101G
Active Member
Body and soul are not being, nor PERSONS. but Body and soul and spirit, can make one person. you want to give it another try?
101G.
Open Debate on the "Eternal Sonship vs Incarnate Sonship which is biblical?"
- Thread starter FreeInChrist
- Start date
101G.
@Studyman @FreeInChrist
That's you Studyman, from the first time (back on Mountain Retreat forum, to Grace Centered, to here) I read you post until now, same old message, to whoever you are writing to, and on what subject you are discussing. You live in a very small corner of God's precious word, and that's your choice you have made apart from the Spirit of the Living God.
Now concerning your words above. God's word tell us when a day start and when it ends and we have practice this since post Resurrection of Jesus Christ, and maybe the world as a whole has from the beginning until now, except the Jews religion that was done away with at the resurrection of Jesus Christ. A religion that you still mixed with Christianity.
I have already provided scriptures above concerning the first day of the week, that started at midnight. Not going to do so again. I agree with @FreeInChrist for the most part:
So it had to be on the first day of a new week before the sun arose on the first of a new week, even though started under the NT at midnight. False teachers want to move the coma after week to after first, to support their Sabbath day worship as being the day we under the NT should come together to worship. But they wrest the scriptures as they do other scriptures unto their own destruction.
Never have said those words directly or in directly, God forbid. What we do is something the false teachers in every generation have failed to do, nor where they gifted to do, is to do as Ezra, and all men and women that fear God have diligently practiced:
2nd Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
If righteous Ezra and men before and after him had to practiced this godly method of teaching the word of truth, now much more should we.
In doing so we should also heed this from Paul:
2nd Timothy 2:19
"Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity."
I do not, and neither do you.
I decided to come back and answer some of your ranting and raging spirit about a bunch of nothing, which is what men like you do when they are void of truth, as I have said many times in the past, you are a broken record, to whoever you post to regardless of what is being discuss...it is the same message or idea without adding anything new ~ and maybe you should consider changing you name from Studyman, to Mr. Repetitiousness, seriously, since it is the same old vain jangling.
1st Timothy 1:6
“From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;”That's you Studyman, from the first time (back on Mountain Retreat forum, to Grace Centered, to here) I read you post until now, same old message, to whoever you are writing to, and on what subject you are discussing. You live in a very small corner of God's precious word, and that's your choice you have made apart from the Spirit of the Living God.
Now concerning your words above. God's word tell us when a day start and when it ends and we have practice this since post Resurrection of Jesus Christ, and maybe the world as a whole has from the beginning until now, except the Jews religion that was done away with at the resurrection of Jesus Christ. A religion that you still mixed with Christianity.
I have already provided scriptures above concerning the first day of the week, that started at midnight. Not going to do so again. I agree with @FreeInChrist for the most part:
True, yet we know that it had to be past midnight because of such scriptures as:
Mark 16:9
“Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.”So it had to be on the first day of a new week before the sun arose on the first of a new week, even though started under the NT at midnight. False teachers want to move the coma after week to after first, to support their Sabbath day worship as being the day we under the NT should come together to worship. But they wrest the scriptures as they do other scriptures unto their own destruction.
2nd Peter 3:16
“As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.”I skipped over much of your repetitiousness that you are famously known for, to only say this:
Never have said those words directly or in directly, God forbid. What we do is something the false teachers in every generation have failed to do, nor where they gifted to do, is to do as Ezra, and all men and women that fear God have diligently practiced:
Nehemiah 8:8
“So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.”2nd Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
If righteous Ezra and men before and after him had to practiced this godly method of teaching the word of truth, now much more should we.
In doing so we should also heed this from Paul:
This is why we pick very carefully anymore your vain babbling concerning what we should or should not discuss, just enough to reveal your false teaching without going into the depth of your babbling. We judge not you but your teachings which is all we can judge righteously. I would not judge you on the same level as Kenneth Copeland for you both have different errors, which is all I can and should judge.
2nd Timothy 2:19
"Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity."
I do not, and neither do you.
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FreeInChrist
Active Member
Actually I will not argue this at all with you because I feel strongly in neither direction.
I am just trying to figure out when, if it, in fact, happened as the Apostles Creed says...
