Anja
Active Member
So you are insinuating I'm calling Jesus a Lier? Wow,,, Just to prove your incorrect point. I call that "Gaslighting."
Open Debate on the "Eternal Sonship vs Incarnate Sonship which is biblical?"
- Thread starter FreeInChrist
- Start date
101G
Active Member
To all,
JESUS is the ONE and only TRUE God who made all things in the BEGINNING. Genesis 1:1 says it all in the term "GOD".
H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433
Compare: H5945, H7706, H8199, H4397
the [plural of H433]? so who is H433? let's see,
H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m.
אֱלֹהַּ 'eloahh (el-o'-ah) [shortened (rarely)]
1. one with supreme strength and ability.
2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator, Yahweh by name.
3. a supreme entity, a god-like creature (that is, one of God's supreme creations, or one of man's inventions).
[probably prolonged (emphat.) from H410]
KJV: God, god.
Definition #2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator please NOTE, "THE", "THE", "THE" Creator, the definite article is used. identifying "ONE" person... good, but what about, H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m. in the first definition?
H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m. is the [plural of H433] "of" is the key to understanding God plurality.
of: expressing the relationship between a part and a whole. let's get the understanding of expressing this relationship between a part and a whole. using the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words of means, "of" translates the genitive case of nouns, with various shades of meaning. Of these the subjective and objective are mentioned here, which need careful distinction. lets see this distinction in part and a whole in two clear cut scripture. #1. Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" there is our answer, the "FORM" ...... "OF" ... God. form "of", "of", "of" God is,
Form: G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313
See also: G3445, G3446, G4832
Definition #2. perhaps from the base of G3313 so what is G3313? answer,
G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.
1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something).
2. a part.
BINGO, there is our relationship between a part and a whole in the word a portion. and the term a portion identify the plurality of God H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m. for "a portion" is synonyms with "SHARE,", this can be found at Word Hippo, https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/another-word-for/portion.html under " A part of a whole". again SHARE.
There is the research to understand God's plurality.
this relationship between a part and a whole that is expressed in First and Last, and in ROOT and Offspring, and here is the scriptural support, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
there it is "Offspring", it means,
G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Root(s): G1096
there is our answer, diversity, just as God gave it to 101G.
God is a "diversity" of, of, of, himself in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, and RANK.
this is why 101G is a Diversified Oneness
101G.
JESUS is the ONE and only TRUE God who made all things in the BEGINNING. Genesis 1:1 says it all in the term "GOD".
H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433
Compare: H5945, H7706, H8199, H4397
the [plural of H433]? so who is H433? let's see,
H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m.
אֱלֹהַּ 'eloahh (el-o'-ah) [shortened (rarely)]
1. one with supreme strength and ability.
2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator, Yahweh by name.
3. a supreme entity, a god-like creature (that is, one of God's supreme creations, or one of man's inventions).
[probably prolonged (emphat.) from H410]
KJV: God, god.
Definition #2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator please NOTE, "THE", "THE", "THE" Creator, the definite article is used. identifying "ONE" person... good, but what about, H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m. in the first definition?
H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m. is the [plural of H433] "of" is the key to understanding God plurality.
of: expressing the relationship between a part and a whole. let's get the understanding of expressing this relationship between a part and a whole. using the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words of means, "of" translates the genitive case of nouns, with various shades of meaning. Of these the subjective and objective are mentioned here, which need careful distinction. lets see this distinction in part and a whole in two clear cut scripture. #1. Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" there is our answer, the "FORM" ...... "OF" ... God. form "of", "of", "of" God is,
Form: G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313
See also: G3445, G3446, G4832
Definition #2. perhaps from the base of G3313 so what is G3313? answer,
G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.
1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something).
2. a part.
BINGO, there is our relationship between a part and a whole in the word a portion. and the term a portion identify the plurality of God H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m. for "a portion" is synonyms with "SHARE,", this can be found at Word Hippo, https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/another-word-for/portion.html under " A part of a whole". again SHARE.
