The Grace of God : Is the Cross of Christ

[Behold]

Keep telling yourself that. Hopefully it will help with the temperature gets too high.

Im telling you that.
Ive already learned it.

No, the seed is the Word. The soil is the person.

yes.
Good.
Stay there.

Reference please.
Not sure where you get "city water supply" from. \\

Its what they used in the Baptism that got you wet.

Recognize it now?

Not according to the rest of Scripture. Mark 16:16, "he who believes AND IS BAPTIZED will be saved"

You didnt quote the rest of the verse, again, .

And what else does it say? It says that those who dont believe, are damned".
Not those who didnt get wet.
So, we see that its the BELIEVING that is where God meets sinner with Salvation......not in the city water supply.
If you go to Hell, its not because you didnt get wet, its because you never gave God your Faith in Christ" = BELIEVED.

Read what Scripture really says, not the ridiculousness that is this "belief only" nonsense many spout today.

Paul is the one who teaches "Grace through faith".. and "Justification by Faith" without works or water.
Pail wrote 13 Epistles.
its the Cross deniers who refer to Him, as you do.

 

[Behold]

I am not associated with the catholic cult in any way.

@Doug Brents

Are you a Berean ??

or....

Do you teach that Acts 2:38 is the "gospel", as If Paul's Gospel does not exit?

 

[Doug Brents]

Im telling you that.
Ive already learned it.

Thing is, I don't trust you. I trust Scripture, and Scripture says you are wrong.

Its what they used in the Baptism that got you wet.

Recognize it now?

As I said, the source of the water is irrelevant. City water supply, river, lake, swimming pool, ditch, ocean, it matters not. What matters is the heart of obedience to what Christ commanded.

You didnt quote the rest of the verse, again, .

You say that as if it has bearing on the command in the half I did quote. It does not. As Jesus Himself said in John 3:5, if you are not born of both water and the Spirit you cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. Some say this refers to being born of a woman (her water breaks), but EVERYONE is born in this way, so this is not the water that is referred to in the New Birth. It is water baptism. Which coincides with 1 Pet 3:21 where we are told that it is in water baptism that we are saved, and with Eph 5:26 that we are told that Christ washes us clean (of sin) through the washing of water by the Word (baptism).

And what else does it say? It says that those who dont believe, are damned".
Not those who didnt get wet.

We are all already damned, because we sinned. This is not a commentary on how to be condemned, but how to receive salvation. Let's say I am a Governor of a state, and I walked into a prison in my state and said that everyone who believed me and kissed my ring would be set free, but anyone who did not believe me would remain in prison. Now, if someone does not believe me but kisses my ring, are they freed? No, they didn't believe me (they didn't meet both criteria). And anyone who believes me but doesn't kiss my ring, they didn't really believe me (again didn't meet both criteria). So they are not freed either. Only those who believe what I say, and take action to obey me, receive the blessing I am willing to give.

So, we see that its the BELIEVING that is where God meets sinner with Salvation......not in the city water supply.
If you go to Hell, its not because you didnt get wet, its because you never gave God your Faith in Christ" = BELIEVED.

But if you believed (intellectual assent) but did nothing else (did not obey), then God says you didn't really believe at all, and so did not have faith, and so are not saved. It is not the intellectual assent that matters. It is the full trust shown through obedience that matters.

Paul is the one who teaches "Grace through faith".. and "Justification by Faith" without works or water.

Grace (a gift) through faith (belief in action). Not without (action of any kind), but without "works of the Law (of Moses)." His stress is not on there being no action at all, because Paul himself says that confession of Jesus as Lord "with the mouth" (most definitely a physical action) is required to receive salvation (Rom 10:9-10).

Pail wrote 13 Epistles.

Paul did write 13 Epistles, and in many of them he makes water baptism clear as the point of salvation (Eph 5:26, Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-4, and others).

its the Cross deniers who refer to Him, as you do.

Without the cross salvation would not be possible and EVERYONE would be lost in sin, condemned to Hell for eternity. It is the cross that gives baptism meaning. But without baptism, a person remains outside of Christ and is not covered by the credit of righteousness that God gives to those who obey Him.

Are you a Berean ??

or....