"was crucified, dead, and was buried; he descended to hell."
That has been explained as
1. to free the righteous souls who had died before His resurrection, offering them salvation.
And they use the following as proof. Oy!!!!!!!!!!!
Eph 4: 9-10 says...
9 (Now this expression, “He ascended,” what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.)
And
1 Peter 3:19-20
19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.
I shall ignore those who also use Matt 12:40
for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
To suggest that Jesus would be in the heart of the earth for three days, which is interpreted as His time in Hades.
Idiots, when we know he was in a basic cave....
But funny people those from the RCC, They word things to suit themselves in their Creeds, even when it is not biblical.
I tend to agree with you.... but not because of the the timing needing to be after midnight nor because of those who cling to Saturdays as their Sabbath, but because it was discovered the tomb was empty.
In fact it could well have been after 6PM the night before for the actual resurrection. because no one would know.
What you bolded
“Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.”
This first of all does not say that Jesus rose early on the first day, it says
“Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.”
....it says after Jesus was risen he appeared first to Mary early on the first day of the week.
BUT THAT IS MISLEADING BECAUSE if Sunday started at 12:01AM and she was there just before or at sunrise... 6 hours were already in the first day.
I am going to close this for now because have you ever noticed how much is not in the Holy Bible... such as more specifics on the actual resurrected tims.
Also have you wondered why few, if any, churches or clergy even bring up the veil being torn and the graves opening at crucifixion upon His death.
Matt 27
50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.
51 And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.
52 And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.
There is so many pieces of the puzzle of the Scriptures... but , alas, people get stuck on the same old, same old.
@FreeInChrist
Later...RB
Sorry, let me look at his after a short trip to Greenville and back. I do have some convictions concerning this which I can share.
Later...RB
@FreeInChrist
And righteous Stephen said the same.
“And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” ( a great verse to prove Jesus is God!
I trust I can do the same when my time comes and also have the same spirit Stephen had toward those who killed them. Paul was one of them, so his prayer was indeed answered. And he was eyewitness of his prayers being answered.
Who are those witnesses? Hebrews eleven Hall of Faith!
You know by experience that your friend is not a man of few words when it comes to the scriptures, I can discuss them 24/7 almost. My wonderful wife allows me that freedom without ever complaining, or hindering me. Together we have read the bible through few times. I now see this in some of my older grandchildren who are married following our steps, maybe not exactly, but I allow them that freedom to not pressure them to do exactly as we have done, and in their own time they have come to me for advice on certain doctrine then I will explain it to them. But I'm carefully to do as Christ did:
Where there's signs of life we are careful not to offend God's little one. We lead them on softly and gently just as Christ did to his apostles. We darn not overdrive young believers.
Young believers are the same.
Sorry, I'll stop.
Okay...Later
Yes, and his spirit he commended back to God!
Luke 23:46
“And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.”And righteous Stephen said the same.
Acts 7:59
“And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” ( a great verse to prove Jesus is God!
Acts 7:60
“And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.”I trust I can do the same when my time comes and also have the same spirit Stephen had toward those who killed them. Paul was one of them, so his prayer was indeed answered. And he was eyewitness of his prayers being answered.
Hebrews 12:1
“Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,”Who are those witnesses? Hebrews eleven Hall of Faith!
You know by experience that your friend is not a man of few words when it comes to the scriptures, I can discuss them 24/7 almost. My wonderful wife allows me that freedom without ever complaining, or hindering me. Together we have read the bible through few times. I now see this in some of my older grandchildren who are married following our steps, maybe not exactly, but I allow them that freedom to not pressure them to do exactly as we have done, and in their own time they have come to me for advice on certain doctrine then I will explain it to them. But I'm carefully to do as Christ did:
Matthew 12:20
“A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.”Where there's signs of life we are careful not to offend God's little one. We lead them on softly and gently just as Christ did to his apostles. We darn not overdrive young believers.
Genesis 33:13
“And he said unto him, My lord knoweth that the children are tender, and the flocks and herds with young are with me: and if men should overdrive them one day, all the flock will die.”Young believers are the same.
Sorry, I'll stop.
