Starts Now The Deity of Jesus Christ True or False?

[Peterlag]

The Word was God and the Word became flesh.

When the Word that was God became flesh, God humbled Himself as a man = Philippians 2:5

It was in this capacity, as a man, by which Father God allowed for His God Son to be challenged by the Devil = Matthew 4:1-11

The word "logos" (Word) denotes (I) "the expression of thought" as embodying a conception or idea. λόγος "logos" is something said (including the thought). So the word "logos" means an expression of thought. It makes perfect sense if we use this understanding everywhere the word "logos" is used. So in John 1:1 the Word is not Jesus, but rather it became flesh, which is God's expression of thought or plan that became flesh with the coming of Jesus Christ.

 

[Keiw1]

Jesus' oneness is something flawed followers of Jesus can't achieve, because He ascended.

All who know Jesus, believe Jesus over dogmas.

 

[Keiw1]

Absolutely true when the Word that was God left Heaven and emptied Himself to be a man.
As a man on earth, His Father was Greater.

Not hard to understand.

Well why do you think once this is a reality=Rev 21:1--Jesus must hand the kingdom( 1Cor 15:24-28) back to his God and Father and subject himself)))= forever= 0 equality.

 

[Keiw1]

Yes. Very intriguing. God could never sin, it's impossible, but Jesus experienced temptation to contradict God's will. Sounds like God didn't come to earth as a man.

He didn't, God sent his son.

 

[Runningman]

The Word was God and the Word became flesh.

When the Word that was God became flesh, God humbled Himself as a man = Philippians 2:5

It was in this capacity, as a man, by which Father God allowed for His God Son to be challenged by the Devil = Matthew 4:1-11

This is not what the Bible says. You shouldn't just make things up. This debate was organized for us to really get to the bottom of this using Scripture.

 

[Peterlag]

Well why do you think once this is a reality=Rev 21:1--Jesus must hand the kingdom( 1Cor 15:24-28) back to his God and Father and subject himself)))= forever= 0 equality.

Yeah even in his resurrected body he is still submitting to God...1 Corinthians 15:24-28.

 

[360watt]

Philippians 2:6​

“Who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,”

 

[DavidTree]

This is not what the Bible says. You shouldn't just make things up. This debate was organized for us to really get to the bottom of this using Scripture.

All that i posted is EXACT to scripture

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

[DavidTree]

Well why do you think once this is a reality=Rev 21:1--Jesus must hand the kingdom( 1Cor 15:24-28) back to his God and Father and subject himself)))= forever= 0 equality.

Because HE became flesh and blood.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

[DavidTree]

This is not what the Bible says. You shouldn't just make things up.

Never accuse without first getting to the TRUTH

This debate was organized for us to really get to the bottom of this using Scripture.

'to get to the bottom'
To determine the cause or source of something or solve the mystery of something.

To discover the origin or the fundamental truth of an issue or event.
The word “bottom” has been used in this way (to mean ultimate cause) since the sixteenth century.
Shakespeare used it numerous times, as in “Is there no pity . . . that sees into the bottom of my grief?” (Romeo and Juliet, 3.5). Several early proverbs also refer to “bottom” in this way: “If thou canst not see the bottom, wade not”;

 

[Peterlag]

Never accuse without first getting to the TRUTH


'to get to the bottom'
To determine the cause or source of something or solve the mystery of something.

To discover the origin or the fundamental truth of an issue or event.
The word “bottom” has been used in this way (to mean ultimate cause) since the sixteenth century.
Shakespeare used it numerous times, as in “Is there no pity . . . that sees into the bottom of my grief?” (Romeo and Juliet, 3.5). Several early proverbs also refer to “bottom” in this way: “If thou canst not see the bottom, wade not”;

There's no mystery. God does not do things in secret or to make it difficult. He explains lengthy and in great detail. For Him coming to the Earth as a man would have been a huge big deal and He would have explained it as to why He was coming and what He was going to accomplish by coming. And yet there's not an inkling of why God would come or what He would accomplish by coming.

The best you guys could come up with when I asked this question was "nothing" and then you said we already answered you.

 

[Runningman]

Philippians 2:6​

“Who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,”

This is conspiculously missing from the Philippians 2:5-8 narrative: "God humbled Himself as a man." What is revealed by the passage is that Jesus is a man. Full stop. Jesus isn't even described as the one getting any of the glory later on in the chapter.

Wow. The Father is explcitly called God and Jesus isn't. The Father is getting all of the glory and Jesus isn't. You will forgive your audience if your argument for the deity of Jesus or the incaration of God is not convincing. @DavidTree @Red Baker

Philippians 2
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Runningman]

All that i posted is EXACT to scripture

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.

This is about the Logos and God.

All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

This is about the Father being the Creator.

In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

The Father again. See John 1:9 where the true Light isn't the Word or Jesus.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

This is about the God creating Jesus using His words.

