The Hypostatic Union- the 2 Natures in Christ

[synergy]

I agree. It would be disrespectful....
Its your assumption that keeps distorting my words into something I did not say.

I'm not assuming anything when I tell you.that we "bond around" the Bible. That's a fact whether you like it or not. So I'm not distorting anything.

I have patience. But, I might have to put you back on Ignore again...

If that's what you always fall back on when reality doesn't fit your mythical beliefs then that speaks volumes. Sticking your head in the sand will not make reality go away.

Its been: "distort what was said, and then attack the distortion. "

I did not distort anything when I told you that we "bond around" the Bible. Thats a fact. Actually, you've done enough distorting of the Bible for the both of us. Deal with the truth of the Bible and stop attacking the messenger. Is that possible for you?

 

[Complete]

Not saying you're right or wrong, but is the term "prison" here the appropriate term in the respond used? for example Isaiah 42:6 "I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;" Isaiah 42:7 "To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house."

so 101G question, is this "this prison spoken here, is this of the MIND, .... (Lack of Knowledge?), "IGNORANCE", read that verse again and and apply what 101G said. 101G will appreciate your comments.

stay blessed in the Lord.

101G.

'For Christ also hath once suffered for sins,
the just for the unjust,
that He might bring us to God,
being put to death in the flesh,
but quickened by the Spirit:
By which also He went and preached
unto the spirits (spiritual beings) in prison; (G5438)
Which sometime were disobedient,
when once the longsuffering of God waited
in the days of Noah,
while the ark was a preparing,
wherein few, that is, eight souls
were saved by water.
(1Pe 3:18-20)

Hello @101G,

My reason for entering the verses above, in the reply you are referring to, was in relation to the use of the words, 'eight souls were saved' i.e., six 'persons'), in order to illustrate the fact that the soul is the combination of body and spirit (or the breath of life), and not a separate entity.

* In response to the word 'prison' in 1 Peter 3:19 (above), You have quoted from Isaiah 42:6-7, which prophetically refers to the Messiah's activities:-

'I the LORD have called thee in righteousness,
and will hold thine hand,
and will keep thee,
and give thee for a covenant of the people,
for a light of the Gentiles;
To open the blind eyes,
to bring out the prisoners from the prison,
and them that sit in darkness
out of the prison house.'
(Isa 42:6-7)

You suggest that perhaps the word 'prison', in 1 Peter 3:19, is not contextually appropriate. I believe it is, for those described in Peter and Jude as 'disobedient' in the days of Noah, who left their 'first estate' for which they were created, to engage in an activity for which they were not intended, and thereby corrupting mankind genetically, these are contained or imprisoned awaiting judgement.

Whereas the use of the word 'prison' in Isaiah 42:6-7 (above) I believe to be figurative, referring to those who are spiritually blind and imprisoned by sin. They are described as 'them that sit in darkness', *'sitting' being a permanent condition in which one is placed. A condition that only the Saviour can deliver them from.

So in answer to your question, @101G, I believe the word 'prison' is appropriate in both cases, but in 1 Peter the imprisonment is not figurative, whereas in Isaiah it is, being a spiritual condition brought about by sin entering and death by sin, which only the death and resurrection of Christ, believed, received and applied can deliver from.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Note:- * 'sit in darkness' - being a permanent condition in which one is placed. (ref:- 'Figures Of Speech Used In The Bible' by E.W. Bullinger)

 

[Complete]

Only a physicalist or materialist would assert the brain is the source of consciousness.

Rather we see the physical brain as facilitating and correlating with consciousness.

Hello @dizerner,

I don't understand.

 

[Rockson]

There is a school of thought manifested here that is......... ....................

I'll attempt to fill in your blank. Wanting to see Biblical verification.

God brought me here to become aware of it.

And understand you need to provide it.

I find it interesting that some are so dedicated to such a way of thinking....

I seek to be and I'm sure many others here as well. Just provide actual biblical verification or what you think is biblical verification. But don't just cut and paste biblical words and dream up a strange unusual way they can be used.

 

[synergy]

.So in answer to your question, @101G, I believe the word 'prison' is appropriate in both cases, but in 1 Peter the imprisonment is not figurative, whereas in Isaiah it is, being a spiritual condition brought about by sin entering and death by sin, which only the death and resurrection of Christ, believed, received and applied can deliver from.

Correct. 1 Pet 3:18-20 describes the descent of the Word of God (Christ) into the very heart of Hades (the Prison) where He crippled it by the sheer fact that He is God.