Okay...Later
Duane
Active Member
One person is all I need. Multiple personality disorder is not for me.
It is true the bible remains the same whether you are a Calvinist or a Jehovah Witness or a Pharisee or any of the religious sects and businesses that make up this world's religious system. And all the Prophets warn of the same deception, over and over and over and over and over. And the God who inspired them teaches over and over and over and over and over, "I am the Lord your God, obey MY Commandments and walk in my Statutes that you may live in the Land I have prepared for my people."
I can see how someone like you who has adopted the Philosophies of the "other voice" in the garden might get tired of the same message over and over and over and over.
If only you and Constantine could have been there in the beginning, you guys could have corrected God concerning His Error of sanctifying and making Holy the wrong day, and the foolishness of creating a day that starts when the sun goes down. And placing Eve in a garden with the most deceitful, and desperately wicked being ever to be created, "With no assistance at all", it's good that you and Constantine are here to "save us" from this God "of the Bible".
It is true that your god created a day that starts in darkness, and ends in darkness. And you are a servant to whom you "Yield yourself" to obey. So you will continue to promote your god, "The prince of Darkness".
But the God of Abraham, the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, He is the God of "Light". His Son is the Light of this world". His God created a day that starts in darkness, but ends in Light. His Character is revealed in the Nature that surrounds us, and in the Holy Scriptures.
Dark first, then Light. Weakness first, then strength. Ignorance first, then wisdom. The first Adam, then the second Adam. You fall first, and by falling, you learn to walk. Old man first, then New man.
6 days of work, the the 7th day rest. Tested first, then glorified.
Passover first, then Feast of Unleavened Bread.
It's all over the Bible, and all over in the nature of God that surrounds us.
But to glorify the Mother of this world's religious system, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, you must deny and reject all these things of the God of the Bible, and promote instead, a god whose day starts in darkness, and ends in darkness.
You don't "Have to", but you "Choose" of your own free will, to adopt this "other god" in the garden that Jesus' God placed us in.
For your god's day that starts in darkness and ends in darkness, this may be true. But for those who understand what the Scriptures actually teach, that God's Day Starts at Sundown, "And the Evening and the morning were the first day", early Sunday morning is just after Sundown. This is why they hurried to place him in the grave before the Day of Preparation ended. Your teaching that the Day of Preparation ended at Midnight is absurd. That Jesus ate the Passover meal with His Disciples after Midnight, is gobblygook. But it is what Constantine declared and the religion he started promotes. And like you, the entire World is happy to adopt the Philosophies of Constantine. While the Judgments of the God of the Bible are despised and rejected, His Sabbaths mocked, and His day destroyed.
Truly the Holy scriptures are right, and the religions of this world, led by the prince of darkness that deceived them, does indeed hate the God and Father of the Lord's Christ. It's no wonder Jesus said for his People to "Come out of her", that great whore.
Your mission here is to justify Calvinism, along with many religious philosophies created by the RCC. Here is a short list of the doctrines you are peddling to others.
Jesus' God made a mistake when HE created a Day that started at sundown in creation.
Jesus' God made a mistake by sanctifying and Setting apart as holy, the 7th Day and not the 1st day.
Jesus' God made a mistake when HE created Adam and Eve and gave them a Law, but didn't give them the ability to obey the Law.
Jesus' God made a mistake when HE sent Eve into a world in which HE placed the most deceitful and desperately wicked being ever created, into the garden, when HE sent her with no warning, or as you preach "with no assistance at all".
Then Jesus' God, according to you and Constantine, punished Eve and every human ever born because of His Mistake, by creating us all with a "sin Nature" that Adam and Eve were not created with.
Then Jesus' God, according to you and Kenneth Copeland, created Laws impossible to obey, lied to the entire world by telling them they could obey, gave them false examples of men that did obey, then slaughtered thousands of them when they didn't obey.
This teaching was false the first time you promoted it all those years ago. And it's still false today.
And I hope you are feeling better, perhaps when you rest, you might consider the wisdom of the God "of the Bible" to create a Day that begins in darkness and ends in Light.
