The Elect

[Johann]

This is a public forum. Whatever you forward is seen by all and can be questioned. That's how the forum works. We don't throw ad hominem accusations like "immaturity and ignorance of Scriptures" at each other at the first sign that you're losing the argument. Stay on the topic and avoid the ad hominems. You can also run away from the topic by putting me on ignore.

Great-thanks for reminding me.

 

[civic]

Correct-all of God-none of self.

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—
Eph 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.


by
*Eph 2:5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

Ro 3:24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

2Th 1:9 who will pay the penalty: eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

through
*Ro 3:22-26 [22] even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all those who believe. For there is no distinction, [23] for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; [24] being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, [25] whom God sent to be an atoning sacrifice through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God’s forbearance; [26] to demonstrate his righteousness at this present time, that he might himself be just and the justifier of him who has faith in Jesus.

*Ro 4:16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace, to the end that the promise may be sure to all the offspring, not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all.

Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who disbelieves will be condemned.

Lk 7:50 He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”

Jn 3:14-18 [14] As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, [15] that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. [16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. [17] For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. [18] He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only born Son of God.

Jn 3:36 One who believes in the Son has eternal life, but one who disobeys the Son won’t see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”

Jn 5:24 “Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Jn 6:27-29 [27] Don’t work for the food which perishes, but for the food which remains to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For God the Father has sealed him.” [28] They said therefore to him, “What must we do, that we may work the works of God?” [29] Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

Jn 6:35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will not be hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.

Jn 6:40 This is the will of the one who sent me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Ac 13:39 and by him everyone who believes is justified from all things, from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Ac 15:7-9 [7] When there had been much discussion, Peter rose up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that a good while ago God made a choice among you that by my mouth the nations should hear the word of the Good News and believe. [8] God, who knows the heart, testified about them, giving them the Holy Spirit, just like he did to us. [9] He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Ac 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Ro 4:5 But to him who doesn’t work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.

Ro 10:9-10 [9] that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. [10] For with the heart one believes resulting in righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made resulting in salvation.

Ga 3:14 that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Ga 3:22 But the Scripture imprisoned all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1Jn 5:10-12 [10] He who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. He who doesn’t believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning his Son. [11] The testimony is this: that God gave to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. [12] He who has the Son has the life. He who doesn’t have God’s Son doesn’t have the life.

that
*Jas 1:16-18 [16] Don’t be deceived, my beloved brothers. [17] Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom can be no variation nor turning shadow. [18] Of his own will he gave birth to us by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared before that we would walk in them.

Eph 1:19 and what is the exceeding greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to that working of the strength of his might

Mt 16:17 Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.

Jn 1:12-13 [12] But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God’s children, to those who believe in his name: [13] who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Jn 6:37 All those whom the Father gives me will come to me. He who comes to me I will in no way throw out.

Jn 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up in the last day.

Jn 6:65 He said, “For this cause I have said to you that no one can come to me, unless it is given to him by my Father.”

Ac 14:27 When they had arrived and had gathered the assembly together, they reported all the things that God had done with them, and that he had opened a door of faith to the nations.

Ac 16:14 A certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, one who worshiped God, heard us. The Lord opened her heart to listen to the things which were spoken by Paul.

Ro 10:14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in him whom they have not heard? How will they hear without a preacher?

Ro 10:17 So faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Php 1:29 Because it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in him, but also to suffer on his behalf,

Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Reciprocal
Job 40:14 Then I will also admit to you that your own right hand can save you.

Ps 6:4 Return, Yahweh. Deliver my soul, and save me for your loving kindness’ sake.

Ps 25:7 Don’t remember the sins of my youth, nor my transgressions. Remember me according to your loving kindness, for your goodness’ sake, Yahweh.

Ps 27:13 I am still confident of this: I will see the goodness of Yahweh in the land of the living.

Ps 37:39 But the salvation of the righteous is from Yahweh. He is their stronghold in the time of trouble.

Ps 105:45 that they might keep his statutes, and observe his laws. Praise Yah!

Ps 111:2 Yahweh’s works are great, pondered by all those who delight in them.

Is 41:20 that they may see, know, consider, and understand together, that Yahweh’s hand has done this, and the Holy One of Israel has created it.

Is 55:1 “Hey! Come, everyone who thirsts, to the waters! Come, he who has no money, buy, and eat! Yes, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

Ho 14:2 Take words with you, and return to Yahweh. Tell him, “Forgive all our sins, and accept that which is good; so we offer bulls as we vowed of our lips.

Ho 14:4 “I will heal their waywardness. I will love them freely; for my anger is turned away from them.

Zec 4:7 Who are you, great mountain? Before Zerubbabel you are a plain; and he will bring out the capstone with shouts of ‘Grace, grace, to it!’”

