Refuting effectually caused faith

Okay, then, using your own choice of scripture, 'splain to me how someone who is walking by the flesh can, of his own power and will, have faith in the Gospel?

This is the core problem with free-willism. "Who then, can be saved?" “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”

So, you (free-willers) are claiming credit for something God does. You are claiming credit for something impossible for man to do. I can't imagine how God could possibly be pleased by that. How does one make his calling and election sure if he doesn't give credit where credit is due? "For it is God who works in you both to WILL and to DO according to His good pleasure."
How about because scripture shows man is capable of believing

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?

Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief

Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Jesus clearly states he hides truth for some as otherwise they would repent and be forgiven

Mark 4:10–12 (ESV) — 10 And when he was alone, those around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. 11 And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, 12 so that “ ‘they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven.’ ”

unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.


PS God does not believe for you so your statement

So, you (free-willers) are claiming credit for something God does. You are claiming credit for something impossible for man to do
is quite defective

maybe you should stop quoting mantras and believe the scripture

John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief

2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:4–11 (NIV) — 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.

As is the preaching of it.

Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
 
Okay, then, using your own choice of scripture, 'splain to me how someone who is walking by the flesh can, of his own power and will, have faith in the Gospel?

This is the core problem with free-willism. "Who then, can be saved?" “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”

So, you (free-willers) are claiming credit for something God does. You are claiming credit for something impossible for man to do. I can't imagine how God could possibly be pleased by that. How does one make his calling and election sure if he doesn't give credit where credit is due? "For it is God who works in you both to WILL and to DO according to His good pleasure."
How about because scripture shows man is capable of believing

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?

Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief

Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Jesus clearly states he hides truth for some as otherwise they would repent and be forgiven

Mark 4:10–12 (ESV) — 10 And when he was alone, those around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. 11 And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, 12 so that “ ‘they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven.’ ”

unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.


PS God does not believe for you so your statement

So, you (free-willers) are claiming credit for something God does. You are claiming credit for something impossible for man to do
is quite defective

maybe you should stop quoting mantras and believe the scripture

John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief

2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:4–11 (NIV) — 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.

As is the preaching of it.

Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
 
Elect unbelieving sinners who Christ redeemed are regenerated by the Spirit then believe. 1 Pet 1:2
You ignored the evidence

unbelievers do not have the fruit of the Spirit

and context shows it is believers who are in view, not unbelievers

Galatians 5:16–26 (NASB 2020) — 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the desire of the flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, in order to keep you from doing whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let’s follow the Spirit as well. 26 Let’s not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.

Unbelievers are not led by the Spirit, do not walk by the spirit, live by the spirit

Fruit of the Spirit
Fruit of the Spirit. The fruit of the Spirit is the result of the Holy Spirit’s presence and working in the lives of maturing believers and is itemized in Galatians 5:22–23. In the context of these…
Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology, pp 274–275

Fruit of the Spirit. Expression taken from Galatians 5:22, 23. As listed there, this fruit is the manifest evidence one may expect from a life in which the Spirit of God is living and reigning. Jesus also implied that the character of a life can be determined. In the context of Matthew 7, the test for false prophets is, among other things, the kind of life they live. Consequently, even though Jesus did prohibit censorious criticism of others by his followers (Mt 7:1), he encouraged fruit inspection. The secret to exhibiting spiritual fruit in abundance is described in John 12:24. Using as an illustration a grain of wheat sown in the ground, Jesus encourages death to self and to the desires of the old nature and resurrection to the new life of “much fruit.”

Wesley L. Gerig, “Fruit of the Spirit,” Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1988), 818.

The “fruit of the Spirit” (Gal. 5:22f) is the natural outcome of the Spirit’s presence within all believers, while the “gifts of the Spirit” reflect the divine penchant for variety. The healthiest Christian communities will value both the fruit and the gifts of the Spirit and will neglect neither.

R. P. Spittler, “Spiritual Gifts,” ed. Geoffrey W. Bromiley, The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Revised (Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1979–1988), 604.

further there is no life apart from Christ

John 6:53 (NASB 2020) — 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.

Your theology imparts life (regeneration) apart from Christ and is therefore unbiblical
 
You ignored the evidence

unbelievers do not have the fruit of the Spirit

and context shows it is believers who are in view, not unbelievers

Galatians 5:16–26 (NASB 2020) — 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the desire of the flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, in order to keep you from doing whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let’s follow the Spirit as well. 26 Let’s not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.