@FreeInChrist
My wife asked me to let her go and I stay, since she does not want me to over do anything for at least a week. I said GO. She is one of the most gracious people I have ever meet, I am sure there're others that can say the same about their spouses. We have been together since she just turned 15 back late1966 and I just turned 18 and really dumb spiritually speaking.
Okay to your text:
The key words here are, "by which!" By His death and suffering for the unjust and His being quickened (Resurrected), He preached the gospel to the spirits in Prison who were sometimes disobedient. The efficacy here is in the death and resurrection of Christ, which preached to the spirits and set them free from that prison. The anointing of the Spirit of the Lord is that which "preaches to all of us," and is by the death and resurrection of Christ. We have all received that preaching of the Spirit by Christ's death.
1st John 2:27
"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."
Who is in you and who is teaching you, proclaiming (preaching) the truth of the gospel to you? Is it man, or is it the anointing of the Spirit of Christ in you, which was acquired by Christ's death? Who preached peace to the spirits in Prison, and how was that accomplished?
Ephesaians 2:15-18
"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father."
This is how Christ came and preached peace to those far off (Gentiles) and those near (Jews). This is an undeniable truth that through Him, we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. This is how Christ preached peace unto the spirits in prison. By the one Spirit that came to dwell within us and set us free from bondage to Satan. We were risen up with Christ when He was quickened, and receive this spirit in Him, the fulfillment of prophecy. He brought the gospel of deliverance to man. And the efficacy of the cross reaches all the way back to Noah. He also (as all saints) needed to be set free from the prison house of bondage to Satan. For Satan keeps men's spirit in that prison house of darkness, and it was only by Christ's death and resurrection, that he bound Satan and spoiled his house. Indeed, it was for this reason that Christ came as the Deliverer. To set these spirits free! And Jesus Himself says it as plain as it can get when He quoted His fulfillment of this prophecy:
Luke 4:18
"The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He hath anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to Preach Deliverance to the Captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised."
The doctrine that most hold to 1st Peter 3:18-20 what the RCC teaches concerning Purgatory, which is a lie of the devil. I do not know where the apostles creed came from and personally do not care, since I do not live by it, but by the scriptures.
It's talking about Christ's mission and what it would accomplish in salvation. He came to deliver those who were held captive in Satan's Prison house of darkness, that they might be set at liberty and made to see. This is the spirits in Prison that 1st Peter says He preached to by His death. This is the accomplishment of His death and quickening. When Jesus read in the Temple those words of Isaiah (recorded in Luke) and said that He was the fulfillment of this, He is shedding light upon just whom the spirits in prison were.
Isaiah 61:1
"The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me; because the Lord hath anointed Me to Preach good tidings unto the meek; He hath sent Me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the Prison to them that are bound."
Isaiah 42:6-7
"I, The Lord have called Thee in Righteousness, and will hold Thine hand, and will keep Thee, and give Thee for a COVENANT of the people, and a LIGHT of the gentiles; To OPEN the blind eyes, to bring out the Prisoners from the Prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the Prison House."
It was for this purpose that Christ came to lose the spirits in prison. Is God saying here that the prison houses of that day didn't have enough light in them, and their doors needed to be opened, or that Christ was supposed to go to the literal prisons and free the people there? He had the perfect opportunity to free John the Baptist in Prison, but John remained there. That was because the Prison house that is in view in all these prophecies was the Prison house of Satan. The spirits in "this" Prison house is the spirits that Christ came to preach deliverance to, and to set at liberty. This is what Christ meant in Luke chapter 4 when He said He came to preach deliverance to the captives. He, by His death and resurrection, preached deliverance to these spirits who were sometimes disobedient (being in bondage to sin), and thus had the penalty of death hanging over their heads.
He delivered not just you and me, but Noah and the eight souls in the ark as well. He set "their" spirits free just as He did you and me, because the efficacy of the "real work and accomplishment" of the cross reaches all the way to the beginning. Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8) because His blood covers those who were saved before the cross (as Noah) in the Old Testament times. That's what 1st Peter is talking about. The Spirit of Christ that those Christian men like Noah had, was because of His effective work on the cross. Christ's Spirit testified to their spirits in prison beforehand. And what He witnessed or preached of would be made effectual when their redeemer would come to earth in the flesh. In fact, in studying 1st Peter, if we would only read a few chapters before this verse about Noah, we can see where God speaks about these great prophets and how the spirit of Christ was indeed in them. And yes, this Spirit preached (testified) of His sufferings. But don't take my word for it.
