brightfame52
Well-known member
God saw His Covenant People Dead, affected by the Fall Eph 2:5, thats why Christ came, it was according to His Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11
The Gospel Of Salvation
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jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Repeating your error does not make it become truth.
God NEVER seen His people as sin, evil, or dead.
God is a God of the living, not the dead.
From the moment He contemplated them as sinless people in His Mind to the moment and beyond they become born-again and saved.
But we're talking about the Hebrew people. Gentiles are those that do not have salvation.
brightfame52
Well-known member
God saw His Covenant People Dead, affected by the Fall Eph 2:5, thats why Christ came, it was according to His Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11
dwight92070
Well-known member
Romans 15:1-4 Paul clearly explains here what the gospel of salvation is. So we know that Calvin was wrong and those MEN who came up with TULIP were also wrong. Once you see the truth in Scripture, all other "gospels" must be rejected. This is quite simple
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Non-applicable.
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved. Eph 2:5.
This is from the perspective of man, not God. aul says, "we".
and
This says nothing about God seeing anyone dead.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; Eph 2:11.
So, you are wrong on both counts.
Again.
The problem you have is that you see as man sees and not as God sees. That's why your man-centered belief.
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brightfame52
Well-known member
God saw His Covenant People Dead, affected by the Fall Eph 2:5, that's why Christ came, it was according to His Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11
He saw them dead here Ezk 37:1-5
The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,
2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.
3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest.
4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.
5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
dwight92070
Well-known member
The gospel of salvation is several places in Paul's writings, but it's NOT to be found in the writings of John Calvin.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Tulip is the Gospel
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Again, the perspective of man towards the valley which was full of bones. There is nothing in this passage you provide where God "sees" or recognizes His people as "dead." It is Ezekiel who is making the determination of in prophetic terms.
brightfame52
Well-known member
God saw His Covenant People Dead, affected by the Fall Eph 2:5, that's why Christ came, it was according to His Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11
He saw them dead here Ezk 37:1-5
civic
Well-known member
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Then, your position is one that contradicts Scripture, and since there is no Scripture from the Old Testament that the New Testament contradicts, then it is your interpretation of the New Testament that contradicts the Old Testament.
13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, And canst not look on iniquity:
Wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously,
And holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?
Hab 1:12–13.
According to Habakkuk you and your interpretation "deals treacherously" against the Scripture that states unequivocally that God does not see or beholds evil and iniquity (which means "sin.")
brightfame52
Well-known member
God saw His Covenant People Dead, affected by the Fall Eph 2:5, that's why Christ came, it was according to His Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11
He saw them dead here Ezk 37:1-5
dwight92070
Well-known member
You're free to believe that, but if you think that Christians who don't believe that, like me, are either lost or on their way to being lost, then basically you're attitude is cultic. I know of churches where anyone who did not believe in Calvinism as the leaders did, were asked to leave the church. On the other hand, I know of churches where the leadership believed in Calvinism, but they loved all in the church, even those who disagreed with them. Yes, they did not talk much about Calvinism, because they knew that NOT believing that was NOT going to send people to hell. They had no desire to divide the body of Christ over an issue where many Christians believed in it, and many did not.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Tulip is the Gospel is all Im saying.
dwight92070
Well-known member
Yes, if I were you, I would also be ashamed of what I believe, since it has caused so much division in the church. The fruit of Calvinism is rotten fruit, so we know the tree is rotten too.
brightfame52
Well-known member
You sure speak negative against the Gospel of Gods Grace !
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, And canst not look on iniquity:
Wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously,
And holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?
Hab 1:12–13.
I let the reader judge.
Eternally-Grateful
Active member
The gospel in a nutshell
In John 3, Jesus tells us we must be born again. He explains what this means to Nicodemus because Nicodemus was confused. In the end. Nicodemus asks the question we should all ask.
9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”
In other words. How can I be born again
Jesus response
10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?
First off it is quite telling. Jesus in effect says that he should already know this. how one is born again and why. Especially since he was a teacher of Israel
11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,
as with many times, Jesus uses an old testament example to show a point, He mentions the time Moses lifted a serpent.
