The Grace of God : Is the Cross of Christ

[Behold]

How to understand the Grace of God, as the Cross of Christ....

A.) = Just like that.


In other words...

Christ on the Cross, is God manifested in the Flesh on the Cross, who said... before He died....."IT" "is finished".

See that "IT"?

A born again believer has to understand that "IT", as that "IT", is Salvation, Grace, and Redemption..... all of these.
That "IT" is the New Testament and the New Covenant.

So, lets say you are teaching a Sunday School Class,

Explain it like this...

1.) God became a man, the Virgin born Jesus, and He lived a perfect life, sin free. He then offers this LIFE to God, as a Sacrifice on The Cross for the "world". That's EVERYONE. John 3:16.
This Sacrifice is what God accepts, on our Behalf, to accept us., and God accepts nothing else. John 14:6

This is "the Gift of Salvation".
This is Christ on the Cross.

2.) Its literally, God dying as a man on the Cross, and this life He lived as sinless Jesus, is exchanged for our SIN, and Jesus becomes our sin on the Cross.... and its dealt with there, forever,...... and we become by this substitution, "the righteousness of God, in Christ".
Jesus becomes our sin and dies for it, and we become forgiven and now possess "Christ's Righteousness".

3.) Totally simplified : Christ becomes our sin, and we become as if we have lived the sinless life that Christ lived... given to us AS : "The Gift of Salvation, and "The Gift of Righteousness". This is what it means to be a Born Again CHRISTian.

4.) So, when we understand that we are become "the righteousness of God in Christ", we have "worked out our Salvation"", by understanding what we have Eternally become as a "NEW Creation, in Christ".

This is what it means to be "Born Again"... "IN Christ" as "One with God".

 

[Doug Brents]

4.) So, when we understand that we are become "the righteousness of God in Christ", we have "worked out our Salvation"", by understanding what we have Eternally become as a "NEW Creation, in Christ".

This is what it means to be "Born Again"... "IN Christ" as "One with God".

Yes, we become the righteousness of God when we are in Christ, but just the understanding of these facts is not what it means to be Born Again. The demons understand these facts, but they are not saved. And many will think they are saved because of the long life full of working for God, but God will tell them "I NEVER knew you." (Matt 7:23) Just because you know God does not mean that He knows you (Gal 4:9). To be in Christ and one with God requires faith (Gal 3:26-27, Rom :3-4, Col 2-11-14, Heb 11:6), and faith without action is dead and worthless (James 2:26).

 

[Diserner]

See that "IT"?

The potentiality of the atonement worked out in Christ, the price of sins which is the full wrath of God paid in him.

But this is not the outworking that is finished, people confuse that, it is "the source of salvation for all who believe."

 

[civic]

How to understand the Grace of God, as the Cross of Christ....

A.) = Just like that.


In other words...

Christ on the Cross, is God manifested in the Flesh on the Cross, who said... before He died....."IT" "is finished".

See that "IT"?

A born again believer has to understand that "IT", as that "IT", is Salvation, Grace, and Redemption..... all of these.
That "IT" is the New Testament and the New Covenant.

So, lets say you are teaching a Sunday School Class,

Explain it like this...

1.) God became a man, the Virgin born Jesus, and He lived a perfect life, sin free. He then offers this LIFE to God, as a Sacrifice on The Cross for the "world". That's EVERYONE. John 3:16.
This Sacrifice is what God accepts, on our Behalf, to accept us., and God accepts nothing else. John 14:6

This is "the Gift of Salvation".
This is Christ on the Cross.

2.) Its literally, God dying as a man on the Cross, and this life He lived as sinless Jesus, is exchanged for our SIN, and Jesus becomes our sin on the Cross.... and its dealt with there, forever,...... and we become by this substitution, "the righteousness of God, in Christ".
Jesus becomes our sin and dies for it, and we become forgiven and now possess "Christ's Righteousness".

3.) Totally simplified : Christ becomes our sin, and we become as if we have lived the sinless life that Christ lived... given to us AS : "The Gift of Salvation, and "The Gift of Righteousness". This is what it means to be a Born Again CHRISTian.

4.) So, when we understand that we are become "the righteousness of God in Christ", we have "worked out our Salvation"", by understanding what we have Eternally become as a "NEW Creation, in Christ".

This is what it means to be "Born Again"... "IN Christ" as "One with God".

But wait a minute you left out the most essential part of the Atonement with PSA advocates that the Father was angry at the Son and appeased with wrath/anger/retribution,vengeance ( all mean wrath) with the Father punishing and killing His Son. If you don't believe that according to most of them you are not saved. You must believe in the cosmic child abuser who killed his son because of anger, wrath, retribution etc..... straight out of paganism, greek philosophy, and what they did with their children sacrificing them to Moleck in the OT. They want to accuse God of what He condemned and wiped out those people for in the OT and said that those thoughts of their barbaric acts never crossed His mind.

 

[Diserner]

Atonement with PSA advocates

I guess sin has no real price tag, and God is just to put his wrath on sinners but not their substitute.

