Starts Now The Deity of Jesus Christ True or False?

[Peterlag]

I have a few minutes before I must leave.

Jesus Christ was a complex person, 100% man through Mary his mother; and he was 100% God, by the very fact God begotten /conceived him by his power in the womb of Mary his mother without the natural use of a sperm by another man.

Jeremiah 31:22​

“How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man.”

Luke 1:34​

“Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”

His humanity could sin, his deity could not. Yet, the two never worked together in order to live a sinless life, he did so by faith and his love for the truth being God's only begotten Son in the manner in which he was conceived by the power of the God.

The Word, Who is God, joined a human nature in the person of Jesus of Nazareth (John 1:1-3,14) This is the great mystery of godliness ~ God Himself was manifest in the flesh (1st Timothy 3:16).

Jesus Christ is also known as Emmanuel – God with us (Isaiah 7:14 cp. Matthew 1:23). Jesus Christ is the human body and nature indwelt by the fullness of the Godhead (Colossians 2:8,9)

The Deity of Jesus Christ ~ He is truly and fully God ~ Scripture affirms plainly and unequivocally. To reject this is to reject the word of God, and be cast into teh lake of fire, which is the second death. The Word is God without qualification; the Word became Jesus of Nazareth by joining His flesh.

It is another straw man argument of Rome to accuse us of denying the full deity of Jesus Christ, for it is their doctrine of a begotten god that corrupts the Bible message of His full Godhead. We only can say that Jesus Christ’s divine nature is fully Jehovah God without qualification. They must say that His divine nature is begotten and generated, yielding a begotten God. Only the ignorant or malicious accuse us of denying the full deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. God is a Spirit. Jesus Christ had a body. Jesus Christ is God, but God is not Jesus Christ.

The humanity of Jesus Christ ~ He is truly and fully man ~ Scripture also unequivocally teaches.

Mary conceived and bore a human child similar to all other mothers (Matthew 1:18-20; Luke 2:23). The only mediator between God and man is the man Christ Jesus (1st Timothy 2:5 cp Job 9:32,33). God assumed flesh and blood to destroy Satan’s work and be our high priest (Hebrews 2:14-17) . Peter stop saying no one has answered your question, it is nothing more than a fallacy you are employing hoping folks will buy into it. Only those deceived like you will.

Jesus was made in the likeness of men after having been in the form of God (Philippians 2:5-11).

The hypostatic union is the combination of God the Word and a human nature in a single Being. God is a Spirit (John 4:24), but a human body was prepared for God to possess (Hebrews 10:5). Neither Christ’s divinity (John 8:58) nor His humanity (Hebrews 4:15) was changed by their union. But He is not fully Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour without His body (Luke 2;12; 24;39).

Again, Jesus of Nazareth is the complex Person of God and man ~ He possesses both complete natures.

This point is very important to properly understand God’s record of His Son Jesus Christ. The attributes of one nature are often ascribed to a name derived from the other nature. Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man, so His Person involves divine and human characteristics. Jesus Christ fully experienced all the aspects of human growth, weakness, and temptation. Jesus Christ, referred to as God, a Spirit, purchased the church with His BLOOD (Acts 20:28). Jesus Christ, the Son of God, DIED (Galatians 2:20). But only His humanity died (1st Timothy 1:17; 6:16). Jesus, the Son of man, was OMNIPRESENT (John 3:13). Only His Deity could be so (Jeremiah 23:24). Jesus, the Son of man, WAS WITH GOD (John 6:62). Only His divinity could be so (John 1:1). Jesus, the Son, is SUBJECT TO GOD (1st Corinthians 15:28). Only His humanity will be subject to God. Jesus, the Son, had a MOTHER NAMED MARY (Matthew 1:21). Mary is "not" the mother of God! Jesus claimed to be BEFORE ABRAHAM (John 8:58). Only His Deity was eternal (Micah 5:2). Jesus grew in WISDOM AND STATURE (Luke 2:52). Only His humanity was ignorant (Colossians 2:3). Jesus slept (Mark 4:38), but only in His humanity; for His Deity could not sleep (Psalm 121:4). Jesus thirsted, ate, and did all the things a human nature does, but which Deity cannot do.