There is the research to understand God's plurality.
this relationship between a part and a whole that is expressed in First and Last, and in ROOT and Offspring, and here is the scriptural support, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
there it is "Offspring", it means,
G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Root(s): G1096
there is our answer, diversity, just as God gave it to 101G.
God is a "diversity" of, of, of, himself in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, and RANK.
this is why 101G is a Diversified Oneness
101G.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
I choose to believe what I read.
And what I believe isBoth God and Jesus are integral to the act of creation, with God as the ultimate source and Jesus as the means through which creation occurred.
You quote John 1:3 and yes... this is the Son.
Think of it this way.
God (the Father) Jesus (Son)
Creator of all things. Creator through whom all things were made
Genesis 1:1 John 1:3
Eternal, not created Eternal , Divine Son of God ... the 2nd in the Godhead.
Got Questions simplifies this answer to the question...Is Jesus the creator?
Answer: Genesis 1:1 says that “God created the heavens and the earth.” Then, Colossians 1:16 gives the added detail that God created “all things” through Jesus Christ. The plain teaching of Scripture, therefore, is that Jesus is the Creator of the universe.
Does this answer your question?
101G
Active Member
nope, for the CREATOR was alone.... Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
ALONE please look it up.
101G
Peterlag
Active Member
Behold the Deception of a Trinity mind...
I just saw a post where Matthew 16:16 is quoted where Peter tells us exactly who Jesus was.
Matthew 16:16
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ (Messiah) the Son of the living God.
A Trinity guy wrote...
"When Peter exclaimed that he knew Jesus was the Son of the living God, he was speaking from a Jewish mindset."
I might add Peter did not have a Jewish mindset. He had an Apostle of Jesus Christ mindset. Now let's look at the deception.
1.) Trinity guy says Peter was speaking from his Jewish mindset.
2.) Jesus said Peter spoke from what God revealed to him.
I just saw a post where Matthew 16:16 is quoted where Peter tells us exactly who Jesus was.
Matthew 16:16
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ (Messiah) the Son of the living God.
A Trinity guy wrote...
"When Peter exclaimed that he knew Jesus was the Son of the living God, he was speaking from a Jewish mindset."
I might add Peter did not have a Jewish mindset. He had an Apostle of Jesus Christ mindset. Now let's look at the deception.
1.) Trinity guy says Peter was speaking from his Jewish mindset.
2.) Jesus said Peter spoke from what God revealed to him.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
So you prefer Isa 44:24 over Colossians 1:16?
You can't just simply say something that openly contradicts something else without context to explain the difference. You do this all the time.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Behold the mind of a Unitarian.
I wouldn't say that at about what Peter said at all. You're deceiving!
Christ is both Son and God. He is also Messiah.
Just because you're devoid of the ability to pat your head and rub your stomach at the same time does equal anything relative to reality.
Peterlag
Active Member
I did not make it up. The deception was taken right off the Trinity Facebook group site just hours ago.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Wow... a Facebook group site that is authoritative. Geesh. You really are an "authority" yourself.
This is why you quote sources instead of just posting as your own. It is one of the reasons I use my own content. Your inexperience is showing.
Just FYI. A public or private facebook group isn't authoritative. They can do what you're doing. You just make things up and use sources that just "make things up".
civic
Active Member
Peterlag
Active Member
That's what I think of you. Just make up stuff that is not in the Bible like the following that I also did not write...
Terms found nowhere in Scripture...
- Deity
- Co-equal
- Co-eternal
- Incarnated
- Eternal son
- Infinite son
- God the son
- One substance
- Persons of God
- God became man
- Eternally begotten
- Pre-existent Christ
- God the Holy Spirit
- Pre-incarnate Christ
- Three persons, three in one
- Trinity, Triune God, tri-unity
- Two nature's, Hypostatic union
FreeInChrist
Active Member
praise_yeshua
Active Member
The very name of Jesus isn't in the Bible. I hope you realize that the words you're referencing are from no later than the 11th century. I know you don't. Just bluster for you. You should learn about etymology. That isn't in the bible either...
The word Deity has it origins in Latin but also derives from θεός. Did you know that θεός also can be found in modern English references.