Unbelievers are not led by the Spirit, do not walk by the spirit, live by the spirit

Fruit of the Spirit
Fruit of the Spirit. The fruit of the Spirit is the result of the Holy Spirit’s presence and working in the lives of maturing believers and is itemized in Galatians 5:22–23. In the context of these…
Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology, pp 274–275

Fruit of the Spirit. Expression taken from Galatians 5:22, 23. As listed there, this fruit is the manifest evidence one may expect from a life in which the Spirit of God is living and reigning. Jesus also implied that the character of a life can be determined. In the context of Matthew 7, the test for false prophets is, among other things, the kind of life they live. Consequently, even though Jesus did prohibit censorious criticism of others by his followers (Mt 7:1), he encouraged fruit inspection. The secret to exhibiting spiritual fruit in abundance is described in John 12:24. Using as an illustration a grain of wheat sown in the ground, Jesus encourages death to self and to the desires of the old nature and resurrection to the new life of “much fruit.”

Wesley L. Gerig, “Fruit of the Spirit,” Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1988), 818.

The “fruit of the Spirit” (Gal. 5:22f) is the natural outcome of the Spirit’s presence within all believers, while the “gifts of the Spirit” reflect the divine penchant for variety. The healthiest Christian communities will value both the fruit and the gifts of the Spirit and will neglect neither.

R. P. Spittler, “Spiritual Gifts,” ed. Geoffrey W. Bromiley, The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Revised (Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1979–1988), 604.

further there is no life apart from Christ

John 6:53 (NASB 2020) — 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.

Your theology imparts life (regeneration) apart from Christ and is therefore unbiblical
Again Faith is the fruit of the Spirit of regeneration Gal 5:22 every unbelieving, dead in sin vessel of mercy, will be regenerated and given the Gift or Fruit of Faith in Christ.
 
Again Faith is the fruit of the Spirit of regeneration Gal 5:22 every unbelieving, dead in sin vessel of mercy, will be regenerated and given the Gift or Fruit of Faith in Christ.
no thats faithfulness, not salvific faith. nice try.

Gal 5:22 is what is available to believers after they are saved.

do you walk in the spirit 24/7 ?

do you sin ?

hope this helps !!!
 
no thats faithfulness, not salvific faith. nice try.

Gal 5:22 is what is available to believers after they are saved.

do you walk in the spirit 24/7 ?

do you sin ?

hope this helps !!!
Its faith and faithfulness the fruit of the Spirit, the Spirit keeps the believer faithful
 
Its faith and faithfulness the fruit of the Spirit, the Spirit keeps the believer faithful
No its faithfulness , see the HONEST calvinist Barnes below. You have once again read your doctrine ( eisegesis ) into scripture.

Below is exegesis. See the difference ?

Faith - On the meaning of the word faith, see the note at Mark 16:16. The word here may be used in the sense of fidelity, and may denote that the Christian will be a faithful man, a man faithful to his word and promises; a man who can be trusted or confided in. It is probable that the word is used in this sense because the object of the apostle is not to speak of the feelings which we have toward God so much as to illustrate the influences of the Spirit in directing and controlling our feelings toward people. True religion makes a man faithful. The Christian is faithful as a man; faithful as a neighbor, friend, father, husband, son. He is faithful to his contracts; faithful to his promises. No man can be a Christian who is not thus faithful, and all pretensions to being under the influences of the Spirit when such fidelity does not exist, are deceitful and vain.

conclusion: faith in this context is for the christian who is already saved to walk faithfully before the Lord by yielding to the Holy Spirit who produced the fruit in their lives. Galatians 5:19-22 is written to those who are already saved explaining the difference between living in the flesh and living in the Spirit.

hope this helps !!!
 
No its faithfulness , see the HONEST calvinist Barnes below. You have once again read your doctrine ( eisegesis ) into scripture.

Below is exegesis. See the difference ?

Faith - On the meaning of the word faith, see the note at Mark 16:16. The word here may be used in the sense of fidelity, and may denote that the Christian will be a faithful man, a man faithful to his word and promises; a man who can be trusted or confided in. It is probable that the word is used in this sense because the object of the apostle is not to speak of the feelings which we have toward God so much as to illustrate the influences of the Spirit in directing and controlling our feelings toward people. True religion makes a man faithful. The Christian is faithful as a man; faithful as a neighbor, friend, father, husband, son. He is faithful to his contracts; faithful to his promises. No man can be a Christian who is not thus faithful, and all pretensions to being under the influences of the Spirit when such fidelity does not exist, are deceitful and vain.

conclusion: faith in this context is for the christian who is already saved to walk faithfully before the Lord by yielding to the Holy Spirit who produced the fruit in their lives. Galatians 5:19-22 is written to those who are already saved explaining the difference between living in the flesh and living in the Spirit.

hope this helps !!!
Its the same greek word Faith/Faithfulness
 
Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22; 1 Pet 1:22 no one believes in Jesus apart from The Spirit
still ignoring the fact unbelievers do not have the Spirit or the fruit of the Spirit

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/refuting-effectually-caused-faith.1295/post-55960

obviously your view are not consistent with scripture or even your own words

 
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