The supposed “dual nature” of Christ is never stated in the Bible and contradicts the Bible and the laws of nature that God set up. Nothing can be 100% of two different things. Jesus cannot be 100% God and 100% man, and that is not a “mystery” but it's a contradiction and a talk of nonsense. A fatal flaw in the “dual nature” theory is that both natures in Jesus would have had to have known about each other. The Jesus God nature would have known about his human nature, and (according to what the Trinitarians teach) his human nature knew he was God, which explains why Trinitarians say Jesus taught that he was God. The book of Hebrews is wrong when it says Jesus was “made like his brothers in every respect” if Jesus knew he was God (Hebrews 2:17). Jesus was not made like other humans in every way if Jesus was 100% God and 100% human at the same time. In fact, he would have been very different from other humans in many respects.

For example, in his God nature he would not have been tempted by anything (James 1:13), and his human part would not have been tempted either since his human nature had access to that same knowledge and assurance. It is written he was tempted in every way like we all are (Hebrews 4:15). Furthermore, God does not have the problems, uncertainty, and anxieties that humans do, and Jesus would not have had those either if he knew he was God. Also, Luke 2:52 says Jesus grew in wisdom, but his human part would have had access to his God part, which would have given him infinite and inherent wisdom. Hebrews says Jesus “learned obedience” by the things that he suffered, but again, the human part of Jesus would have accessed the God part of him and he would not have needed to learn anything.

Kenotic Trinitarians claim that Jesus put off or limited His God nature, but that theology only developed to try to reconcile some of the verses about what Christ experienced on the earth. The idea that God can limit what He knows or experiences as God is not taught or explained in Scripture, and Kenotic Trinitarianism has been rejected by orthodox Trinitarians for exactly that reason. The very simple way to explain the “difficult verses” that Kenotic Trinitarians are trying to explain about Christ’s human experiences is to realize that Jesus was a fully human being, and not both God and man at the same time. Some assert we have to take the Trinity “by faith” but that is not biblical either.

 

[Peterlag]

They knew He claimed to be God

So then it's true that...

God gave the Scriptures to the Jewish people, and the Jewish religion and worship that comes from that revelation does not contain any reference to or teachings about a triune God. Surely the Jewish people were qualified to read and understand it, but they never saw the doctrine of the Trinity,

 

[360watt]

So then it's true that...

God gave the Scriptures to the Jewish people, and the Jewish religion and worship that comes from that revelation does not contain any reference to or teachings about a triune God. Surely the Jewish people were qualified to read and understand it, but they never saw the doctrine of the Trinity,

'Let US make man in OUR image' in Genesis.

The designation LORD is defined in a plural sense.

The Word was with the Father and the Spirit at creation.

There is more. The point being.. the Triune God is right there in the Hebrew scriptures when considering context.

 

[Peterlag]

'Let US make man in OUR image' in Genesis.

The designation LORD is defined in a plural sense.

The Word was with the Father and the Spirit at creation.

There is more. The point being.. the Triune God is right there in the Hebrew scriptures when considering context.

So it's true... the Jews knew he was God and thus set out to kill God. seems a bit strange does it not?

 

[Runningman]

They wanted to kill Him for the claim He made ... not because they believed Him to be God.

Jesus's self identity led the Pharisees to accuse Him of thinking he had equality with the Father.

Jesus also claimed equality for Himself through accepting the title of Son of God and referencing the great I AM when challenged by the Pharisees.

They didn't think He was God..they thought He was blaspheming.

This you know obviously.. but it does not mean Jesus was not God.

The point is they wanted to kill Him because of His claim to deity.

They didn't want to kill Jesus for what he said, but rather it was their false accusation that Jesus had said what they claimed they said. They had protocol and couldn't just outright aprehend Jesus. They had a process and they needed a good reason. You should be able to look at how Jesus always responded to their accusations and it was always to the cotrary - meaning Jesus denied that he had ever claimed to be God in the first place. Rather, Jesus always said he is the son of God and that they, too, are the sons of God, as well, just as Scripture states.

So how can they accuse him of blapshemy just for repeating what the Scripture says? They cannot rightly accuse him of wrongdoing for being Scriptural.

