a legitimate temple today and you or a priest made an animal sacrifice for your sin, it still would do no good, because the Aaronic priesthood is gone - and Jesus already made the only sacrifice necessary for the forgiveness of our sins.

You can't have the Old and New Covenants at the same time.
"For on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God." Hebrews 7:18-19

Paul, who said he was not under the Law, said he imitated Christ, and that we should imitate him as he imitates Christ. 1 Cor. 11:1 So apparently Christ was not under the Law either. We know He was born under the Law, so his parents kept the Law, but apparently He did not live His life governed by the Law. Rather He introduced a New Covenant and the Law of Christ. That is what we are to obey today, not the Old Covenant.

If Christ kept the Law, then Paul would have imitated Him and also kept the Law and then he would be commanding us also to imitate him and keep the Law. But we are clearly told that the Law became obsolete when Christ died, so there's no Law to observe today, except the Law of Christ - i.e. the New Covenant and Jesus' commands.
 
I don't see any scripture in either testament that says we are to adhere to the "synagogue culturally". In fact, I don't even see where the Old Covenant speaks of meeting in a synagogue at all. Likewise, the New Testament doesn't speak of a "church building" in which Christians meet. One possible exception is "the school of Tyrannus" in Acts 19:9, in which Christians were taught temporarily for two years. But most assemblies met in homes, which is the most practical, because not everyone could travel the distance to that particular school.
When Jews and mixed heritage Jews returned from the Feast of Harvest celebration in Jerusalem, the time in which it is recorded in Acts 2 when the Holy Spirit of Promise arrived, these Jews and mixed heritage Jews returned to their homes and synagogues in the Gentile lands where they lived the returned to their synagogues and testified of their experiences with the Holy Spirit, an outline of Peter's sermon, and Jesus on their lips and in their hearts. They testified to the realities that occurred in Jerusalem soon after their King of Israel, their Lord and Messiah was crucified. The most central thoughts in their minds was how a man who claimed to be the Son of God was crucified, died, and resurrected from the grave. But in time the Jews who did not attend the Feast and were not born-again, came upon a stumbling block. They could not reconcile how their supposed Messiah, Lord, and Savior could be hung on a tree, which in the Law such a person is cursed before God. In time animosities developed, soon excommunication from the synagogues led to the Christians gathering at home, and then outright persecution (Acts 7-8.)

The Church Jesus promised to build has nothing to do with a building or synagogue. It has to do with being called out from among the brethren and it can include conversion, but mostly it refers to being born-again.
Jesus said that He would build His church, but He never directed anyone to build a material building for assemblies.

Nor does the scripture tell us that when we are born again, we will become part of one of the twelve tribes of Israel. What a bizarre belief that is.
The twelve disciples of the lamb represented the twelve tribes of Israel and only them. No one who is born again is literally become joined to one of the twelve tribes. When one is born again they retain their DNA and are not miraculously changed their DNA to match the DNA of one of the twelve tribes. But it is my belief that everyone who is born again by the Spirit is spiritually joined to one of the twelve tribes of Israel.
Paul said, "Be imitators of Me, just as I also am of Christ." 1 Corinthians 11:1
Did Paul keep the Law of Moses? No, not generally. He would keep some of it at times, so as to not offend the Jews that he was trying to win for Christ. But he said, " ... though not being myself under the Law; " 1 Corinthians 9:20 But when he was around Gentiles, he would zealously avoid keeping the Law, so they would not think that being a Christian meant keeping the Law.
Correction. Saul DID keep the Law of Moses as a born-again Christian. His walk as a rabbi and Pharisee continued even after he became a Christian, and as a Pharisee he remained a pharisee all his life.

24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:24.

Saul not only obeyed the Law but he partook of the practices and rituals under the Law.

26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.
Acts 21:26.

Saul remained a Pharisee all his life:

6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.
Acts 23:6.

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
Acts 24:14.

8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all. Acts 25:8.

5 Which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee. Acts 26:4–5.

23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. Acts 28:23.

Is this enough? Saul enjoyed the respect of the chief priests and the elders, and everyone associated with the Temple.
He was seen as one who stayed faithful to the Law of Moses and also taught other born-again Jewish Christians from out of the Law where Christ is described.
So if he was imitating Christ, we know that Christ Himself also did not generally keep the Law, except occasionally for the same reason that Paul did.

