The Issue of Limited Atonement

[brightfame52]

Jesus said, "Scripture cannot be broken.
There are NO GENTILES named, mentioned, or identified as being included in any of the three Hebrew covenants.
Thus, any teaching today that seeks to add Gentiles after the fact and after these covenants have been closed violates Jesus' word and breaks Scripture. It also teaches that Jesus did not only fulfill the Law but that He changed it by those who claim He added Gentiles after the covenants have been closed.

You are adding to Scripture:

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Revelations 22:18–19.

God's Word is eternal:

Psalm 119:89: Forever, O Lord, your word is firmly fixed in the heavens.

Psalm 119:160: The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous ordinances endures forever.

Isaiah 40:8: The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever.

When you come to passages of Scripture that seem to oppose each other it is suppose to garner more study, NOT allow your to ignore it if it contradicts your position. But tell me, you passage says it is ready to "vanish away." Does it give a date when this happened?

NO JEW would ever seek to circumcise any Gentile nor compel or instruct Gentiles to obey or teach the Law of Moses.
ALL JEWS KNOW the Law was given to the children of Israel and that there are no Gentiles included in the Law.
And you seem to overlook Jeremiah's prophecy that the New Covenant is between God and the House of Israel (ten northern kingdom tribes), and the House of Judah (two southern kingdom tribes.
We are NOW in the New Covenant era, and the New Covenant does not include Gentiles.

The Jerusalem Council recorded in Acts 15 concerns Hellenized mixed heritage Jews who grew up in Gentile lands heavily influenced by Greek culture. From the Assyrian Conquest and Exile (722 BC) of the ten northern kingdom tribes to Assyria, and later Babylon's conquest of Assyria and later, Judah in 586 BC, captured the remaining two tribes as well as take the Jewish residents in Assyria back to Babylon are 29-35 generations of Jews who grew up Gentile. They were uncircumcised when they became born-again by the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL - Joel) and there was the question if these individuals should be circumcised to be rejoined into the Abraham Covenant but the decision the apostles and elders (including elders of the Sanhedrin who were born again) reached was to compel them to obey four aspects of the Law of Moses:

29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. Acts 15:29.

For a time, Christianity was seen as a sect of Judaism. It was called The Way. These Jewish Christians enjoyed good company with the Jews and Judaizers as Acts 21 reveals:

17 And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly.
18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: Acts 21:17–20.

Saul, a rabbi, and Pharisee was welcomed by James (a Judaizer) and ALL the elders of the Sanhedrin and Saul was a Jewish Christian who also enjoyed good company with Jews and Jewish Christians. Saul went first into the synagogues wherever he traveled and taught Christians the Law of Moses. SO, TELL ME HOW THE LAW IS ABOLISHED IF THE GREAT SAUL THE APOSTLE TAUGHT THE LAW OF MOSES TO JEWS AND JEWISH CHRISTIANS?

21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:21–24.

There were some who said Saul taught Jews to FORSAKE MOSES, but they are nothing (verse 24)
"But that thou thyself ALSO walkest orderly and KEEPEST THE LAW "(verse 24.)

It is clear Saul joined in a Jewish vow, shaved their heads so that ALL MAY KNOW that you are under the Law, STILL.
Here is Saul practicing obedience to the Law:

26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them. Acts 21:26.

What is Saul doing obeying Moses? He still went into the Temple and observed purification rituals under the Law.

1 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.
2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)
3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day. Acts 22:1–3.

17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, Acts 22:17.

Jewish prayers, NOT prayers the way we speak and pray today. Rabbi's knew how to pray. They prayed the Psalms and other rabbinical prayers.

You believe the Law is abolished or vanished away? When did this happen because some twenty years after Jesus' ascension Saul still practived obedience to the Law of Moses:

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:14.

It is not me who is in error. NO JEW would ever seek to circumcise a non-Hebrew or command them to obey the Law. Doing so would cause riots among the Jews and Saul would not enjoy the respect the Judaizers and the Sanhedrin gave him.

True, Biblical Christianity in the New Covenant era was moored to the Law of Moses, and the Prophets.
When the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL (-Joel) arrived three thousand Jews were born-again and their love for God's Word went deeper and zealously upon Jews and Scripture above bears this out. But YOU want to contradict and oppose God in the things of God. The relationship of Jews to the Law of Moses took on a deep, abiding, love for God's Word. One thing that occurred to me when I became born-again was my love for God's Word went deep and I was zealous about the Word and Jesus. I was called a "Halleluya" and a "Jesus freak." The same happened to born-again Jews in the first century. To them the Law of Moses was the foundation of their Christianity. So, you cannot tell me the Law of Moses was "abolished" or "obsolete" or vanished away" when Jews adhered more lovingly to Moses and the Law.