Do you teach that Acts 2:38 is the "gospel", as If Paul's Gospel does not exit?

Not a member of any Berean Church, if that is what you are asking.

And I do not teach that Acts 2:38 is the Gospel. The Gospel is the good news that God came to Earth in the form of Jesus, who lived a perfectly sinless life, died on the cross, and was resurrected on the third day. In doing so, He took all of the penalty for all of the sins of the entire world upon Himself, and offers to credit His righteousness to anyone who will obey Him and make Him their Lord.
That being said, Acts 2:38 is one of the clearest statements of what is required to have that credit applied to oneself: through belief of the Gospel, repentance of sin, confession of Jesus' name as Lord, and baptism in order to receive the forgiveness of sin and the gift (indwelling) of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Behold]

Thing is, I don't trust you. I trust Scripture, and Scripture says you are wrong.

Paul says what im Teaching is true.
Read Romans 3:21-28.. as its what im showing you.
Also...
You have about 5-10 verses that you use, like a redundant loop...that your denomination or commentary has shown you as their understanding.
That's you. You just dont realize it yet.
Maybe its an online site.

If you keep reading me, you'll learn some of Paul's doctrine, and you can have this in your head, so that these spiritual seeds can produce for you, later on.

As I said, the source of the water is irrelevant. City water supply, river, lake, swimming pool, ditch, ocean, it matters not. What matters is the heart of obedience to what Christ commanded.

The only obedience that God requires to save you, is that you give God your faith in Christ.

"Faith, is counted (by GOD) as (Christ's) Righteousness"""", even as """"Abraham's faith was counted by God as righteousness."""

For the born again, "Abraham is the Father of our Faith".

You say that as if it has bearing on the command in the half I did quote. It does not. As Jesus Himself said in John 3:5, if you are not born of both water and the Spirit

You have to use just a little common sense..

Listen, can you be born again, into the KOG< if you were never born to begin with on the Earth?

So, that is 2 Births.

Earth Birth, by your mother, ... her water broke, and you came out.. You can ask her, and she'll verify that the sack of fluid you were in, insider her, broke, and the water/fluid came out, and you with it.
That is "born of water....the first birth..

NOW, Jesus says, to you...."you must be BORN.... again", as you've already been born once..... by your mother..

This 2nd Birth.....Born......AGAIN......is by the Spirit of God......not by water.
Water is just water,, no matter if its in your fish bowl, or coming out of the hose in your yard.
It cant save you, but it can get you wet.
If water saves and washes sin away, then everyone who ever took a shower or bath is going to heaven.

We are all already damned, because we sinned. This is not a commentary on how to be condemned, but how to receive salvation.

Being a sinner qualifies you for this..

= "Jesus came into the world, to save....sinners"

We all qualified for that Salvation (Jesus is our Salvation) long ago.

When we believe in Christ by "faith".......God accepts our faith to give us HIS Salvation, as "the Gift of Salvation".

But if you believed (intellectual assent) but did nothing else (did not obey),

The proof you are saved is to be born again.
This is the "new birth", and God gives this to "all who call on the name of Jesus shall be saved"

Grace (a gift) through faith (belief in action). Not without (action of any kind), .

If you ever lead anyone to Christ, they dont have to dance for you.
THey dont even have to CRY.
What they have to do, is hear the gospel, as "faith comes by hearing" it, and they have to BELIEVE it with all their heart.
To do that, means they are repenting of their unbelief.

So.....Its like Acts 8.

Phillips and The Eunuch.. The Eunuch is newly born again and wants to get water baptized..
Phillip says....."you may, if you have believed in Christ with all your HEART.. first"...

There is your baptism, by water.
It happens after you believe, and God has already saved you., as "Grace through Faith"
"Justification by Faith".

Paul did write 13 Epistles, and in many of them he makes water baptism clear as the point of salvation (Eph 5:26, Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-4, and others).

Yes, 13.

I teach my students that he also wrote "Hebrews", but, that is another Thread.

Paul said. "Christ sent me not to water baptize".

And that is not because we are not to be water baptized....>He is just simply making the distinction between His Gospel of Grace and water that is not related to how to be born again, Spiritually.

But without baptism, a person remains outside of Christ and is not covered by the credit of righteousness that God gives to those who obey Him.

