Diserner
Well-known member
It doesn't say just one time.
They had to keep eating.
That's why they got banned, I mean Adam could have grabbed a fruit after he sinned, no cherub was there to stop him.
Salvation without believing PSA
- Thread starter Diserner
- Start date
It doesn't say just one time.
They had to keep eating.
That's why they got banned, I mean Adam could have grabbed a fruit after he sinned, no cherub was there to stop him.
civic
Well-known member
God knows everything (1 John 3:20). He knows not only the minutest details of our lives but those of everything around us, for He mentions even knowing when a sparrow falls or when we lose a single hair (Matthew 10:29-30). Not only does God know everything that will occur until the end of history itself (Isaiah 46:9-10), but He also knows our very thoughts, even before we speak forth (Psalm 139:4). He knows our hearts from afar; He even saw us in the womb (Psalm 139:1-3, 15-16). Solomon expresses this truth perfectly when he says, “For you, you only, know the hearts of all the children of mankind” (1 Kings 8:39).I'm saying what the text says.
I submit to the text, not your philosophy.
Diserner
Well-known member
Well, to harmonize the two texts, I posit God has the ability to withhold knowledge from himself.
There are many abilities God has that are beyond our understanding.
civic
Well-known member
The All knowing, omnipotent and omnipresent God Psalm 139- Bible Truth 101- the All Omni God of the Scripture. Who never changes- Is Immutable.
1 You have searched me, Lord,
and you know me.
2 You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.
3 You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways.
4 Before a word is on my tongue
you, Lord, know it completely.
5 You hem me in behind and before,
and you lay your hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
too lofty for me to attain.
7 Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?
8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.
9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,
10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me
and the light become night around me,”
12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;
the night will shine like the day,
for darkness is as light to you.
13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place,
when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.
17 How precious to me are your thoughts,[a] God!
How vast is the sum of them!
18 Were I to count them,
they would outnumber the grains of sand—
when I awake, I am still with you.
19 If only you, God, would slay the wicked!
Away from me, you who are bloodthirsty!
20 They speak of you with evil intent;
your adversaries misuse your name.
21 Do I not hate those who hate you, Lord,
and abhor those who are in rebellion against you?
22 I have nothing but hatred for them;
I count them my enemies.
23 Search me, God, and know my heart;
test me and know my anxious thoughts.
24 See if there is any offensive way in me,
and lead me in the way everlasting.
1 You have searched me, Lord,
and you know me.
2 You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.
3 You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways.
4 Before a word is on my tongue
you, Lord, know it completely.
5 You hem me in behind and before,
and you lay your hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
too lofty for me to attain.
7 Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?
8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.
9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,
10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me
and the light become night around me,”
12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;
the night will shine like the day,
for darkness is as light to you.
13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place,
when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.
17 How precious to me are your thoughts,[a] God!
How vast is the sum of them!
18 Were I to count them,
they would outnumber the grains of sand—
when I awake, I am still with you.
19 If only you, God, would slay the wicked!
Away from me, you who are bloodthirsty!
20 They speak of you with evil intent;
your adversaries misuse your name.
21 Do I not hate those who hate you, Lord,
and abhor those who are in rebellion against you?
22 I have nothing but hatred for them;
I count them my enemies.
23 Search me, God, and know my heart;
test me and know my anxious thoughts.
24 See if there is any offensive way in me,
and lead me in the way everlasting.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I'm sure they were afraid..... do you see faith coming here?
The fearful are what?
I see this more and more as I age. I wish I wouldn't have been so fearful of what God has promised.... in my own life.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
What about man died in the "fall"?
I'll start.....
Their innocence died.
I'll start.....
Their innocence died.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Innocence in unbelief. Innocence in lack of knowledge.
1Ti 1:13 though formerly I was a blasphemer, persecutor, and insolent opponent. But I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief.
1Ti 1:13 though formerly I was a blasphemer, persecutor, and insolent opponent. But I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief.
Diserner
Well-known member
The spirit died.
People get all materialistic in their understanding sometimes due to unbelief, and it's just a secular view of physicalism.
Physical death never was the full punishment of sin.
It's just a receipt.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
We can know what died from the narrative.
God clear said that "in the day"....
Gen 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
Gen 3:7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.
