The Grace of God : Is the Cross of Christ

[Doug Brents]

Do you know about type and shadow?
The Law of God is type and shadow of the Holy Spirit. It is HE God promised Israel to put in THEIR inward parts. Now, instead of the Law written in stone and leading and guiding Israel from without, the Holy Spirit leads and guides the Jewish Christian from within. The kingdom of God is within you.

I agree with everything you said right up until you put the "Jewish" label on it. There is no such thing as a Jewish Christian, or a Gentile Christian; there is only Christian or non-Christian. Rom 8:14-17, Gal 3:29, 4:7, Titus 3:7, and 1 Pet 1:3-5 all say that those who trust in Jesus, the Christ and Messiah, are heirs of the promise made to Abraham and the Covenant made in Christ. Then we come to Eph 3:6, which specifically and clearly says that the Gentiles are also included in the promise, and are also heirs with the Jews in Christ.

 

[Behold]

You are correct that the water would have killed them if they had not been in the Ark.
But that does not change what Scripture says.

The issue isn't the Scripture, the issue is that if you read the bible like its a magazine, you are going to be very confused.
See, the bible is "Spiritually discerned"..
That's completely different then reading it, to try to figure it out.
This is why symbolic verse, confuse people....as they are reading them as if its a cereal box.

Mark 16:16 says that salvation is received through belief and baptism.

He that BELIEVES, shall be saved.

He that BELIEVES not, shall be damned.

Because, God accepts our FAITH, not our WATER, to give us The redemption that is found in Jesus.

Baptism is VERY different from communion.

There are 2 Baptisms, at least.

One is this one... "One Lord, one Faith one Baptism", and that one isn't water.

Its this... "Spiritual Baptism".... or "by my SPIRIT sayeth the Lord".
Now you can continue to deny this and preach that water saves...., as the "water cults" teach, but that is heresy.

 

[Doug Brents]

The issue isn't the Scripture, the issue is that if you read the bible like its a magazine, you are going to be very confused.
See, the bible is "Spiritually discerned"..
That's completely different then reading it, to try to figure it out.
This is why symbolic verse, confuse people....as they are reading them as if its a cereal box.

And there are many who are listening to the wrong spirit when they read Scripture. They listen to Satan's lie that you can go right up to the threshold but not enter into Christ and still be united with Him.

He that BELIEVES, shall be saved.

That is not what Mark 16:16 says. I says:
He who believes AND IS BAPTIZED will be saved.

He that BELIEVES not, shall be damned.

It does not matter that you are baptized if you don't believe, that would only get you wet; so there is no reason to say he who is not baptized will not be saved.

Because, God accepts our FAITH, not our WATER, to give us The redemption that is found in Jesus.

Yes, God accepts our FAITH, but faith is not just INTELLECTUAL ASSENT. Faith requires action, or it is dead. And there are three actions that Scripture says lead to receiving salvation (as opposed to flowing out of having received salvation). Those three things are Repentance (Acts 3:19), Confession of Jesus' name as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and Baptism (Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16).

There are 2 Baptisms, at least.

One is this one... "One Lord, one Faith one Baptism", and that one isn't water.

There are many "baptisms", but there is only one of significance in the NT Church, and that one REQUIRES water (1 Pet 3:21, John 3:5, Eph 5:26).

Its this... "Spiritual Baptism".... or "by my SPIRIT sayeth the Lord".
Now you can continue to deny this and preach that water saves...., as the "water cults" teach, but that is heresy.

Heresy: Belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious doctrine. opinion profoundly at odds with what is generally accepted.
By definition, Jesus was a Heretic. His views of what our relationship with God is supposed to look like was completely at odds with the view of the "religious leaders" of His day. But their view was WRONG, and His was true. You can deny the truth, but your denial does not make it less truth. An individual receives the unearned gift of salvation during immersion (baptism) in water through the working of the Holy Spirit who cuts our sin from us and unites us with Jesus' death and resurrection (Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-4).

 

[Behold]

And there are many who are listening to the wrong spirit when they read Scripture. They listen to Satan's lie that you can go right up to the threshold but not enter into Christ and still be united with Him.

