Salvation without believing PSA

[praise_yeshua]

T. D. does not teach "no communication with God."

Whoever taught you that was wrong.

When was "preceding grace" given? I don't believe you've thought this through completely...

Also—they did not experience his glory, that is why they were ashamed.

They were ashamed because they disobeyed God. In His presence, we all are.

Conviction instead.

"So much" for Pelagianism.

"Ashamed and Conviction" the same?

 

[praise_yeshua]

a grace that enables , infuses God into them- not much different than the calvies IR. both are wrong PG and IR. Two sides of the same coin built upon a false premise of original sin and T.D.

hope this helps !!!

So much for a "perfect" Eden where God came around in the "cool of the day".....

 

[Diserner]

So much for a "perfect" Eden where God came around in the "cool of the day".....

After they sinned, no more Eden.

That's the whole point of the story...

When was "preceding grace" given? I don't believe you've thought this through completely...

Well, I don't mean to brag.

But yeah, I've given it more thought than most.

Grace is given before time began in Christ.

That doesn't equate to Calvinism, though.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Salvation without believing PSA​

Absolutely!!! Which "theory of the atonement" you happen to hang your hat on doesn't really mean SPIT (they're all nothing but "Theology" after all).

When I was Born Again, there wasn't any "Theology" involved. The Conviction of SIN by the Holy Spirit to me personally establish ed several things: I was a sinner, I was NOT going to "Make the cut" when Judgement (or death) came, and God's WORD (conviction) was my source of FAITH, that I'd be O.K. if I surrendered to HIM, repented, and cried out to HIM for salvation. NO "theology" needed.

There's plenty of time AFTER you're Born Again to confuse yourself with "Denominational theology". The Southern Baptists got to me first, and SOME of what they taught me has stood the test of time and experience, and some didn't. SO 60 years later, I'm a member in good standing of the Assemblies of God Denomination, who's theology I find acceptable for the most part, but which doesn't define me. The AG tends toward the PSA, but isn't comfortable with all its details

 

[Diserner]

Absolutely!!! Which "theory of the atonement" you happen to hang your hat on doesn't really mean SPIT (they're all nothing but "Theology" after all).

I believe I was saved by Jesus eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

That was his atonement for me.

Still "doesn't matter"?

When I was Born Again, there wasn't any "Theology" involved. The Conviction of SIN by the Holy Spirit to me personally establish ed several things: I was a sinner, I was NOT going to "Make the cut" when Judgement (or death) came, and God's WORD (conviction) was my source of FAITH, that I'd be O.K. if I surrendered to HIM, repented, and cried out to HIM for salvation. NO "theology" needed.

There's a whole ton of theology in what you just said.

Apparently you don't seem to realize that...

There's plenty of time AFTER you're Born Again to confuse yourself with "Denominational theology". The Southern Baptists got to me first, and SOME of what they taught me has stood the test of time and experience, and some didn't. SO 60 years later, I'm a member in good standing of the Assemblies of God Denomination, who's theology I find acceptable for the most part, but which doesn't define me. The AG tends toward the PSA, but isn't comfortable with all its details

Nobody is "comfortable with all its details," because God is holy and fearsome.

But there can't be "wrong" doctrine unless their is "right" doctrine.

Scripture tells us of "false" doctrine, so it matters.

Just a lot of it is an area of spiritual warfare and intellectual pride...

 

[civic]

After they sinned, no more Eden.

That's the whole point of the story...



Well, I don't mean to brag.

But yeah, I've given it more thought than most.

Grace is given before time began in Christ.

That doesn't equate to Calvinism, though.

How can grace be given when there was no one to receive grace ?

Things that make you go hmmmm

 

[civic]

Absolutely!!! Which "theory of the atonement" you happen to hang your hat on doesn't really mean SPIT (they're all nothing but "Theology" after all).

When I was Born Again, there wasn't any "Theology" involved. The Conviction of SIN by the Holy Spirit to me personally establish ed several things: I was a sinner, I was NOT going to "Make the cut" when Judgement (or death) came, and God's WORD (conviction) was my source of FAITH, that I'd be O.K. if I surrendered to HIM, repented, and cried out to HIM for salvation. NO "theology" needed.

There's plenty of time AFTER you're Born Again to confuse yourself with "Denominational theology". The Southern Baptists got to me first, and SOME of what they taught me has stood the test of time and experience, and some didn't. SO 60 years later, I'm a member in good standing of the Assemblies of God Denomination, whose theology I find acceptable for the most part, but which doesn't define me. The AG tends toward the PSA, but isn't comfortable with all its details

Amen preach it brother

 

[civic]

I believe I was saved by Jesus eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

That was his atonement for me.

