Tensions in Calvin’s Idea of Predestination

TomL said:
You assume that it is because of grace it must reflect unconditional election/predetermination from before the foundation of the earth.
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Rom 4:16 is about Faith which is by grace. Faith is of Grace also in Eph 2:8, Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

Also in Rom 4:16 its crystal clear to me that Faith by Grace is limited to the elect seed.
 
TomL said:
Peter, Phillip and Paul baptized

Acts 2:38 (KJV 1900) — 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Acts 8:26–38 (KJV 1900) — 26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert. 27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, 28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. 29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. 30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. 32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: 33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. 34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

1 Corinthians 1:10–16 (KJV 1900) — 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
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corrupt scroll.
 
brightfame52 said:
Rom 4:16 is about Faith which is by grace. Faith is of Grace also in Eph 2:8, Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

Also in Rom 4:16 its crystal clear to me that Faith by Grace is limited to the elect seed.
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The purpose of the elect is almost like being a front line in paradise and attending to God in paradise .

they have a very special job but the elect aren't the only ones that are going to paradise ... most of Jacob is going to paradise after trib!

but they will have to go through trib .

and who is Jacob most of modern Christianity including the evangelicals and especially their pastors... why ?

because they will not understand and they are making statements leading their congregations into trib.

due to their blah blah blah which is all nonsense 'saved already.'

Will many of jacob (most modern christianity!! regardless the sect!) go to eden paradise ?

many of them yes, hopefully all...
but they're not doing what God asks
because that saved idea of I'm saved already is a Haughty mess. The pastors, haughtiest of all, risk never going at all!!!

So. Will jacob go to heaven (eden)?

many of them will
but... they're not doing what God asks
but few pastors...

pastors are preaching antichrist - the sealed vision, the corrupt scroll, the sorcery kjv - so yes evangelicalism is antichrist - it's not some entity,
it's modern Christianity and evangelicalism included...

so many are going into trib.
 
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FreeInChrist said:
www.thegospelcoalition.org

Tensions in Calvin’s Idea of Predestination

A couple of weeks ago I had an opportunity of talking with a friend about the credibility of the Christian faith. When the conversation became somewhat personal, he bluntly said: ‘You don’t need to urge me to consider Christianity. I know there is a thing called ‘predestination’ in your...
www.thegospelcoalition.org www.thegospelcoalition.org
Any color changes are mine for emphasis.

ARTICLES

Volume 6 - Issue 1​

Tensions in Calvin’s Idea of Predestination​

By Wing-hung Lam
A couple of weeks ago I had an opportunity of talking with a friend about the credibility of the Christian faith. When the conversation became somewhat personal, he bluntly said: ‘You don’t need to urge me to consider Christianity. I know there is a thing called ‘predestination’ in your religion. Now, if I am elected by God, I will be saved with or without your persuasion. If I am not chosen to heaven, why waste your time to convince me of the Christian belief? In either way, human effort has little place.’ The theological implication of this comment is significant.
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What if predestination is not God's choice of one being unconditionally elected into salvation or one being rejected from a possibility of such?

What if predestination is a determination of the final destiny of those who either choose to follow after God or reject doing so?
 
TomL said:
What if predestination is not God's choice of one being unconditionally elected into salvation or one being rejected from a possibility of such?

What if predestination is a determination of the final destiny of those who either choose to follow after God or reject doing so?
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"What if predestination is a determination of the final destiny of those who either choose to follow after God or reject doing so?"

Do you mean if this predestination thing is part of free-will?

Well.... this idea to me seems like a quasi-completion of Calvin's teaching on his predestination which states

John Calvin's doctrine of predestination teaches that God has eternally chosen some individuals for salvation while others are destined for damnation, a concept known as double predestination.

Not that this is what you are describing, but I don't see predestination as part of God's plans in free will.

I do believe though that those who do not believe will be punished, and those who defy God with their life styles also, but not sure I can chalk that up to predestination.... but maybe. If a punishment is part of the plan, maybe it would be appropriate to
mark that under predestination? Just seems awkward to me though.

Any further ideas from you on this?
 
TomL said:
What if predestination is not God's choice of one being unconditionally elected into salvation or one being rejected from a possibility of such?

What if predestination is a determination of the final destiny of those who either choose to follow after God or reject doing so?
Click to expand...

The judgment of the choices predetermined.....

Which fits nicely within the context of the Immutability of God's Character.
 
FreeInChrist said:
"What if predestination is a determination of the final destiny of those who either choose to follow after God or reject doing so?"

Do you mean if this predestination thing is part of free-will?

Well.... this idea to me seems like a quasi-completion of Calvin's teaching on his predestination which states

John Calvin's doctrine of predestination teaches that God has eternally chosen some individuals for salvation while others are destined for damnation, a concept known as double predestination.

Not that this is what you are describing, but I don't see predestination as part of God's plans in free will.

I do believe though that those who do not believe will be punished, and those who defy God with their life styles also, but not sure I can chalk that up to predestination.... but maybe. If a punishment is part of the plan, maybe it would be appropriate to
mark that under predestination? Just seems awkward to me though.

Any further ideas from you on this?
Click to expand...

Maybe consider the context of "relationships". If this were just within the choice of a single individual making their own choices that only affect themselves, then we might would see it this way. To me, this is another issue within the context of the errors of Calvinism in what they teach and believe concerning predestination.

No man lives or dies to himself.
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

Our choices (humanity) all work together and form an outcome that magnifies the impact and judgments of evil. Abel suffered because of his brother. We all impact one another at some level or another. At one time, we could get away from one another and live peaceably among those like minded. Not that I promote Mormonism about that is exactly what they did. It worked for them but no one can get away from one another today. That is what happens from time to time throughout history and mankind creates their own fates in the things they choose.
 
FreeInChrist said:
"What if predestination is a determination of the final destiny of those who either choose to follow after God or reject doing so?"

Do you mean if this predestination thing is part of free-will?

Well.... this idea to me seems like a quasi-completion of Calvin's teaching on his predestination which states

John Calvin's doctrine of predestination teaches that God has eternally chosen some individuals for salvation while others are destined for damnation, a concept known as double predestination.

Not that this is what you are describing, but I don't see predestination as part of God's plans in free will.

I do believe though that those who do not believe will be punished, and those who defy God with their life styles also, but not sure I can chalk that up to predestination.... but maybe. If a punishment is part of the plan, maybe it would be appropriate to
mark that under predestination? Just seems awkward to me though.

Any further ideas from you on this?
Click to expand...
Predestination can be what you stated here

those who do not believe will be punished, and those who defy God with their life styles also,

and those who believe can be predestined to eternal life.
 
brightfame52 said:
Except for the elect, they are safe from Gods wrath and punishment even in unbelief and being an enemy of God by wicked works
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being evangelical is not equivalent to being part of the 144k...
many who you may not approve of , God may well approve of .

Only Christ will judge, not evangelical statements or pastors.
 

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