Many "come to the knowledge of the Truth, but never do they enter "Faith is counted as (Christ's) Righteousness.

Today, many thousands of people will die and go to Hell.
And so many of them, will be thinking....>"I KNEW IT WAS TRUE.... I KNEW IT WAS TRUE..... OH GOD, I KNEW IT WAS TRUE".

But they never took that step of FAITH., and its too late now, as you can't be born again in Hell.

That is not what Mark 16:16 says. I says:
He who believes AND IS BAPTIZED will be saved.

And the rest is the part i knew you would not post..

It says...>"and He/They who BELIEVE NOT, shall be damned.

Notice that WATER is left out....and that is because its not a part of Salvation.

Read John 3:36.

It'll explain to you that God "damns" a person, for not BELIEVING.........and that means that water has no part in Salvation, or Damnation.

Yes, God accepts our FAITH, but faith

Yes, as "without FAITH its impossible to please God"

Water can't please God. Water just get you wet on the outside, whereas FAITH is in the HEART, and that is What God, is dealing with., when saving a person.

By definition, Jesus was a Heretic.

Not by God's definition, but by the "brood of Vipers" who were as fanatical about Moses as Calvinist's are obsessed with their Master, = Calvin

 

[Doug Brents]

Many "come to the knowledge of the Truth, but never do they enter "Faith is counted as (Christ's) Righteousness.

Today, many thousands of people will die and go to Hell.
And so many of them, will be thinking....>"I KNEW IT WAS TRUE.... I KNEW IT WAS TRUE..... OH GOD, I KNEW IT WAS TRUE".

But they never took that step of FAITH., and its too late now, as you can't be born again in Hell.

That is very true.

And the rest is the part i knew you would not post..

It says...>"and He/They who BELIEVE NOT, shall be damned.

Notice that WATER is left out....and that is because its not a part of Salvation.

I addressed that in the very next section, which you so conveniently ignored.
You think that just because baptism is not mentioned in the second half of the verse that it is unimportant?
Consider:
If you are hungry and eat a sandwich, you will be filled.
If you are not hungry, you will not be filled.

Is the eating a sandwich important in the first half? Absolutely. Because if you are hungry but don't eat the sandwich you will not be filled.
But it is useless to eat a sandwich if you are not hungry, so there is no need to mention eating the sandwich there.

Read John 3:36.

It'll explain to you that God "damns" a person, for not BELIEVING.........and that means that water has no part in Salvation, or Damnation.

John 3:36 - "The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."
The one who does not believe is damned already (John 3:18), but it takes obedience to the Son to receive His salvation (Heb 5:9).

Yes, as "without FAITH its impossible to please God"

Water can't please God.

It is not the water that pleases God. It is the obedience to His will apart from our own understanding.

Water just get you wet on the outside,

That is exactly what 1 Pet 3:21 says, baptism is not about the water cleansing the outside of the body, but a surrender to Christ to receive the cleansing of the conscience by the Holy Spirit.

whereas FAITH is in the HEART, and that is What God, is dealing with., when saving a person.

Faith is not only in the heart, else it would not require action for it to be alive and effective (James 2:26).

Not by God's definition, but by the "brood of Vipers" who were as fanatical about Moses as Calvinist's are obsessed with their Master, = Calvin

Heretic simply means that one does not believe the "popular, common, generally held" view. That does not mean that the common view is correct. The common view of baptism is that it is something done after salvation is received, but that is not the Biblical view, which would mean that the Bible is heretical to the common view. But the Bible is always right, and so the heretical is upheld and the common view will be condemned in this case.

 

[Behold]

That is very true.

I addressed that in the very next section, which you so conveniently ignored.

I didnt ignore it.

I showed you that what damns you is Unbelief, as God accepts faith to Save us..... not water.

I showed you John 3:36.

If you read it, you'll notice that God only damns for UNBELIEF.......and again, no water found regarding Salvation, or Damnation.

 

[Doug Brents]

I didnt ignore it.

I showed you that what damns you is Unbelief, as God accepts faith to Save us..... not water.