Why was that necessary? That's because even though Individual sins are forgiven at the Cross, man was still under the curse of death. Death needed a different solution and God devised one where the Word of God would descend into the very heart of Hades and cripple it by the sheer fact that He is God. Death naively swallowed the Word who in turn crushed it, liberating those under its imprisonment.

 

[Complete]

There is a semantic range to soul, a more extended usage of the part for the whole.

They call that a "metonymy."

Hello @dizerner,

'Figures Of Speech Found In The Bible'
'Synecdoche of the Part is when a part is put for the whole. The connection between the part and the whole is closer also than that between the species and the genus; inasmuch as the part is actually a member of the whole, and not merely a species or specimen of it. In Synecdoche of the Part, one part or member is put for, and includes, every part or member:-
i. An integral part of man (individually) is put for the whole man.

1. The Soul (nephesh, and psyche) is put for the whole person.​

 

[Diserner]

yeaaaa good student they can overlap

 

[Complete]

Correct. 1 Pet 3:18-20 describes the descent of the Word of God (Christ) into the very heart of Hades (the Prison) where He crippled it by the sheer fact that He is God.

Why was that necessary? That's because even though Individual sins are forgiven at the Cross, man was still under the curse of death. Death needed a different solution and God devised one where the Word of God would descend into the very heart of Hades and cripple it by the sheer fact that He is God. Death naively swallowed the Word who in turn crushed it, liberating those under its imprisonment.

Hello @synergy,

With respect, where in Scripture are we told this?

 

[Diserner]

Hello @synergy,

With respect, where in Scripture are we told this?

It's in the NBE translation, I checked.

The "No Bible Ever," it gets quoted a lot on here.

Sin & death are always linked in Scripture.

 

[synergy]

Hello @synergy,

With respect, where in Scripture are we told this?

I don't have the full details in front of me but Death entered the scene in Genesis after God decreed it as a consequence of Adam's sins. The Bible deemed death as the last enemy which Jesus crippled when He descended into Hades and broke through it with his glorious Resurrection. You correctly said that 1 Pet 3:18-20 is not figurative. Death will eventually be totally disposed of in the future as recorded in Revelation. Here's a better organized summation of that:

Why (and How) to Preach Christ’s Descent to the Dead

Christ’s descent to the dead, rather than a doctrine that confuses or misleads, is a beautiful, hopeful, celebratory aspect of Christian theology.

www.google.com

It's in the NBE translation, I checked.
The "No Bible Ever," it gets quoted a lot on here.
Sin & death are always linked in Scripture.

You can now dispense with your myths.

 

[Complete]

'And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.'
(Gen 2:7)

Hello @dizerner,

So, in the light of what you have pointed out regarding 'Synecdoche of the Part' in regard to 'soul', how am I to understand Genesis 2:7, in regard to '... man became a living soul'?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Complete]

I don't have the full details in front of me but Death entered the scene in Genesis after God decreed it as a consequence of Adam's sins. The Bible deemed death as the last enemy which Jesus crippled when He descended into Hades and broke through it with his glorious Resurrection. You correctly said that 1 Pet 3:18-20 is not figurative. Death will eventually be totally disposed of in the future as recorded in Revelation. Here's a better organized summation of that:

Why (and How) to Preach Christ’s Descent to the Dead

Christ’s descent to the dead, rather than a doctrine that confuses or misleads, is a beautiful, hopeful, celebratory aspect of Christian theology.

www.google.com

You can now dispense with your myths.

Hello @synergy,

I thank you for the trouble you took to respond and to make reference to, and give the link to the study you have provided, but I do not feel happy to expose myself to it's contents. For 1 Peter 3:18-20 gives an adequate account of what the Lord did on that occasion, and I would prefer not to imbibe the understanding of another.

I mean you no offense,
Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[synergy]

Hello @synergy,

I thank you for the trouble you took to respond and to make reference to, and give the link to the study you have provided, but I do not feel happy to expose myself to it's contents. For 1 Peter 3:18-20 gives an adequate account of what the Lord did on that occasion, and I would prefer not to imbibe the understanding of another.

I mean you no offense,
Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris

You are absolutely free to believe what you want. I take no offense to the fact that God has granted us all a free will.

All I'm asking is if you could tell me which passage in the link does not line up with Jesus descending into Hades with the end result being His Resurrection. And in what way is 1 Pet 3:18-20 is not figurative to you, which I agree with. .