When we look back. We see The children of Israel walked into a bunch of snakes. and were being bitten. Because of these bites. the people were basically given a death sentence. They were hopeless. and unless something was done, they would all die. so they cried out.
God told moses to make this serpent of bronze. Put it on a pole. and lift it up. Whoever looked would live, whoever did not would die
Now think about this. You know your dyeing, You know everyone around you is dyeing, and you are asked to trust in this bronze serpent. As if it is going to save you (this takes alot of faith.
Those who had this faith and looked lived
Those who did not have this faith either thought they could save themselves. or did not think they were in danger, or hated god so much they would not give him the time of day, and in the end, suffered their fate as their death sentence (by poison) was carried out, all because of their rebellion
so this sets up for what Jesus is going to do. the thing that CAN save us
even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
1. So in like manner, he would be lifted up on a pole (the cross)
2. Whoever in faith looked to this cross for salvation would life
3. Whoever does not (unbelief) will die
They suffer unbelief because again, they either do not think they are dying, they think they can WORK to save themselves. or they hate God so much, they will doing anything (in effect hide the truth about God in their hearts and deny him as shown in romans 1)
4. interesting to note that Jesus said he came not to judge THE WORLD. But he came that the WORLD MIGHT BE SAVED. - Like the serpent, could have saved all people. the cross is able to save all mankind. But it does not mean all mankind will recieve it.
Jesus finishes with a statement of fact.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
As with the children of Israel, we are all under condemnation. we have been given the death sentence. He who believes, trust Go9ds provision, will not suffer the condemnation, their death sentence is lifted.
Those who do not believe will in the end if they do not repent. suffer their death sentence. or their condemnation will come to fruition. John calls this in revelation the second death
In John 3, Jesus tells us we must be born again. He explains what this means to Nicodemus because Nicodemus was confused. In the end. Nicodemus asks the question we should all ask.
9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”
In other words. How can I be born again
Jesus response
10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?
First off it is quite telling. Jesus in effect says that he should already know this. how one is born again and why. Especially since he was a teacher of Israel
11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,
as with many times, Jesus uses an old testament example to show a point, He mentions the time Moses lifted a serpent.
When we look back. We see The children of Israel walked into a bunch of snakes. and were being bitten. Because of these bites. the people were basically given a death sentence. They were hopeless. and unless something was done, they would all die. so they cried out.
God told moses to make this serpent of bronze. Put it on a pole. and lift it up. Whoever looked would live, whoever did not would die
Now think about this. You know your dyeing, You know everyone around you is dyeing, and you are asked to trust in this bronze serpent. As if it is going to save you (this takes alot of faith.
Those who had this faith and looked lived
Those who did not have this faith either thought they could save themselves. or did not think they were in danger, or hated god so much they would not give him the time of day, and in the end, suffered their fate as their death sentence (by poison) was carried out, all because of their rebellion
so this sets up for what Jesus is going to do. the thing that CAN save us
even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
1. So in like manner, he would be lifted up on a pole (the cross)
2. Whoever in faith looked to this cross for salvation would life
3. Whoever does not (unbelief) will die
They suffer unbelief because again, they either do not think they are dying, they think they can WORK to save themselves. or they hate God so much, they will doing anything (in effect hide the truth about God in their hearts and deny him as shown in romans 1)
4. interesting to note that Jesus said he came not to judge THE WORLD. But he came that the WORLD MIGHT BE SAVED. - Like the serpent, could have saved all people. the cross is able to save all mankind. But it does not mean all mankind will recieve it.
Jesus finishes with a statement of fact.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
As with the children of Israel, we are all under condemnation. we have been given the death sentence. He who believes, trust Go9ds provision, will not suffer the condemnation, their death sentence is lifted.
Those who do not believe will in the end if they do not repent. suffer their death sentence. or their condemnation will come to fruition. John calls this in revelation the second death
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
All of you do realize there is more than one gospel in Scripture.
I can name off five in one hand. Even more if I spend time on the question. Don't be so narrow-minded to ignore and overlook God's goodness with many people that He has been good to in the Scripture record.
I can name off five in one hand. Even more if I spend time on the question. Don't be so narrow-minded to ignore and overlook God's goodness with many people that He has been good to in the Scripture record.
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