The Discovery of Hidden Mystery Against OSAS

charismaticlady

charismaticlady

Active member
One of the heresies in the Church comes from not understanding writing styles and quirks of the Apostles. John 10:27-29 is the central verses used by Calvinists to prove their theory of the erroneous doctrine of OSAS.

John 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

Compare with the prayer of Jesus to the Father regarding His APOSTLES in John 17:6-19 and notice the key word GIVEN/GAVE. John 10:27-29 is not about us, but about His Apostles.

6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.

9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
 
Azriel said:
Although I totally believe in eternal security I'm not into once saved always saved at all. There is a difference between the two.

redeeminggod.com

I believe in eternal security ... but not "Once Saved, Always Saved"

Is once saved always saved biblical? No. But eternal security is biblical. Once you have eternal life in Jesus, you can never lose it, no matter what.
redeeminggod.com redeeminggod.com
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I just wanted to educate those who use John 10:27-29 for themselves and not just the Apostles who it is actually about. Same with Ephesians 1:1-12 is about the Apostles, not the Ephesians or anyone else. They were the "first to believe."

I am assured of my security also based on 1 John 3:21-22 "21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight."

There are many who keep sinning and think they are saved based solely on being taught OSAS. Sad.
 
charismaticlady said:
I just wanted to educate those who use John 10:27-29 for themselves and not just the Apostles who it is actually about. Same with Ephesians 1:1-12 is about the Apostles, not the Ephesians or anyone else. They were the "first to believe."

I am assured of my security also based on 1 John 3:21-22 "21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight."

There are many who keep sinning and think they are saved based solely on being taught OSAS. Sad.
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You think you no longer sin, which is why you are not going to trust the true salvation.
 
JonC said:
You think you no longer sin, which is why you are not going to trust the true salvation.
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I bet you are as sinless as I am.

Do you have any desire to:
steal
murder
bear false witness to get someone in trouble
covet
commit adultery
worship idols

I don't. But that is because in 1977 Jesus filled me with His Holy Spirit and took all desire to commit adultery and the other commandments out of me. Up until them I was in love with a married man, and couldn't break free. Jesus taking away all desire regarding sins unto death makes us righteous. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith.

Jon, if you are still sinning because you believe you won't stop sinning until after you are out of these bodies, and you die. It will be too late. Our bodies don't have sin in them. They are like puppets and can't sin until your sin nature orders it to. That is why only our spirit and soul is born again of the Spirit making us free from lawlessness. Seeing as our body is like a gun that doesn't do anything on its own, only when the trigger is pulled, that is why it can wait until the resurrection to have an eternal body. It has nothing to do with our salvation.

Now on to perfection - the maturing of all the fruit of the Spirit. John 15:1-4. Notice that even though we may have immature fruit (sins not unto death) we are still called "clean" (sinless). When all the fruit of the Spirit are mature when we are pretty old along with the righteousness, we are then holy.

Revelation 22:11
11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”
 
charismaticlady said:
I bet you are as sinless as I am.

Do you have any desire to:
steal
murder
bear false witness to get someone in trouble
covet
commit adultery
worship idols

I don't. But that is because in 1977 Jesus filled me with His Holy Spirit and took all desire to commit adultery and the other commandments out of me. Up until them I was in love with a married man, and couldn't break free. Jesus taking away all desire regarding sins unto death makes us righteous. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith.

Jon, if you are still sinning because you believe you won't stop sinning until after you are out of these bodies, and you die. It will be too late. Our bodies don't have sin in them. They are like puppets and can't sin until your sin nature orders it to. That is why only our spirit and soul is born again of the Spirit making us free from lawlessness. Seeing as our body is like a gun that doesn't do anything on its own, only when the trigger is pulled, that is why it can wait until the resurrection to have an eternal body. It has nothing to do with our salvation.

Now on to perfection - the maturing of all the fruit of the Spirit. John 15:1-4. Notice that even though we may have immature fruit (sins not unto death) we are still called "clean" (sinless). When all the fruit of the Spirit are mature when we are pretty old along with the righteousness, we are then holy.

Revelation 22:11
11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”
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Paul said as an Apostle he sinned.
 
JonC said:
Paul said as an Apostle he sinned.
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"formerly"

Paul is the one who taught us we are free from sin. Who? Everyone but him? ROFL

12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT
:ROFLMAO:
 
charismaticlady said:
"formerly"

Paul is the one who taught us we are free from sin. Who? Everyone but him? ROFL

12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT
:ROFLMAO:
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Context has nothing to do with remaining sin. Romans 7 is clear He sinned as an Apostle. You sin everyday, but think by living in a land of make believe, you escape it. You Do Not.
 
JonC said:
Context has nothing to do with remaining sin. Romans 7 is clear He sinned as an Apostle. You sin everyday, but think by living in a land of make believe, you escape it. You Do Not.
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No it’s his former life.