Mt 20:9 “When those who were hired at about the eleventh hour came, they each received a denarius.

Mt 21:29 He answered, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he changed his mind, and went.

Mk 2:5 Jesus, seeing their faith, said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.”

Mk 4:11 He said to them, “To you is given the mystery of God’s Kingdom, but to those who are outside, all things are done in parables,

Mk 9:24 Immediately the father of the child cried out with tears, “I believe. Help my unbelief!”

Lk 8:15 Those in the good ground, these are those who with an honest and good heart, having heard the word, hold it tightly, and produce fruit with perseverance.

Lk 15:32 But it was appropriate to celebrate and be glad, for this, your brother, was dead, and is alive again. He was lost, and is found.’”

Lk 18:27 But he said, “The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.”

Jn 1:16 From his fullness we all received grace upon grace.

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, “Most certainly I tell you, unless one is born of water and Spirit, he can’t enter into God’s Kingdom.

Jn 4:10 Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.”

Ac 13:43 Now when the synagogue broke up, many of the Jews and of the devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas; who, speaking to them, urged them to continue in the grace of God.

Ac 13:48 As the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of God. As many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

Ac 15:11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they are.”

Ac 18:27 When he had determined to pass over into Achaia, the brothers encouraged him; and wrote to the disciples to receive him. When he had come, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace;

Ac 20:24 But these things don’t count; nor do I hold my life dear to myself, so that I may finish my race with joy, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to fully testify to the Good News of the grace of God.

Ac 26:18 to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

Ro 3:12 They have all turned away. They have together become unprofitable. There is no one who does good, no, not so much as one.”

Ro 3:20 Because by the works of the law, no flesh will be justified in his sight; for through the law comes the knowledge of sin.

Ro 3:27 Where then is the boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.

Ro 4:6 Even as David also pronounces blessing on the man to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:

Ro 5:15 But the free gift isn’t like the trespass. For if by the trespass of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.

Ro 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!

Ro 6:17 But thanks be to God that, whereas you were bondservants of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were delivered.

no faith, no salvation and faith precedes salvation and faith is mans responsibility and condition on which anyone is saved. Unbelief keeps one from salvation and belief saves a person. Believe Jesus words below. Like old Nicodemus did not understand Jesus teaching on the new birth , you do not understand Jesus teaching on faith. Jesus emphasizes belief below 5 times in 5 verses.

John 3
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

conclusion: Jesus taught man must believe in Him to be saved. That believe is the condition to be saved. Never once did Jesus ever say, teach or imply that He gave anyone faith- the faith must come from man as the condition for a person to be saved. Unbelief in Him condemns. Faith in Him saves.

 

[Johann]

Never once did Jesus ever say, teach or imply that He gave anyone faith- the faith must come from man as the condition for a person to be saved. Unbelief in Him condemns. Faith in Him saves.

1. Jesus' Statements: It's true that Jesus never explicitly stated, "I give you faith," in those exact words. However, there are passages where Jesus emphasizes the importance of faith and attributes it to various individuals.
   • For example, Jesus commends individuals for their faith, such as the centurion in Matthew 8:5-13 and the Canaanite woman in Matthew 15:21-28. In these instances, Jesus acknowledges and praises their faith.
   • Additionally, Jesus often declares, "Your faith has saved/healed you," indicating a connection between the individual's faith and their experience of salvation or healing (e.g., Matthew 9:22, Mark 5:34, Luke 17:19).
2. Human Responsibility: The statement rightly emphasizes human responsibility in responding to the gospel message with faith. Throughout the New Testament, individuals are called to repent and believe in Jesus for salvation (Mark 1:15, Acts 16:31). Faith is portrayed as a necessary response to the gospel proclamation.
3. God's Role in Salvation: While humans are responsible for exercising faith, Scripture also teaches that faith itself is a gift from God. Ephesians 2:8-9 states, "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." This passage suggests that even the ability to believe is a gracious gift from God.
4. Unbelief and Condemnation: The statement accurately reflects the biblical principle that unbelief results in condemnation (John 3:18). However, it's essential to recognize that faith is not merely a human achievement but a response enabled by the work of the Holy Spirit (John 6:44, 65).
   
   Correct?

 

[synergy]

Great-thanks for reminding me.

Let's see what road you took. Are you going to stop spitting out ad hominems (recommended) or are you going to run away from the topic by putting me on ignore (not recommended). If I don't hear from you then it's the latter.

 

[Johann]

This is a public forum. Whatever you forward is seen by all and can be questioned. That's how the forum works. We don't throw ad hominem accusations like "immaturity and ignorance of Scriptures" at each other at the first sign that you're losing the argument. Stay on the topic and avoid the ad hominems. You can also run away from the topic by putting me on ignore.