The Born again Christian is "made righteous" by God, not by water.
Water is just water.

Not a member of any Berean Church, if that is what you are asking.

Ok.
Im also not a Berean.
A forum friend invited me here, and im here for a while.

That being said, Acts 2:38 is one of the clearest statements of what is required to have that credit applied to oneself:

The Gospel of the Grace of God, came from Jesus to Paul, about 9 yrs, after Pentecost ( Peter and the water.)
And notice that Peter was not water baptized that day, nor were any in the upper room, and they all "spoke in/with tongues".
Yet no water baptism, and they all were saved, BEFORE Peter started Preaching to the 3000.
Be sure to take note of that timing.

Also note that the "comforter" the Holy Spirit was poured out during that Pentecost, but, Peter had already received the Holy Spirit, without water baptism, in John 20:22, along with the other 11 Apostles.
Read it.
No water.

So, here is the thing, to learn......... Paul was not even a Christian, when Peter was preaching to the 3000, during that Pentecost.
15 Yrs later, Paul met with Peter and all the Apostles, in Acts 15, and gave them all the correct understanding of "Grace through Faith".

And one more for you, about Peter.
Read Act 10.
This is about 10 yrs after Jesus is back in Heaven, and Peter still does not know that Gentiles can be saved.
So, never believe that this Apostle, in Act 2, had the Gospel, that Paul LATER gave to the body of Christ, as "the Gospel of Grace."
Paul is the Gentile Apostle, and Peter didnt even know that Gentiles could be SAVED, in Acts 2.

 

[Doug Brents]

Paul says what im Teaching is true.
Read Romans 3:21-28.. as its what im showing you.
Also...
You have about 5-10 verses that you use, like a redundant loop...that your denomination or commentary has shown you as their understanding.
That's you. You just dont realize it yet.
Maybe its an online site.

If you keep reading me, you'll learn some of Paul's doctrine, and you can have this in your head, so that these spiritual seeds can produce for you, later on.

There are probably about 20 or 30 passages that I come back to over and over, because they are the root of where I learned what I am saying. I don't cite Titus 1:5 to talk about baptism (or salvation in general) because it does not address that subject. But the passages I do reference speak directly to the fact that baptism is essential for salvation.

The only obedience that God requires to save you, is that you give God your faith in Christ.

"Faith, is counted (by GOD) as (Christ's) Righteousness"""", even as """"Abraham's faith was counted by God as righteousness."""

For the born again, "Abraham is the Father of our Faith".

Ok, let's stop here for a minute. We can address the rest of your comment later (be sure to bring it back up after we have addressed this).

You say that our faith is counted (credited) as righteousness by God just as Abraham's faith was counted as righteousness. And you are correct because this comes directly from Scripture. But to take Paul's reference to this by itself can lead to an erroneous understanding of what faith is.
So, what is faith? Where else do we find comments similar to Paul's that might give us more information?
Heb 11 gives a lot of evidence on what faith is. And James 2:14-26 puts in practical application. And James addresses Paul's statement that Abraham's faith was credited as righteousness directly. What do we learn?
Faith is NOT just intellectual assent (although it does require intellectual assent). Faith is not just a mental exercise. Faith without action is completely dead, useless, and incapable of bringing salvation to us (James 2:17, 26). James says that even Abraham put action behind his belief, and his actions completed/made perfect/brought to life his belief. And that (Abraham's action which completed/made perfect/brought to life his belief) was the faith that God credited as righteousness to him (James 2:22-23).

This leads to the understanding that the definition of faith in Heb 11:1 is not, as some translations put it, about confidence and assurance (purely mental qualities). It is evidence and substance (physical qualities that prove the mental qualities). Without the physical evidence the mental portions are not real, and so have no value. If you don't sit on the seat, your mental assent that the chair will hold you is meaningless and worthless; thus you don't really believe that the chair will hold you.

 

[Behold]

baptism is essential for salvation.

What you posted, is a "water cult", Catholic Lie, that is taught by their Demonic Douay Rheims Bible.
Your "church" has been captured by this "water cult".. as you are the fruit of your Church, and their Theology.
REALIZE THIS.. @Doug Brents

There is ONE Baptism, and ONE FAITH, and One LORD.

The ONE Baptism, is not water........its SPIRIT, its "The washing of REGENERATION by the word" and that is not the city water supply as the Cult of Mary taught your church., who produced you.

James says that even Abraham put action behind his belief,

Yes, that's true.

After we BELIEVE, ... after we Give God our FAITH, and He accepts it, to :"Justification BY Faith" "without works, or deeds of the Law", GOD then gives us the New Birth.. and we become a "new Creation in Christ".

So....Now,= we are in our WALK of Faith, that is our DISCIPLESHIP>........and now, because we are born again... we do this...

"Present your body as a living sacrifice to God, which is your reasonable SERVICE".

See that "Service'? That is our Discipleship, but its not our Salvation.

Salvation is what God Gives the BELIEVER.. that is entirely and eternally based on The finished work of Jesus on the Cross.

Discipleship, (SERVICE) is what we do as works, and deeds, because we have already been given "The Gift of Salvation">.

 

[Doug Brents]

What you posted, is a "water cult", Catholic Lie, that is taught by their Demonic Douay Rheims Bible.
Your "church" has been captured by this "water cult".. as you are the fruit of your Church, and their Theology.
REALIZE THIS.. @Doug Brents

There is ONE Baptism, and ONE FAITH, and One LORD.

The ONE Baptism, is not water........its SPIRIT, its "The washing of REGENERATION by the word" and that is not the city water supply as the Cult of Mary taught your church., who produced you.

Wrong again. This is completely an understanding that came from personal study of the Word of God, and then after extensive Spirit filled study of the Source which lead to understanding of what God is commanding, I studied the writings of many, many preachers, teachers, and scholars to see what they had gathered from their studies. I find that almost all of the "scholars" out there either refuse to acknowledge certain passages of Scripture, or they explain them away with Churcheology jargon and verbal slight of hand.

I began by searching for every place that the Bible mentions "saved" or "sins forgiven" or any of the other synonyms for salvation. I then reduced that to the passages that said there was something that "lead to" our reception of salvation as opposed to the many things that "flow from" our having received it. Most of the passages that say something leads to salvation only say "belief", but there are several that say something else leads to salvation. Like Acts 3:19 says that repentance is REQUIRED before God will wipe away our sins and send refreshing from Heaven. Another is Rom 10:9-10 which says that confession of Jesus' name "with the mouth" (clearly a physical, public act) leads to salvation. So there is at least one truly physical act that "leads to" a person receiving salvation from God. That fact alone completely destroys the doctrine taught by many that Eph 2:8-9 means that there is no physical act required for man to receive forgiveness. So, now that we have determined that there are, in fact, some physical actions that are REQUIRED for a man to do BEFORE salvation is received, we are now free to continue looking at the other Scriptures that speak of things that "lead to" receiving salvation. Among those are Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, and Acts 22:16. All of these passages say that baptism is required for receiving salvation. But as you point out, there are many people who see this as "Spirit baptism", and not baptism in water. But there are many reasons why that is not the case.
First, baptism is something that man is commanded to do (Matt 28:19). Go, Teach, Baptize - All of these are actions that the Apostles and other disciples were commanded to do. If it were Spirit baptism, then it would not be something man does, because man cannot cause the Spirit to baptize anyone.
Second, passages of Scripture like 1 Peter 3:21 and Acts 8:36 say that water is a part of the baptism that saves. This is not putting any mystical power in the water; it is simply acknowledging that God commanded us to do something that results in something completely different than what we would expect (just as He did with the Israelites marching around Jericho causing the walls to fall down).
Third, we can see from Acts 10:47 that the baptism that "wash[es] away your sins" requires the recipient to move and do something. If it were Spirit baptism then the recipient could remain where he was, but since the person must get up and go do something, it must be water baptism that is being talked about here also.

Yes, that's true.

After we BELIEVE, ... after we Give God our FAITH, and He accepts it, to :"Justification BY Faith" "without works, or deeds of the Law", GOD then gives us the New Birth.. and we become a "new Creation in Christ".

