The Gospel Of Salvation

[jeremiah1five]

God saw His Covenant People Dead in Sin, why you think He sent Christ to redeem thm ?

He sent Christ to redeem them who was deemed by God before He created heaven, earth, and man. I told you God cannot reduplicate Himself in Himself and this went right over your head. This means that before creation there was nothing but God. Can you imagine it? It's very difficult but one can see the shadow and not the reality which exudes the shadow. Isaiah says, "there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to No One. With this in hand one can see that if God wanted to create a being such as man, He could not do it in Himself since there is only Him existing. So, to do this required Him to create heaven and earth - creation/universe.

Consider it His petri dish - creation. And now that He created the universe, He can now create man with the end purpose of bringing man to His level of eternity, holiness, and righteousness that He possesses. But He could not create man holy, sinless, or righteous. He could only create man "sinful" or as the word is defined, "missing the mark." What is this "mark"? The standard of God Himself. He could not reduplicate Himself in order for this being to exist at His level (Isaiah's second truth: "there is NONE like Him.") So, with the universe as His petri dish He can now create man but man in his existence would be created fallen short of His glory (Isaiah's third truth: "He gives His glory to No One.") and this means the man would be fallen short of His perfect, holy glory.

The plan is to bring man to His level of existence that He can comfortably accept when standing next to Him (Isaiah's first truth: "there is only One God.") This is why the man sinned. It was because he was created fallen short of the glory of God. The word for this is "sinful" (missing the mark.) This plan required a sacrifice, but a sacrifice that would be joined to the man enough that this puny, sinful man could exist alongside a perfect, holy, and righteous God. But man's redemption is not in the hand of man to perform or accomplish. Salvation/redemption is totally in the hand of God and this destroys the false belief I have been posting against with regard to Romans 10:9-10 NOT being a salvation formula because it takes away from a Sovereign God to prerogative of who He chooses to save and those He chooses not to save. But He has made it so that a people can be saved, and that people are the Hebrew people and only through covenant. This excludes non-Hebrew Gentiles. God's plan and Scripture, Jesus said, cannot be broken. The man ordained to salvation is passive in this redemption for God has already deemed a people to salvation and that people's names are written in His book of life and that book is Jesus Christ, Israel's Savior, Lord, and King. And He does this through covenant (promises.) But this people are sinful and cannot on their own stand without blame before a Holy God. There must be a Mediator who can bridge this awesome gap. Man (Adam) sinned because he was created a sinner (fallen short/sinful) but this began in time God's plan of redemption for these named and ordained individuals in His "book" of life. God is not waiting around to see who will accept Jesus (confess with their mouth, etc.), God is actively taking out a people for Himself. And, sorry to say, but this includes the Hebrew seed of Abraham excluding anyone who is not Abraham's seed (Gen. 17:6-7.)

In order to do this (create man and make man able to stand before His awesome Presence) there needed to be a Mediator, One who would pay the penalty for sin and sinfulness in God's creation. God's own Son (of the Trinity) was called upon to do this. Sacrifice, substitutionary sacrifice was used to perform bringing man far enough to God's level so that God can later do away with time and space (universe) and His creation (man) capable of existing on an eternal level with God. Have you ever heard of "hid in Christ"? It doesn't mean "hid in Jesus", but hid in Christ (Heb. "anointing", referring to His Spirit (third Person of Trinity.) I have such a very high view of God, even higher than what others see of God that agrees with what Habakkuk said, "Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, And canst not look on iniquity" and that's what man is in His sight which when a substitution is intervening between both He and us we become bearable in His sight but only through Christ ("anointing"/Spirit.) God can only experience us as saved individuals through Christ, and we experience God through Christ. God doesn't see us directly but through His Son while we are hid in Christ. Even as saved and converted individuals we cannot look upon God directly or we die. We can only do this through Christ. Now, I said all this in order to say again the following. From God's plan-ful perspective He contemplated us as saved, redeemed, holy, and sinless individuals. He's never seen us as dead or sinful. It's impossible for God to contemplate us in this condition because before God created heaven, earth, and man He sacrificed a lamb in the heavenly Tabernacle and then went about with this end result in mind as He created everything which is the universe.
"Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, And canst not look on iniquity."

