Sealed by the baptism en the Holy Ghost

[Doug Brents]

The text

1 Corinthians 12:27–31 (LEB) — 27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members of it individually, 28 and whom God has appointed in the church: first, apostles, second, prophets, third, teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helps, administrations, kinds of tongues. 29 Not all are apostles, are they? Not all are prophets, are they? Not all are teachers, are they? Not all are workers of miracles, are they? 30 Not all have gifts of healing, do they? Not all speak with tongues, do they? Not all interpret, do they? 31 But strive for the greater gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.

As I said, this does indeed talk about the gifts that are given within the Church. But it does not say that those gifts are given exclusively to those in the Church, nor does it say that these gifts cannot be given elsewhere. It simply says that within the Church the highest gift is to the Apostles, and secondly to prophets, and thirdly to teachers, and then miraculous gifts, then healing gifts, etc.

 

[Fred]

Cornelius was a believer in God. He was not a believer in Jesus Christ as the Son of God until Peter spoke to him. And he was not saved until he was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of his sins and to receive the gift, the INDWELLING, of the Holy Spirit.

The gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:45) was received before water baptism (Acts 10:48).

 

[Doug Brents]

The evidence I supplied concerning Galatians 3:27 has still not been refuted.

By that one line of my response, no it has not. But the fullness of my post does refute your perversion of the Scripture.

 

[Fred]

The account of Philip in Samaria (Acts 8) describes that very distinction. If you do not understand that distinction then you do not understand that account.

Cite the passages.

I know you it may be difficult for you to deal with specifics.

 

[Fred]

By that one line of my response, no it has not. But the fullness of my post does refute your perversion of the Scripture.

The above still does not refute anything I had written.

Try again.

 

[Doug Brents]

There is only one baptism that places us into the body of Christ and that is SPIRIT baptism, not water baptism.

Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

That statement makes a lie of 1 Pet 3:21, Acts 8:36, Matt 28:19, and other passages. Your doctrine must be true to ALL Scripture.

 

[Doug Brents]

The above still does not refute anything I had written.

Try again.

There is ONLY ONE BAPTISM in the NT Church.
In the absence of any modifier ("baptism in cloud and fire", etc.) that one baptism must be the one that is described and defined by the actions and words of other Scriptures.
1 Pet 3:21 - the baptism that saves requires water.
Acts 8:36 - the baptism taught by the teachers of the Gospel in the first years of the Church required water.
Mark 16:16, Matt 28:19 - the baptism in which we are saved requires the action of the teacher to perform.
Acts 2:38 - the baptism in which our sins are forgiven requires the action of the penitent person to receive.

The fact that the first part of Gal 3 references the Spirit frequently has nothing to do with the necessity, or not, of water baptism. The Holy Spirit is also completely necessary in salvation: John 3:5 says BOTH water AND the Spirit are essential.

Because the baptism in which we are saved requires both the Spirit AND water, Cornelius could not have been saved before he was baptized in water, and demonstrates that what he received of the Spirit was not indwelling (which is received upon salvation, and is the assurance of salvation), but as the Scripture says was only the empowerment of tongues and praise.

 

[Fred]

The fact that the first part of Gal 3 references the Spirit frequently has nothing to do with the necessity, or not, of water baptism.

Not only is this very brief and lacking any serious depth, it also ignores all the other evidence I supplied.

You can stop hiding now.

 

[Doug Brents]

@mailmandan, @Fred,

In what way is it sad that I insist that your statements must agree with ALL Scripture? The only way I can think of is that you KNOW that your doctrine is contrary to Scripture, but you are too invested in it to humble yourself to change your thinking to agree with Scripture. That is very sad to me. I pray that you will humble yourself to God and submit to His truth.

 

[Fred]

@mailmandan, @Fred,

In what way is it sad that I insist that your statements must agree with ALL Scripture? The only way I can think of is that you KNOW that your doctrine is contrary to Scripture, but you are too invested in it to humble yourself to change your thinking to agree with Scripture. That is very sad to me. I pray that you will humble yourself to God and submit to His truth.

See post 108.

 

[Doug Brents]

Not only is this very brief and lacking any serious depth, it also ignores all the other evidence I supplied.

You can stop hiding now.

And that is not the only line in my refutation of your argument.

 

[Fred]

And that is not the only line in my refutation of your argument.

Never said it was.

It's still severely lacking.

You can stop hiding again.

 

[mailmandan]

There is one baptism, two results, namely forgiveness of sins and the giving of the gift of the Holy Spirit. The baptism in/with/by the Holy Spirit occurs in water baptism and is the giving of the gift of the Holy Spirit.

False. Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?”

Faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

 

[Doug Brents]

You can stop hiding again.

I never have been hiding.

 

[Fred]

I never have been hiding.

Now you are confused.

 

[mailmandan]

That statement makes a lie of 1 Pet 3:21, Acts 8:36, Matt 28:19, and other passages. Your doctrine must be true to ALL Scripture.

No, you simply misinterpreted those verses.

In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). *The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, only the wicked in Noah's day came in contact with the water and they all perished.

*So, by Peter saying, "not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," Peter guards against saving power to the physical ceremony in H20.

In regard to Acts 8:36, the eunuch was saved when he believed in Jesus Christ (compare with John 20:31) before he was water baptized.

In regard to Matthew 28:19, we have here a command from Jesus here to go and make disciples of all nations and baptize them. However, it does not say here that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation.

Also, see post #113.

 

[Jim]

The gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:45) was received before water baptism (Acts 10:48).

Holy Spirit "poured out" on the Gentiles is the empowering Holy Spirit, not the indwelling Holy Spirit.

 

[Fred]

Holy Spirit "poured out" on the Gentiles is the empowering Holy Spirit, not the indwelling Holy Spirit.

F

Post in thread 'ELI insurance policy'

Oct 6, 2023

the indwelling of the Holy Spirit

By having "the gift of the Holy Spirit" shows they had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

The same is true with Cornelius and the other Gentiles with him. They received "the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 10:45) before their water baptism (Acts 10:48).

"The gift of the Holy Spirit" in Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:45 is the Holy Spirit
1. The same phrase
2. By the same author
3. In the same book
4. In the same context (the preaching of the Lordship and resurrection of...

• Fred

• 

 

[Jim]

F

Post in thread 'ELI insurance policy'

Oct 6, 2023

the indwelling of the Holy Spirit

By having "the gift of the Holy Spirit" shows they had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

The same is true with Cornelius and the other Gentiles with him. They received "the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 10:45) before their water baptism (Acts 10:48).

"The gift of the Holy Spirit" in Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:45 is the Holy Spirit
1. The same phrase
2. By the same author
3. In the same book
4. In the same context (the preaching of the Lordship and resurrection of...

• Fred

• 

Believe as you like. I do not think that failing to acknowledge the distinction between the works of the Holy Spirit is a wise thing to do. But you go ahead with that.

 

[Fred]

Believe as you like.

I believe what the Bible teaches.

I do not think that failing to acknowledge the distinction between the works of the Holy Spirit is a wise thing to do. But you go ahead with that.

You have nothing against the evidence I supplied.
Run along...