And how does that make ANY sense?

Might as well be a universalist if you want to just go by emotions.

 

[civic]

I guess sin has no real price tag, and God is just to put his wrath on sinners but not their substitute.

And how does that make ANY sense?

Might as well be a universalist if you want to just go by emotions.

Sure it does Jesus died for it by the hands of wicked men, was punished by them, tortured, mocked and crucified by them for our sins.

 

[Diserner]

anger, wrath, retribution etc..... straight out of paganism, greek philosophy,

Here's a good doctrine for you:

 

[Diserner]

Sure it does Jesus died for it by the hands of wicked men, was punished by them, tortured, mocked and crucified by them for our sins.

So it's not cruel for a father to throw their son to a bunch of thugs to torture him to death?

How is that any different in principle?!! That's not child abuse?!

Not thinking clearly here.

 

[civic]

So it's not cruel for a father to throw their son to a bunch of thugs to torture him to death?

How is that any different in principle?!! That's not child abuse?!

Not thinking clearly here.

you sound just like the old guys on the old forum who were calvinists objecting in the same way. its a strawman. the wages of sin is death. if you reject Christ and the gospel then thats the consequences.

Christ was not guilty of sin. You cannot compare Him to a a reprobate who hates God. That is absurd.

 

[Anja]

Sure it does Jesus died for it by the hands of wicked men, was punished by them, tortured, mocked and crucified by them for our sins.

It's like that's not enough, If you don't pour a little bit of God's Wrath on top of that then how can he pay for our sins? It's like, so one member of the trinity killed off another member of the trinity. How's that work?

 

[civic]

It's like that's not enough, If you don't pour a little bit of God's Wrath on top of that then how can he pay for our sins? It's like, so one member of the trinity killed off another member of the trinity. How's that work?

Yes you have God at war with Himself kind of schizoid. Instead of calling Him a Tri-Unity- every theory of the atonement except PSA has unity in the Godhead. PSA should call their god Dis-Unity and forget about Tri-Unity- Its a dysfunctional doctrine pitting one person in the Trinity against the other by punishing and killing the other. I can quote several calvinist theologians who teach the Father killed the Son.

 

[Behold]

Yes, we become the righteousness of God when we are in Christ, but just the understanding of these facts is not what it means to be Born Again.

Doug,

You can't be "in Christ" and not be born again.
You can't be born again and not be saved.

See, to be "in Christ', is to be born again SPIRITUALLY, as that is why the Born again Spirit is "In Christ' and "One with God"
This is why ALL the born again are "Seated in Heavenly places" (right now) = "IN Christ".
Having been "Translated from Darkness (unbelief) to LIGHT" = are now in the KOG.

This SALVATiON is not what you DO, its what God has caused to Happen, and will complete.

Philippians 1:6

 

[Diserner]

Christ was not guilty of sin. You cannot compare Him to a a reprobate who hates God. That is absurd.

Christ took my place.

That is his prerogative as my Creator and Judge.

Stop calling the Gospel absurd.

For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom (1 Cor. 1:25 NET)

 

[Diserner]

You must believe in the cosmic child abuser who killed his son because of anger

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/child-abuse-forcing-a-negative-framework-to-make-something-sound-bad.622/

 

[Doug Brents]

Doug,

You can't be "in Christ" and not be born again.
You can't be born again and not be saved.

See, to be "in Christ', is to be born again SPIRITUALLY, as that is why the Born again Spirit is "In Christ' and "One with God"
This is why ALL the born again are "Seated in Heavenly places" (right now) = "IN Christ".
Having been "Translated from Darkness (unbelief) to LIGHT" = are now in the KOG.

This is correct, but that is not what I was talking about. You said, "So, when we understand that we are become "the righteousness of God in Christ", we have "worked out our Salvation"", by understanding what we have Eternally become as a "NEW Creation, in Christ"."
But just understanding that is NOT what makes us born again and thus in Christ.
To be in Christ and one with God requires faith (Gal 3:26-27, Rom :3-4, Col 2-11-14, Heb 11:6), and faith without action is dead and worthless (James 2:26).

This SALVATiON is not what you DO, its what God has caused to Happen, and will complete.


Philippians 1:6

You are partially correct. As Col 2:11-14 and Rom 6:1-4 tell us, it is the Holy Spirit that does the cleansing work and unites us with Christ, but He does that DURING baptism (water baptism as stated in 1 Pet 3:21 and John 3:5, and depicted in Acts 8:36).

 

[Behold]

To be in Christ and one with God requires faith .

'Here is what im showing you.

There is Salvation......
A.) God provided HIM, 2000 yrs ago on the Cross.

If you are born again then you have God's Salvation.
You didnt do it, you didnt cause it, ... Its God's to GIVE< as "the gift of Salvation".

"faith is counted as (Christ's) Righteousness" that is the "imputed righteousness" of God. This is the '"Gift of Righteousness"

Now, if you have it ...SALVATION>...., you are to "work it out".
THat does not mean to try to KEEP from losing it.., as you already have it, if you are born again "in Christ"

So, to "work it out" means to understand whom you have become as a "new Creation In Christ', AS "the righteousness of God in Christ".

What is that revelation?
Its to simply always see yourself as God sees you, and He sees us as a Born again Spirit, "in Christ", "One with God".

See, your body "is dead because of sin", and you'll get a new one if you are born again.
Your MIND is not born again, and it has to be 'renewed", and its this RENEWING of your mind, that is the Knowledge of God, that is HOW, you "work out your salvation".

 

[Doug Brents]

'Here is what im showing you.

There is Salvation......
A.) God provided HIM, 2000 yrs ago on the Cross.

If you are born again then you have God's Salvation.
You didnt do it, you didnt cause it, ... Its God's to GIVE< as "the gift of Salvation".

"faith is counted as (Christ's) Righteousness" that is the "imputed righteousness" of God. This is the '"Gift of Righteousness"

Now, if you have it ...SALVATION>...., you are to "work it out".
THat does not mean to try to KEEP from losing it.., as you already have it, if you are born again "in Christ"

So, to "work it out" means to understand whom you have become as a "new Creation In Christ', AS "the righteousness of God in Christ".

What is that revelation?
Its to simply always see yourself as God sees you, and He sees us as a Born again Spirit, "in Christ", "One with God".

See, your body "is dead because of sin", and you'll get a new one if you are born again.
Your MIND is not born again, and it has to be 'renewed", and its this RENEWING of your mind, that is the Knowledge of God, that is HOW, you "work out your salvation".

You are leaping from "dead in sin" to "alive in Christ" without addressing the point at which we change from one to the other. That is what I am pointing to.

Yes, God provided Jesus (our salvation) 2000 years ago (really almost 6000 years ago, as He gave Him before the foundation of the world).
And yes, if you are born again then you have God's salvation that we didn't cause, or earn, or coerce.
Yet, between these is the point at which we are resurrected and become "in Christ". This happens when we are baptized (Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-4) and that baptism must be in water (John 3:5, 1 Pet 3:21).

 

[Behold]

You are leaping from "dead in sin" to "alive in Christ" This happens when we are baptized (Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-4) and that baptism must be in water (John 3:5, 1 Pet 3:21).

You are a Catholic or a JW, .. right? ??????????
As only a water cult member has been taught that water is a part of Salvation, or as a part of redemption, or the "new birth".

Water baptism... gets you wet.
Nothing else.
Its Symbolic of being born again, risen with Christ, having passed from Death to Life.

Listen.

Every born again person, is "in Christ". That's not a proces, thats a spiritual birth that is caused, not by water.. {"but by my Spirit sayeth the Lord".)
Its God's Holy Spirt that BIRTHS the spirit in a Believer, as born again.

Water can't do that, as water is only water, no matter if its in your toilet, your baptism pool, or in your fish bowl, or coming out of your shower head.

 

[Doug Brents]

You are a Catholic or a JW, .. right? ??????????
As only a water cult member has been taught that water is a part of Salvation, or as a part of redemption, or the "new birth".

No, I am not part of either of those (or any other) cults.

Water baptism... gets you wet.
Nothing else.
Its Symbolic of being born again, risen with Christ, having passed from Death to Life.

That is not what 1 Pet 3:21, John 3:5, Acts 8:36, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Mark 16:16, Rom 6:1-4 and Col 2:1-14 say. They are very clear that water is part of the baptism that saves us, and without passing through the water we are not in Christ, nor have we passed from death to life.

Listen.

Every born again person, is "in Christ". That's not a proces, thats a spiritual birth that is caused, not by water.. {"but by my Spirit sayeth the Lord".)
Its God's Holy Spirt that BIRTHS the spirit in a Believer, as born again.

Water can't do that, as water is only water, no matter if its in your toilet, your baptism pool, or in your fish bowl, or coming out of your shower head.

That is not what Peter told them Jews on Pentecost, nor what Phillip taught the Ethiopian Eunuch, nor what Ananias told Saul, nor what Jesus told Nicodemus, nor what Paul wrote to the saints in Rome and Colossi. It is during baptism (which requires water, not Spirit baptism) that the Holy Spirit circumcises our heart, removes our sin, unites us with Jesus' death and resurrection, and makes us a new creature.

 

[Behold]

No, I am not part of either of those (or any other) cults.

Excellent.
Never be a member of a "water cult".

They are very clear that water is part of the baptism that saves us, and without passing through the water we are not in Christ,

That's water cult teaching, as all water cults change the Holy Spirit Baptism, into water baptism... as you've been led to believe by a water cult.

Im not the first to point out to you that the dying Thief, who is in heaven right now, was not water baptized.

Also, id say that you teach "Acts 2:38" as The Gospel.
Right?
That's your "church" that teaches that, and you have a hand full of verses that they taught you to use.....
Sure.
Well, did you notice that in the upper room, during the Feast of Pentecost, non of the 120 was water baptized, and neither was Peter.

Read your bible.....It has some things for you to learn.