And that is why I say God never seen us as sinners or dead in trespass and sin. That is the human perspective of ourselves towards ourselves. We are in the gutter and we see ourselves in the gutter, but not God. He never contemplated us as such. Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, And canst not look on iniquity. If you want to fault me for having such an exalted view of God, then so be it. But that just so happens how high a view I have of my God.

 

[brightfame52]

@jeremiah1five

He sent Christ to redeem them who was deemed by God before He created heaven, earth, and man. I told you God cannot reduplicate Himself in Himself and this went right over your head. This means that before creation there was nothing but God. Can you imagine it? It's very difficult but one can see the shadow and not the reality which exudes the shadow. Isaiah says, "there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to No One. With this in hand one can see that if God wanted to create a being such as man, He could not do it in Himself since there is only Him existing. So, to do this required Him to create heaven and earth - creation/universe.

God saw His Covenant People Dead in Sin, why you think He sent Christ to redeem them ?

Also and more importantly, you deny the Gospel and the atoning death of Christ because you make ethnic distinctions in the New Covenant economy, which the atoning death of Christ abolished according to Paul Eph 2:11-22


11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him[Christ] we both[jew/gentile] have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Commentary:

Gentiles who believe the gospel become "fellow heirs" with the faithful Jews. They do not make up a separate body, but they become "fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ by the gospel ..." Eph. 3:6. The Gentiles, "being a wild olive tree, were graffed in among them [the Jews], and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree . . . " Rom. 11:17. Once "aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise," the Gentiles are "made nigh by the blood of Christ." Eph. 2:12, 13. Being now children of Abraham, part of the commonwealth of Israel and partakers of God's promises to Israel, believing Gentiles make up "the house of Israel" to whom the new covenant promise is given:

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put My laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to Me a people . . . Heb. 8:10.

The Israel of God are all those who are in Jesus Christ, the Seed of Abraham, the King of the Jews, the One to whom the promises were made. And in Jesus Christ all national distinctions are broken down. ". . . there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek . . ." Rom. 10:12."... ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal. 3:28. "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism . . ." Eph 4:4,5. Therefore, in the things of the gospel any national distinctions deny the reality of the atonement of Jesus Christ (Eph. 2:14-17) and are a Judaizing perversion of the New Testament message. https://www.presenttruthmag.com/archive/XIV/14-8.htm

 

[brightfame52]

He sent Christ to redeem them who was deemed by God before He created heaven, earth, and man. I told you God cannot reduplicate Himself in Himself and this went right over your head. This means that before creation there was nothing but God. Can you imagine it? It's very difficult but one can see the shadow and not the reality which exudes the shadow. Isaiah says, "there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to No One. With this in hand one can see that if God wanted to create a being such as man, He could not do it in Himself since there is only Him existing. So, to do this required Him to create heaven and earth - creation/universe.

Consider it His petri dish - creation. And now that He created the universe, He can now create man with the end purpose of bringing man to His level of eternity, holiness, and righteousness that He possesses. But He could not create man holy, sinless, or righteous. He could only create man "sinful" or as the word is defined, "missing the mark." What is this "mark"? The standard of God Himself. He could not reduplicate Himself in order for this being to exist at His level (Isaiah's second truth: "there is NONE like Him.") So, with the universe as His petri dish He can now create man but man in his existence would be created fallen short of His glory (Isaiah's third truth: "He gives His glory to No One.") and this means the man would be fallen short of His perfect, holy glory.