Correct-this is an open forum and I would rather abide by the rules and correct a erring brother or sister in love rather than in a condescendingly manner.
I need correction in my theology and doctrines-just not by you.

 

[Rockson]

John 3:3 (ESV): "Jesus answered him, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.'"

A prisoner in jail does not have freedom of the outside as a part of their experience. Such doesn't mean he can't conceive of the concept without the experience.

horaó: to see, perceive, attend to
Original Word: ὁράω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: horaó
Phonetic Spelling: (hor-ah'-o)
Definition: to see, perceive, attend to
Usage: I see, look upon, experience, perceive, discern, beware.

 

[Johann]

A prisoner in jail does not have freedom of the outside as a part of their experience. Such doesn't mean he can't conceive of the concept without the experience.

horaó: to see, perceive, attend to
Original Word: ὁράω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: horaó
Phonetic Spelling: (hor-ah'-o)
Definition: to see, perceive, attend to
Usage: I see, look upon, experience, perceive, discern, beware.

That would mean we read the Scriptures selectively-not being facetious @Rockson.
We are in a war torn world and I would rather stay true to what stands written and the condition of the man's heart.
Shalom brother
Johann.

 

[synergy]

Correct-this is an open forum and I would rather abide by the rules and correct a erring brother or sister in love rather than in a condescendingly manner.
I need correction in my theology and doctrines-just not by you.

Then stop with the ad hominems and stick with the topic. I asked you a question about the Calvinist natural man = unregenerated man only foundational belief. You are free to answer it or not. Do you care to answer it?

 

[civic]

1. Jesus' Statements:It's true that Jesus never explicitly stated, "I give you faith," in those exact words. However, there are passages where Jesus emphasizes the importance of faith and attributes it to various individuals.
   • For example, Jesus commends individuals for their faith, such as the centurion in Matthew 8:5-13 and the Canaanite woman in Matthew 15:21-28. In these instances, Jesus acknowledges and praises their faith.
   • Additionally, Jesus often declares, "Your faith has saved/healed you," indicating a connection between the individual's faith and their experience of salvation or healing (e.g., Matthew 9:22, Mark 5:34, Luke 17:19).
2. Human Responsibility: The statement rightly emphasizes human responsibility in responding to the gospel message with faith. Throughout the New Testament, individuals are called to repent and believe in Jesus for salvation (Mark 1:15, Acts 16:31). Faith is portrayed as a necessary response to the gospel proclamation.
3. God's Role in Salvation: While humans are responsible for exercising faith, Scripture also teaches that faith itself is a gift from God. Ephesians 2:8-9 states, "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." This passage suggests that even the ability to believe is a gracious gift from God.
4. Unbelief and Condemnation: The statement accurately reflects the biblical principle that unbelief results in condemnation (John 3:18). However, it's essential to recognize that faith is not merely a human achievement but a response enabled by the work of the Holy Spirit (John 6:44, 65).
   
   Correct?

Faith , repentance and humility all go hand in hand together and are Gods requirement's/condition for mankind to be saved.

 

[Behold]

How is it the natural man CAN understand and respond to the gospel when Scriptures says -not so?

The NT does not teach that at all.

God requires that we come to Jesus by Faith, and that is because its possible for EVERYONE.

This is why preachers preach the Gospel. Its so that unbelievers can : "FAITH comes by HEARING" The Gospel.

 

[civic]

The NT does not teach that at all.

God requires that we come to Jesus by Faith, and that is because its possible for EVERYONE.

This is why preachers preach the Gospel. Its so that unbelievers can : "FAITH comes by HEARING" The Gospel.

Amen

 

[Johann]

The NT does not teach that at all.

God requires that we come to Jesus by Faith, and that is because its possible for EVERYONE.

This is why preachers preach the Gospel. Its so that unbelievers can : "FAITH comes by HEARING" The Gospel.

John 6:44 (ESV): "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:65 (ESV): "And he said, 'This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.'"

Romans 8:7-8 (ESV): "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God."

1 Corinthians 2:14 (ESV): "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."

Ephesians 2:1 (ESV): "And you were dead in the trespasses and sins."

Ephesians 2:5 (ESV): "even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—"

Colossians 2:13 (ESV): "And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,"

Matthew 11:28 (ESV): "Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

John 6:37 (ESV): "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out."

John 7:37 (ESV): "On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, 'If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink.'"

John 14:6 (ESV): "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'"

Revelation 22:17 (ESV): "The Spirit and the Bride say, 'Come.' And let the one who hears say, 'Come.' And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price."

These passages emphasize Jesus' invitation to all who are weary, thirsty, or in need of salvation to come to Him. Jesus offers rest, satisfaction, and eternal life to those who respond to His call and place their trust in Him.

 

[Behold]

John 6:44 (ESV): "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day."

You told the other Forum where you met me... that you had gotten away from the Cult of Calvinism.