 

[civic]

I know what you are saying. I agree. But you keep thinking He only added His second nature at a later date in time. The Word was with and is God. Two natures.

Thats not what John 1:1 means. That is nowhere found in that passage. Not until John 1:14 do we see the Word who was God take on a second nature.

hope this helps!!!

 

[Diserner]

So, in the light of what you have pointed out regarding 'Synecdoche of the Part' in regard to 'soul', how am I to understand Genesis 2:7, in regard to '... man became a living soul'?

I think a good way to look at it is to see it as implying the soul is a unifying, essential or important part.

 

[civic]

I'll attempt to fill in your blank. Wanting to see Biblical verification.

And understand you need to provide it.

I seek to be and I'm sure many others here as well. Just provide actual biblical verification or what you think is biblical verification. But don't just cut and paste biblical words and dream up a strange unusual way they can be used.

Amen !

 

[Johann]

it was the 3rd mp3 about 2/3 in.

i aint puttin more work in that for a false teacher sorry.

You are talking through your left nostril-and on ignore you go.

ONE GOD, TWO NATURES - Part 1
A LOOK AT THE DIETY OF CHRIST
“In him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
- Colossians 2:9
1. The Importance of this Issue
a. Some seek for new things Acts 17:18-21; others disparage heritage Acts 24:14
b. It affects our knowledge of God: what kind of God is he?
c. It affects our perspective of Jesus: which Jesus is he? - 2 Cor 11:4
d. It affects the preaching of the cross: was it an example, a fraud, or a payment?
e. Christ could only die if he was man, he could only die for our sins if he was God.
f. It affects the grace life: what is your position, what is the mind of Christ.
2. The Nature of God
a. Nature ~def. the essence, qualities of a thing that make it what it is
b. Qualities: Eternal, immutable Mal 3:6, Jam 1:17, omnipresent 1 Kings 8:27, Psa 139:7-
12; -potent Exo 6:3, -science Isa 46:10, holy, true, love, life
c. Actions: creator, preserver, redeemer, miraculous, judge
d. It is against God’s nature to be or do anything less.
3. The Three in One God
a. The Biblical doctrine of God: He is one; He exists in three persons - 1 John 5:7
b. Wrong views of the Godhead
i. Modalism (Oneness) = One God wearing three masks
ii. Arianism = Jesus is created by God and is a lesser god (JW’s)
iii. Partialism = The three persons are part of God, but not fully God
iv. Unitarianism = There is one God and one person. (Jesus is not it)
4. Jesus’ Divine Nature
a. Jesus was a man, he was also God. We know this by his divine attributes.
b. Eternal: John 8:58; Immutable: Heb 13:8; Omni: Rev 1:8; Joh 21:17, Mat 18:20
c. Life: John 1:4, 11:25; Truth 14:6; Holy - Luke 1:23, Heb 7:26; Love 1 John 3:16
d. Creator of all things Col 1:16, Preserver Heb 1:3, Col 1:17; Redeemer Gal 4:5
e. If at once God always God: never less, not ceasing, adopting, or diminishing.
5. Why Jesus Needed to Be God
a. Without being God is death was no greater than the greatest man.
b. His resurrection could not happen without deity: Joh 10:17-18, 20:27+
c. His atonement is not eternal without the eternal quality of God – Heb 7:23-27
d. His payment was not the quality needed if he was not God: 2 Cor 5:19, Rom 5:9
e. To be exalted above all things and worshipped – Phil 2:9-10, Col 2:10
f. To fill up all in all, and for all things to be in Him – Eph 1:10, 20-23
g. To be a mediator between God and Man – 1 Tim 2:5

 

[Diserner]

You are talking through your left nostril-and on ignore you go.

Romans 14 the weaker brother.

Much love goes out your way.

 

[Diserner]

Why (and How) to Preach Christ’s Descent to the Dead

Christ’s descent to the dead, rather than a doctrine that confuses or misleads, is a beautiful, hopeful, celebratory aspect of Christian theology.

www.google.com

Decent article, more or less agree with the idea of it.

 

[synergy]

I think a good way to look at it is to see it as implying the soul is a unifying, essential or important part.

I agree that the soul is a unifying part. I say that because I believe that the human spirit is the deepest part of our soul, the spiritual eye of our soul. The human spirit is where we admit God into our heart and is part of our soul.

CC: @Complete