The plan is to bring man to His level of existence that He can comfortably accept when standing next to Him (Isaiah's first truth: "there is only One God.") This is why the man sinned. It was because he was created fallen short of the glory of God. The word for this is "sinful" (missing the mark.) This plan required a sacrifice, but a sacrifice that would be joined to the man enough that this puny, sinful man could exist alongside a perfect, holy, and righteous God. But man's redemption is not in the hand of man to perform or accomplish. Salvation/redemption is totally in the hand of God and this destroys the false belief I have been posting against with regard to Romans 10:9-10 NOT being a salvation formula because it takes away from a Sovereign God to prerogative of who He chooses to save and those He chooses not to save. But He has made it so that a people can be saved, and that people are the Hebrew people and only through covenant. This excludes non-Hebrew Gentiles. God's plan and Scripture, Jesus said, cannot be broken. The man ordained to salvation is passive in this redemption for God has already deemed a people to salvation and that people's names are written in His book of life and that book is Jesus Christ, Israel's Savior, Lord, and King. And He does this through covenant (promises.) But this people are sinful and cannot on their own stand without blame before a Holy God. There must be a Mediator who can bridge this awesome gap. Man (Adam) sinned because he was created a sinner (fallen short/sinful) but this began in time God's plan of redemption for these named and ordained individuals in His "book" of life. God is not waiting around to see who will accept Jesus (confess with their mouth, etc.), God is actively taking out a people for Himself. And, sorry to say, but this includes the Hebrew seed of Abraham excluding anyone who is not Abraham's seed (Gen. 17:6-7.)

In order to do this (create man and make man able to stand before His awesome Presence) there needed to be a Mediator, One who would pay the penalty for sin and sinfulness in God's creation. God's own Son (of the Trinity) was called upon to do this. Sacrifice, substitutionary sacrifice was used to perform bringing man far enough to God's level so that God can later do away with time and space (universe) and His creation (man) capable of existing on an eternal level with God. Have you ever heard of "hid in Christ"? It doesn't mean "hid in Jesus", but hid in Christ (Heb. "anointing", referring to His Spirit (third Person of Trinity.) I have such a very high view of God, even higher than what others see of God that agrees with what Habakkuk said, "Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, And canst not look on iniquity" and that's what man is in His sight which when a substitution is intervening between both He and us we become bearable in His sight but only through Christ ("anointing"/Spirit.) God can only experience us as saved individuals through Christ, and we experience God through Christ. God doesn't see us directly but through His Son while we are hid in Christ. Even as saved and converted individuals we cannot look upon God directly or we die. We can only do this through Christ. Now, I said all this in order to say again the following. From God's plan-ful perspective He contemplated us as saved, redeemed, holy, and sinless individuals. He's never seen us as dead or sinful. It's impossible for God to contemplate us in this condition because before God created heaven, earth, and man He sacrificed a lamb in the heavenly Tabernacle and then went about with this end result in mind as He created everything which is the universe.
"Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, And canst not look on iniquity."

And that is why I say God never seen us as sinners or dead in trespass and sin. That is the human perspective of ourselves towards ourselves. We are in the gutter and we see ourselves in the gutter, but not God. He never contemplated us as such. Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, And canst not look on iniquity. If you want to fault me for having such an exalted view of God, then so be it. But that just so happens how high a view I have of my God.

God saw His Covenant People Dead in Sin, why you think He sent Christ to redeem them ?

 

[jeremiah1five]

God saw His Covenant People Dead in Sin, why you think He sent Christ to redeem them ?

Understand that when God contemplated to create a being (humans) that God can only contemplate them as saved and holy individuals. He knew their creation would be fallen short of His glory (the word for that is "sin"), because there is only One God, there is None like Him, and He gives His glory to No One. To say God saw this creation as dead lowers the holiness of God to the level of man. Life begets life. Life does not beget death. But you choose to believe that a Living God can allow death and sin to occupy His thoughts thereby reducing God to the level of men who in reality are dead by virtue of their creation. He left the rest unatoned and not part of His thoughts.

From the perspective of non-elect in time:

17 All nations before him are as nothing; And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

God, who fills all things, cannot contemplate nothing and vanity. You assign God a position in which although man is dead in trespasses and sin, that God allows such thinking of man to garner His attention which violates the prophets words:

13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, And canst not look on iniquity:
Hab 1:13.

According to you, you have God not only contemplating sin and death upon His elect but that His purity is soiled by your having God to look upon evil and iniquity.

I don't. God doesn't see His elect as evil and iniquity-laden. But your position is that He does and not only that but that it doesn't offend Him, that His eyes are not of a pure sort.

 

[brightfame52]

Understand that when God contemplated to create a being (humans) that God can only contemplate them as saved and holy individuals. He knew their creation would be fallen short of His glory (the word for that is "sin"), because there is only One God, there is None like Him, and He gives His glory to No One. To say God saw this creation as dead lowers the holiness of God to the level of man. Life begets life. Life does not beget death. But you choose to believe that a Living God can allow death and sin to occupy His thoughts thereby reducing God to the level of men who in reality are dead by virtue of their creation. He left the rest unatoned and not part of His thoughts.