But we know that the Law of Moses became obsolete, according to Hebrews 8:13. When did that happen? Well, God Himself started the ball rolling when He tore the temple veil in two, when Jesus said, "It is finished." About forty years later, in 70 A.D., He finished the job, by having Titus, the Roman general completely destroy the temple and Jerusalem.
The Law is NOT "obsolete." It still serves a purpose among the Jews and especially among Jewish Christians of which Saul was one. What happened is that when we are converted our conversion is based upon the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses and the Tabernacle teach the Jews about the Christ and Messiah for the Law preaches and teaches believers and those under the Law the witness of Jesus Christ, Son of God, Lord and Messiah, and lamb of God.
Take away the Law of Moses and NO ONE can be saved.

25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. Luke 24:25–27.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Galatians 3:24.

A person is saved because of the Law. And being ignorant of these truths is overlooked. God saves in accordance to the Law of Moses. The New Covenant is only the Law of Moses fulfilled by Christ.
The Law of Moses identifies Israel's Lord and Savior, King and Messiah, that is Jesus Christ and Him sacrificed.
 
I acknowledge the Old Covenant is good. Paul also said it was. But the New Covenant is better and the mediator of the New Covenant, Jesus, has obtained a more excellent ministry than Moses and the New Covenant has been enacted on better promises. Hebrews 8:8

But Hebrews 8:13 still says that the first covenant is obsolete. When you say that it is not, you are disagreeing with the Word of God. Christians don't contradict the Word of God. How and why is it obsolete? Well, it never saved anyone. "For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins." Hebrews 10:4 It is even more impossible for that to happen today, because there is no God-ordained temple in which to make sacrifices. Jesus and His blood sacrifice is the ONLY thing that can take away our sins and in fact, the sins of the whole world, according to the apostle John in 1 John 2:2. But that won't happen for any individual until he repents of his sins and acknowledges Jesus as His King, Savior and Lord.

It's impossible to keep the Old Covenant today. First off, it is obsolete. Second, even if it was not obsolete, if a person fails to keep one law, he is guilty of all. James said, "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all." James 2:10 Since there is no temple to offer an animal sacrifice on today, you have NO way to deal with your sin, other than the sacrifice of Jesus. But even if there was a legitimate temple today and you or a priest made an animal sacrifice for your sin, it still would do no good, because the Aaronic priesthood is gone - and Jesus already made the only sacrifice necessary for the forgiveness of our sins.

You can't have the Old and New Covenants at the same time.
"For on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God." Hebrews 7:18-19

Paul, who said he was not under the Law, said he imitated Christ, and that we should imitate him as he imitates Christ. 1 Cor. 11:1 So apparently Christ was not under the Law either. We know He was born under the Law, so his parents kept the Law, but apparently He did not live His life governed by the Law. Rather He introduced a New Covenant and the Law of Christ. That is what we are to obey today, not the Old Covenant.

If Christ kept the Law, then Paul would have imitated Him and also kept the Law and then he would be commanding us also to imitate him and keep the Law. But we are clearly told that the Law became obsolete when Christ died, so there's no Law to observe today, except the Law of Christ - i.e. the New Covenant and Jesus' commands.
You need to look at the Hebrew. The Torah is in the process of vanishing. I'm 71 years old and I am in the process of vanishing (aging), but until I pass I am very much alive and relevant.
Yeshua an observant Jew did keep the Torah. He attended festival's and high holidays. He wore a rabbinical robe with fringes.
I know Christians that hate the Old Testament. If it is obsolete why not remove it from your Bible? Why keep anything that is obsolete? Christians like to make Yeshua a Gentile. No! He was an observant Jew that kept the Torah.
I thought we already had this discussion before. Read and Learn
Shalom Aleichem
 
You ask, "Why not remove it from our Bible?"
Paul answers that question in 1 Corinthians 10:6 and 11:

"Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved."
"Now these things happened as an example, and they were written for our instruction upon whom the ends of the ages have come."
Also Paul said: "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."
And Jesus quoted the Old Covenant in Matthew 4:4: "Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."

So we can be instructed by the Law of Moses and learn many things from it, since it is the words of God, but God said that the New Covenant is better, because through Jesus and His shed blood, we all can have our sins forgiven and removed. That could not happen under the Law. Sins were only covered, not removed.