So, What has again taken your mind and again given it to "TULIP" and Calvinism?

Has Brightframe been working on you?
Was it another video? Another commentary? Another online website that has led you back into the TULIPs?
Why have you gone back to Calvinism .. @Johann
You had grown theologically past Calvinism this last year..., and now you are immersed in it again.

Why?
What happened?
Who did this to you (this time around)... other then Calvin?

 

[civic]

You told the other Forum where you met me... that you had gotten away from the Cult of Calvinism.

So, What has again taken your mind and again given it to "TULIP" and Calvinism?

Has Brightframe been working on you?
Was it another video? Another commentary? Another online website that has led you back into the TULIPs?
Why have you gone back to Calvinism .. @Johann
You had grown theologically past Calvinism this last year..., and now you are immersed in it again.

Why?
What happened?
Who did this to you (this time around)... other then Calvin?

Sound like the T, U, I and

 

[Johann]

You told the other Forum where you met me... that you had gotten away from the Cult of Calvinism.

So, What has again taken your mind and again given it to "TULIP" and Calvinism?

Has Brightframe been working on you?
Was it another video? Another commentary? Another online website that has led you back into the TULIPs?
Why have you gone back to Calvinism .. @Johann
You had grown theologically past Calvinism this last year..., and now you are immersed in it again.

Why?
What happened?
Who did this to you (this time around)... other then Calvin?

Incorrect-
Next--

 

[synergy]

These passages emphasize Jesus' invitation to all who are weary, thirsty, or in need of salvation to come to Him. Jesus offers rest, satisfaction, and eternal life to those who respond to His call and place their trust in Him.

I agree. No Calvinist "Irresistible Grace" nor "Total Depravity" to be found anywhere in the entire Bible. @The Rogue Tomato gave a thumbs up so it looks like he agrees also.

 

[praise_yeshua]

1. Jesus' Statements:It's true that Jesus never explicitly stated, "I give you faith," in those exact words. However, there are passages where Jesus emphasizes the importance of faith and attributes it to various individuals.
   • For example, Jesus commends individuals for their faith, such as the centurion in Matthew 8:5-13 and the Canaanite woman in Matthew 15:21-28. In these instances, Jesus acknowledges and praises their faith.
   • Additionally, Jesus often declares, "Your faith has saved/healed you," indicating a connection between the individual's faith and their experience of salvation or healing (e.g., Matthew 9:22, Mark 5:34, Luke 17:19).
2. Human Responsibility: The statement rightly emphasizes human responsibility in responding to the gospel message with faith. Throughout the New Testament, individuals are called to repent and believe in Jesus for salvation (Mark 1:15, Acts 16:31). Faith is portrayed as a necessary response to the gospel proclamation.
3. God's Role in Salvation: While humans are responsible for exercising faith, Scripture also teaches that faith itself is a gift from God. Ephesians 2:8-9 states, "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." This passage suggests that even the ability to believe is a gracious gift from God.
4. Unbelief and Condemnation: The statement accurately reflects the biblical principle that unbelief results in condemnation (John 3:18). However, it's essential to recognize that faith is not merely a human achievement but a response enabled by the work of the Holy Spirit (John 6:44, 65).
   
   Correct?

How many gifts have you received from God? How long should this list be?

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Is rain a gift from God?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I agree. No Calvinist "Irresistible Grace" nor "Total Depravity" to be found anywhere in the entire Bible. @The Rogue Tomato gave a thumbs up so it looks like he agrees also.

Have you compared these verses?

Matthew 11:28 (ESV): "Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

Matthew 5:3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5 “Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.
6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

In Matthew 5, I don't see any conditions. Jesus doesn't say, "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven if they choose to believe".

So, the question would be, who are the poor in spirit, who are those who mourn, the gentle, and those who hunger and thirst for righteousness -- and how did they get that way?

 

[civic]

Have you compared these verses?

Matthew 11:28 (ESV): "Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

Matthew 5:3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5 “Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.
6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

In Matthew 5, I don't see any conditions. Jesus doesn't say, "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven if they choose to believe".

So, the question would be, who are the poor in spirit, who are those who mourn, the gentle, and those who hunger and thirst for righteousness -- and how did they get that way?

Make up your mind lol it’s flip flopping

 

[praise_yeshua]

Have you compared these verses?

Matthew 11:28 (ESV): "Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

Matthew 5:3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5 “Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.
6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

In Matthew 5, I don't see any conditions. Jesus doesn't say, "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven if they choose to believe".

So, the question would be, who are the poor in spirit, who are those who mourn, the gentle, and those who hunger and thirst for righteousness -- and how did they get that way?

This crazy Rogue. Crazy.

This is nothing more than a circular argument. You are assuming verse 3-6 are true relative to your perspective without FIRST establishing your perspective.