brightfame52
Active Member
You dont have a leg to stand on
The Issue of Limited Atonement
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
synergy
Active Member
Your deliberate and ongoing redaction of 1 Pet 1:12, Rom 8:13, and Rom 10:8-13 proves without a doubt that you are intent on spewing out only heresies irregardless of what the.Bible says.
Not a problem. Sorry to hear about your computer scam. Unfortunately, I believe that given the rise of AI, such scams will become far more frequent and much harder to avoid.
synergy
Active Member
Salvation is possible only after the Cross and Pentecost. OT Saints received their salvation only after those events, just like everyone else.
@Jim
I will say this: I did say very clearly:
Not quite correct, yet I'll leave your saying above along, since we have gone over this many times.
I will say this: I did say very clearly:
A saint is any believer in God's word. Jim, believing in Jesus Christ is not a prerequisite to being a child of promise; believing is a blessing added to our sonship, some have never heard of Jesus Christ that shall inherit eternal life by God's election of grace. Even among God children who have the word of God, and have spent many years reading, studying the scriptures, their knowledge of the scriptures is all over the chart, yet many of them are his children.
But there is no indication that the OT saints, believers, were blessed with the indwelling Holy Spirit either.
And believing is not a blessing added to our sonship. Our sonship results from our believing.
DavidTree
Active Member
False doctrine and a very serious heresy.
Adjust your mind to the Mind of Christ = HE who Saved the OT prophet Isaiah and many other OT saints are they who believed the WORD that was GOD.
Isaiah 12:2
Behold, God is my salvation, I will trust and not be afraid; ‘For YAH, the LORD, is my strength and song; He also has become my salvation.’ ”
Jesus answered and said to them, “Are you not therefore mistaken, because you do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God? For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’?
He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living.
You are therefore greatly mistaken.”
@civic @Red Baker
The OT saints had to wait in Paradise until Christ died and shed His Atoning Blood.
brightfame52
Active Member
I suppose thats possible, but contrary to the norm set forth in scripture. For instance election usually results in believing the Truth
2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Faith is given to the elect to acknowledge the Truth Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
The purpose of the Ministry to the Body Eph 4:11-13
Your thoughts when you have a moment
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
We will all wait in Paradise until Christ returns. It is only after that and the judgment that any will proceed on to heaven.
The sacrifice of Christ on the cross was applied retroactively to all OT saints (Rom 5:12-21)
synergy
Active Member
First of all, do tell us how anyone can possibly be saved before the Cross and Pentecost ever happened?
In Isaiah 12:2, the “salvation” in view is covenantal, futuristic deliverance, not New-Covenant regeneration or indwelling of the Spirit. The context is Israel’s future restoration after judgment (Isa 11–12), where God saves His people by rescuing them from exile, oppression, and divine wrath, restoring them to covenant blessing and peace, something God brings to them externally (“the LORD is my strength and my song; He has become my salvation”), producing trust and joy, but it does not describe the inward realities later revealed in the gospel (new birth, sealing of the Spirit, union with Christ). In other words, Isaiah 12:2 celebrates YHWH as the faithful covenant Deliverer of Israel, a real and gracious "salvation", yet one that anticipates the fuller, internal, Spirit-indwelt salvation accomplished and revealed in Christ under the New Covenant.
brightfame52
Active Member
Was Abraham and righteous man unregenerate in the flesh ? Rom 4 3
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Gen 15:5-6
5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
Righteousness, i.e., Justification, is not regeneration. They are two entirely different and separate actions by God. That you do not know that is really sad.
brightfame52
Active Member
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Possibly so but this involved 2 humans, plus a third one or the first one with a voice change that spoofed the Police Department here. I ti s a long story, and not sure anyone here would want to hear it but if possible do not open any emails from people you know that you have not heard from in more then 6 or 7 months....
brightfame52
Active Member
synergy
Active Member
In OT times, OT Saints were legally justified through faith but not ontologically regenerated yet because the Cross nor Pentecost had not happened yet.
After the Cross, the OT Saints are now regenerated through the Cross and through the outpouring of the Holy Spirit (Pentecost).
brightfame52
Active Member
Abraham had Faith in Christ Jn 856
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
He saw Jesus day spiritually by Faith. The words for see and he saw are the greek word horaō :
horáō – properly, see, often with metaphorical meaning: "to see with the mind" (i.e. spiritually see), i.e. perceive (with inward spiritual perception)
This is the same word John used here Jn 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Abraham could see the kingdom of God, Jesus the King. This was a spiritual perception only a born again person can have.
Abraham had Faith which pleases God, and the unregenerate in the flesh cannot please God, doesn't matter ot or nt flesh is the flesh.
You guys are rejecting total depravity and total spiritual inability thats why you fight hard against regeneration in the OT times, and then claim OT Saints like Enoch pleased God while in a unregenerate condition in the flesh. Doesnt work.
Plaus Jn 1:12-13 tells us plainly there were people born of God during Jesus earthly Ministry b4 His Death and before pentecost. That overthrows yalls argument right there, b4 the Crucifixion it was still OT times. Jonh the baptist was an OT Prophet, and he was born of the Spirit , filled with the Spirit Lk 1 15
15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
Regeneration is not a matter of the flesh but rather of the spirit.
