brightfame52
Well-known member
Once one is saved by Christ, they believe.
The death of Jesus was a sacrifice
- Thread starter Joe
- Start date
brightfame52
Well-known member
Repentance is for them that are saved, its obedience after you saved
Sorry that verse does not state a man comes to initial faith after being born again
It simply notes the fact those who are born again are believers
Faith precedes regeneration
Regeneration by definition is the impartation of life
The following verses show faith precedes life
John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
John 6:57 (KJV)
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
Regeneration makes one a child of God. Born of God -
One is made a child of God through faith
John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Galatians 3:26 (KJV)
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
John 12:36 (KJV)
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
Regeneration is a spiritual resurrection.
We are raised spiritually through faith
Colossians 2:12 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel
James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation
Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
it is through faith we are saved
EPH 2:8 (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
.
Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin
Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
which requires both faith and repentance
Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Acts 5:31 (KJV)
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
sorry, that is the reverse of what scripture states
1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
brightfame52
Well-known member
brightfame52
Well-known member
One has to be saved in order to be saved, and Jn 20:31 is written to believers, scripture isn't written to unregenerate lost people.
Sorry but you are in error and fail to address rebuttal
That verse does not state a man comes to initial faith after being born again
It simply notes the fact those who are born again are believers
Faith precedes regeneration
Regeneration by definition is the impartation of life
The following verses show faith precedes life
John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
John 6:57 (KJV)
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
Regeneration makes one a child of God. Born of God -
One is made a child of God through faith
John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Galatians 3:26 (KJV)
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
John 12:36 (KJV)
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
Regeneration is a spiritual resurrection.
We are raised spiritually through faith
Colossians 2:12 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel
James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation
Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
it is through faith we are saved
EPH 2:8 (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
.
Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin
Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
which requires both faith and repentance
Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Acts 5:31 (KJV)
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Sorry believers already believe
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
He does not need to tell them to believe to receive eternal life
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
God is Author of all that occurs in creation. He is the Author of good and evil, of life and death, and He is the One who slay His own Son. God is Sovereign, not man. When we turn from a man-centered theology to a God-centered theology all these things become clear.
The plea or cry, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do" is the conclusion of His plea or prayer in John 17, that is, that God the Father is Author of Jesus' life as He is of His death. "For this cause was I sent into the world" is a statement by Jesus that should dispel all claims by men of being the culprit of Jesus' arrest, trial, and eventual condemnation to death on a Roman cross, a decision made by Almighty God in choosing the most horrific method of execution known to man, something only God could orchestrate.
"Father, forgive them" are the words of the High Priest as the sacrifice is being made and is directed towards those whose names are written [by God the Father] in the book of life of the lamb slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world (Rev. 13: 8.) They were not directed towards the Romans who crucified Him nor the religious leaders that condemned Him, nor the crowd of people that witnessed the act, but meant for God's elect chosen people whom He contemplated in Himself before He created heaven, earth, and man.
God the Father ordained the death of His Son and was actively involved in its execution, not merely "allowed it to happen" which is an affront to His Sovereignty for it takes away God's Authorship in creating man and the taking out to Himself from the mass of men a people to Himself. God is directly involved in everything that happens in creation and not merely sitting on the sidelines reacting to the plans and plays of men who break huddle and calls out audibles because they see the hand of God in His defense on the field of play. God is both offense and offensive in all He does, and in every act He performs comes with a defense built in that removes all accusations of violating man's will or being called for "interference."
No, it was to appease God's anger and wrath. He (Jesus) was the propitiation for our sins. God's anger for sin was before on display when we "awake" to find the "earth without form and darkness on the face of the deep." a far cry from the preceding text in which God created the heaven and the earth" and it was complete. A period at the end of a creative sentence.
And yet wrath will be on exhibit at the Great White Throne Judgment. All sin is against God and all sin unatoned is against God's righteousness which on one side of the coin is described in the Law, and on the other side declaring His justice for that is the role among others of the Holy Spirit in the world today, "(8) And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: (9) Of sin, because they believe not on me; (10) Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; (11) Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged" Jn 16:7–11.
What many fail to see in this verse is God's judgment of two things: sin and righteousness. For both are judged. God's Righteousness, and man's sin. One is absolved, the other is guilty. One is Righteousness that joins the Son to the Father and He is seen no more, the other is judgment because man, the prince of this world, has been judged and is wanting of sentence of eternal separation from God.
Once you impede upon God's Sovereignty and remove God's Authorship in His plan of redemption of His people from Him and remand it to men, then guilt first falls upon men in general and then upon the Romans and finally upon the Jews. But God is the Author of salvation for salvation is of the LORD. And after the new week in creation began God went back to work and as the Son saw His Father working, He, too, worked also and the result was not the cross at Calvary, but the open tomb found empty. For when He cried out, "It is finished!" then to the tomb He took His rest. And on the first day of the new week, it was the women of all people that found His tomb empty, and a work well done. "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased" is the declaration and the salvation that was of the LORD was now a salvation [applied] to the Jews.
"...for the prince of this world [man] cometh, and hath nothing in me."
In other words, "I did this, not you."
brightfame52
Well-known member
Sorry you failed to address any rebuttal
brightfame52
Well-known member
Thats why scripture was written, for believers to believe. The Sheep 1 Jn 5:13
“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”
You are confused
John did not write to believers that they may believe
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Thats why scripture was written, for believers to believe. The Sheep 1 Jn 5:13
“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”
John did not write to believers that they may believe
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
You simply ignore this verse which was to tell men to believe
civic
Well-known member
yep he was addressing unbelievers with the gospel call to believe and repent to be saved, have life. This is consistent with the teaching of the Baptist, Jesus and the Apostles.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Thats why scripture was written, for believers to believe. The Sheep 1 Jn 5:13
“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”
civic
Well-known member
No sheep in the text nice try. No one is saved or justified until they believe.
brightfame52
Well-known member
They mentioned in Jn 10, Who did Christ come that they might have life Jn 10
7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they[Sheep] might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
civic
Well-known member
Yep John 10 is not 1 John 5 nice conflating the two
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