Not quite. As we see in James 2:20-22, our actions of obedience to God work to complete and perfect our belief. And these two (belief and actions) working together result in our being declared righteous before God. If there is no action, then we don't really believe (our faith is dead), and it is therefore worthless and useless for bringing God's blessing to us. And we see in Eph 2:8-9 that our alive, active, action-filled faith must precede our reception of salvation, because our faith is the conduit through which God's saving grace is poured upon us.

So....Now,= we are in our WALK of Faith, that is our DISCIPLESHIP>........and now, because we are born again... we do this...

"Present your body as a living sacrifice to God, which is your reasonable SERVICE".

See that "Service'? That is our Discipleship, but its not our Salvation.

Salvation is what God Gives the BELIEVER.. that is entirely and eternally based on The finished work of Jesus on the Cross.

Discipleship, (SERVICE) is what we do as works, and deeds, because we have already been given "The Gift of Salvation">.

You are correct that there are many actions, works, and deeds that flow out of having already been given salvation. But repentance, confession of Jesus' name as Lord, and baptism are not part of the works and deeds that "flow out of" our having received salvation. There are the actions that "lead to" our reception of salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

I didnt ignore it.

I showed you that what damns you is Unbelief, as God accepts faith to Save us..... not water.

I showed you John 3:36.

If you read it, you'll notice that God only damns for UNBELIEF.......and again, no water found regarding Salvation, or Damnation.

I often hear works-salvationists cite John 3:36 from the NASB and "stress" the word "obey" to imply that we are saved by obedience/works. In regard to "does not obey the Son" in the New American Standard translation of the Bible, this does not mean that receiving eternal life is received based on the merits of our obedience/works which follows believing in the Son but obey by choosing to believe in the Son. If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To obey the Son here is to choose to believe in the Son.

The KJV renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says "rejects the Son" and the HCSB says, "refuses to believe in the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to reject the Son by refusing to believe in the Son.

 

[Behold]

I often hear works-salvationists cite John 3:36 from the NASB and "stress" the word "obey" to imply that we are saved by obedience/works. In regard to "does not obey the Son" in the New American Standard translation of the Bible, this does not mean that receiving eternal life is received based on the merits of our obedience/works which follows believing in the Son but obey by choosing to believe in the Son. If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To obey the Son here is to choose to believe in the Son.

The KJV renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says "rejects the Son" and the HCSB says, "refuses to believe in the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to reject the Son by refusing to believe in the Son.

Salvation is God's Gift of Righteousness...= that Jesus purchased for us with HIS OWN Blood and Death.

So, when we hear "religious" "self righteous" people talk about "keeping commandments" and "confessing sin"... and so forth to try to BE SAVED or STAY SAVED, then this person, and their Pastor, Pope, or whatever commentary taught them, ... literally have no understanding of WHY Jesus died on the Cross and WHAT this manifested as an Eternal END Result, regarding ALL who have believed and are BORN AGAIN.

Not just water baptized.......but BORN AGAIN.

 

[Johann]

I often hear works-salvationists cite John 3:36 from the NASB and "stress" the word "obey" to imply that we are saved by obedience/works. In regard to "does not obey the Son" in the New American Standard translation of the Bible, this does not mean that receiving eternal life is received based on the merits of our obedience/works which follows believing in the Son but obey by choosing to believe in the Son. If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To obey the Son here is to choose to believe in the Son.

More correctly, as Rev., obeyeth not. Disbelief is regarded in its active manifestation, disobedience. The verb πείθω means to persuade, to cause belief, to induce one to do something by persuading, and so runs into the meaning of to obey, properly as the result of persuasion. See on Act_5:29. Compare 1Pe_4:17; Rom_2:8; Rom_11:30, Rom_11:31. Obedience, however, includes faith. Compare Rom_1:5, the obedience of faith.

 

[mailmandan]

More correctly, as Rev., obeyeth not. Disbelief is regarded in its active manifestation, disobedience. The verb πείθω means to persuade, to cause belief, to induce one to do something by persuading, and so runs into the meaning of to obey, properly as the result of persuasion. See on Act_5:29. Compare 1Pe_4:17; Rom_2:8; Rom_11:30, Rom_11:31. Obedience, however, includes faith. Compare Rom_1:5, the obedience of faith.

