Refuting effectually caused faith

[Bob Carabbio]

Conviction does not ensure ones conversion at that time, and it is not irresistible, as you know.

Calvin got it wrong.

Questionable - is "I" sort term, or LONG term. By my experience it's NOT "Short term" since it required about 15 years to work in my case, and - If I had been convinced that He'd come again in conviction, I probably wouldn't have done in in '63 either, - BUT the verse (Gen 6:3) stuck in my mind syating that HE doesn't ALWAYS STRIVE with man. SO I made the FREE WILL DECISION to surrender at that point. But the hard and fast RULE is:

NO CONVICTION = NO CONVERSION.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

??????????

Romans 10:17 (NASB95) — 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

simply shows the need to hear

Not the "NEED", but the absolute REQUIREMENT.

NO CONVICTION (Hearing of FAITH) = NO CONVERSION.

 

[TomL]

Not the "NEED", but the absolute REQUIREMENT.

NO CONVICTION (Hearing of FAITH) = NO CONVERSION.

Well, It still says nothing whatsoever about faith being effectually, irresistibly caused by God.

 

[TomL]

Questionable - is "I" sort term, or LONG term. By my experience it's NOT "Short term" since it required about 15 years to work in my case, and - If I had been convinced that He'd come again in conviction, I probably wouldn't have done in in '63 either, - BUT the verse (Gen 6:3) stuck in my mind syating that HE doesn't ALWAYS STRIVE with man. SO I made the FREE WILL DECISION to surrender at that point. But the hard and fast RULE is:

NO CONVICTION = NO CONVERSION.

So the conviction was not irresistable

 

[TomL]

Yeah says nothing about having ability to believe. That person didnt have understanding. That was fake believing, Believing is when you believe and understand and bear fruit Matt 13:23

23ut he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

See that one has a good ground heart, regenerated

Do you read?


Luke 8:13 (NASB95) — 13 “Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

No wonder you were kicked out

 

[brightfame52]

Do you read?


Luke 8:13 (NASB95) — 13 “Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

No wonder you were kicked out

Yeah says nothing about having ability to believe. That person didnt have understanding. That was fake believing, Believing is when you believe and understand and bear fruit Matt 13:23

23ut he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

See that one has a good ground heart, regenerated

Also I still received a BBE at another College

 

[TomL]

Yeah says nothing about having ability to believe. That person didnt have understanding. That was fake believing, Believing is when you believe and understand and bear fruit Matt 13:23

23ut he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

See that one has a good ground heart, regenerated

Also I still received a BBE at another College

Seriously?

Luke 8:13 (LEB) — 13 And those on the rock are those who receive the word with joy when they hear it, and these do not have enough root, who believe for a time and in a time of testing fall away.

so they believe without an ability to believe

Your BBE must not have required an ability to read

 

[brightfame52]

Seriously?

Luke 8:13 (LEB) — 13 And those on the rock are those who receive the word with joy when they hear it, and these do not have enough root, who believe for a time and in a time of testing fall away.

so they believe without an ability to believe

Your BBE must not have required an ability to read

In essence they didnt believe in the salvation sense

 

[Bob Carabbio]

No

Calvinism holds man is not able to believe unless God effectually causes him to believe

So argue with Rom 10:17. Belief isn't the issue, FAITH is. "Belief" doesn't possess have either of the requirements stated in Heb 11:1

Belief has no "Substance, and isn't an "Evidence" of anything.

 

[brightfame52]

So argue with Rom 10:17. Belief isn't the issue, FAITH is. "Belief" doesn't possess have either of the requirements stated in Heb 11:1

Belief has no "Substance, and isn't an "Evidence" of anything.

You know Im not siding with that poster, however according to Heb 11:6 isnt believing an intricate component of Faith ? Heb 11;6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. In fact they are pretty much the same greek word

 

[TomL]

So argue with Rom 10:17. Belief isn't the issue, FAITH is. "Belief" doesn't possess have either of the requirements stated in Heb 11:1

Belief has no "Substance, and isn't an "Evidence" of anything.

Are you really going to tell me you did not know the Greek is PISTIS for faith and belief?

 

[TomL]

In essence they didnt believe in the salvation sense

They believed, but your doctrine says they couldn't

Hello

 

[Johann]

So argue with Rom 10:17. Belief isn't the issue, FAITH is. "Belief" doesn't possess have either of the requirements stated in Heb 11:1

Belief has no "Substance, and isn't an "Evidence" of anything.

Your statement is incorrect because "faith" (πίστις) and "belief" (also πίστις / πιστεύω) are not two different concepts in biblical Greek, but rather two aspects of the same term—noun and verb.

J.

 

[TomL]

Your statement is incorrect because "faith" (πίστις) and "belief" (also πίστις / πιστεύω) are not two different concepts in biblical Greek, but rather two aspects of the same term—noun and verb.

J.

Yep His statement was incorrect

 

[brightfame52]

They believed, but your doctrine says they couldn't

Hello

Duh The parable is telling you that the faith wasn't real, it wasnt rooted in salvation. Man naturally has the abilty to believe the gospel with intellectual consent to the doctrines, but its not believing in the sense as believing in Christ because of salvation as fruit, that they cannot do.

Jesus had many for a while that believed on Him because He fed their bellies, but thats not the believing faith that pleases God, it was only the flesh Jn 2:23-25

23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.

24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,

25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

 

[TomL]

Duh The parable is telling you that the faith wasn't real, it wasnt rooted in salvation. Man naturally has the abilty to believe the gospel with intellectual consent to the doctrines, but its not believing in the sense as believing in Christ because of salvation as fruit, that they cannot do.

So you have redefined Total inability which according to Calvinists, states man cannot accept the things of the spirit of God.

 

[brightfame52]

So you have redefined Total inability which according to Calvinists, states man cannot accept the things of the spirit of God.

The believing there was fake, thats what the parable illustrates, he cant really believe in Christ as the one with a good heart could.

 

[TomL]

The believing there was fake, thats what the parable illustrates, he cant really believe in Christ as the one with a good heart could.

Sorry, the text does not say that.

Once again, you add to scripture.

Can you explain why God thought it necessary to prevent men from believing below?

John 12:40 (NASB95) — 40 “HE HAS BLINDED THEIR EYES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM.”

According to your theology, he did not need to do anything.

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry, the text does not say that.

Once again, you add to scripture.

Can you explain why God thought it necessary to prevent men from believing below?

John 12:40 (NASB95) — 40 “HE HAS BLINDED THEIR EYES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM.”

According to your theology, he did not need to do anything.

The believing there was fake, thats what the parable illustrates, he cant really believe in Christ as the one with a good heart could.

 

[TomL]

The believing there was fake, thats what the parable illustrates, he cant really believe in Christ as the one with a good heart could.

First you ignored addressing why God had to harden these men to prevent belief

John 12:40 (NASB95) — 40 “HE HAS BLINDED THEIR EYES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM.”

According to your theology, he did not need to do anything.

second there is nothing in the text of Luke 8:13 which states their belief was fake