Paul said that "law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious..." 1 Timothy 1:9

Was Jesus righteous? Of course He was. Therefore the Law was not made for Him. He needed no law to keep Him righteous. Remember, "God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power." Acts 10:38

Paul said, "Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God." Romans 7:4

The Jews who became believers in Christ, do not have the Law slowly vanishing away from them. They are DEAD to the Law and it is DEAD to them.

You can't have the New Covenant and the Old Covenant at the same time.

Matthew 9:17 Jesus said that you can't put new wine into old wineskins. You can't add the New Covenant to the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant must be removed.

Hebrews 7:12 "For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also."

Why did the author of Hebrews say that the Law was "growing old and is ready to disappear."? Hebrews 8:13
It appears to be a prophecy of what would happen in 70 A.D., when Jerusalem and the temple were totally destroyed. At that point, living by the Law totally disappeared. Since there was no temple, the Law of Moses could not be fully obeyed. The same is true today. There is no temple, therefore the Law of Moses cannot still be in effect. To attempt to fully keep the Law of Moses today is not possible.
Hebrews was probably written before 64 A.D., when Nero began slaughtering Christians. Hebrews 12:4 says that they had not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood, so the book was most likely written before 64 A.D.
 
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You ask, "Why not remove it from our Bible?"
Paul answers that question in 1 Corinthians 10:6 and 11:

"Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved."
"Now these things happened as an example, and they were written for our instruction upon whom the ends of the ages have come."
Also Paul said: "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."
And Jesus quoted the Old Covenant in Matthew 4:4: "Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."

So we can be instructed by the Law of Moses and learn many things from it, since it is the words of God, but God said that the New Covenant is better, because through Jesus and His shed blood, we all can have our sins forgiven and removed. That could not happen under the Law. Sins were only covered, not removed.

Paul said that "law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious..." 1 Timothy 1:9

Was Jesus righteous? Of course He was. Therefore the Law was not made for Him. He needed no law to keep Him righteous. Remember, "God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power." Acts 10:38

Paul said, "Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God." Romans 7:4

The Jews who became believers in Christ, do not have the Law slowly vanishing away from them. They are DEAD to the Law and it is DEAD to them.

You can't have the New Covenant and the Old Covenant at the same time.

Matthew 9:17 Jesus said that you can't put new wine into old wineskins. You can't add the New Covenant to the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant must be removed.

Hebrews 7:12 "For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also."

Why did the author of Hebrews say that the Law was "growing old and is ready to disappear."? Hebrews 8:13
It appears to be a prophecy of what would happen in 70 A.D., when Jerusalem and the temple were totally destroyed. At that point, living by the Law totally disappeared. Since there was no temple, the Law of Moses could not be fully obeyed.
Hebrews was probably written before 64 A.D., when Nero began slaughtering Christians.
More false narratives. The Torah will become obsolete when the second coming of Messiah takes place. The Torah is the foundation on which all the Scriptures rest on. You can't have a second floor in a home without the first floor.
Shalom
 
More false narratives. The Torah will become obsolete when the second coming of Messiah takes place. The Torah is the foundation on which all the Scriptures rest on. You can't have a second floor in a home without the first floor.
Shalom
That sounds good but your statements are not based on what the Scripture says. I have given you Scripture for all of what I said. But you're just giving me your opinion, not Scripture to back it up.

Please explain how the Old Covenant can be fully obeyed today without the temple.
Please explain why the veil in the temple was supernaturally torn in two at the very moment Jesus said, "It is finished."

The Bible says that "no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 3:11 The Old Covenant is not our foundation. Jesus is.

Jesus said "You search the Scriptures (the Old Covenant) because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life." John 5:39

"So then you (Gentiles) are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the (Jewish) saints, and are of God's household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone." Ephesians 2:19-20

You are so steeped in your Jewishness, that you can't see the forest because the trees are in the way. We should be steeped in "Jesus-ness". Do you remember the Jews for Jesus? I don't know where they stand today, but they sure started out right with that name.

The emphasis in the Bible is Jesus, not being Jewish, no more so than my being English and Scottish. Yes, God had the Messiah come through the Jews, but He did that so that ALL NATIONS WOULD BE BLESSED, which was His promise to Abraham - Genesis 12:3, who by the way, was not a Jew. Paul said that the promise to Abraham was for him and his seed - Christ. Galatians 3:16 All those in Christ, Gentile or Jew are the recipients and heirs of Abraham's promise. It is those who have put their faith in Jesus, both Jew and Gentile, who are blessed, not Jews or Gentiles who have rejected the Messiah.