Contrary to their claims Jesus had claimed to be God, Jesus said he is a son of God just like they are. Jesus even called their words an "accusation" against him. An accusation is charge of wrong doing. This shows that Jesus had awareness that claiming to be God would have indeed been a sin. Therfore Jesus never claimed to be God and would have sinned if he did and God never came to earth as a man.

John 10
33“We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, make Yourself out to be God.”
34Jesus replied, “Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’? 35If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world? How then can you accuse Me of blasphemy for stating that I am the Son of God?

 

[Runningman]

@Runningman

But you are, and you will lose this fight. If you refuse sir, to honour the Son of God, AS YOU HONOUR God, then in truth you have yet to give God his honour.

John 5:23​

“That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.”

Read this verse again and again, and again. and tell me if you are truly giving Jesus Christ is rightful place as:

Romans 9:5​

“Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.”

As time progresses, we will occasionally revisit your claims and see how they age. They will be used against you when you are running out of talking points.

As far as John 5:23 goes, you didn't include the context. It's about honoring the judgements of Jesus, which I already do. I hope you do, too. It's not about any other set of criteria aside from judgement.

John 5
22Furthermore, the Father judges no one, but has assigned all judgment to the Son, 23so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

Romans 9:5 in the KJV you quoted makes grammatical distinction between God and Jesus, which is something we are saying, not what you should be saying. The KJV will not help you the best with trying to establish the trinity. Most of your constituents have already caught on to this and have moved on to other versions.

 

[Runningman]

'Let US make man in OUR image' in Genesis.

The designation LORD is defined in a plural sense.

The Word was with the Father and the Spirit at creation.

There is more. The point being.. the Triune God is right there in the Hebrew scriptures when considering context.

Genesis 1 does not define God in the plural because it does not say the "us" the God was with is a compound god or trinity. It is evident that the writer of Genesis knew God is a singular person, a He, because that's how God is identified in Genesis 1:27 and everywhere thereafter in the entire Bible.

To prove this, you will not find one, no not one, example of God being referred to as a "they" or "them" in the entire Bible because God is not an "us." God is a singular He, Him, and His. God is Unitarian.

 

[360watt]

So it's true... the Jews knew he was God and thus set out to kill God. seems a bit strange does it not?

They were wanting a Messiah that would be an all conquering king. Not a sacrificial Lamb. They also thought their works were making them righteous rather than being justified by faith in God.

Some Jews realized Jesus as the Messiah and worshipped Him. Peter and Paul are examples among many others. They saw the Isaiah 53 prophecy and what Jesus was doing and didn't see it as blasphemy, but fulfillment.

The Pharisees could have accepted Jesus as the Messiah if they had humbled themselves. But were 'a brood of vipers'.

So it is not so clear cut that reading the Hebew scriptures they would automatically see God as purely unitarian.

 

[DavidTree]

@Keiw1 @Peterlag @Runningman

Question: How many times does God have to speak a word/message/declaration for it to become Truth???

 

[Peterlag]

They were wanting a Messiah that would be an all conquering king. Not a sacrificial Lamb. They also thought their works were making them righteous rather than being justified by faith in God.

Some Jews realized Jesus as the Messiah and worshipped Him. Peter and Paul are examples among many others. They saw the Isaiah 53 prophecy and what Jesus was doing and didn't see it as blasphemy, but fulfillment.

The Pharisees could have accepted Jesus as the Messiah if they had humbled themselves. But were 'a brood of vipers'.

So it is not so clear cut that reading the Hebew scriptures they would automatically see God as purely unitarian.

You can't have it both ways. Either I'm right that the Jews never saw a trinity all throughout the Old Testament. Or they did and knew he was God and thus, tried to kill God. Which does not fit with their religion.

 

[360watt]

You can't have it both ways. Either I'm right that the Jews never saw a trinity all throughout the Old Testament. Or they did and knew he was God and thus, tried to kill God. Which does not fit with their religion.

Well some Jews did see Jesus as the Messiah and worshipped Him.

 

[Runningman]

Well some Jews did see Jesus as the Messiah and worshipped Him.

