The Gospel Of Salvation

[praise_yeshua]

Paul. Not "Saul."

He refuses to acknowledge Paul because he believes Paul compromised. He doesn't really accept the writings of Paul as being canonical or inspired.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The NT IS Scripture.

That's right, it is script-ure, meaning "writings." But is it Scripture that is equal in authenticity and authority such as the Hebrew Scripture, the Scripture that laid out the history of a Hebrew people and God's covenants with this people?

The Law of Moses was given to the children of Israel. If Jesus came to fulfill the Law as He said in Matthew, then that's all He did. He fulfilled it perfectly. Jeremiah prophesies about a New Covenant. He doesn't give too much information but he does state with whom God will enact this covenant with, and that means, the House of Israel (ten northern kingdom tribes), and the House of Judah (two southern kingdom tribes) Jeremiah 31:31-34.

At the Passover meal Jesus states a new covenant in His body and blood. And Jesus designates to whom His sacrifice is made for, that is, for the children of Israel in covenant with God. It is first made for the twelve disciples, then for Israel in general and only through covenant. Jesus said, "Scripture cannot be broken" and He was referring to the Hebrew writings of what we call the Old Testament. The Old Testament consists of Law, Psalms, and the Prophets. These are the writings that cannot be broken or changed or added to or subtracted from. This means, everything that consists of what we now call the "New Testament" from Matthew to Revelation that these writings cannot and will not contradict what is written in the Old Testament Hebrew Scripture, right?

 

[jeremiah1five]

1st off, I went to the greek
2nd, I quoted a NKJV really is no different, the only difference I see is the auth KJV uses another twice instead of different for one and another the second one.

There are two greek words. so I would suggest the nkjv is actually more accurate

Actually, it is not.

and PS, I would not trust any English bible completely. I would always look to the original languages when there is any question
did you read my post?
I explained this in my post.

No, you didn't explain what the "another" gospel is.

Try again.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Um no. Again, in the original greek test. Acts 13: 9 called him saulos, which is also called paulos

Paul was the apostle sent to the gentiles. He wrote to the gentiles.

I do not understand your problem with this

You are looking at the Hebrew writings with a Gentile mindset. Tell me, was the NT written by Gentiles?

 

[Dizerner]

But is it Scripture that is equal in authenticity and authority such as the Hebrew Scripture, the Scripture that laid out the history of a Hebrew people and God's covenants with this people?

Yes.

If anyone questioned that I would question whether they were truly born again.

Scary thing.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Um no. Again, in the original greek test. Acts 13: 9 called him saulos, which is also called paulos

Paul was the apostle sent to the gentiles. He wrote to the gentiles.

I do not understand your problem with this

Do you actually think and believe that "Gentiles" in the NT actually refers to non-Hebrews?
Where in the Old Testament Hebrew Scripture does God make promises to save non-Hebrews?
Remember, Scripture cannot be broken. So, show me in the Old Testament Hebrew Scriptures, the Scripture that Jesus said "cannot be broken" where God made a covenant or promises to non-Hebrew Gentiles. There are only three covenants of salvation importance: The Abraham, Mosaic, and New Covenants. If you are honest with Scripture then tell me where in the Old Testament Hebrew Scripture where God makes covenant with "non-Hebrew Gentiles"?

The Abraham Covenant is found in Genesis 12, 15, and 17. It says clearly that this covenant is between God, Abraham, and Abraham's Hebrew seed/descendants (Gen. 17:6-7.)

The Mosaic Covenant brought in by Moses is between God and the children of Israel in the desert. God even gave them instruction to build a Tabernacle fashioned after a heavenly Tabernacle. What do you supposed took place in this heavenly Tabernacle?

The New Covenant is between God and the House of Israel and the House of Judah.

Where in these three covenants does God promise to save "Gentiles?"

 

[jeremiah1five]

Yes.

If anyone questioned that I would question whether they were truly born again.

Scary thing.

Two questions.

Who authored the NT writings: Jews or Gentiles?

To whom were these writings addressed to?

 

[praise_yeshua]

You are looking at the Hebrew writings with a Gentile mindset. Tell me, was the NT written by Gentiles?

Nonsense. Paul was the only Hebrew of Hebrews descendent that wrote anything in the NT.

Even at the time of Christ, your preference in those you believe to be the "child of a "Jewish" woman" is ridiculous. Tamar and Ruth both were gentiles.

You're a charlatan.

So come on.... lets have that argument. You need to be exposed to newer forum members.

 

[jeremiah1five]

What are you, a Calvinist? Of course there is an offer of salvation. All day long he stretches out his hands.

He "stretches His hands" to Israel. But they are ALREADY in the covenant to be saved. So, there is no offer except to reiterate the original covenant given to Abraham and to Moses to the children of Israel.

What. His salvation reaches to the ends of the earth. I recommend reading Romans 10 and 11.

You're quoting the OT. And everything written from Genesis to Malachi is written to a people ALREADY in covenant to be saved and in time God sends His Son to save who?
To save those in covenant with God:

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.

"Them" that are under the Law are the children of Israel - NOT Gentiles.

I believe it is to reflect the Triune nature of God, but this is another topic altogether.
I AM the seed of Abraham, and his promise applies to ME.

What tribe do you belong?

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal. 3:28-29 NKJ)

You are in grave error, and I recommend you start being "honest" with this Scripture.

Verse 28 and 29 are a culmination of what went before it. Pay attention:

23 But before faith came, we [Jews] were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our [Jews] schoolmaster to bring us [Jews] unto Christ, that we [Jews] might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we [Jews] are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye [Jews] are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you [Jews] as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Gal. 3:23–29.

Notice in verse 28 Saul doesn't say "Gentile" but "Greek" referring to Hellenized Jews/Hebrews. He is not referring to non-Hebrew Gentiles. He is referring to Greek-influenced Hebrews who are the descendants of those that did not return with Nehemiah and the remnant of 522 BC. A remnant is about 10% of the total. This means 90% Jews remained in exile and in Gentile lands, from Assyria to Babylon and every Gentile town or city in between. And these Jews remained in these Gentile lands and heavily influenced by Greek culture for about 15-20 generations until we get to the first century when Jesus enters the picture. They did not all remain true to their Hebrew heritage. If you know anything about how Judaism came to be and what happen to the Law of Moses and the Temple, etc., then you should know that there were Hebrews who grew up in Gentile lands that were heavily influenced by Greek culture, not Hebrew culture. There were many Hebrews/Jews who were not circumcised because in 15-20 generations of Jews who did not have a Temple/Tabernacle or a place to offer their sacrifices they had to focus their Judaism/Mosaic heritage around the Feasts, not the altar. Just as what happened to those Moses led out of Egypt the same happened to the Jews that grew up in Gentile lands under Greek culture. When the good news about Israel's Messiah reached them (because they were still Abraham's seed) then became saved but they were no circumcised. Some taught they had to be circumcised to really be saved. This led to the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15 (AD 50.)

Are you 'caught up'?

What was the result of the Jerusalem Council? They told these mixed-heritage Hebrews/Jews to obey four precepts of the Law of Moses. Now, think about that. This clearly identifies the ones that were told to "abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication" (Acts 15:29) were of Jewish descent but mixed heritage (half-Jew/half-Gentile.) After 15-20 generations in Gentile lands these Jews did mix it up with non-Hebrew Gentiles and married, etc. The Jewish Christians at the Jerusalem Council would NEVER tell Gentiles (if these were Gentiles that some wanted to circumcise) that they had to obey the Law of Moses. No Jew would ever instruct a heathen, non-Hebrew Gentile to obey any aspect of the Law of Moses as was done which led to the Jerusalem Council. The question had to do with mixed-heritage Jews who were not circumcised, became born-again, and were told they needed to be circumcised to be saved. They were NOT Gentile.

 

[praise_yeshua]

We need a DNA test for all these "Jews" around here claiming to be a "Jew" and are not...... The Scriptures are clear.

To the church of/at Attalus Philadelphus

Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

 

[praise_yeshua]

What was the result of the Jerusalem Council? They told these mixed-heritage Hebrews/Jews to obey four precepts of the Law of Moses. Now, think about that. This clearly identifies the ones that were told to "abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication" (Acts 15:29) were of Jewish descent but mixed heritage (half-Jew/half-Gentile.) After 15-20 generations in Gentile lands these Jews did mix it up with non-Hebrew Gentiles and married, etc. The Jewish Christians at the Jerusalem Council would NEVER tell Gentiles (if these were Gentiles that some wanted to circumcise) that they had to obey the Law of Moses. No Jew would ever instruct a heathen, non-Hebrew Gentile to obey any aspect of the Law of Moses as was done which led to the Jerusalem Council. The question had to do with mixed-heritage Jews who were not circumcised, became born-again, and were told they needed to be circumcised to be saved. They were NOT Gentile.

WOW... 4 principles of the law and you're making an argument relative to the law itself?

You really are a messed up Gentile. You don't understand Judaism nor the Torah.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Um no. Again, in the original greek test. Acts 13: 9 called him saulos, which is also called paulos

Paul was the apostle sent to the gentiles. He wrote to the gentiles.

I do not understand your problem with this

The "mixed-heritage Hebrews in the NT were called "Gentile" the same that mixed heritage Jews were called "Samaritan" and not "Jew." Before you go off and tell me that Gentiles meant non-Hebrew Gentiles then you must first prove to me that there are non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Abraham Covenant - or Mosaic Covenant. And since we are now in the New Covenant era, why does Jeremiah only name the House of Israel and the House of Judah as the only people in this covenant with God?

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, That I will make a new covenant With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand To bring them out of the land of Egypt; Which my covenant they brake, Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, And write it in their hearts; And will be their God, And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: For they shall all know me, From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: For I will forgive their iniquity, And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:31–34.

The New Covenant that Jesus initiated in His body and blood is the New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah and notice there are NO GENTILES in this Hebrew Covenant. NONE.

The New Covenant is only the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Jesus, Israel's Messiah, and the Lamb sent by God. And, who did the animal sacrifice under the Law do? It atoned for the sins of the children of Israel for one year until the next Yom Kippur Feast. Jesus did His thing during the Hebrew Passover. The same way the animal sacrificed for the sins of the children 0ofr Israel for one year, the same Jesus, as lamb of God, atoned for the sins of the children of Israel eternally and finally forever. There are no non-Hebrew Gentiles included in any of the three Hebrew Covenants in the Hebrew Scripture.

The Church Jesus Promised to build was first populated by three thousand Jews on the Feast of Harvest (Pentecost.) And it says in Acts 2:47 Jesus added to His Church daily such as should be saved. AND WHO should be saved but the children of Israel for whom Jesus was sent to die and atone:

31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
John 1:31.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matt. 15:24.

 

[jeremiah1five]

WOW... 4 principles of the law and you're making an argument relative to the law itself?

You really are a messed up Gentile. You don't understand Judaism nor the Torah.

The Jewish Christians would NEVER instruct Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses. There would be riots, and the Christians would lose their credibility among the Jews.

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
Acts 21:20–24.

Salvation was of the Jews. They were in covenant with God, Gentiles weren't.
Here are Jewish Christian leadership who as born-again Christian continued in their obedience to the Law. Even Saul remained as rabbi, Pharisee, and Christian obedient to the Law of Moses. Saul even enjoined himself to the Nazarene vow. He shaved his head in obedience to the Law concerning the vows of the Nazarene.
Saul did say he was "separated from his mother's womb" indicating his birth was in accordance to the Nazarene vows.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Um no. Again, in the original greek test. Acts 13: 9 called him saulos, which is also called paulos

Paul was the apostle sent to the gentiles. He wrote to the gentiles.

I do not understand your problem with this

WHO put the scrolls together and called it the "New Testament?" Gentiles.
But the New Testament is not 27 writings, but a covenant ordained by God.
THIS IS the New Testament/Covenant:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, That I will make a new covenant With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand To bring them out of the land of Egypt; Which my covenant they brake, Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, And write it in their hearts; And will be their God, And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: For they shall all know me, From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: For I will forgive their iniquity, And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:31–34.

Verse 31ff is the New Covenant/Testament, NOT 27 writings.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Actually, it is not.

Actually yes it is. It used 2 different english words to interpret 2 different greek words. not one like the authorized version did

No, you didn't explain what the "another" gospel is.

Try again.

this is what I said

He marvels that they quickly turn to a different gospel The word here is Heteron which means another, a different in kind,

then he states emphatically, it is not another, the word here is Allo - another, one besides, another of a type

Meaning he is specifically saying they were believing or turning to a differnt kind of Gospel. which is not a replacement gospel. It is not this way or that way.

Then he states emphatically. If we (he includes himself) or an an angel in heaven preach any other gospel to you, let him be accursed

Accursed comes from the word anathema - which means something is cursed, damned, devoted to destruction.

This is the most harsh form of discipline one could call for. the eternal damnation of anyone

Paul is not playing games here, he is direct and to the point

sorry, But you are now falsely accusing me, I may be new, But I am not unlearned

 

[praise_yeshua]

The Jewish Christians would NEVER instruct Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses. There would be riots, and the Christians would lose their credibility among the Jews.

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
Acts 21:20–24.

Salvation was of the Jews. They were in covenant with God, Gentiles weren't.
Here are Jewish Christian leadership who as born-again Christian continued in their obedience to the Law. Even Saul remained as rabbi, Pharisee, and Christian obedient to the Law of Moses. Saul even enjoined himself to the Nazarene vow. He shaved his head in obedience to the Law concerning the vows of the Nazarene.
Saul did say he was "separated from his mother's womb" indicating his birth was in accordance to the Nazarene vows.

As always. You leave out some very important facts concerning the totality of Scriptures. It is why you ignored a large portion of what I write to you. Over and over again.

What you don't like about the Scriptures, you cast away as if they don't matter. However, it does matter.

Why are you ignoring the fact that Jesus was the descendent of Gentile mothers? Why are you ignoring the fact that Paul wasn't? Are you calling Paul a liar when he said "A Hebrew of Hebrews"? Historical fact....

Yet, here you are denying his name in Christ. Isn't that "ironic".......

So stop ignoring facts by living your life in a just a few verses you think you can "handle"..... It is rather obvious you're not capable of actually dealing the entirety of revelation from God.

So buckle up and lets deal with this......

 

[Dizerner]

What tribe do you belong?

Judah of course, lol.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Judah of course, lol.

Through Christ. Just like every nation and tongue of the earth.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Judah of course, lol.

BTW.... have you noticed that Judah himself. The son of Israel/Jacob had sex with a Gentile that produced a seed/son in the line of Jesus?

It is one of the reasons that Jesus is the second Adam and not the second Abraham.

 

[praise_yeshua]

For all you "Jew" experts......

Do you realize that Christ bore the curse of Ham through Tamar?

The descendants of Ham were cursed. Tamar was a Canaanite......

Now here is what is going to happen as this conversation progresses. Some "jew" is going to insist that Tamar was in line of Shem. Just wait for it. It is probably just around corner. Lets wait to then and see where this comes from......