Jesus said to them, "Did you never read in the Scriptures, 'The stone which the builders rejected, this became the chief corner stone; this came about from the Lord, and it is marvelous in our eyes.'?
"Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you (unbelieving Jews) and given to a nation (the church, which includes both Jew and Gentile), producing the fruit of it." Matthew 21:42-43
 
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That sounds good but your statements are not based on what the Scripture says. I have given you Scripture for all of what I said. But you're just giving me your opinion, not Scripture to back it up.

Please explain how the Old Covenant can be fully obeyed today without the temple.
Please explain why the veil in the temple was supernaturally torn in two at the very moment Jesus said, "It is finished."

The Bible says that "no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 3:11 The Old Covenant is not our foundation. Jesus is.

Jesus said "You search the Scriptures (the Old Covenant) because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life." John 5:39

"So then you (Gentiles) are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the (Jewish) saints, and are of God's household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone." Ephesians 2:19-20

You are so steeped in your Jewishness, that you can't see the forest because the trees are in the way. We should be steeped in "Jesus-ness". Do you remember the Jews for Jesus? I don't know where they stand today, but they sure started out right with that name.

The emphasis in the Bible is Jesus, not being Jewish, no more so than my being English and Scottish. Yes, God had the Messiah come through the Jews, but He did that so that ALL NATIONS WOULD BE BLESSED, which was His promise to Abraham - Genesis 12:3, who by the way, was not a Jew. Paul said that the promise to Abraham was for him and his seed - Christ. Galatians 3:16 All those in Christ, Gentile or Jew are the recipients and heirs of Abraham's promise. It is those who have put their faith in Jesus, both Jew and Gentile, who are blessed, not Jews or Gentiles who have rejected the Messiah.

Jesus said to them, "Did you never read in the Scriptures, 'The stone which the builders rejected, this became the chief corner stone; this came about from the Lord, and it is marvelous in our eyes.'?
"Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you (unbelieving Jews) and given to a nation (the church, which includes both Jew and Gentile), producing the fruit of it." Matthew 21:42-43
This seems an appropriate place to look more intensively at how the Letter To A Group Of Messianic Jews ["To The
Hebrews"] deals with "old and "new" covenants.
"For if the system oicohanim is transformed, there must of necessity occur a transformation of Torah... Thus on one
hand, the earlier rule is set aside because of its weakness and inefficacy (for Torah did not bring anything to the goal);
and, on the other hand, a hope of something better is introduced, through which we are drawing near to God."
But "a transformation of Torah" does not imply its abolition. Specific rules are set aside---For example, the Torah has
to be adjusted to take account of Yeshua's role as cohen gadel [high priest]. Yet the Torah itself continues in force and
is to be observed, just as the Constitution is not abolished by being amended. We do not know when the "old"
covenant will vanish, but we do know that Yeshua said, "Until heaven and earth pass away, not so much as ayudor
a stroke will pass from the Torah---not until everything that must happen has happened.

I have given my writing to the question of how Messianic Judaism is to relate to the Torah because I am certain that
the lack of a correct, clear and relatively complete Messianic Jewish or Gentile Christian theology of the Law is not
only a major impediment to Christians' understanding their own faith, but also the greatest barrier to Jewish' people's
receiving the Gospel. Even though many Jews do not observe Torah, often neither knowing nor caring about it,
I stand by this statement; because attachment to the Torah is rooted deep in the Jewish people's memory, where
it affects attitudes unconsciously.

While ultimately the issue becomes who Yeshua is---Messiah, Son of the Living God, final Atonement, Lord of our
lives---the Church's problem here is mainly one of communication, of expressing the truth in ways that relate to
Jewish world-views. But the Church hardly knows what to make of the Torah or how to fit it together with the
New Testament. and if the Church doesn't know, don't expect the Jews to figure it out for them! I believe that
Christianity has gone to far astray in its dealings with the subject and that most urgent task of theology today
is get right its view of the Law (Torah).

Christianity organizes systematic theology by subjects it considers important. Thus topics like the Holy Spirit and
the person and work of the Messiah take a healthy amount of space in any Christian systematic theology.
Judaism too organizes its theological thinking into categories reflecting its concerns, its three main topics are
God, Israel (that is the Jewish people) and Torah.