I showed you John 3:36.

If you read it, you'll notice that God only damns for UNBELIEF.......and again, no water found regarding Salvation, or Damnation.

And again, you only addressed the parts of my comment that you think you can argue against.
You need to read all of what John 3:36 says. Yes, it says we are condemned for unbelief. But what does is say saves us? OBEDIENCE!!

 

[Johann]

And again, you only addressed the parts of my comment that you think you can argue against.
You need to read all of what John 3:36 says. Yes, it says we are condemned for unbelief. But what does is say saves us? OBEDIENCE!!

Many here ignores the Imperatives as recorded in Scriptures.
J.

 

[Behold]

But what does is say saves us? OBEDIENCE!!

If "obedience" died on the Cross for your sin, then believe in Obedience.

If "water baptism" died on the CROSS for your sin, then keep obsessing on that Water... @Doug Brents

 

[Doug Brents]

If "obedience" died on the Cross for your sin, then believe in Obedience.

If "water baptism" died on the CROSS for your sin, then keep obsessing on that Water... @Doug Brents

Neither obedience or water died on the cross. But the one who did said that it is through rebirth in water that we receive His blood, and are washed clean and made pure (John 3:5, Eph 5:26-27). I am going to trust Him and His promises rather than those who ignore parts of His word, defy His commands, and teach things contrary to His will.

 

[Behold]

But the one who did said that it is through rebirth in water t

Jesus never said that we are born again by water.

That is the CATHOLIC CULT BIBLE that teaches this Satanic Lie.

"born again BY WATER"..

See that verse?

That is the CATHOLIC BIBLE, that has this wording.....

Get a KJV, and then get a Douay Rheims I(Catholic bible).

Read that verse in John 3.

You'll see., as Born again BY WATER......is the "cult of mary" teaching found in THEIR BIBLE...., that twists Acts 2:38, into their heresy that you've believed.

 

[Doug Brents]

Jesus never said that we are born again by water.

John 3:5

That is the CATHOLIC CULT BIBLE that teaches this Satanic Lie.

So John is not a part of your Bible? Interesting. And he was the Apostle that Jesus loved.

"born again BY WATER"..
See that verse?

New International Version
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

New Living Translation
Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.

English Standard Version
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Berean Standard Bible
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless anyone be born of water and of the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God.

King James Bible
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

New King James Version
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

New American Standard Bible
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

NASB 1995
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

NASB 1977
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Legacy Standard Bible
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Amplified Bible
Jesus answered, “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot [ever] enter the kingdom of God.

Christian Standard Bible
Jesus answered, “Truly I tell you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Jesus answered, “I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

American Standard Version
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Yeshua answered and said to him: “Timeless truth I am telling you: “If a person is not born from water and The Spirit, it is impossible that he shall enter the Kingdom of God.

Contemporary English Version
Jesus answered: I tell you for certain that before you can get into God's kingdom, you must be born not only by water, but by the Spirit.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

English Revised Version
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Jesus answered Nicodemus, "I can guarantee this truth: No one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.

Good News Translation
"I am telling you the truth," replied Jesus, "that no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.

International Standard Version
Jesus answered, "Truly, I tell you emphatically, unless a person is born of water and Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Literal Standard Version
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone may not be born of water and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the Kingdom of God;

Majority Standard Bible
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

New American Bible
Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.

NET Bible
Jesus answered, "I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

New Revised Standard Version
Jesus answered, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.

New Heart English Bible
Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I tell you, unless one is born of water and Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.

Webster's Bible Translation
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say to thee, Except a man be born of water, and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Weymouth New Testament
"In most solemn truth I tell you," replied Jesus, "that unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God.

World English Bible
Jesus answered, “Most certainly I tell you, unless one is born of water and Spirit, he can’t enter into God’s Kingdom.

Young's Literal Translation
Jesus answered, 'Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;

Douay-Rheims Bible
Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Interesting, I see EVERY SINGLE VERSION here says BORN AGAIN OF WATER AND THE SPIRIT (HOLY GHOST). I don't see ANY that say BY WATER. I don't read a catholic bible. I read the NASB because I find it to be the most easily readable of the "word for word" translations of Scripture.