None of them worshipped him in spirit and truth because he isn't God in the flesh. Spirit and truth worship is reserved only for the Father and Scripture teaches that only the true worshippers worship the Father and spirit and truth. That means the true worshippers don't worship Jesus.

John 4
23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

 

[360watt]

None of them worshipped him in spirit and truth because he isn't God in the flesh. Spirit and truth worship is reserved only for the Father and Scripture teaches that only the true worshippers worship the Father and spirit and truth. That means the true worshippers don't worship Jesus.

John 4
23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

This is a reference to Jesus! This is what Jesus is identifying with in this passage.

The woman is speaking of the Messiah as the one to worship.

Jesus identifies as this being.

Break time for me.

 

[Runningman]

This is a reference to Jesus! This is what Jesus is identifying with in this passage.Break time for me.

Spirit and truth worship has no reference to bowing at the knee or being prostrate. Jesus taught this is something only for the Father. I am pretty sure the Father isn't looking for a bunch of knee-bowers and mouth-breathers to move through the motions for Him. He only wants the true worshippers in spirit and truth. Jesus never said he wanted anything like that or that true worship is for a trinity.

 

[Peterlag]

Well some Jews did see Jesus as the Messiah and worshipped Him.

We are referring to the ones who killed him that you folks keep telling me every hour that they knew he was God.

 

[Peterlag]

“all authority” was given to him in heaven and on the earth (Matthew 28:18)...

He ascended to the right hand of God and assumed joint rulership of the cosmos as the Lord. First Corinthians 15:24-28 describes this present dynamic relationship.

“Then cometh the end, when he [Christ] shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he [Christ] shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

For he [Christ] must reign, till he [God] hath put all enemies under his [Christ's] feet.

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

For he [God] hath put all things under his [Christ's] feet. But when he [God] said all things are put under him, [Christ] it is manifest [obvious] that he [God] is excepted, [God is the only exception] which did put all things under him [Christ].

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, [Christ] then [not now, but at some future time] shall the Son also himself be subject unto him [God] that put all things under him, [Christ] that God may be all in all."

All of this was set up a very long time ago and it will not change because of the solid principles it's based upon. The Scripture fits perfectly, reason is preserved, God is glorified, Christ is magnified, and the individual Christian can enjoy the benefits both now, and throughout all eternity.

 

[Runningman]

“all authority” was given to him in heaven and on the earth (Matthew 28:18)...

He ascended to the right hand of God and assumed joint rulership of the cosmos as the Lord. First Corinthians 15:24-28 describes this present dynamic relationship.

“Then cometh the end, when he [Christ] shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he [Christ] shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

For he [Christ] must reign, till he [God] hath put all enemies under his [Christ's] feet.

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

For he [God] hath put all things under his [Christ's] feet. But when he [God] said all things are put under him, [Christ] it is manifest [obvious] that he [God] is excepted, [God is the only exception] which did put all things under him [Christ].

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, [Christ] then [not now, but at some future time] shall the Son also himself be subject unto him [God] that put all things under him, [Christ] that God may be all in all."

All of this was set up a very long time ago and it will not change because of the solid principles it's based upon. The Scripture fits perfectly, reason is preserved, God is glorified, Christ is magnified, and the individual Christian can enjoy the benefits both now, and throughout all eternity.

"He must reign, till..." so... that's a temporary reign at the right hand of God. Jesus is waiting for God to complete the mission.

Psalm 110
1 The LORD said to my Lord:
“Sit at My right hand
until I make Your enemies
a footstool for Your feet.”

Hebrews 10
12But when this Priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, He sat down at the right hand of God. 13Since that time, He waits for His enemies to be made a footstool for His feet,

 

[360watt]

Is the Trinity in the Hebrew Scriptures? - Jews for Jesus

Though, it's often held to be heretical in modern Judaism, the idea of a God being three-in-one actually has its roots in foundational Judaism.

jewsforjesus.org

 

[Keiw1]

You know I never thought of that. Jesus could have sinned. The part I never thought about was could God sin? Is there a verse that says God could sin?

God could never nor would ever sin.

 

[Peterlag]

God could never nor would ever sin.

Then we have a problem. A big problem. Because Jesus could have sinned and was tempted to sin. And God cannot sin or even be tempted to sin.