Comparing Jewish and Christian theology, one finds that both devote much attention to God and to the people
of God (in one case the Jews, in the other the Church). It is all the more striking, therefore, to notice how much
Jewish thought and how little Christian theology addresses the topic of Torah---generally rendered in English
as "Law," although the meaning of the Hebrew word is "teaching."

And that is unfortunate for the Christians. It means, first, that most Christians have an overly simplistic understanding
of what the Law is all about; and, second, that Christianity has almost nothing relevant to say to Jews about one
of the three most important issues of their faith. The main reason for this is that Christian theology, with the
ant-Jewish bias it incorporated in its early centuries, misunderstood Sha'ul [Paul] and concluded that the Torah is
no longer in force. This is not the Jewish Gospel, nor is it the true Gospel. It is time for Christians to understand
the truth about the Law [Torah].

Romans 10:4 Did The Messiah End The Law?
Consider Romans 10:4, which states---in a typical but wrong translation---"For Christ ends the law and brings
righteousness for everyone who has faith." Like this translator, most theologians understand the verse to say
that Yeshua terminated the Torah. But the Greek word translated "ends" is telos, from which English gets the word
"teleology," defined in Webster's Third International Dictionary as "The philosophical study of the evidences of
design in nature; . . . the fact or the character of being directed toward an end or shaped by a purpose---used
of---nature. . . . conceived as determined . . . by the design of a divine Providence . . . . "The normal meaning of
telos in Greek---which is also its meaning here---is "goal, purpose, consummation." not "termination."

The Messiah did not and does not bring the Torah to an end. Rather, attention to and faith in the Messiah is
the goal and purpose toward which the Torah aims, the logical consequence, result and consummation of
observing the Torah out of genuine faith, as opposed to trying to observe it out of legalism. This , not the
termination of Torah, is Sha'ul's point, as can be seen from the context, Romans 9:30-10:11.

The Gospel With An Ended Law Is No Gospel At All
The statement has been made that of the three mentioned earlier as most important on the Jewish theological
agenda, Reform Jews focus mainly on "God," the Conservatives on "Israel" and the Orthodox on "Torah"
Now if Christianity comes into an environment with the message that the Torah is no longer in force, the line
of communication with Orthodox Judaism is simply cut. There is no longer anything to discuss. Thus if Christianity
cannot address the issue of Torah properly and seriously, it has nothing to say to the Jewish people. The central
concern of Orthodox Judaism itself is dismissed, perhaps with a casual and cavalier citation of Romans 6:14
"We're not under the law but grace." In my opinion this shallow, sterile way of thinking has gone on too long in
the Church. Moreover, this way of thinking is not only shallow, but perverse! Yeshua said very plainly in the theme
sentence of the Sermon on the Mount, "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law. . . I did not come to abolish,
but plesorai, "to fill." We learned earlier that Yeshua's "filling" here means making clear the full and proper sense
of Torah; and we pointed out that even if pier meant "fulfillment," it could not be twisted to mean "abolition," in
contradiction to what he had said three words earlier. This seems so clear that it is hard for me to understand
how Christianity theology has even dared to propose the idea that the Torah is no more.

I myself believe it came about because of anti-Jewish bias infused into the Gentile Church in its early centuries;
this bias is so pervasive and difficult to root out that even Christians without any personal antisemitism whatever
are unavoidably affected by it.

Shalom Aleichem שלום עליכם
 
You are willingly rejecting the clear teaching of the word of God and specifically, Paul. You don't like to hear that the Law of Moses is no longer authoritative to those Jews who used to be governed by it. Even though Jeremiah prophesied of a New covenant which, according to the author of Hebrews, is better than the Old, you somehow think that we can hang on to the Old - and still have the New also. But Jesus Himself said that "new wine must be put into new wineskins".

God told Peter, James, and John, on the Mount of Tranfiguration that they were to listen to His beloved Son, not Moses and not Elijah. It's clear that their new authority was Jesus, not the Law, and not the Prophets. But you don't want to hear that. Your loyalty to Judaism is suffocating you - keeping you in bondage, which is exactly what the Law does to people who won't let go of it. Jesus came to "redeem those who were under the Law", that they might receive the adoption as sons. Galatians 4:5
I can see from your last post that you are deceived into thinking that all Jews are the people of God. Paul says in Romans 9:6 "For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham's seed (descendants), ... it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise who are regarded as seed (descendants).
You also are mistaken when you say that we are to "look at the Torah out of genuine faith", rather than looking at Jesus and His teachings in faith. Jesus said to teach new disciples "all that I commanded you", not the Torah, not the Ten Commandments. Matthew 28:20
 
You are willingly rejecting the clear teaching of the word of God and specifically, Paul. You don't like to hear that the Law of Moses is no longer authoritative to those Jews who used to be governed by it. Even though Jeremiah prophesied of a New covenant which, according to the author of Hebrews, is better than the Old, you somehow think that we can hang on to the Old - and still have the New also. But Jesus Himself said that "new wine must be put into new wineskins".