That is the CATHOLIC BIBLE, that has this wording.....
Get a KJV, and then get a Douay Rheims I(Catholic bible).
Read that verse in John 3.
You'll see., as Born again BY WATER......is the "cult of mary" teaching found in THEIR BIBLE...., that twists Acts 2:38, into their heresy that you've believed.

I have never studied with anyone from the catholic cult. I do not believe in the papist ideals, nor will I ever.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I agree with everything you said right up until you put the "Jewish" label on it. There is no such thing as a Jewish Christian, or a Gentile Christian; there is only Christian or non-Christian. Rom 8:14-17, Gal 3:29, 4:7, Titus 3:7, and 1 Pet 1:3-5 all say that those who trust in Jesus, the Christ and Messiah, are heirs of the promise made to Abraham and the Covenant made in Christ. Then we come to Eph 3:6, which specifically and clearly says that the Gentiles are also included in the promise, and are also heirs with the Jews in Christ.

I find it very troubling that Gentile Christians go to great lengths and extreme biblical gymnastics to elbow their way into the Israeli Covenants when there is no mention of Gentiles in any covenant.
The New Covenant is between Yahweh and with the House of Israel. YHWH is the National Name of Israel's God. When Moses asked when he gets questioned as to who sent him, God said I AM. YHWH.
OK. Let's look at your Scriptures:

But in order to come to the knowledge of the truth there is one truth that must be established and that is that Paul, a Jewish Christians, writes to other Jewish Christians at Rome. The whole of the New Covenant Scriptures in our canon are Jewish Christ-followers (Peter, James, John, Matthew, Mark, etc.) who wrote their epistles to Jewish Christians, and everything discussed has to do with Jewish issues.

Romans was written to Jewish Christians. Have you read and studied its content in context to the Jew?

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. Rom. 8:14–17.

23 But before faith came, we (Jews) were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ (Israel's Messiah), that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ (spiritual matters, which is why "Christ" precedes "Jesus" the man/blood.) Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Gal. 3:23–29.

The issue was what effect Messiah's coming had upon their covenants, specifically, the Abrahamic Covenant. Paul clears this up to Jewish Christians in the Galatian region. As Pharisee one of the prayers of the religious leaders in Israel was the prayer "I thank thee O' God/YHWH that I was not born a Gentile, or a slave, or a female." That theology gets blown out of the water by what Paul says to the Jewish Christians who come out of Judaism and into the New Covenant. Paul is not advocating the loss of distinction or uniqueness for in Ephesians and Philemon he upholds each person's distinctness and uniqueness in the body of Christ. Paul is not a Socialist.

You missed this in your attempt to say something using Gal. 4:7. It's right here:

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we (Jews) might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal. 4:3–5.

A Jewish Messiah sent to the Jews to REDEEM THEM from under the Law. Gentiles were never 'under the Law' so this doesn't apply to them and as I said, Paul writes this letter to Jewish Christians in Asia Minor in Jewish Churches. The whole letter addresses Jewish issues, their history, their culture, their covenants, their prophecies, and important Jewish/Hebrew people. Paul is not addressing this letter nor any of his letters to Gentiles (except at least two personal letters to Timothy.) Even in these two letter Paul addresses Jewish issues.

In response to your Titus 3:7 read this:

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us (Jews) by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Tt 3:5.

Again, speaking of Jewish issues. The Holy Spirit of Promise was Promised to Israel.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 1 Peter 1:3–5.

Quoting Peter, who along with James, was a notorious Judaizer. The whole letter Peter addresses Jewish ideas, Scripture, prophets, promises, the Law, etc. I don't know which passage to post that shows this. I think you should read it and try to understand it as if you are Jewish and with as much as possible, a Jewish mind.

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Eph. 3:6.

Paul is talking about Gentiles being fellowheirs to the PROMISE not the covenant for the New Covenant did not include Gentiles (Jer. 31.)

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Eph. 1:13.

Peter, speaking to the twelve tribes in Jerusalem says:

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: Acts 2:16–17.

Continuing:

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Acts 2:36.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Acts 2:39.

A Jewish Covenant with a Jewish Messiah sent to the lost sheep of the House of ISRAEL.
Not to Gentiles for God made no covenant with Gentiles nor any Gentile of their seed as God did with Abraham and to his seed.

 

[Doug Brents]

I find it very troubling that Gentile Christians go to great lengths and extreme biblical gymnastics to elbow their way into the Israeli Covenants when there is no mention of Gentiles in any covenant.

I find it very troubling that a you would not know, or defy, Scripture to the point of trying to exclude from covenant with God those He has invited into His fold.
You clearly did not read the Scriptures I posted in my last comment (Rom 8:14-17, Gal 3:29, 4:7, Titus 3:7, 1 Pet 1:3-5, and Eph 3:6). Especially Eph 3:6 which says clearly and unmistakable that Gentiles are part of the promise (covenant) in Jesus.
"to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel"
This one verse completely destroys your argument that Gentiles are not part of any covenant. Gentiles ARE equally part of the New Covenant, equally heirs of the blessing in the Covenant, and equal members of the Body of Christ (the Church).

The New Covenant is between Yahweh and with the House of Israel. YHWH is the National Name of Israel's God. When Moses asked when he gets questioned as to who sent him, God said I AM. YHWH.

And the Gentiles have been brought in and granted full membership in Israel through faith in Jesus.

OK. Let's look at your Scriptures:

But in order to come to the knowledge of the truth there is one truth that must be established and that is that Paul, a Jewish Christians, writes to other Jewish Christians at Rome. The whole of the New Covenant Scriptures in our canon are Jewish Christ-followers (Peter, James, John, Matthew, Mark, etc.) who wrote their epistles to Jewish Christians, and everything discussed has to do with Jewish issues.

That is NOT TRUE at all. Yes, most of the Scriptures were written by Jewish men (Luke may have been either a Gentile or a Hellenized Jew, but he wrote with the authority and support of Peter). But many of them were written to Gentile congregations, and with Gentile issues at their center. We have already been over this point, so I won't belabor it again.

Romans was written to Jewish Christians. Have you read and studied its content in context to the Jew?

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. Rom. 8:14–17.

Romans was written by Paul to the Church that was in Rome, and the authority for the letter is from Christ Jesus "through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles in behalf of His name, 6 among whom [whom refers back to Gentiles] you also are the called of Jesus Christ; to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." This means that "YOU" who are so called is speaking mostly about Gentiles, but is also applicable to the Jews who are in Rome.

23 But before faith came, we (Jews) were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ (Israel's Messiah), that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ (spiritual matters, which is why "Christ" precedes "Jesus" the man/blood.) Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Gal. 3:23–29.

Galatians was written to all the Churches in the region of Galatia. These congregations included both Jews and Gentiles. "We" in verse 23 above probably does refer to the Jews. But in verse 26 he stops referring to only the Jews, and says that "you all" are children of God by faith in Jesus, the Christ and Messiah. (notice that he is using the Greek Christ, not the Hebrew Messiah. They mean the same thing, but he is speaking to both Jew and Gentile and so uses the Greek instead of the Hebrew word).

The issue was what effect Messiah's coming had upon their covenants, specifically, the Abrahamic Covenant. Paul clears this up to Jewish Christians in the Galatian region. As Pharisee one of the prayers of the religious leaders in Israel was the prayer "I thank thee O' God/YHWH that I was not born a Gentile, or a slave, or a female." That theology gets blown out of the water by what Paul says to the Jewish Christians who come out of Judaism and into the New Covenant. Paul is not advocating the loss of distinction or uniqueness for in Ephesians and Philemon he upholds each person's distinctness and uniqueness in the body of Christ. Paul is not a Socialist.

Yes, socially, and culturally, there is still a distinct difference between the Jew and Gentile. But that difference is completely gone in the religious and spiritual context. With God, there is no longer a Jew or Gentile, only a believer or an unbeliever.

You missed this in your attempt to say something using Gal. 4:7. It's right here:

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we (Jews) might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal. 4:3–5.

A Jewish Messiah sent to the Jews to REDEEM THEM from under the Law. Gentiles were never 'under the Law' so this doesn't apply to them and as I said, Paul writes this letter to Jewish Christians in Asia Minor in Jewish Churches. The whole letter addresses Jewish issues, their history, their culture, their covenants, their prophecies, and important Jewish/Hebrew people. Paul is not addressing this letter nor any of his letters to Gentiles (except at least two personal letters to Timothy.) Even in these two letter Paul addresses Jewish issues.

If you only read these letters in terms of Jewish issues, then you will miss more than half of the meaning in them. Reread Eph 3:6, and then (having come to the understanding that Gentiles are fully and equally part of the New Covenant promise) reread the entirety of Paul's writing. There is so much about the Gentiles in them, and working out how Gentiles can, and must, become part of the congregations of the Church.

In response to your Titus 3:7 read this:

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us (Jews) by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Tt 3:5.

Again, you are putting Jews into the Scripture where God does not. Titus was (at least is thought to be by historians) a Gentile who was converted to Christ by Paul. So Paul is saying "us" (Paul and Titus, a Jew and Gentile) are saved equally by Jesus' mercy.

Again, speaking of Jewish issues. The Holy Spirit of Promise was Promised to Israel.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 1 Peter 1:3–5.

Quoting Peter, who along with James, was a notorious Judaizer. The whole letter Peter addresses Jewish ideas, Scripture, prophets, promises, the Law, etc. I don't know which passage to post that shows this. I think you should read it and try to understand it as if you are Jewish and with as much as possible, a Jewish mind.

You are correct that Peter was very much addicted to the Law of Moses, and tried to keep the Law even when he was shown that it was obsolete. Paul even had to call Peter out for his hypocrisy when he ate with Gentiles up until some Jews showed up and then Peter pulled away from the Gentiles and caused even Barnabas to sin (in pulling away from the Gentiles hypocritically) (Gal 2:11-21).

But Peter's letters are equally applicable to Gentile Christians (though there is no such thing since there is neither Jew nor Gentile in regards to the Church) because everyone who believes in Jesus is equally an heir to the covenant made in Christ.

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Eph. 3:6.

Paul is talking about Gentiles being fellowheirs to the PROMISE not the covenant for the New Covenant did not include Gentiles (Jer. 31.)

What is the "promise" if not the Covenant? The New Covenant in Christ is the promise that is in Christ by the Gospel. They are one and the same.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Eph. 1:13.

Ephesians is another letter written to a primarily Gentile congregation of the Church. And the fact that the Holy Spirit of Promise is given to the Gentiles (equally to how He is given to the Jews) speaks volumes about the lack of separation between the two.

Peter, speaking to the twelve tribes in Jerusalem says:

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: Acts 2:16–17.

But you skip over the fact that the Spirit will be poured out on "ALL FLESH", Jewish.

Continuing:

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Acts 2:36.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Acts 2:39.

A Jewish Covenant with a Jewish Messiah sent to the lost sheep of the House of ISRAEL.
Not to Gentiles for God made no covenant with Gentiles nor any Gentile of their seed as God did with Abraham and to his seed.

In this context, Peter was speaking to an exclusively Jewish crowd. But over in Acts 17, when Paul is preaching to the almost completely Gentile crowd in the Areopagus, he tells them that they also can be recipients of the promise (covenant) that was made in Christ.

 

[Johann]

In this context, Peter was speaking to an exclusively Jewish crowd. But over in Acts 17, when Paul is preaching to the almost completely Gentile crowd in the Areopagus, he tells them that they also can be recipients of the promise (covenant) that was made in Christ.