From the perspective of non-elect in time:

17 All nations before him are as nothing; And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

God, who fills all things, cannot contemplate nothing and vanity. You assign God a position in which although man is dead in trespasses and sin, that God allows such thinking of man to garner His attention which violates the prophets words:

13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, And canst not look on iniquity:
Hab 1:13.

According to you, you have God not only contemplating sin and death upon His elect but that His purity is soiled by your having God to look upon evil and iniquity.

I don't. God doesn't see His elect as evil and iniquity-laden. But your position is that He does and not only that but that it doesn't offend Him, that His eyes are not of a pure sort.

God saw His Covenant People Dead in Sin, why you think He sent Christ to redeem them ? Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we[The elect] were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

 

[jeremiah1five]

God saw His Covenant People Dead in Sin, why you think He sent Christ to redeem them ? Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we[The elect] were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

First, God knows that there is only ONE God, and second, that man would be created sinful Meaning "missing the mark" of His Deific glory because it is impossible for God to reduplicate Himself in man meaning man would not possess any Deific nature or attributes by virtue of his creation by God from dirt.

The Scripture says - and you ignore its reference - that God cannot look upon sin and iniquity and evil.

13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, And canst not look on iniquity: Hab. 1:13.

The Scripture says God CANST NOT look upon evil nor iniquity, so your interpretation here as in other places is IN ERROR.

In God's plan for His redeemed people God sees them as holy and righteous and sinless, exactly the way He contemplated them and sees them as such throughout human history.

Take and believe God's Word through Habakkuk that God does not see the evil or iniquity of His sinful people, but only throughout all time He sees His elect people Israel as a saved and redeemed and sinless people. You are looking and interpreting the eternal through temporal (man's) eyes. Try looking at things the way God sees them.

Like I do.

 

[DavidTree]

And Resurrection

JACKPOT

 

[DavidTree]

The true gospel of salvation is tied up into one fact: God's covenants with the Hebrew people.

The FACT is that Elohim decided to create a flesh nation called Israel by which HE established the Old Covenant and by which the "LIGHT of the Gentiles" would come into the world thru the physical seed of Abraham.

The TRUE Eternal Gospel is in the Promised Seed, which is YHWH YAHshuah HaMashiach who shed His Blood as the:
Pesach LAMB who takes away the sins of all nations/world.


“Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?
11Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15that whoever believes in Him should [c]not perish but have eternal life. 16For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

 

[brightfame52]

First, God knows that there is only ONE God, and second, that man would be created sinful Meaning "missing the mark" of His Deific glory because it is impossible for God to reduplicate Himself in man meaning man would not possess any Deific nature or attributes by virtue of his creation by God from dirt.

The Scripture says - and you ignore its reference - that God cannot look upon sin and iniquity and evil.

13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, And canst not look on iniquity: Hab. 1:13.

The Scripture says God CANST NOT look upon evil nor iniquity, so your interpretation here as in other places is IN ERROR.

In God's plan for His redeemed people God sees them as holy and righteous and sinless, exactly the way He contemplated them and sees them as such throughout human history.

Take and believe God's Word through Habakkuk that God does not see the evil or iniquity of His sinful people, but only throughout all time He sees His elect people Israel as a saved and redeemed and sinless people. You are looking and interpreting the eternal through temporal (man's) eyes. Try looking at things the way God sees them.

Like I do.

God saw His Covenant People Dead in Sin, why you think He sent Christ to redeem them ? Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we[The elect] were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

 

[jeremiah1five]

The FACT is that Elohim decided to create a flesh nation called Israel by which HE established the Old Covenant and by which the "LIGHT of the Gentiles" would come into the world thru the physical seed of Abraham.

The TRUE Eternal Gospel is in the Promised Seed, which is YHWH YAHshuah HaMashiach who shed His Blood as the:
Pesach LAMB who takes away the sins of all nations/world.


“Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?
11Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15that whoever believes in Him should [c]not perish but have eternal life. 16For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

So, God wasn't speaking to Abram when He made His covenant with Him? God was being disingenuous by addressing Abram and that he would have a son who would be heir of the promises God made?