Where did the spirit die in the narrative? Can you provide reference?
civic
Well-known member
The wages of sin is death.
for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
opsónion: provisions, wages
Original Word: ὀψώνιον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: opsónion
Phonetic Spelling: (op-so'-nee-on)
Definition: provisions, wages
Usage: pay, wages, salary, reward.
HELPS Word-studies
3800 opsṓnion (from opson, "meat" and onemoai, "purchase") – properly, the purchase of meat (food); later, "ration-money paid to soldiers" (BAGD); hence, wages ("fitting compensation").
3800 (opsōnion) is used figuratively for the eternal compensation (divine recompense) of the unrighteous, in keeping with their earthly deeds (Ro 6:23).
Thayers
1. universally, a soldier's pay, allowance (Polybius 6, 39, 12; Dionysius Halicarnassus, Antiquities 9, 36), more commonly in the plural (Winers Grammar, 176 (166); Buttmann, 24 (21)) ὀψώνια, properly, that part of a soldier's support given in place of pay (i. e. rations) and the money in which he is paid (Polybius 1, 67, 1; 6, 39, 15; 1 Macc. 3:28 1 Macc. 14:32; 1 Esdr. 4:56; Josephus, Antiquities 12, 2, 3): Luke 3:14; 1 Corinthians 9:7 (cf. Winer's Grammar, § 31, 7 d.).
2. metaphorically, wages: singular 2 Corinthians 11:8; τῆς ἁμαρτίας, the hire that sin pays, Romans 6:23.
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praise_yeshua
Well-known member
BTW, if they had the spirit of God.......
Then would that not mean they had the "mind of God"?
If they had the "mind of God", then how could they have been innocent from the perspective of knowing Good and Evil?
Diserner
Well-known member
My understanding of the word "knowledge" there is experiential.
Many languages today still have this experiential use, but it has died away in English.
You get it still once in while with things like, "You don't know what it's like to go through depression."
When you say that, you don't mean that if you read enough books you would then be informed and know—you have to experience it.
Similarly, we see this use in "Adam knew Eve."
Do you think Adam read a fact sheet on Eve?
So what we see is, this is not intellectual or factual knowledge at all.
It's saying they "knew" evil in the way of actually experiencing, or becoming, evil itself.
Diserner
Well-known member
For Christians physical death is finally finding life.
Death is so much more then physically dying.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
My understanding of the word "knowledge" there is experiential.
Many languages today still have this experiential use, but it has died away in English.
You get it still once in while with things like, "You don't know what it's like to go through depression."
When you say that, you don't mean that if you read enough books you would then be informed and know—you have to experience it.
Similarly, we see this use in "Adam knew Eve."
Do you think Adam read a fact sheet on Eve?
So what we see is, this is not intellectual or factual knowledge at all.
It's saying they "knew" evil in the way of actually experiencing, or becoming, evil itself.
God knows evil without committing evil Himself. You're basically stating that committing evil is the only way to truly know evil. Which is the way many approach the Priestly work of Christ. Which is where it begins with PSA.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Adam never had such life before He fell. Eden was never "heaven". Never. Was God's Throne in Eden?
There are varying aspects to death. Death of innocence is what happen in Eden. Death slowly came upon men as they were subjected to an environment that would bring about their physical death.
Diserner
Well-known member
You are looking at life like some object you give someone, like a package you pick up at the post office.
Life was unhindered fellowship with God, experiencing his glory.
They walked with him.
In the cool of the day.
civic
Well-known member
and that didn't stop after the fall they were still in communication with God. In fact He sought them out when they were trying to hide from God. So much for T.D. and original sin and no communication with God because one is dead in their sins.
hope this helps !!!
Diserner
Well-known member
T. D. does not teach "no communication with God."
Whoever taught you that was wrong.
We believe in preceding grace.
Also—they did not experience his glory, that is why they were ashamed.
Conviction instead.
"So much" for Pelagianism.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I disagree. However, Eternal Life is often referenced as a "gift".
Walking with God in a garden in a "hot" uncomfortable environment......isn't the same as being joint heirs and having direct access to the very Throne Room of God.
civic
Well-known member
a grace that enables , infuses God into them- not much different than the calvies IR. both are wrong PG and IR. Two sides of the same coin built upon a false premise of original sin and T.D.
hope this helps !!!
