Semi-Pelagianism

[The Rogue Tomato]

I notice there are a LOT of semi-Pelagians in this forum. Sem-Pelagians believe there is enough good left in us that we have the power of will to respond to the Gospel by our own free will. This is in direct contradiction to Scripture.

“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind

And many more prooftexts.

 

[civic]

That’s the usual fallacious argument by Calvinists who label anyone who rejects tulip and divine meticulous determinism as semi pelagians. The fact is prior to augustine free will was the churches default position.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

That’s the usual fallacious argument by Calvinists who label anyone who rejects tulip and divine meticulous determinism as semi pelagians. The fact is prior to augustine free will was the churches default position.

Did I not quote scripture? Are you calling scripture a fallacious argument?

 

[civic]

Did I not quote scripture? Are you calling scripture a fallacious argument?

No one I know of here will deny man is depraved which is not the same as total depravity.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him

I don't care what you call it. Rebirth (being born from above by the Holy Spirit) precedes faith. You are unable to "make a decision for Christ" until you have been regenerated. You are dead until you're made alive, after which you can truly hear the Gospel and respond.

 

[Dizerner]

Semi-Pelagian is as useless an appellation as Semi-Augustinian.

It is just a label to slap on people so the slappers can feel snooty about it.

 

[Dizerner]

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

No one I know of here will deny man is depraved which is not the same as total depravity.

If you believe man is not so depraved that he is spiritually alive enough to respond to the Gospel without first being reborn, you are semi-Pelagian. It's as simple as that, and violates the word of God.

 

[civic]

If you believe man is not so depraved that he is spiritually alive enough to respond to the Gospel without first being reborn, you are semi-Pelagian. It's as simple as that, and violates the word of God.

No I’m biblical and you would be an Augustinian , a Calvinist. The unbiblical teaching of regeneration preceding faith

 

[civic]

For the readers !

Notice what comes first in scripture - the order of how one becomes saved.

1- Repent , turn away from sin
2- the after you repent you get a new heart/spirit ,regeneration, new life, born again etc....
3- repent then you live, have life- ie new heart, spirit.

John below the same order in in his opening of the gospel and in his purpose statement for writing his gospel.

John 1:12-13
“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Same order as above receive, believe, call on Him then the new birth follows.

John 20:31
“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Once again the order is consistent with the OT- belief/repentance precedes life.


Romans 10:8-13
But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Again above we see its hearing the gospel, believing the message , confessing then calling upon the Lord results in salvation.

Acts tells us the same order in 11:18- "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.” Repent precedes life.

Paul confirms the order in Ephesians below as well. Hearing and believing precedes the Holy Spirit that we were sealed with not before belief.

Ephesians 1:13
“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit

conclusion: as we read in these SALVIFIC passages there is a consistent order.

1- hearing the word, the gospel
2- believing the gospel
3- receiving the gospel
4- calling upon the Lord
5- confessing Jesus is Lord
6- resulting in the new birth, born of God, salvation, eternal life, regeneration, born again

hope this helps !!!

 

[Dizerner]

Grace always comes first, we call it God's preceding grace.

For the record I disagree with Provisionism on this point:

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/my-criticism-of-dr-flowers-inability-and-the-sin-nature.110/

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God (or Christ).

Some people think that verse says, "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

No, it's not hearing the word of God. It's hearing comes by or through the word of God/Christ (depending on your translation). In other words, you don't have ears to hear until God opens them. Regeneration precedes faith.

 

[civic]

If you believe man is not so depraved that he is spiritually alive enough to respond to the Gospel without first being reborn, you are semi-Pelagian. It's as simple as that, and violates the word of God.

Jesus never once taught that faith was given , granted or a gift .He said " YOUR FAITH " has saved and healed you. Not the faith I gave you healed you.

Calvinism in parenthesis below and how they add their doctrine to scripture.

Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith ( not the faith I have given you )hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 8:48
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith (not the faith I have given you )has healed you. Go in peace."

Luke 17:19
Then Jesus said to him, "Rise and go; your faith( not the faith I have given you ) has made you well!"

Luke 18:42
"Receive your sight!" Jesus replied. "Your faith(not the faith I have give you ) has healed you."

Matthew 8:10
When Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those following Him, "Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.

Matthew 8:13
Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! As you have believed, so will it be done for you." And his servant was healed at that very hour.

Matthew 9:2
Just then some men brought to Him a paralytic lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.

Matthew 9:22
Jesus turned and saw her. "Take courage, daughter," He said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was cured from that very hour.

Matthew 9:29
Then He touched their eyes and said, "According to your faith will it be done to you."

Matthew 15:28
"O woman," Jesus answered, "your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Mark 5:34
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be free of your affliction."

Mark 10:52
"Go," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." And immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.

John 4:53
So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.

and all were dead in their sins, unregenerate.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I notice there are a LOT of semi-Pelagians in this forum. Sem-Pelagians believe there is enough good left in us that we have the power of will to respond to the Gospel by our own free will. This is in direct contradiction to Scripture.

“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind

And many more prooftexts.

How is righteousness a requirement to accept the Gospel?

The Gospel is about the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I notice there are a LOT of semi-Pelagians in this forum. Sem-Pelagians believe there is enough good left in us that we have the power of will to respond to the Gospel by our own free will. This is in direct contradiction to Scripture.

“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind

And many more prooftexts.

Also, as I've referenced before. Verse 12 is clear. "they have turned aside". Notice the plural "they". Notice the "turned".

Which means there are more than one and they were righteous.