Romans 7:7–25 unpacks verse 5, and Romans 8:1–17 unpacks verse 6. In verses 7–25 we see how sin via the law brings death to those in the flesh, and in Romans 8:1–17 we see how the Spirit grants life to those who belong to Jesus Christ. Romans 7:5–6 forecasts what Paul is about to say in remarkably clear terms. The Holy Spirit is never mentioned in Romans 7:7–25. But Paul refers to the Spirit 15 times in Romans 8:1–17, suggesting that the person described in Romans 7:7–25 is one who doesn’t have the Spirit in his life. The essence of what it means to be a Christian is to be indwelt with the Spirit (Rom. 8:9). We see in both Romans 7:14 and 7:18 that the one described is of the “flesh,” one who is still in the old Adam, one who is unregenerate.

The total defeat described in Romans 7 contradicts how Paul describes Christian experience in Romans 6 and 8. Paul proclaims in Romans 6 that we’re no longer slaves to sin (6:6), that we’re free from the sin that enslaved us when we were unbelievers (Rom. 6:16–19).

Romans 7- Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.
4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

A number of objections surface against what I’ve said. Let’s look at two of them briefly. First, how does a reference to unbelievers fit with Romans 7:23 (“For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being”)? Doesn’t such delight and longing for God’s law show that a believer is in view? Not necessarily. Many pious Jews loved God’s law and yet didn’t know God. Paul himself testifies that the Jews have a “zeal for God,” though they lacked knowledge (Rom. 10:2). There can be zeal and delight in the law (witness the Pharisees) when one isn’t truly saved.
Second, Paul shifts from past-tense verbs in Romans 7:7–11 to present-tense verbs in verses 14–25. Doesn’t that prove Christians are in view? Not necessarily. Scholars recognize that present tense doesn’t necessarily designate present time. The temporal nature of an action must be discerned from context, since present-tense verbs, even in the indicative, may be used with reference to the past or even the future.

The tense of the verb doesn’t emphasize time in Romans 7:7–25. Rather, the use of the present tense here fits with the state or condition of the person. Paul is emphasizing one’s captivity, subjugation, and impotence under the law. His use of the present tense doesn’t denote past time but highlights in a vivid way the slavery of life under the law.

If I’m right in the way I interpret this passage, the difference between me and those who see this as Christian experience isn’t great. After all, we both agree that believers fall short in numerous ways and that we struggle daily with sin. The reason we differ is that I see Romans 7:13–25 as describing total defeat, and that isn’t our story as Christians since the Holy Spirit also empowers us to live in a new way. Thomas Schreiner

hope this helps !!!
 
civic said:
No it’s his former life.

Romans 7:7–25 unpacks verse 5, and Romans 8:1–17 unpacks verse 6. In verses 7–25 we see how sin via the law brings death to those in the flesh, and in Romans 8:1–17 we see how the Spirit grants life to those who belong to Jesus Christ. Romans 7:5–6 forecasts what Paul is about to say in remarkably clear terms. The Holy Spirit is never mentioned in Romans 7:7–25. But Paul refers to the Spirit 15 times in Romans 8:1–17, suggesting that the person described in Romans 7:7–25 is one who doesn’t have the Spirit in his life. The essence of what it means to be a Christian is to be indwelt with the Spirit (Rom. 8:9). We see in both Romans 7:14 and 7:18 that the one described is of the “flesh,” one who is still in the old Adam, one who is unregenerate.

The total defeat described in Romans 7 contradicts how Paul describes Christian experience in Romans 6 and 8. Paul proclaims in Romans 6 that we’re no longer slaves to sin (6:6), that we’re free from the sin that enslaved us when we were unbelievers (Rom. 6:16–19).

Romans 7- Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.
4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

A number of objections surface against what I’ve said. Let’s look at two of them briefly. First, how does a reference to unbelievers fit with Romans 7:23 (“For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being”)? Doesn’t such delight and longing for God’s law show that a believer is in view? Not necessarily. Many pious Jews loved God’s law and yet didn’t know God. Paul himself testifies that the Jews have a “zeal for God,” though they lacked knowledge (Rom. 10:2). There can be zeal and delight in the law (witness the Pharisees) when one isn’t truly saved.
Second, Paul shifts from past-tense verbs in Romans 7:7–11 to present-tense verbs in verses 14–25. Doesn’t that prove Christians are in view? Not necessarily. Scholars recognize that present tense doesn’t necessarily designate present time. The temporal nature of an action must be discerned from context, since present-tense verbs, even in the indicative, may be used with reference to the past or even the future.

The tense of the verb doesn’t emphasize time in Romans 7:7–25. Rather, the use of the present tense here fits with the state or condition of the person. Paul is emphasizing one’s captivity, subjugation, and impotence under the law. His use of the present tense doesn’t denote past time but highlights in a vivid way the slavery of life under the law.