 

[Runningman]

Never accuse without first getting to the TRUTH


'to get to the bottom'
To determine the cause or source of something or solve the mystery of something.

To discover the origin or the fundamental truth of an issue or event.
The word “bottom” has been used in this way (to mean ultimate cause) since the sixteenth century.
Shakespeare used it numerous times, as in “Is there no pity . . . that sees into the bottom of my grief?” (Romeo and Juliet, 3.5). Several early proverbs also refer to “bottom” in this way: “If thou canst not see the bottom, wade not”;

Scripture teaches that God isn't a mystery. Jesus already explained or revealed who God is according to John 1:18, John 14:6-9, Matthew 11:27, John 17:6,26, etc. The only God Jesus revealed is the Father (John 5:17,18, Matthew 6:9, John 20:17, John 8:54, John 10:30,36, Matthew 11:25-27, John 14:6,7, Luke 2:49, John 17:3, and the list goes on.)

Why do you suppose Jesus always said God is the Father while making no mention of anyone else? Since Jesus consistently defined God as the Father and didn't reveal any other person as being God, do you agree that Jesus fulfilled his mission to reveal who God is? That would mean God is Unitarian and didn't incarnate as a man.

 

[DavidTree]

Scripture teaches that God isn't a mystery. Jesus already explained or revealed who God is according to John 1:18, John 14:6-9, Matthew 11:27, John 17:6,26, etc. The only God Jesus revealed is the Father (John 5:17,18, Matthew 6:9, John 20:17, John 8:54, John 10:30,36, Matthew 11:25-27, John 14:6,7, Luke 2:49, John 17:3, and the list goes on.)

Why do you suppose Jesus always said God is the Father while making no mention of anyone else? Since Jesus consistently defined God as the Father and didn't reveal any other person as being God, do you agree that Jesus fulfilled his mission to reveal who God is? That would mean God is Unitarian and didn't incarnate as a man.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory. - 1 Timothy 3:16

 

[Keiw1]

Because HE became flesh and blood.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

There is no capitol G God to the Word at John 1:1 in Koine Greek.

 

[Runningman]

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory. - 1 Timothy 3:16

Not even trinitarians agree with that.

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
God was manifest in the flesh.—Here, in the most ancient authorities, the word “God” does not occur. We must, then, literally translate the Greek of the most famous and trustworthy MSS. as follows: He who was manifested in the flesh. In the later MSS., and in the great majority of the fathers who cite the passage, we certainly find Theos (“God”), as in the Received text. The substitution can be traced to no special doctrinal prejudice, but is owing, probably, to a well-meant correction of early scribes.

Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
“There is no doubt that the reading ‘who’ … has the support of the ancient Greek MSS … some of which were altered to read ‘God’; the support for ‘God’ is weak … We take the reading ‘who’ unhesitatingly.”

Vincent's Word Studies
“God (Θεός) — But the correct reading is ὃς who.”

ICC (International Critical Commentary)
ὅς.] What is the antecedent? … It can scarcely be θεός, to which ἐδικαίωθη would not be suitable…”

Expositor’s Greek Testament
“If we assume that ὅς is the right reading, it is difficult to avoid the conclusion that what follows is a quotation …”

source: https://biblehub.com/commentaries/1_timothy/3-16.htm

 

[360watt]

Not even trinitarians agree with that.

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
God was manifest in the flesh.—Here, in the most ancient authorities, the word “God” does not occur. We must, then, literally translate the Greek of the most famous and trustworthy MSS. as follows: He who was manifested in the flesh. In the later MSS., and in the great majority of the fathers who cite the passage, we certainly find Theos (“God”), as in the Received text. The substitution can be traced to no special doctrinal prejudice, but is owing, probably, to a well-meant correction of early scribes.

Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
“There is no doubt that the reading ‘who’ … has the support of the ancient Greek MSS … some of which were altered to read ‘God’; the support for ‘God’ is weak … We take the reading ‘who’ unhesitatingly.”

Vincent's Word Studies
“God (Θεός) — But the correct reading is ὃς who.”

ICC (International Critical Commentary)
ὅς.] What is the antecedent? … It can scarcely be θεός, to which ἐδικαίωθη would not be suitable…”

Expositor’s Greek Testament
“If we assume that ὅς is the right reading, it is difficult to avoid the conclusion that what follows is a quotation …”

source: https://biblehub.com/commentaries/1_timothy/3-16.htm

HE by context... is God! That is the way it reads.

 

[Runningman]

HE by context... is God! That is the way it reads.

Contextually, only humans like Jesus are "Justified in the Spirit." I hope you don't believe God needs to be justified.

 

[Red Baker]

I have some catching up to do, I'm been posting on the wrong thread. I'll get caught up, the Lord willing.

@FreeInChrist thank you for guiding me back to the right thread, Old folks need all the help they can get.