civic
Well-known member
after the 1 hour mark when he opens up his argument and then in his rebuttal .
The Elect
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
I nearly choked when Dr White claimed hearing and learning are passive activitiesThis was the best I have seen from Leighton there was no contest. He was on fire.
It was a night and day difference seeing the Holy Spirit directed presentation vs the wisdom of man at work. It was as Paul said the pulling down of strongholds below demonstrated by Leighton.
2 Corinthians 10- For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
Dr White's problematic claims
1) Claiming hearing and learning are passive
2 Men can become a new creation apart from Christ
contrary to
2 Corinthians 5:17 (ESV) — 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
3 stated it is a straw man of Calvinism to claim man has no control over his action as God determines everything
refused to go beyond saying man is judged because of Adams sin and called on the moderator to not allow Leightons challenge of unconditional election
Clifford
Active member
I watched it excellent video
Obadiah
Well-known member
I'm getting ready to watch it right now. Do you have any popcorn left?
civic
Well-known member
. Men are chosen in Christ
Ephesians 1:3 (ESV) — 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
men must be in Christ to be chosen
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Well, that leaves you out, since you are the chooser, not the chosen.
civic
Well-known member
2 sides of the same coin. Those who choose Christ are the same ones chosen by Him.
.Thats a false dilemma fallacy.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
2 sides of the same coin. Those who choose Christ are the same ones chosen by Him.
Thats a false dilemma fallacy.
Sorry, nothing in the Bible says choosing makes you chosen. Denial isn't going to let you off the hook. You're a chooser, not the chosen, Sucks to be excluded like that. You have my sympathy.
civic
Well-known member
You can believe whatever you would like to but your faith is not your own and Jesus requires your own faith to be saved.
hope this helps !!!
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Interesting how you show others sympathy when you believe God doesn't care for them.
Johann
Well-known member
1Co 2:13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
1Co 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15 The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.
1Co 2:16 “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
the natural man
*Jud 1:19 These are those who cause divisions and are sensual, not having the Spirit.
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body and there is also a spiritual body.
1Co 15:46 However, that which is spiritual isn’t first, but that which is natural, then that which is spiritual.
Jas 3:15 This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, sensual, and demonic.
receiveth
*Mt 13:11-17 [11] He answered them, “To you it is given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but it is not given to them. [12] For whoever has, to him will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever doesn’t have, from him will be taken away even that which he has. [13] Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they don’t see, and hearing, they don’t hear, neither do they understand. [14] In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says, ‘By hearing you will hear, and will in no way understand; Seeing you will see, and will in no way perceive; [15] for this people’s heart has grown callous, their ears are dull of hearing, and they have closed their eyes; or else perhaps they might perceive with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their heart, and would turn again, and I would heal them.’ [16] “But blessed are your eyes, for they see; and your ears, for they hear. [17] For most certainly I tell you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see the things which you see, and didn’t see them; and to hear the things which you hear, and didn’t hear them.
*Ro 8:5-8 [5] For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. [6] For the mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace; [7] because the mind of the flesh is hostile toward God, for it is not subject to God’s law, neither indeed can it be. [8] Those who are in the flesh can’t please God.
Mt 16:23 But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, for you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of men.”
Jn 3:3-6 [3] Jesus answered him, “Most certainly I tell you, unless one is born anew, he can’t see God’s Kingdom.” [4] Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” [5] Jesus answered, “Most certainly I tell you, unless one is born of water and Spirit, he can’t enter into God’s Kingdom. [6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jn 8:43 Why don’t you understand my speech? Because you can’t hear my word.
Jn 10:26-27 [26] But you don’t believe, because you are not of my sheep, as I told you. [27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
Jn 12:37 But though he had done so many signs before them, yet they didn’t believe in him,
How is it the natural man CAN understand and respond to the gospel when Scriptures says -not so?
The audience that Paul is speaking to about the perils of being or becoming a natural man is regenerated believers. They are the ones that have to be careful about being that, not just unregenerated believers.
civic
Well-known member
context is everything and we know the C's do not adhere to the context but pluck passages from the context to change the meaning. and we know the context always refutes their beliefs.
Johann
Well-known member
In 1 Corinthians 2:14, the context surrounds the theme of wisdom and the contrast between the wisdom of God and the wisdom of the world. The apostle Paul is addressing the Corinthians regarding the nature of true wisdom and the role of the Holy Spirit in understanding spiritual truths.
Throughout 1 Corinthians 1 and 2, Paul contrasts the wisdom of God with the wisdom of the world. He emphasizes that God's wisdom appears foolish to the world, but it is actually the source of true understanding and salvation. In contrast, the wisdom of the world leads to division, boasting, and ultimately, folly in the eyes of God.
In verse 14 specifically, Paul explains that the natural or unregenerate person, one who is not born again or guided by the Spirit of God, cannot accept or understand the things of the Spirit. The spiritual truths of God are foolishness to them because they lack spiritual discernment. The natural person relies on human reasoning and worldly wisdom, which are insufficient for grasping the deep truths of God's kingdom.
1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
I'm all for context.
civic
Well-known member
how did the causation occur ? keep reading since we know that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ- Rom 10:17
Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.
22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart. 23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For,
“All people are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.”
And this is the word that was preached to you.
The audience is undeniably regenerated believers. You are artificially imposing the natural = unregenerated only unwarranted rule. The verse does not say that.
Wonderful verses about regenerated people just like the Corinthian verses.
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Johann
Well-known member
The passage you're referring to is from 1 Peter 1:8-9, and it speaks to the context of faith and salvation within the broader theme of suffering and hope in the Christian life.
In the preceding verses, Peter addresses the believers as exiles scattered throughout various regions. He acknowledges the trials and difficulties they are facing and encourages them to hold fast to their faith in Christ despite their sufferings.
In verses 8-9 specifically, Peter emphasizes the remarkable nature of their faith and the assurance they have in Christ, even though they have not physically seen Him. Here's the breakdown:
Love for Christ: Peter acknowledges the believers' love for Jesus, even though they have not seen Him. Their love is not based on physical sight but on their relationship with Him through faith.
Belief in Christ: Despite not seeing Jesus at the present moment, the believers continue to believe in Him. Their faith is not dependent on visible evidence but is rooted in their trust in His promises and teachings.
Joy in Salvation: Peter describes the believers as being filled with "inexpressible and glorious joy" because they are experiencing the salvation of their souls. This joy stems from the assurance of their salvation through faith in Christ.
The context of suffering and persecution likely amplifies the significance of these words. Despite their present trials, Peter assures the believers that their faith in Christ is producing an eternal outcome—the salvation of their souls. This perspective empowers them to endure hardships with hope and joy, knowing that their ultimate redemption is secure in Christ.
In summary, the context of 1 Peter 1:8-9 highlights the believers' steadfast faith and joy in Christ amidst trials and suffering, emphasizing the assurance of salvation through faith even in the absence of physical sight.
Something I want to share with you-
Calvinists are Wicked?
civic
Well-known member
Through and by their faith.