Disobedience is an active manifestation of disbelief, just as obedience is an active manifestation of belief.

In regard to Romans 1:5, now although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God.

*Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works.

We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. We have access by faith into grace.. (Romans 5:2) not faith "and" obedience/works.

Faith is still faith and multiple acts of obedience which "follow" are works.

 

[Johann]

Disobedience is an active manifestation of disbelief, just as obedience is an active manifestation of belief.

In regard to Romans 1:5, now although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God.

*Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works.

We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. We have access by faith into grace.. (Romans 5:2) not faith "and" obedience/works.

Faith is still faith and multiple acts of obedience which "follow" are works.

Rom 6:16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,
Rom 6:18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.

Rom 16:25 Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages
Rom 16:26 but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith—
Rom 16:27 to the only wise God be glory forevermore through Jesus Christ! Amen.

1Pe 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

Rom 15:18 For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me to bring the Gentiles to obedience—by word and deed,
Rom 15:19 by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God—so that from Jerusalem and all the way around to Illyricum I have fulfilled the ministry of the gospel of Christ;

Act 6:7 And the word of God continued to increase, and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests became obedient to the faith.

I concur with your post.
J.

 

[Behold]

More correctly, as Rev., obeyeth not. Disbelief is regarded in its active manifestation, disobedience. The verb πείθω means to persuade, to cause belief, to induce one to do something by persuading, and so runs into the meaning of to obey, properly as the result of persuasion. See on Act_5:29. Compare 1Pe_4:17; Rom_2:8; Rom_11:30, Rom_11:31. Obedience, however, includes faith. Compare Rom_1:5, the obedience of faith.

There is "faith in Christ" that God accepts, as "Faith is counted as Righteousness", and based on that..,. God gives to the BELIEVER, = Salvation.

Salvation is not part time, or temporary.
It its in fact "the righteousness of God" that is "imputed" to the Believer.
They now become "THE righteousness of God in Christ"... as "born again" = as " A NEW Creation... "IN Christ"

And that is finished.

The born again CHRISTian, = Starts FINISHED... as you can't be more born again, then to be born again, Spiritually.

This Believer who is now a born again CHRISTian.... has done no works for God yet.
They came to God as a Hell bound sinner, and Jesus "came into the world to Save Sinners". = And they both met at the Cross....... and the Believer's Salvation is based ONLY on The Cross of Christ, which is the finished work of Jesus.

After we are saved, we begin our walk of faith, seconds later......and the reason we have this walk, is because we are already born again, "in Christ" "One with God"... "made righteous".

Now, Heretics like Episkops and NetChaplin, and similar LEGALISTS who infect forums and anyone they can...., will tell you that you are to "go and do righteousness", and that way you are doing it, and God is not needed and the Cross is not Necessary.
Their GOSPEL is : Galatians 1:8
That's what heretics like those 2, teach.
They put YOU up on the Cross of your own self Righteousness, = trying to KEEP YOURSELF SAVED.
And that is because people like those 2, have no understanding of God's Son's Blood Atonement.

Also....There are those who are not born again, who are doing the same works, and trying to keep the same commandments, as some who are born again, but dont understand their Salvation.
What is the difference?
One of them is going to Hell when they die, and one of them, never can.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Salvation is God's Gift of Righteousness...= that Jesus purchased for us with HIS OWN Blood and Death.

So, when we hear "religious" "self righteous" people talk about "keeping commandments" and "confessing sin"... and so forth to try to BE SAVED or STAY SAVED, then this person, and their Pastor, Pope, or whatever commentary taught them, ... literally have no understanding of WHY Jesus died on the Cross and WHAT this manifested as an Eternal END Result, regarding ALL who have believed and are BORN AGAIN.

Not just water baptized.......but BORN AGAIN.

25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
Lk 10:25–28.

A couple of things to notice here.