Just to add-
COVENANT PROMISES TO PATRIARCHS

This initial promise of a special covenant relationship was made to

Abraham, Gen. 12:1-3
land, Gen. 12:1,7; 13:4-15; 15:18-21 (i.e., Canaan, Gen. 15:12-21)
people, Gen. 12:2, 13:16; 15:4-5; 17:2-6; 22:18 (see full list on imagery at Gen. 13:16)
blessing to the world, Gen. 12:3, 18:18; 22:18 (see SPECIAL TOPIC: YHWH'S ETERNAL REDEMPTIVE PLAN)

Isaac, Gen. 26:2-4
land
people
blessing to the world
Jacob, Gen. 28:2-4,13; 35:9-12; 48:3-4
land
people
the nation of Israel (a land), Exod. 3:8,17; 6:8; 13:5; 33:1-3; Deut. 1:7-8,35; 4:31; 9:3; 11:25; 31:7; Josh. 1:2,3,6,11,13,15; 2:9,24; 18:3; 21:43; 24:13
Just an added thought. This land promise was conditional on the individual tribes occupying their allotments. They must

take it militarily
settle it
maintain covenant faithfulness (cf. Deut. 4:40; 7:12-13; 8:1-20)
The OT focuses on a land and a covenant people, but the NT focuses on YHWH's concern for all humans made in His image and likeness (cf. Gen. 1:26,27). They were all created for fellowship with their Creator.


The call of Abraham was the first step in a call to all (cf. Gen. 3:15; 12:3; Exod. 19:5; Isa. 2:2-4; 12:4-5; 25:6-9; 42:6-12; 45:22-23; 49:5-6; 51:4-5; 56:6-8; 60:1-3; 66:23; Ezek.18:23,32; Mic. 4:1-4; Mal.1:11; John 3:16; 4:42; Acts 10:34-35; 1 Tim. 2:4; 4:10; Titus 2:11; 2 Pet. 3:9; 1 John 2:2; 4:14). The promises to the Patriarchs have been fulfilled and over flowed! Jesus is the Savior of the world!

Ephesians Chapter 1

 

[Johann]

I find it very troubling that Gentile Christians go to great lengths and extreme biblical gymnastics to elbow their way into the Israeli Covenants when there is no mention of Gentiles in any covenant.

Are Gentiles included in the New Covenant?

Seems like a stupid question to ask. However there are always those who would want to tell others their “revelations” are greater than others. There is now a teaching that tells us that…

hischarisisenough.wordpress.com

Are Gentiles included in the New Covenant?
IMG_1249.JPG

Seems like a stupid question to ask. However there are always those who would want to tell others their “revelations” are greater than others.

There is now a teaching that tells us that the New Covenant does not apply to Gentiles but just the Jews. Their premise is simple. The Gentiles were never under the Law.

 

[Behold]

Why is the Grace of God the Cross of Christ?

Its because God became one of us, to save all of US..... = The offer of eternal Salvation.

Where is this found?

A.) The Cross of Christ.

John 14:6

 

[Doug Brents]

Why is the Grace of God the Cross of Christ?

Its because God became one of us, to save all of US..... = The offer of eternal Salvation.

Where is this found?

A.) The Cross of Christ.

John 14:6

One grace of God is IN the cross, but that is not the only grace of God. So to say that the grace of God IS the cross of Christ is a misnomer.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Are Gentiles included in the New Covenant?

Seems like a stupid question to ask. However there are always those who would want to tell others their “revelations” are greater than others. There is now a teaching that tells us that…

hischarisisenough.wordpress.com

Are Gentiles included in the New Covenant?
IMG_1249.JPG

Seems like a stupid question to ask. However there are always those who would want to tell others their “revelations” are greater than others.

There is now a teaching that tells us that the New Covenant does not apply to Gentiles but just the Jews. Their premise is simple. The Gentiles were never under the Law.

VERY SIMPLE.
Seems Gentile Christians have something called I-read-it-but-can't-understand-the-context-that-it-was-written-to-and-for-the-Jews-itis.
Gentile Christians have been stealing the covenants God made with the house of Israel since the Temple was destroyed in AD 70. Catholics do it but they think that the center of Christendom is at Rome and it isn't.
The New Covenant Church was founded and populated by Jewish Christians since the day 3000 Jews were saved at the Feast of Harvest.