When you try to separate God from Abram and say God was actually speaking of one of his descendants who would be recipient of His promises (Jesus), then you destroy every meaning of Messiah that is wrapped around the birth of Isaac.

First, God and Abram were in relationship. Abram was a worshiper of God. Abram's bloodline was a family of obedient "seed of the woman" that existed in the world alongside the "seed of the serpent" who were a disobedient people (Gen. 11:1-4) who travelled as one people and remained in one place and decided to build a tower whose ceiling was a corrupt rendering of the "Star Bible" prophecies God placed in the heavens (Psalm 19.)
This was where astrology was born. Yes, there is such a thing as the "Gospel in the stars" that was a pictorial prophecy of Messiah and Redeemer who was to come.

Beginning in Genesis 11:10 is a record of Abram's family through Shem, one of Noah's three sons. This family line was obedient to God. The families that were born to Ham and Japheth were not and they were the line from whom Nimrod would be born. It was during the lifetime of Salah that the "earth was divided" between the "seed of the woman" and the seed of the serpent" (Gen. 10:25.) And notice the word "nations" in chapter 10. Later, this word "goy" would come to identify non-Hebrew Gentiles, but the word is defined by Strong as "massing" and it is used to reference peoples. Example:

32 These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood. Gen. 10:32.

nations: "gôy" [#1471] rarely (shortened) goy, go’-ee; apparently from the same root as [#1465] (gevah) (in the sense of massing)

It was after God established covenant with Abram with the sign of circumcision when the word began to be used to identify non-circumcised people or "Gentiles."

The whole question that Abram posed to God had to do with having a son who would be heir of all he possessed. And he owned a great deal of possessions. This is when God makes an astounding promise that Sarai, his wife, would have a son in her old age of 80. This miraculous birth of Isaac would be a forerunner of another miraculous birth from a virgin named Mary whose son was the fulfillment of the promise God made in the Garden of "seed of a woman" that would bruise 'the head of the serpent.' So, although you want to place all emphasis on Jesus of Nazareth you can't "get there" without acknowledging the birth of Isaac. And this alone is an exhaustive bible study. There is nothing in the Abraham Covenant of any "spiritual" mention in any context of the promises God made to Abram. The mentioning of "spiritual" came much later. Actually, it came at the time of Moses. But for all intents and purposes all Abraham knew was of a physical seed that would be born to him and Sarah. And for hundreds of years - even past the prophecy of God about his physical seed being afflicted as a stranger in a foreign land - the promise of that day was about a physical heir and heirs.

 

[brightfame52]

@jeremiah1five

When you try to separate God from Abram and say God was actually speaking of one of his descendants who would be recipient of His promises (Jesus), then you destroy every meaning of Messiah that is wrapped around the birth of Isaac.

He was speaking of Christ Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And Christ here is Christ Mystically in Union with His Body the Church, He being the Head. This is the Mystery Eph 3:9

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world[Adam] hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

 

[DavidTree]

So, God wasn't speaking to Abram when He made His covenant with Him? God was being disingenuous by addressing Abram and that he would have a son who would be heir of the promises God made?

Abram's name was changed to Abraham by Elohimfor this reason = Elohim said HE would make 'Abraham a father of nations"

The only WAY Elohim did this was by preaching the Gospel to and thru Abraham.

Elohim did fulfill His promise to Abraham in YAHshua HaMashiach.

The Promised SEED is YAHshua and the "stars of heaven" are those in YAHshua

 

[jeremiah1five]

God saw His Covenant People Dead in Sin, why you think He sent Christ to redeem them ? Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we[The elect] were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Saul writes from the perspective of time.

There are two perspectives to look out for in Scripture: God's eternal perspective in which when He contemplated His elect people they were contemplated as saved individuals. If you say otherwise - which is what you're doing - then you are saying there is death in God and there is sin in God and His eyes are not of a purer sort to see His contemplated people as saved, holy, and righteous.

God may have acknowledged that in creating man He was creating a sinful being, but that's not how He contemplated His elect people in His Mind. His Mind does not see death or sin. He treats His people in time one way which is from their perspective...