1st Peter 1:11-12
"Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the Sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into."
Noah had the Spirit of Christ within him, and He preached to Noah's spirit in prison just as He does to our spirit when we became saved. So clearly, by the death of Christ were the spirits in Prison preached deliverance, and that efficacy reaches all the way to the old testament prophets, to whom the spirit of Christ testified beforehand of it. Truly, without Christ dying for them as well as us, they would remain spirits in prison. These Old Testament prophets were saved by the work of Christ by faith, looking forward to the efficacy of the Cross. We are saved by the work of Christ's faith, looking backward at the efficacy of the Cross. Both of us are risen with Christ, His Spirit preaching to ours, which was in the bondage of Satan's spiritual Prison.
Romans 8:15-16
"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:"
The spirit of bondage is gone, we are risen with Christ having now the Spirit of adoption. His Spirit bears witness with our spirit! It preached to our spirits in prison and set it at liberty. We no longer have the spirit of bondage to fear. When Jesus Christ said, this day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears (Luke 4:21) He was talking about His mission to free the unsaved from the prison house of Satan. If we look at it carefully, without the blinders of Church tradition or preconceived notions, we can see clearly what it means by, by His death, Christ went and preached deliverance to the spirits in Prison.
Mark 3:27
"No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then He will spoil his House."
In the exegesis of this parable we can see that Satan is the Strong Man, and Jesus is the one who came to the strong man's house to spoil (take, by conquest of his possessions) it. So what are the possessions of this house of Satan that Christ came to take by conquest? It is those chosen by Grace to be delivered. When we become saved, we have been taken from the prison house of Satan. We are no longer spirits in bondage to him. We no longer serve him, we become servants of God by right of His victory at the cross.
My wife asked me to let her go and I stay, since she does not want me to over do anything for at least a week. I said GO. She is one of the most gracious people I have ever meet, I am sure there're others that can say the same about their spouses. We have been together since she just turned 15 back late1966 and I just turned 18 and really dumb spiritually speaking.
Okay to your text:
1st Peter 3:18-20
“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”The key words here are, "by which!" By His death and suffering for the unjust and His being quickened (Resurrected), He preached the gospel to the spirits in Prison who were sometimes disobedient. The efficacy here is in the death and resurrection of Christ, which preached to the spirits and set them free from that prison. The anointing of the Spirit of the Lord is that which "preaches to all of us," and is by the death and resurrection of Christ. We have all received that preaching of the Spirit by Christ's death.
1st John 2:27
"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."
Who is in you and who is teaching you, proclaiming (preaching) the truth of the gospel to you? Is it man, or is it the anointing of the Spirit of Christ in you, which was acquired by Christ's death? Who preached peace to the spirits in Prison, and how was that accomplished?
Ephesaians 2:15-18
"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father."
This is how Christ came and preached peace to those far off (Gentiles) and those near (Jews). This is an undeniable truth that through Him, we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. This is how Christ preached peace unto the spirits in prison. By the one Spirit that came to dwell within us and set us free from bondage to Satan. We were risen up with Christ when He was quickened, and receive this spirit in Him, the fulfillment of prophecy. He brought the gospel of deliverance to man. And the efficacy of the cross reaches all the way back to Noah. He also (as all saints) needed to be set free from the prison house of bondage to Satan. For Satan keeps men's spirit in that prison house of darkness, and it was only by Christ's death and resurrection, that he bound Satan and spoiled his house. Indeed, it was for this reason that Christ came as the Deliverer. To set these spirits free! And Jesus Himself says it as plain as it can get when He quoted His fulfillment of this prophecy:
Luke 4:18
"The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He hath anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to Preach Deliverance to the Captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised."
The doctrine that most hold to 1st Peter 3:18-20 what the RCC teaches concerning Purgatory, which is a lie of the devil. I do not know where the apostles creed came from and personally do not care, since I do not live by it, but by the scriptures.