You really are inexperienced.
The mislead cannot help but choose in error. Jesus words are truth, that is what i am saying.
Peterlag
Active Member
It seems it would have been clearly stated in the Bible and in the earliest Christian creeds if the doctrine of the Trinity was genuine and central to Christian belief and especially if belief in it was necessary for salvation as many Trinitarians teach. God gave the Scriptures to the Jewish people, and the Jewish religion and worship that comes from that revelation does not contain any reference to or teachings about a triune God. Surely the Jewish people were qualified to read and understand it, but they never saw the doctrine of the Trinity.
Peterlag
Active Member
What happened with this post? Did you just ignore it to tell me I'm inexperienced?
What verse says very clearly what the purpose of God was in coming to this earth?
I will number them to make it easy for you.
1.) John 12:23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified
2.) John 12:24 Verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
3.) John 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Didn't I post these verses? I have no idea why you're just given them back to me with your own numbers.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
That isn't true at all. In Judaism there is a history of two distinctly described Messiahs. Messiah ben David and Messiah ben Joseph.
Unlike yourself. I've been spent much time debating Judaism. You don't know what you're talking about.
So... take what I just told you. Use those "names" and get busy learning. Stop pretending you know Judaism.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
@Peterlag,
Why don't you write a Creed. To your beliefs.
Post it on enough forums and I bet you will get a following.
101G
Active Member
GINOLJC, to all.
did it contradict? ... NO. and do 101G prefer Isa 44:24 over Colossians 1:16? no. but Isaiah 44:24 confirms Colossians 1:16?
Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
Colossians 1:16 "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"
P.Y., let understand the term "BY". in both verses.
using the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English, the term "BY" means,
BY, prep.
1. Near; close; as, sit by me; that house stands by a river.
[L. pressus.]
2. Near, in motion; as, to move, go or pass by a church. But it seems, in other phrases,or with a verb in the past time, to signify past, gone beyond. "The procession is gone by;" "the hour is gone by;" "John went by." We now use past as an equivalent word. The procession is gone past. Gone by is in strictness tautology, as now used; but I apprehend by signifies primarily near.
3. Through, or with, denoting the agent, means, instrument or cause; as, "a city is destroyed by fire;" "profit is made by commerce;" "to take by force." This use answers to that of the Latin per, through, denoting a passing, acting, agency, or instrumentality.
The third definition gives us our answer. Through, or with Through his "WORD", or With his "WORD", he God, Jesus ,spoke all things into existence. and praise_yeshua, put on your thinking cap... please. for the the term "ALONE" means, having no one else present. and if no one else is present, then how can he go through, or by, someone else who is NOT THERE.... hello, think man.
see, if you would have looked up "BY" ..... and "Alone" you would KNOW. see, the "WORD" of God, John 1:1 was ..... "WITH" God in the beginning, or he is God "OWN" Words, in speech that was spoken in the beginning...... and God SAID, "Let there be"..... Words ... spoken words.
Just as in his "GOD".... OWN ARM, that brought SALVATION HIM... SELF. Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me." HIS OWN ARM IS HE HIMSELF...... "OWN" YES POSSESSIVE, OWNERSHIP. HIS, HIS, HIS, "OWN ARM. which is a PERSON, himself, listen and Learn, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?" Isaiah 53:2 "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him." Isaiah 53:3 "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not." Isaiah 53:4 "Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted." Isaiah 53:5 "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."
WHO "ARM" IS THIS IN Isaiah 53? your answer please.
see, just as The ARM of God is God's OWN "PERSON", (manifested in POWER),so is his Word, (manifested in his "OWN" Person, in a body of flesh and blood, John 1:14) NOT A SEPARATE AND DISTINCT PERSON, BUT HE GOD, "HIMSELF", EQUALLY SHARED, as Phil. 2:6 states. and Revelation 22:16, the OFFSPRING. both Isaiah 44:24 and Colossians 1:16 clearly states, the person of God manifested in flesh, as his own "Word" or his own "ARM".
101G