God told Peter, James, and John, on the Mount of Tranfiguration that they were to listen to His beloved Son, not Moses and not Elijah. It's clear that their new authority was Jesus, not the Law, and not the Prophets. But you don't want to hear that. Your loyalty to Judaism is suffocating you - keeping you in bondage, which is exactly what the Law does to people who won't let go of it. Jesus came to "redeem those who were under the Law", that they might receive the adoption as sons. Galatians 4:5
I can see from your last post that you are deceived into thinking that all Jews are the people of God. Paul says in Romans 9:6 "For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham's seed (descendants), ... it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise who are regarded as seed (descendants).
You also are mistaken when you say that we are to "look at the Torah out of genuine faith", rather than looking at Jesus and His teachings in faith. Jesus said to teach new disciples "all that I commanded you", not the Torah, not the Ten Commandments. Matthew 28:20
You continue to hang on to the anti-Je
wishness of the New Covenant. The Mosaic Covenant is eternal. The Old Testament Covenants are still in force with no expiration date. Your subtle antisemitism and erroneous misinterpretation of Scripture is glaringly ignorant. You forget that I am a Messianic Jew. I am loyal to Messianic Judaism not the 32 Baskin Robbins flavors of denominations of Christianity. Christianity was born out of Judaism, not the other way around. Furthermore, Messianic Judaism is not Christianity. Our customs, traditions and
Identity is different. We look at Scripture through a Jewish Hebraic ✡️ lens as it was written. Not a Gentile Christian lens with an anti Jewish flavor and agenda. The New Covenant is a modified version of the Old Covenant now with a new high priest Yeshua Hamashiach. The Bible is a Jewish book, not a Christian Gentile book. Yeshua was not a Christian, but an observant Jew. All the Biblical writers are Jews ✡️. Absolutely, no Christian Gentile writers. I wonder why that is. My guess is they couldn't be trusted to truly convey the truthfulness of God's Word to the world. We already see some poor translations of Scripture from so called Gentile Bible translators.
Shalom Rav
 
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You are willingly rejecting the clear teaching of the word of God and specifically, Paul. You don't like to hear that the Law of Moses is no longer authoritative to those Jews who used to be governed by it. Even though Jeremiah prophesied of a New covenant which, according to the author of Hebrews, is better than the Old, you somehow think that we can hang on to the Old - and still have the New also. But Jesus Himself said that "new wine must be put into new wineskins".

God told Peter, James, and John, on the Mount of Tranfiguration that they were to listen to His beloved Son, not Moses and not Elijah. It's clear that their new authority was Jesus, not the Law, and not the Prophets. But you don't want to hear that. Your loyalty to Judaism is suffocating you - keeping you in bondage, which is exactly what the Law does to people who won't let go of it. Jesus came to "redeem those who were under the Law", that they might receive the adoption as sons. Galatians 4:5
I can see from your last post that you are deceived into thinking that all Jews are the people of God. Paul says in Romans 9:6 "For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham's seed (descendants), ... it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise who are regarded as seed (descendants).
You also are mistaken when you say that we are to "look at the Torah out of genuine faith", rather than looking at Jesus and His teachings in faith. Jesus said to teach new disciples "all that I commanded you", not the Torah, not the Ten Commandments. Matthew 28:20
You need to read a book by Jeffrey Seif titled
Is Christ Really THE END of THE LAW?
Another Look at Telos in Romans 10:4
You can buy it on Amazon
Forward
"A Real Gem" Walter C. Kaiser Jr. ; President Emeritus; Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary

Shalom
 
All the Biblical writers are Jews ✡️. Absolutely, no Christian Gentile writers. I wonder why that is. My guess is they couldn't be trusted to truly convey the truthfulness of God's Word to the world. We already see some poor translations of Scripture from so called Gentile Bible translators.
Shalom Rav
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