Correct-this is irrefutable and I have the writings of Sages to prove that.Thris still has not been refuted and stands as the truth. No wonder its being avoided like the plague.
A strike also to all who hold Christ is a "created being"
J.
Correct-this is irrefutable and I have the writings of Sages to prove that.Thris still has not been refuted and stands as the truth. No wonder its being avoided like the plague.
Irrefutable just like the new thread I started on monogenes. Good luck for those who oppose the truth presented.Correct-this is irrefutable and I have the writings of Sages to prove that.
A strike also to all who hold Christ is a "created being"
J.
so is being a preacher so I guess you don't listen to sermons either since its a monologue not a dialogue right.
Well said and sound advice brother.There’s nothing wrong with that. If you find them profitable, I would encourage you to continue listening to them.
I’ve read more trinitarian authors and attended more trinitarian lectures than most trinitarians I’ve met at this level. I’ve asked a few trinitarian members of this forum if they have something to share which I haven’t seen before. They haven’t very often, but I appreciate the few that they have.
I‘ve found much that I’m able to agree with in the writings of trinitarian scholars.
I’m sure you must have heard me say this before but, on the off chance that you haven’t, I’ll repeat it here.
Read widely. Read deeply. Read thoughtfully. Read critically.
Well said and sound advice brother.
Do you read the ancient rabbinical writings as well re the Two Powers? Memra-Metatron-Ha-Malack of YHVH?
Just one question brother-would you encourage Trinitarian audiences to not only study church history but rabbinical sources as well? Custom, cultures etc.I have.
Just one question brother-would you encourage Trinitarian audiences to not only study church history but rabbinical sources as well? Custom, cultures etc.
As far as I remember and I might be wrong I think you and I had a misunderstanding since I was the only member with Jewish sources and currently still doing a research on the Jewishness of our Scriptures.
Any advice-directives?
Thanks brother.
Johann.
yes ... this flesh is definitely not the body He made for us in paradise (npsh)Yeah, kind of. In Romans 8:18-25 when speaking of the future release of God's creation from today's state of bondage, that will include the redemption of our body Paul says in verse 23. What body? Our spirit body that everyone already has that dwells inside their flesh (see 2 Corinthians 5).
This forum is allot different.This forum is a little different. While discussion is allowed, this isn’t a typical discussion forum. This is an apologetics forum. The owner is the home team and the home team is always right. There may be nuances, but the home team won the ballgame before the whistle blew to start play.
NONESENSE, the bible is Clear. Listen, Genesis 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."On the Jewish-Christian Doctrine of the Pre-Existence of the Messiah on JSTOR
George A. Barton, On the Jewish-Christian Doctrine of the Pre-Existence of the Messiah, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 21, No. 1 (1902), pp. 78-91www.jstor.org
For those, like @101G, who are interested in learning about ideal preexistence.
NONESENSE, the bible is Clear. Listen, Genesis 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."
Genesis 49:10 "The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be."
did the seed or Shiloh, preexist, or the Person who is the SEED, or Shiloh to come exist? or preexist? answer neither. SAY WHAT? now the definition of,
EXIST: LISTEN CAREFULLY. (third person present) 1. have objective reality or being. ALERT, ALERT. now 2. be found, especially in a particular place or situation. let's break this down.
#1. "have objective reality or being". is not the OBJECTIVE of the SEED, or SHILOH, was accomplish in the beginning? answer, NO, it was to come, hence the term, "OBJECTIVE". and..... did the SEED, or SHILOH manifest in the beginning? answer, no.
now, #2. "be found, especially in a particular place or situation" was the SEED or SHILOH found at the beginning? answer, no.
so there was no preexistence of the SEED nor of SHILOH. now listen carefully, but of the PERSON who is the SEED, and the PERSON who is SHILOH, EXISTED, always. there is no preexistence with God. he is...... EXISTANCE. for the SEED and SHILOH, was to come in time. and God is all TIME. so a notion of any preexistence of God is as said, NONESENSE.
listen carefully. the PERSON, who is the SEED to Come, or the SON of God, SHILOH, PERSON who was to come, did not preexist, but the PERSON EXIST, always. understand now.
let 101G put it another way for better clarification. the Christ, or the SEED of God CREATED, or MADE NOTHING in the BEGINNING, but Jesus, who is the PERSON, that is the SEED, and Who is SHILOH, did create ALL THINGS IN THE BEGINNING.
got it now? this nonsense of God as in ideal preexistence, is just that ..... "IDEAL". preexistence that is an "OBJECTIVE" is nonsense.
101G.
Now back to our regular programming the irrefutable pre existence of the Son.The Sons pre existence in John’s gospel. There are dozens of other scriptures in other places verifying the Eternal existence of the Son.
John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.
All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory
These verses in John’s prologue reveal the pre existence of the Eternal Word/Son who was God and became flesh. He was the Creator of all things. Nothing came into existence apart from Him. He is before everything that has a beginning.
John 1:15
15 John bore witness of Him, and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'"
John 1:30
"This is He on behalf of whom I said, 'After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'
John the Baptist was 6 months older than Jesus Christ. So it is impossible for Christ to be before him unless Jesus pre existed.
John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven — the Son of Man.
Again we see the pre existence of the Son and where He declares that He came from heaven to earth.
John 3:17
"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him.
This verse shows the Son was sent from heaven by the Father to the earth.
John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.
Human beings come into existence when they are born into this world, but we surely do not come from Heaven.
John 8:23
"You are from beneath I Am from above, you are of this world I Am not of this world"
John 8:58
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I Am."
Here we see that Jesus lets the Pharisees know that He existed as a person before Abraham was born. Once again we see Jesus claiming to be the Eternal God.
John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
John 17:1,5
“Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You,
And now, Father, glorify Me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
Here we see the Son declared that He shared the same Glory together with the Father prior to creation. This passage makes Him equal with the Father as the Eternal God. Below again we see His pre existence and in 17:25 Jesus again states the Father sent the Son into the world
John 17:24
"Father, I desire that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am, in order that they may behold My glory, which Thou hast given Me; for Thou didst love Me before the foundation of the world.
hope this helps !!!
I read through "GOD" Eyes. if you cannot understand the Scriptures, sorry for you.Reading scripture through Jewish eyes produces a much different understanding of scripture than does reading scripture through gentile eyes.
I read through "GOD" Eyes. if you cannot understand the Scriptures, sorry for you.
now to prove my point, here is what you do not understand. to expose this pre-existence, learn this very one verse. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."
this not only expose your pre-existence ERROR, but at the same time certify the ONE and ONLY person who EXIST, before, now, and for always.
101G.
sure in Christ Jesus.Party on.
what did you give 101G? ....... I must have missed it.ou asked me for something and I gave it to you. You’re welcome.
what did you give 101G? ....... I must have missed it.
101G.
well quit peddling FOOL'S Gold and have it tested before you try to sell it.I gave you gold (i.e., ideal preexistence); you assessed it as pyrite (nonsense / fool’s gold.)
well quit peddling FOOL'S Gold and have it test before you try to sell it.
101G.