1. This man was an obedient Jew.
2. There is no contention of controversy between this Jewish man and Rabbi Jesus.
3. The lawyer merely "tested" Jesus to see what He taught. It wasn't accusatory nor was the man trying to "trap" Jesus in the classic sense. It was a 'fact-finding' venture.
4. Being a lawyer meant he was associated with the established religion of Judaism, possibly a scribe or rabbi himself. Not all religious leaders were hostile to Jesus. Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea were sympathetic to Jesus.
5. "Stood up" is the body position for officiating" or "debate" and may indicate he was a rabbi as this is how debate in the Pharisaic tradition usually begins. One rabbi asks a question or makes a statement and the other responds. Typical. Peter also "stood up" in Acts 1:15 and this purpose was to lead the disciple to sin by choosing a replacement for Judas when the Lord up on Mount Olives commanded them to "tarry" (wait) until they were 'endued with power from on high." Peter didn't wait.
6. This lawyer knew the Torah. He understood that as a descendant of Abraham that he was an inheritor of his covenant, and the covenant of Isaac, and of Jacob.
7. As an inheritor of the Abrahamic Covenant (it never says one is an inheritor of the Mosaic Covenant), the lawyer associates the Abrahamic Covenant with redemption/salvation/eternal life, thus implying the Abrahamic Covenant is a covenant of salvation.
8. In response to his question Rabbi Jesus directs him to the Law of Moses and asks his understanding to answer his question.
9. The man quotes the tallest Scripture in the Bible, that of Deuteronomy 6:5 and in doing so equates salvation to loving God and fellow covenant members (Jews commanded to love Jews - God never commanded the children of Israel to love non-Jews or Gentiles) found in Leviticus 19:18-19.
10. Jesus commends the man for answering his own question correctly thereby enforcing the man's teaching and belief about the Law, inheritance, and love.
11. Jesus then instructs the man to continue in DOING (observing in obedience) the Torah and the result will be acquisition/fulfillment of his inheritance resulting in eternal life.
12. Take away? To the Hebrew in covenant their obedience to love God and their fellow covenant member is the fulfilling of all the Law which will result in eternal life.

How about you, Behold? What is written in the law? how readest thou? How does one according to Jesus inherit eternal life?

 

[Behold]

How about you, Behold? What is written in the law? how readest thou? How does one according to Jesus inherit eternal life?

Here is what Paul teaches.

"Jesus has redeemed (the born again) from the CURSE of THE LAW".....

"Jesus is the END... OF>.. THE... LAW....,for righteousness, to everyone who BELIEVES">..

Here is what Paul teaches.

The born again, are ,,.."NOT Under THE LAW.... but under Grace".

Now, you are not going to understand any of this, @jeremiah1five .., and there is a specific reason for that, and you need to resolve it, asap.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Here is what Paul teaches.

"Jesus has redeemed (the born again) from the CURSE of THE LAW".....

So, Jesus directed the man to a curse? How disingenuous and deceitful Jesus was to send and direct the man to a cursed thing.

"Jesus is the END... OF>.. THE... LAW....,for righteousness, to everyone who BELIEVES">..

Yes, but that doesn't mean "end" as in "abolish." The Law still serves a function to the Hebrew people to whom it was given. Gentiles were never given the Law nor were they ever "under" the Law.

Here is what Paul teaches.

The born again, are ,,.."NOT Under THE LAW.... but under Grace".

The subject matter behind Saul's statement is "sin." The whole discussion revolves around "sin." So, take his words "you are not under the Law but under grace" in context to this truth. It all has to do with sin.

Now, you are not going to understand any of this, @jeremiah1five .., and there is a specific reason for that, and you need to resolve it, asap.

I am not infected with the Constantinian Gentile church theology. I am a BIBLICAL Christian, and I don't add to the bible. I have all my doctrine worked out in accordance with Scripture. I am not under the bondage of Gentile heresy and lies.

 

[dwight92070]

Jeremiah1five's doctrine is an unBiblical mix of Judaiism, racism, hatred for Gentiles (whether Christian or not), a false understanding of the covenants, the Law, the gospel, the apostles, and Jesus Himself. In other words, it's a different and distorted gospel that Paul warned about in Galatians 1:6-9.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Jeremiah1five's doctrine is an unBiblical mix of Judaiism, racism, hatred for Gentiles (whether Christian or not), a false understanding of the covenants, the Law, the gospel, the apostles, and Jesus Himself. In other words, it's a different and distorted gospel that Paul warned about in Galatians 1:6-9.

Don't accuse.
Bring the Word of God against what I say.