The Mosaic Law in its National aspect with its ceremonies and it being a Covenant for them, the Nation of Israel was to obey, its abrogated, but the Moral Law of God aspect of the Law is abiding forever. Even believers as free from the law as a covenant and free from its penalty, are nevertheless under its moral law government, but with this difference, they know Christ has kept it for them morally and has paid the curse penalty they owed, and so obedience to the moral law is out of a sense of love and gratitude for what Christ has done for them, and not out of legal fear.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The Mosaic Law in its National aspect with its ceremonies and it being a Covenant for them, the Nation of Israel was to obey, its abrogated, but the Moral Law of God aspect of the Law is abiding forever.

All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
That's why salvation is OF THE LORD and by virtue of God's pleasure He chose to save. And He saved Israel. Only.
The New Covenant comes with "forgiveness" and declaration God will "remember their (Israel's) sin no more."
And this was done at the cross "It is finished."
Natural Olive tree Israel became spiritual Olive tree Israel at the cross of Jesus and activated when one became born-again by God's Spirit, a Spirit promised to only Israel according to the prophet Joel.
God's Word/Commands/Law is eternal and everlasting. God's Word goes out and it does not come back void but does what it was sent out to do. God's Law was given to the children of Israel and declares God's standard of behavior. The Law reveals who the Promised by Moses One is. Thus, according to Galatian 3:24 the Law is their schoolmaster to bring [us] to Christ that they may be justified by faith. It is also given to Israel for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness, so that the man of God is thoroughly furnished unto all good works. It is NOT "abolished" nor is it "obsolete," nor has it vanished away until it does what it was sent out to do and if anything the time of its "vanishing away" would most likely be after all is said and done, God's Chosen are with Christ and hidden, and all prophecy has been fulfilled and His Chosen people begin their eternal lives in Him.

Even believers as free from the law as a covenant and free from its penalty, are nevertheless under its moral law government, but with this difference, they know Christ has kept it for them morally and has paid the curse penalty they owed, and so obedience to the moral law is out of a sense of love and gratitude for what Christ has done for them, and not out of legal fear.

The Work of Christ was to fulfill God's Law and all its requirements given to Israel. As Israel's substitute Christ fulfilled the Law and yet it was the Law that killed Him. But it was also the entrance of Christ in the believer through which this substitute through resurrection God sees the believer joined to Christ and God declaring the believer "justified" as though the person saved is seen by God as also fulfilling the Law perfectly and obediently. Thus, this makes the Law eternal and everlasting through Christ who is our Mediator. When a person is born-again the Holy Spirit of Promise who is the Personification of the Law of God dwells in the believer and the person is seen by God as having obeyed the Law perfectly as Jesus di and the person is declared "Not Guilty! of transgressing God's Law and in this they are justified. Additionally, the Holy Spirit who dwells in the believer is the Law which God promised to put in their "inward parts" and "written on their hearts" so that they may live for God as His possession. The Law was at one time written on stone and guided Israel in their behavior towards each other and toward God. With the Holy Spirit dwelling within the believer, He leads and guides the person from withing and as part of the relationship between God and man and when they sin convicts the believer from within what was once done from without. From the moment of conversion, the believer is now being conformed daily into the image of Christ to fulfill their measure of faith in this world with a guarantee to live eternally in the next.

 

[brightfame52]

All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
That's why salvation is OF THE LORD and by virtue of God's pleasure He chose to save. And He saved Israel. Only.
The New Covenant comes with "forgiveness" and declaration God will "remember their (Israel's) sin no more."
And this was done at the cross "It is finished."
Natural Olive tree Israel became spiritual Olive tree Israel at the cross of Jesus and activated when one became born-again by God's Spirit, a Spirit promised to only Israel according to the prophet Joel.
God's Word/Commands/Law is eternal and everlasting. God's Word goes out and it does not come back void but does what it was sent out to do. God's Law was given to the children of Israel and declares God's standard of behavior. The Law reveals who the Promised by Moses One is. Thus, according to Galatian 3:24 the Law is their schoolmaster to bring [us] to Christ that they may be justified by faith. It is also given to Israel for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness, so that the man of God is thoroughly furnished unto all good works. It is NOT "abolished" nor is it "obsolete," nor has it vanished away until it does what it was sent out to do and if anything the time of its "vanishing away" would most likely be after all is said and done, God's Chosen are with Christ and hidden, and all prophecy has been fulfilled and His Chosen people begin their eternal lives in Him.

The Work of Christ was to fulfill God's Law and all its requirements given to Israel. As Israel's substitute Christ fulfilled the Law and yet it was the Law that killed Him. But it was also the entrance of Christ in the believer through which this substitute through resurrection God sees the believer joined to Christ and God declaring the believer "justified" as though the person saved is seen by God as also fulfilling the Law perfectly and obediently. Thus, this makes the Law eternal and everlasting through Christ who is our Mediator. When a person is born-again the Holy Spirit of Promise who is the Personification of the Law of God dwells in the believer and the person is seen by God as having obeyed the Law perfectly as Jesus di and the person is declared "Not Guilty! of transgressing God's Law and in this they are justified. Additionally, the Holy Spirit who dwells in the believer is the Law which God promised to put in their "inward parts" and "written on their hearts" so that they may live for God as His possession. The Law was at one time written on stone and guided Israel in their behavior towards each other and toward God. With the Holy Spirit dwelling within the believer, He leads and guides the person from withing and as part of the relationship between God and man and when they sin convicts the believer from within what was once done from without. From the moment of conversion, the believer is now being conformed daily into the image of Christ to fulfill their measure of faith in this world with a guarantee to live eternally in the next.

The Mosaic Law was a National Covenant only for primarily Abrahams redeemed seed from the house of egypt, which included Abrahams physical and spiritual seed. The National Covenant was primarily to preserve a nation so that Christ [spiritual seed] would come in the flesh to fulfill the promises of the Abrahamic covenant which was a outshoot of Gods promise of the coming seed of the woman Gen 3:15

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Now the Seed of the woman, the Christ, has came and fulfilled the Mosaic Law in all of its aspects, Moral, Ceremonial Judicial etc

In doing so He has established the New Covenant which is now primarily interested in Abrahams Spiritual Seed, the National Covenant has been abrogated, its vanished away. Abrahams Spiritual Seed are men and women who belong to Christ, ethnicity no factor,, they all will be called and experience spiritual circumcision as Abes spiritual seed and Christs spiritual seed. Its called the circumcision of Christ Col 2:11

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

The Spiritual seed of Abraham is promised a circumcised heart Deut 30:6

6 And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

This was premised o the Death of Christ and His redeeming work.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The Mosaic Law was a National Covenant only for primarily Abrahams redeemed seed from the house of egypt, which included Abrahams physical and spiritual seed.

It was a covenant of twelve Hebrew tribes. They were delivered OUT OF EGYPT. And it is according to what I read a natural covenant with spiritual possibilities. Those spiritual possibilities are the Law itself as type and shadow of the Holy Spirit which dwells in the believer and is that Law God promised to put in Israel's inward parts and write it in their hearts.

The National Covenant was primarily to preserve a nation so that Christ [spiritual seed] would come in the flesh to fulfill the promises of the Abrahamic covenant which was a outshoot of Gods promise of the coming seed of the woman Gen 3:15

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Now the Seed of the woman, the Christ, has came and fulfilled the Mosaic Law in all of its aspects, Moral, Ceremonial Judicial etc

In doing so He has established the New Covenant which is now primarily interested in Abrahams Spiritual Seed, the National Covenant has been abrogated, its vanished away. Abrahams Spiritual Seed are men and women who belong to Christ, ethnicity no factor,, they all will be called and experience spiritual circumcision as Abes spiritual seed and Christs spiritual seed. Its called the circumcision of Christ Col 2:11

No, it is still a natural New Covenant and since there is no salvation mechanism by which God is able to forgive and remember Israel's sin no more, we have to go back to the Mosaic Covenant which does have a mechanism for atonement of the Hebrew people. Thus, the New Covenant is only the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Christ. The Law of Moses has the mechanism for salvation, for forgiveness, and instead of not remembering Israel's sin for only one year, He now remembers their sin no more.

None of Israel's covenants are abrogated. They have been received of Christ and God's Word does not come with an expiration date but is eternal. To claim the Law of Moses or the Abraham Covenant's are abrogated would mean that we no longer have to obey God's Command to not have other gods before us, it's ok to kill, steal, bear false witness - you know, those things so-called Christians still do today? Besides this, if the Law is abrogated then so is the Holy Spirit because He is the Law which God promised to put in the inward parts of the Hose of Israel and Judah. And I find it wrong for one people to tell another people what that people are to do in life. It is the height of arrogance for a presumed Gentile to tell the Hebrew people that their relationship with God is abrogated and ceases to be. That's like Muslims telling Americans their Constitution is abrogated and no longer in force.

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

The Spiritual seed of Abraham is promised a circumcised heart Deut 30:6

6 And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

This was premised o the Death of Christ and His redeeming work.

Yes, and now through the putting of God's Law in Israel's inward parts their relationship to the Law is changed. Instead of commanding God's people from without through stone, God commands His people from within from the Law written on their fleshly tables of their hearts. Israel is the recipient of God's covenants so I think we should stop trying to tell them what they can and cannot do with their relationship with the God of Abraham. It's inheritance theft for one and second, being outside of their covenants with God I don't think you're in any equal standing with them to tell them how they should live before their God.
Keep an eye on your house and leave Israel to deal with theirs.

In other words, mind your own business.

 

[brightfame52]

It was a covenant of twelve Hebrew tribes. They were delivered OUT OF EGYPT. And it is according to what I read a natural covenant with spiritual possibilities. Those spiritual possibilities are the Law itself as type and shadow of the Holy Spirit which dwells in the believer and is that Law God promised to put in Israel's inward parts and write it in their hearts.

No, it is still a natural New Covenant and since there is no salvation mechanism by which God is able to forgive and remember Israel's sin no more, we have to go back to the Mosaic Covenant which does have a mechanism for atonement of the Hebrew people. Thus, the New Covenant is only the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Christ. The Law of Moses has the mechanism for salvation, for forgiveness, and instead of not remembering Israel's sin for only one year, He now remembers their sin no more.

None of Israel's covenants are abrogated. They have been received of Christ and God's Word does not come with an expiration date but is eternal. To claim the Law of Moses or the Abraham Covenant's are abrogated would mean that we no longer have to obey God's Command to not have other gods before us, it's ok to kill, steal, bear false witness - you know, those things so-called Christians still do today? Besides this, if the Law is abrogated then so is the Holy Spirit because He is the Law which God promised to put in the inward parts of the Hose of Israel and Judah. And I find it wrong for one people to tell another people what that people are to do in life. It is the height of arrogance for a presumed Gentile to tell the Hebrew people that their relationship with God is abrogated and ceases to be. That's like Muslims telling Americans their Constitution is abrogated and no longer in force.

Yes, and now through the putting of God's Law in Israel's inward parts their relationship to the Law is changed. Instead of commanding God's people from without through stone, God commands His people from within from the Law written on their fleshly tables of their hearts. Israel is the recipient of God's covenants so I think we should stop trying to tell them what they can and cannot do with their relationship with the God of Abraham. It's inheritance theft for one and second, being outside of their covenants with God I don't think you're in any equal standing with them to tell them how they should live before their God.
Keep an eye on your house and leave Israel to deal with theirs.

In other words, mind your own business.

No more Mosaic covenant we under the new covenant which is the fulfillment of the abrahamic covenant which was a outshooting of the everlasting covenant

 

[jeremiah1five]

No more Mosaic covenant we under the new covenant which is the fulfillment of the abrahamic covenant which was a outshooting of the everlasting covenant

And where does it say the New Covenant is the fulfillment of the Abraham Covenant, or are you making things up?
The Abraham Covenant doesn't have any mechanism by which God forgives except it does with the Mosaic Covenant through the Ceremonial Laws and animal sacrifice.
So, you are wrong on this point. The New Covenant is NOT the fulfillment of the Abraham Covenant.
But it is Christ fulfilling the Mosaic Covenant and with the last Passover, which Jesus offered Himself under the Mosaic Covenant for the sins of the children of Israel, He initiated the New Covenant in His body and blood as recorded in the gospels.

 

[brightfame52]

And where does it say the New Covenant is the fulfillment of the Abraham Covenant, or are you making things up?
The Abraham Covenant doesn't have any mechanism by which God forgives except it does with the Mosaic Covenant through the Ceremonial Laws and animal sacrifice.
So, you are wrong on this point. The New Covenant is NOT the fulfillment of the Abraham Covenant.
But it is Christ fulfilling the Mosaic Covenant and with the last Passover, which Jesus offered Himself under the Mosaic Covenant for the sins of the children of Israel, He initiated the New Covenant in His body and blood as recorded in the gospels.

The Abrahamic covenant provides forgiveness, its through Christ, forgiveness of sins is by Christ not the provision of the law of moses. When it talks about the blessing of Abraham Gal 3:14 forgiveness is included, the Abrahamic covenant is a mercy Lk 1:72-77

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

76 ;And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

 

[jeremiah1five]

The Abrahamic covenant provides forgiveness, its through Christ, forgiveness of sins is by Christ not the provision of the law of moses. When it talks about the blessing of Abraham Gal 3:14 forgiveness is included, the Abrahamic covenant is a mercy Lk 1:72-77

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

76 ;And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Wishful thinking. Adding to the Bible without Scripture support.
Which of the fathers was told by God you are forgiven?
The Abraham Covenant says and does nothing about forgiveness. Where id the animal sacrifice in the Abraham Covenant? Where does it say there's a high priest behind it all? Where's the Holy of Holies in the Abraham Covenant?
You're out of your Vulcan mind.