Still "doesn't matter"?



There's a whole ton of theology in what you just said.

Apparently you don't seem to realize that...



Nobody is "comfortable with all its details," because God is holy and fearsome.

But there can't be "wrong" doctrine unless their is "right" doctrine.

Scripture tells us of "false" doctrine, so it matters.

Just a lot of it is an area of spiritual warfare and intellectual pride...

And PSA is filled with intellectual pride .

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I believe I was saved by Jesus eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

That was his atonement for me.

Still "doesn't matter"?

Not a bit!!! There's any number of folks that THINK they're "Saved" by their "intellectual assent" to this or that set of "theological beliefs", and really aren't. The Bible calls 'em "TARES".

When the Holy Spirit CONVICTS YOU OF YOUR SIN, you can have FAITH in Jesus SIN OFFERING, and become Born Again.

There's a whole ton of theology in what you just said.

ABSOLUTELY NONE OF WHICH I was even aware of, so totally unimportant. Being Born again requires NO "theology", it's a transaction between YOU, and God by the Holy Spirit. There's time later AFTER you're saved to mess with "Man's Theology".

Scripture tells us of "false" doctrine, so it matters.

SO knock yourself out if that's what lights your fire.

 

[praise_yeshua]

After they sinned, no more Eden.

That's the whole point of the story...

Eden wasn't "perfect" to begin with. Satan entered Eden. Do you expect Satan in your "Paradise"?

Well, I don't mean to brag.

But yeah, I've given it more thought than most.

Grace is given before time began in Christ.

That doesn't equate to Calvinism, though.

Why was Grace needed before "time began" if everything was perfect until Adam sinned?

 

[praise_yeshua]

How can grace be given when there was no one to receive grace ?

Things that make you go hmmmm

Yep....

I responded before I read your comments.....

 

[Diserner]

And PSA is filled with intellectual pride .

It's not what I "wanted" to believe.

Every doctrine—especially right ones—can have pride.

 

[Diserner]

How can grace be given when there was no one to receive grace ?

Things that make you go hmmmm

How can sins be atoned for before you even commit them?

But somehow that doesn't make you go hmmmm.

Very selective hmmmms that only favor you, lol.

 

[Diserner]

Why was Grace needed before "time began" if everything was perfect until Adam sinned?

who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, (2 Tim. 1:9 NKJ)

Things that make you go "hmmmm."

 

[Diserner]

Why was Grace needed before "time began" if everything was perfect until Adam sinned?

There's a really handy point that the Capturing Christianity apologist came up with.

It's that asking "why" is not an actual argument.

It's just an attempt to throw some kind of ambiguous doubt on something, like throwing spaghetti to the wall and hoping it sticks.


Grace was needed, because God foreknew we would sin.

And to deal with sinners, without immediately chucking them into hell, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars, God needs some grace in place.

That's why Jesus was given for when we eventually sinned.

 

[praise_yeshua]

who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, (2 Tim. 1:9 NKJ)

Things that make you go "hmmmm."

I didn't question 2 Tim 1:9. I questioned your theology concerning it. You're the one claiming perfection in Eden. Not me.

 

[Diserner]

I didn't question 2 Tim 1:9. I questioned your theology concerning it. You're the one claiming perfection in Eden. Not me.

Was for civic, not you.

 

[praise_yeshua]

There's a really handy point that the Capturing Christianity apologist came up with.

It's that asking "why" is not an actual argument.

It's just an attempt to throw some kind of ambiguous doubt on something, like throwing spaghetti to the wall and hoping it sticks.

Brother you just made an argument for the importance of theology. Theology is the "WHY....."

Now you're denying why. I'm just asking for consistency here.

Grace was needed, because God foreknew we would sin.

And to deal with sinners, without immediately chucking them into hell, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars, God needs some grace in place.

That's why Jesus was given for when we eventually sinned.

So you deny "Why" and the address "Why".......

You're making temporal arguments not supported by Scripture. However, you're establishing what I believe and don't realize it.

God's intent in creation was not Adam. There is a progressive order to creation. Day 1, Day 2, Day 3 and so forth into the "Day THOUSANDS".......

God's work in humanity started with Adam. It was not Adam from the beginning.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Was for civic, not you.

Sorry. You quoted me...

 

[Diserner]

SO knock yourself out if that's what lights your fire.

Thanks.

Scripture does light my fire.

And what the atonement actually is, really does matter.

Perhaps truth is not conveyed to us through intellect—indeed I don't think it is—but it still matters.