If I’m right in the way I interpret this passage, the difference between me and those who see this as Christian experience isn’t great. After all, we both agree that believers fall short in numerous ways and that we struggle daily with sin. The reason we differ is that I see Romans 7:13–25 as describing total defeat, and that isn’t our story as Christians since the Holy Spirit also empowers us to live in a new way. Thomas Schreiner

hope this helps !!!
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No...Paul is a Christian in Romans 7. Unsaved Jews do not delight in the law of God as God would have them do, because unsaved Jews do not have the Spirit of God.
 
charismaticlady said:
One of the heresies in the Church comes from not understanding writing styles and quirks of the Apostles. John 10:27-29 is the central verses used by Calvinists to prove their theory of the erroneous doctrine of OSAS.

John 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

Compare with the prayer of Jesus to the Father regarding His APOSTLES in John 17:6-19 and notice the key word GIVEN/GAVE. John 10:27-29 is not about us, but about His Apostles.

6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.

9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
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there is a eternal security but it is not a license to sin.. peter wrote our salvation is kept by the power of God.. that you / me any born again Christian can bank on and NO man can pluck us out of the fathers hand .............NOT even the devil our adversary. one thing i dont have to do i beg and plead for God to keep me saved !!!!! my Job is to repent and follow the guidelines of 1 john 1:9 .

i will try to explain it like this tonight i will go to bed saved and come morning i will still be saved. a person not walking in the Light will face some heavy chastisement .. now if one says teh father does not chastise them . then are are illegitimate
 
1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.
 
JonC said:
Context has nothing to do with remaining sin. Romans 7 is clear He sinned as an Apostle. You sin everyday, but think by living in a land of make believe, you escape it. You Do Not.
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Again, context, context, context! Read the highlighted sections. Calvinism is a cult, like Mormanism, Hinduism.

Romans 7:5-7
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Verses 14-25 is what it was like being UNDER THE LAW with SIN IN YOUR FLESH. But the context above is Paul now saying "when we were in the flesh" meaning past tense.

Next chapter Romans 8:2
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

Even the chapter before 7 shows we are dead to sin. What Calvinists do is take verses out of context. They don't care to study the whole of Scripture.

Romans 6:
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
ezra said:
there is a eternal security but it is not a license to sin.. peter wrote our salvation is kept by the power of God.. that you / me any born again Christian can bank on and NO man can pluck us out of the fathers hand .............NOT even the devil our adversary. one thing i dont have to do i beg and plead for God to keep me saved !!!!! my Job is to repent and follow the guidelines of 1 john 1:9 .

i will try to explain it like this tonight i will go to bed saved and come morning i will still be saved. a person not walking in the Light will face some heavy chastisement .. now if one says teh father does not chastise them . then are are illegitimate
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Yes, there is eternal security for those who keep the commandments written on our heart.

1 John 3:21-24.
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

(also to @civic for your benefit)

I see you are believing John 10 is about us, but it is not. Jesus is speaking about His Apostles, those given to Jesus by God. "Given" is the key word and by the Father to Jesus. Read the prayer to God about His Apostles in John 17 and see it is the only time he uses the key word.

John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

John 17:

Jesus Prays for His Disciples (See key word "given" to Jesus by the Father.)​

6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

Jesus Prays for All Believers​

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
 
charismaticlady said:
Yes, there is eternal security for those who keep the commandments written on our heart.

1 John 3:21-24.
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

(also to @civic for your benefit)

I see you are believing John 10 is about us, but it is not. Jesus is speaking about His Apostles, those given to Jesus by God. "Given" is the key word and by the Father to Jesus. Read the prayer to God about His Apostles in John 17 and see it is the only time he uses the key word.

John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

John 17:

Jesus Prays for His Disciples (See key word "given" to Jesus by the Father.)​

6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

Jesus Prays for All Believers​

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
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Many also misinterpret Jesus when He promised His disciples that when the Holy Spirit came He would guide them into all truth and that He would remind them of everything Jesus had taught them. That was a direct promise to them not everyone. They were the inspired writers of the New Testament which contains all truth which they received from Christ through the Holy Spirit of promise which He was sending to them in His absence.
 
civic said:
That was a direct promise to them not everyone. They were the inspired writers of the New Testament which contains all truth which they received from Christ through the Holy Spirit of promise which He was sending to them in His absence.
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i disagree on the promise to them only.. the promise is to all who are saved.
 
ezra said:
i disagree on the promise to them only.. the promise is to all who are saved.
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denominations alone are proof positive believers do not know all truth- Christianity cannot even agree on what doctrines are essential to salvation proving they do not know all truth. I'm sure you know that much is true by witnessing it yourself.

And not a single human being today knows all truth, not one- neither you, I, any Theologian. Scholar, Pastor, Linguistic expert with biblical languages etc..... We all believe error in some way, shape or form with the doctrines we believe.

Calvinism/Arminianism is proof
Eschatology is proof
Soteriology is proof
Baptism is proof
The Law is proof
OSAS is proof
Atonement different views are proof

And the list goes on. No one agrees of what is and is not true.
 

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