Inheritance theft has another word for it: TOMB RAIDERS.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I find it very troubling that a you would not know, or defy, Scripture to the point of trying to exclude from covenant with God those He has invited into His fold.
You clearly did not read the Scriptures I posted in my last comment (Rom 8:14-17, Gal 3:29, 4:7, Titus 3:7, 1 Pet 1:3-5, and Eph 3:6). Especially Eph 3:6 which says clearly and unmistakable that Gentiles are part of the promise (covenant) in Jesus.
"to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel"
This one verse completely destroys your argument that Gentiles are not part of any covenant. Gentiles ARE equally part of the New Covenant, equally heirs of the blessing in the Covenant, and equal members of the Body of Christ (the Church).
And the Gentiles have been brought in and granted full membership in Israel through faith in Jesus.

That is NOT TRUE at all. Yes, most of the Scriptures were written by Jewish men (Luke may have been either a Gentile or a Hellenized Jew, but he wrote with the authority and support of Peter). But many of them were written to Gentile congregations, and with Gentile issues at their center. We have already been over this point, so I won't belabor it again.

Romans was written by Paul to the Church that was in Rome, and the authority for the letter is from Christ Jesus "through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles in behalf of His name, 6 among whom [whom refers back to Gentiles] you also are the called of Jesus Christ; to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." This means that "YOU" who are so called is speaking mostly about Gentiles, but is also applicable to the Jews who are in Rome.

Galatians was written to all the Churches in the region of Galatia. These congregations included both Jews and Gentiles. "We" in verse 23 above probably does refer to the Jews. But in verse 26 he stops referring to only the Jews, and says that "you all" are children of God by faith in Jesus, the Christ and Messiah. (notice that he is using the Greek Christ, not the Hebrew Messiah. They mean the same thing, but he is speaking to both Jew and Gentile and so uses the Greek instead of the Hebrew word).

Yes, socially, and culturally, there is still a distinct difference between the Jew and Gentile. But that difference is completely gone in the religious and spiritual context. With God, there is no longer a Jew or Gentile, only a believer or an unbeliever.

If you only read these letters in terms of Jewish issues, then you will miss more than half of the meaning in them. Reread Eph 3:6, and then (having come to the understanding that Gentiles are fully and equally part of the New Covenant promise) reread the entirety of Paul's writing. There is so much about the Gentiles in them, and working out how Gentiles can, and must, become part of the congregations of the Church.

Again, you are putting Jews into the Scripture where God does not. Titus was (at least is thought to be by historians) a Gentile who was converted to Christ by Paul. So Paul is saying "us" (Paul and Titus, a Jew and Gentile) are saved equally by Jesus' mercy.

You are correct that Peter was very much addicted to the Law of Moses, and tried to keep the Law even when he was shown that it was obsolete. Paul even had to call Peter out for his hypocrisy when he ate with Gentiles up until some Jews showed up and then Peter pulled away from the Gentiles and caused even Barnabas to sin (in pulling away from the Gentiles hypocritically) (Gal 2:11-21).

But Peter's letters are equally applicable to Gentile Christians (though there is no such thing since there is neither Jew nor Gentile in regards to the Church) because everyone who believes in Jesus is equally an heir to the covenant made in Christ.

What is the "promise" if not the Covenant? The New Covenant in Christ is the promise that is in Christ by the Gospel. They are one and the same.

Ephesians is another letter written to a primarily Gentile congregation of the Church. And the fact that the Holy Spirit of Promise is given to the Gentiles (equally to how He is given to the Jews) speaks volumes about the lack of separation between the two.

But you skip over the fact that the Spirit will be poured out on "ALL FLESH", Jewish.

In this context, Peter was speaking to an exclusively Jewish crowd. But over in Acts 17, when Paul is preaching to the almost completely Gentile crowd in the Areopagus, he tells them that they also can be recipients of the promise (covenant) that was made in Christ.

The New Covenant was promised to the House of Israel and Judah of twelve tribes.
Jeremiah 31 says this unequivocally that this covenant is with the House of Israel no matter how many Scriptures you post from the New Testament that DISCUSS that covenant by others.
The original Covenant is with Israel.
At the Marriage Supper Isreal is there by Covenant.
Gentiles are there by invitation *Matt. 22.)