"I am a sinner in need of a Savior..."

and

"I was saved, I am saved, I will be saved. That is the totality of past, present, and future. And that is the perspective living in time which teaches Christ Jesus, yesterday, today and forever. So, yes, Christ was prepared a body in time who was from eternity in order to save those in time in order to bring them back into eternity.

Back into eternity?

Yes, that's exactly how God contemplated them, from His Holiness and Righteousness, and Sinlessness.

It is only when you learn to see as God sees then tyour doctrine on the subject will be in compliance with Scripture and reason.

 

[jeremiah1five]

@jeremiah1five



He was speaking of Christ Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And Christ here is Christ Mystically in Union with His Body the Church, He being the Head. This is the Mystery Eph 3:9

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world[Adam] hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Get a clue:

"...to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee" Gen. 17:7.

"Seed" is in the singular referring to Isaac, not Christ.

"Thy seed" is possessive meaning "Isaac."

God was dealing with Abraham in the present day in which he lived, and the seed is identified to when he asked God for a child - SINGULAR - who would inherit his present possessions.

Isaac.

Sarah didn't give birth to Jesus, she gave birth to Isaac.

You can be too spiritually minded that you're no earthly-good.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Abram's name was changed to Abraham by Elohimfor this reason = Elohim said HE would make 'Abraham a father of nations"

The only WAY Elohim did this was by preaching the Gospel to and thru Abraham.

And what "gospel" did Abraham preach? Scripture, please.

Elohim did fulfill His promise to Abraham in YAHshua HaMashiach.

The Promised SEED is YAHshua and the "stars of heaven" are those in YAHshua

The promised seed was the physical birth of Isaac. Stay in context, please.

 

[brightfame52]

@jeremiah1five

Saul writes from the perspective of time.

God saw His Covenant People Dead, affected by the Fall Eph 2:5, thats why Christ came

 

[Dizerner]

Video: The Gospel Of Salvation

"If Christ failed to pay for all our sins, he would have remained in the grave and in death. If one single sin of mankind which God laid upon Christ had been left unpaid, Christ would have never risen from the death."

Great quotes.

Makes you think.

 

[jeremiah1five]

@jeremiah1five



God saw His Covenant People Dead, affected by the Fall Eph 2:5, thats why Christ came

Disagree.

So does Scripture:

13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, And canst not look on iniquity: Hab 1:13.

But you'll overlook this passage and hold to what YOU believe.

And there is no Fall of man. The doctrine of a "Fall" rests on Adam and the woman eating the forbidden fruit and it was THAT sin by which a "Fall" as a doctrine rests. Well, I got news to you. How can there be a sin which is the "Fall" if Adam and the woman were already sinners BEFORE disobeying God and eating from the tree?
Oh, yes. Didn't you know this? The eating of the forbidden tree was their second recorded sin. Here is the first sin, which proves that God created man and the woman as sinners, or sinful, which Strong defines the word "sin" as "missing the mark." So, what "mark" was missed? The "mark" which is the standard and meeting the expectation of the glory of God. Adam and the woman sinned when they ate from the tree, right? And we know that sin comes from sinner, right? So, what sin did the man and woman commit BEFORE eating from the tree?

 

[brightfame52]

Disagree.

So does Scripture:

13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, And canst not look on iniquity: Hab 1:13.

But you'll overlook this passage and hold to what YOU believe.

And there is no Fall of man. The doctrine of a "Fall" rests on Adam and the woman eating the forbidden fruit and it was THAT sin by which a "Fall" as a doctrine rests. Well, I got news to you. How can there be a sin which is the "Fall" if Adam and the woman were already sinners BEFORE disobeying God and eating from the tree?
Oh, yes. Didn't you know this? The eating of the forbidden tree was their second recorded sin. Here is the first sin, which proves that God created man and the woman as sinners, or sinful, which Strong defines the word "sin" as "missing the mark." So, what "mark" was missed? The "mark" which is the standard and meeting the expectation of the glory of God. Adam and the woman sinned when they ate from the tree, right? And we know that sin comes from sinner, right? So, what sin did the man and woman commit BEFORE eating from the tree?

God saw His Covenant People Dead, affected by the Fall Eph 2:5, thats why Christ came

 

[Dizerner]

Great video on the Gospel: