The Hypostatic Union (The Bane of Unitarianism).

[praise_yeshua]

Dear Unitarians,

The Hypostatic Union is a complex doctrine that attempts to reconcile the Eternal Nature of Jesus Christ within the context of the Incarnation/become flesh. Very few people actually understand the entirety of the doctrine. Dealing in/with the Hypostatic Union requires faith and experience. On the surface, the Hypostatic Union appears paradoxical. However, many of these seemingly "paradoxical" issues can be understood and reconciled by believing the Scriptures and placing faith in Jesus Christ.

It is essential that we start at the beginning/foundation. It is very poor methodology to begin at the end with a conclusion and then proceed to work your way backwards to try and prove your premise.

Scripture.....

1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Can we all agree that Jesus Christ is the foundation?

 

[praise_yeshua]

No takers?
@Runningman

1 Cor 3:11 explicitly states that there is no other foundation than Jesus Christ, then what is the controversy?

Next we should deal with the Preeminent/Servant nature of the Hypostatic Union.

 

[Runningman]

No takers?
@Runningman

1 Cor 3:11 explicitly states that there is no other foundation than Jesus Christ, then what is the controversy?

Next we should deal with the Preeminent/Servant nature of the Hypostatic Union.

This debunks the hypostatic union.

According to Scripture, though Jesus is God's servant and the one God sent (John 13:16, John 17:3), God isn't served by human hands.

Jesus stated in Matthew 11:25, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth..."

In Acts 17:24–25, Paul said, "The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else."

Thus concluding that God, the Lord of heaven and earth, and Creator, is not served by human hands.

The post-resurrected Jesus lifted up his human hands in Luke 24:50 and said in Matthew 28:18, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

This confirms that since Jesus has human hands, he is not God, nor was he required by God to make His ends meet. This also confirms that Jesus is not the Lord of heaven and earth, despite being given authority in heaven and on earth.

The post-resurrected Jesus was taken to heaven, where he kept his human body as a man in heaven, immortal, a man mediating between God and men, while sitting at the right hand of God with his human hands.

This thread will become the bane of Trinitarianism.

Therefore Jesus is not God and man.

 

[praise_yeshua]

This debunks the hypostatic union.

According to Scripture, though Jesus is God's servant and the one God sent (John 13:16, John 17:3), God isn't served by human hands.

Jesus stated in Matthew 11:25, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth..."

1. The Father praised the Son. As always. Your logic is flawed.

In Acts 17:24–25, Paul said, "The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else.""


Thus concluding that God, the Lord of heaven and earth, and Creator, is not served by human hands.

2. Then you're not serving the Father. What a profound mistake you've made. Rightfully recognize your mistakes. Your comment is self defeating. You quoted a verse that simply teaches that God needs nothing. That includes you.

Lam 3:41 Let us lift up our heart with our hands unto God in the heavens.

God lives in the human heart. Not what we construct with our hands. The same is said by Stephen.

Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?

Rev_21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

For a Christian, Our body is called a TEMPLE many time throughout Scriptures. A temple not made with hands....

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

You don't know much of anything about Christian theology. You obviously were never raised in Christianity. You should study more before you make such simple mistakes. You need to understand the entirety of the Scriptures before you pretend what you read actually means that man can't serve God because he is a man. This is utterly preposterous. As rightfully witnessed by myself. You're lost in Islamic teachings. You've brought your Islamic theology into a Christian discussion. Stop pretending you're a Christian. You're a descendent of apostate men. Abandon their ignorance and embrace Jesus Christ. You're not the only one I've meet still "stuck in Islam while trying to claim you're a Christian. You're not a Christian.

The post-resurrected Jesus lifted up his human hands in Luke 24:50 and said in Matthew 28:18, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

This confirms that since Jesus has human hands, he is not God, nor was he required by God to make His ends meet. This also confirms that Jesus is not the Lord of heaven and earth, despite being given authority in heaven and on earth.

3. Just how does someone have authority and yet not have authority? Care to explain?

The post-resurrected Jesus was taken to heaven, where he kept his human body as a man in heaven, immortal, a man mediating between God and men, while sitting at the right hand of God with his human hands.

This thread will become the bane of Trinitarianism.

Therefore Jesus is not God and man.

4. Will you ascend to heaven with you human body?

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Now that I dealt with your "misdirection".

Can you answer unequivocally that Jesus is your foundation or not?

 

[Runningman]

1. The Father praised the Son. As always. Your logic is flawed.

Your logic fails. Christians are also praised by the Father. 1 Corinthians 4:5 "At that time each will receive their praise from God. "

2. Then you're not serving the Father. What a profound mistake you've made. Rightfully recognize your mistakes. Your comment is self defeating. You quoted a verse that simply teaches that God needs nothing. That includes you.

Then you have an idol, a man who is not God. God is not served by human hands therefore there is no such thing as a hypostatic union. For the hypostatic union to co-exist with the fact that God is not served by human hands, then God becoming a man is self-defeating and contradiction because it required that God required the use of human hands to serve Him despite Acts 17:24–25 saying He is not served by human hands. Therefore, God cannot help Him according to your extremely bad non-Christian doctrines; it's non-sense of the highest degree.

Lam 3:41 Let us lift up our heart with our hands unto God in the heavens.

God lives in the human heart. Not what we construct with our hands.

The heart isn't literally the heart in this context. God isn't served by human organs either for that matter. Creations like Jesus cannot do anything to assist Lord God Almighty.

The same is said by Stephen.

Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?

Rev_21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

For a Christian, Our body is called a TEMPLE many time throughout Scriptures. A temple not made with hands....

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

You don't know much of anything about Christian theology. You obviously were never raised in Christianity. You should study more before you make such simple mistakes. You need to understand the entirety of the Scriptures before you pretend what you read actually means that man can't serve God because he is a man. This is utterly preposterous. As rightfully witnessed by myself. You're lost in Islamic teachings. You've brought your Islamic theology into a Christian discussion. Stop pretending you're a Christian. You're a descendent of apostate men. Abandon their ignorance and embrace Jesus Christ. You're not the only one I've meet still "stuck in Islam while trying to claim you're a Christian. You're not a Christian.

The hypostatic union doctrine describes Jesus Christ as both fully human and fully God, united in one person. By the very fact that God is not served by human hands defeats the purpose of the hypostatic union doctrine.

For starters, Paul was perfectly clear that God is not served by human hands, but Jesus and all of his disciples had human hands. Therefore, when people served Jesus with their human hands they were not serving God.

Furthermore, Jesus taught the disciples that when they worship they are to Father the Father in spirit and truth in John 4:23-24, saying "Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.” Proving that the kind of human-hands-bowing-down to that Jesus received was not the kind of worship fit for God. Jesus instructed anyone to worship him in spirit and truth like how he did for the Father.

This doctrine about the hypostatic union that you thought was your shoe-in for the deity of Jesus is going to go no where for you here because you have a big wall of scripture in your way. Also, you clearly are not a Christian since it has not been proven that you promote the sin of idolatry by telling people to worship a man with human hands when God doesn't have human hands.

3. Just how does someone have authority and yet not have authority? Care to explain?

There's a hierarchy in the kingdom of heaven. Trinitarians believe that Jesus is God so they take it way too far. Then verses like Matthew 11:25 and Acts 17:24,25 come along and prove that Jesus isn't the Lord of heaven and earth. Yes, Jesus is absolutely Lord, but not of heaven and earth. He is the Lord of the church in heaven and earth, high priest, and mediator between God and men and is still a man right now. Not God.

Acts 2 (NIV)
36“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

Ephesians 1 (NIV)
22And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,

1 Timothy 2 (NIV)
5For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

4. Will you ascend to heaven with you human body?

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

It's possible. It happened to Jesus and it can happen to others.

2 Cor. 12 (NIV)
2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.

1 Thess. 4 (NIV)
17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Now that I dealt with your "misdirection".

What was a misdirection?

Can you answer unequivocally that Jesus is your foundation or not?

Jesus is indeed the chief cornerstone that God YHWH, the Only Sovereign Lord, gave us. I believe that for sure. That proves that since Jesus is the foundation that he is not God.

Isaiah 28
16So this is what the Sovereign Lord says:
“See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone,
a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation;
the one who relies on it
will never be stricken with panic.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Jesus is indeed the chief cornerstone that God YHWH, the Only Sovereign Lord, gave us. I believe that for sure. That proves that since Jesus is the foundation that he is not God.

Isaiah 28
16So this is what the Sovereign Lord says:
“See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone,
a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation;
the one who relies on it
will never be stricken with panic.

Jesus is both described as the chief cornerstone and foundation. A cornerstone isn't a full foundation. These are two metaphorical references that vary from one another yet describe the same principle. You interchangeably used them without any thought to your own presentation of such.

It is absolutely buffoonish what you're doing. So much so that I'm done with it. Claim victory and rejoice.

 

[Runningman]

Jesus is both described as the chief cornerstone and foundation. A cornerstone isn't a full foundation. These are two metaphorical references that vary from one another yet describe the same principle. You interchangeably used them without any thought to your own presentation of such.

It is absolutely buffoonish what you're doing. So much so that I'm done with it. Claim victory and rejoice.

This post is incompetent and unchristian. The Sovereign Lord laid the cornerstone, but isn’t the cornerstone. The cornerstone is the foundation, not the one who laid himself. All you have left are head in the sand denials of scripture. Down goes the hydrostatic union and we’re only on page one.

This thread will not age well for Trinitarianism. Next time you pick a fight with Scripture, bring your A game. This was too easy.

 

[praise_yeshua]

This post is incompetent and unchristian. The Sovereign Lord laid the cornerstone, but isn’t the cornerstone. The cornerstone is the foundation, not the one who laid himself. All you have left are head in the sand denials of scripture. Down goes the hydrostatic union and we’re only on page one.

This thread will not age well for Trinitarianism. Next time you pick a fight with Scripture, bring your A game. This was too easy.

You're not discussing the Hypostatic Union at all. You're simply rejecting any sense of common communication. I seriously believe you have a learning disability. It is maddening to watch you claim that foundation and cornerstone are the same thing while you don't allow anyone else to claim that two "things" can be the same "whole".

Your judgement represents nothing of significance. Your words claiming Jesus Christ is an idol will come back to haunt you. Have it your way.

 

[Obadiah]

what's the metaphor there for?

metaphor a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable:

What does it mean that Jesus Christ is the cornerstone?​

Here is another metaphor about Jesus.
John 10:9 I am the gate. If anyone enters through Me, he will be saved. He will come in and go out and find pasture.

Jesus and Metaphors​

John 6:35: "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry."
John 8:12: "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
John 10:11: "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep."
John 15:5 "I am the true vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit."

When Jesus made these statements about himself, he tapped into the particular power of metaphors. He compared himself to bread, to a shepherd, to light, to a vine because such likeness allowed him to say complex things in a fairly simple manner. Paul Ricouer has noted that metaphors have a "surplus of meaning." They don't just say one thing that can be put into other words; instead, they offer a kind of overflow of additional suggestions and nuances. You haven't completely understood a metaphor by saying that it can be substituted for one statement and one statement only.

For example, when Jesus told his disciples that he was a vine and that they were branches, he was making more than one simple point. A vine and its branches implies an organic relationship, one that changes and grows. Such a metaphor tells us that the disciples' life is not static. It also implies a sense of connectedness, even a sense of extension. In this manner, Jesus' disciples do not do works of their own power; instead, they must receive strength and ability from the source. The metaphor also suggests an extension of appearance: the vine and its branches are one, until a branch is cut off. Disciples must share in the public reputation of Jesus. What would happen if we tried to reduce Jesus' meaning to just one of these elements? Which would you choose? And how much would be lost by reducing it to that sense only?

In a way, metaphors require "thick description". They ask us to take the time to unpack all the subtle possibilities they offer. What the speaker says in a moment, may take us a number of occasions to explore. They are little "texts in miniature" (to quote Ricouer again), and like texts, they must be studied and explicated over time to be fully understood. In this sense, metaphors remind us that God's truth is something we live with and continue to explore as we grow. Likewise, they remind us that it takes time and sensitivity to truly understand what someone has said to us.
DBU

 

[Selah]

Dear Unitarians,

The Hypostatic Union is a complex doctrine that attempts to reconcile the Eternal Nature of Jesus Christ within the context of the Incarnation/become flesh. Very few people actually understand the entirety of the doctrine. Dealing in/with the Hypostatic Union requires faith and experience. On the surface, the Hypostatic Union appears paradoxical. However, many of these seemingly "paradoxical" issues can be understood and reconciled by believing the Scriptures and placing faith in Jesus Christ.

It is essential that we start at the beginning/foundation. It is very poor methodology to begin at the end with a conclusion and then proceed to work your way backwards to try and prove your premise.

Scripture.....

1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Can we all agree that Jesus Christ is the foundation?

Indeed, the only everlasting foundation upon which we can build our spiritual eternal home is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ Himself is the cornerstone of that house.

selah

 

[Studyman]

Indeed, the only everlasting foundation upon which we can build our spiritual eternal home is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ Himself is the cornerstone of that house.

selah

Indeed, HE is the only way to the Kingdom of His Father. The only Advocate between the One True God and me.


1 Peter 1: 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Amen.