It's talking about Christ's mission and what it would accomplish in salvation. He came to deliver those who were held captive in Satan's Prison house of darkness, that they might be set at liberty and made to see. This is the spirits in Prison that 1st Peter says He preached to by His death. This is the accomplishment of His death and quickening. When Jesus read in the Temple those words of Isaiah (recorded in Luke) and said that He was the fulfillment of this, He is shedding light upon just whom the spirits in prison were.
Isaiah 61:1
"The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me; because the Lord hath anointed Me to Preach good tidings unto the meek; He hath sent Me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the Prison to them that are bound."
Isaiah 42:6-7
"I, The Lord have called Thee in Righteousness, and will hold Thine hand, and will keep Thee, and give Thee for a COVENANT of the people, and a LIGHT of the gentiles; To OPEN the blind eyes, to bring out the Prisoners from the Prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the Prison House."
It was for this purpose that Christ came to lose the spirits in prison. Is God saying here that the prison houses of that day didn't have enough light in them, and their doors needed to be opened, or that Christ was supposed to go to the literal prisons and free the people there? He had the perfect opportunity to free John the Baptist in Prison, but John remained there. That was because the Prison house that is in view in all these prophecies was the Prison house of Satan. The spirits in "this" Prison house is the spirits that Christ came to preach deliverance to, and to set at liberty. This is what Christ meant in Luke chapter 4 when He said He came to preach deliverance to the captives. He, by His death and resurrection, preached deliverance to these spirits who were sometimes disobedient (being in bondage to sin), and thus had the penalty of death hanging over their heads.
He delivered not just you and me, but Noah and the eight souls in the ark as well. He set "their" spirits free just as He did you and me, because the efficacy of the "real work and accomplishment" of the cross reaches all the way to the beginning. Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8) because His blood covers those who were saved before the cross (as Noah) in the Old Testament times. That's what 1st Peter is talking about. The Spirit of Christ that those Christian men like Noah had, was because of His effective work on the cross. Christ's Spirit testified to their spirits in prison beforehand. And what He witnessed or preached of would be made effectual when their redeemer would come to earth in the flesh. In fact, in studying 1st Peter, if we would only read a few chapters before this verse about Noah, we can see where God speaks about these great prophets and how the spirit of Christ was indeed in them. And yes, this Spirit preached (testified) of His sufferings. But don't take my word for it.
1st Peter 1:11-12
"Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the Sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into."
Noah had the Spirit of Christ within him, and He preached to Noah's spirit in prison just as He does to our spirit when we became saved. So clearly, by the death of Christ were the spirits in Prison preached deliverance, and that efficacy reaches all the way to the old testament prophets, to whom the spirit of Christ testified beforehand of it. Truly, without Christ dying for them as well as us, they would remain spirits in prison. These Old Testament prophets were saved by the work of Christ by faith, looking forward to the efficacy of the Cross. We are saved by the work of Christ's faith, looking backward at the efficacy of the Cross. Both of us are risen with Christ, His Spirit preaching to ours, which was in the bondage of Satan's spiritual Prison.
Romans 8:15-16
"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:"
The spirit of bondage is gone, we are risen with Christ having now the Spirit of adoption. His Spirit bears witness with our spirit! It preached to our spirits in prison and set it at liberty. We no longer have the spirit of bondage to fear. When Jesus Christ said, this day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears (Luke 4:21) He was talking about His mission to free the unsaved from the prison house of Satan. If we look at it carefully, without the blinders of Church tradition or preconceived notions, we can see clearly what it means by, by His death, Christ went and preached deliverance to the spirits in Prison.
Mark 3:27
"No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then He will spoil his House."
In the exegesis of this parable we can see that Satan is the Strong Man, and Jesus is the one who came to the strong man's house to spoil (take, by conquest of his possessions) it. So what are the possessions of this house of Satan that Christ came to take by conquest? It is those chosen by Grace to be delivered. When we become saved, we have been taken from the prison house of Satan. We are no longer spirits in bondage to him. We no longer serve him, we become servants of God by right of His victory at the cross.
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Duane
Active Member
I turned 18 in '66 and was drafted into the Army a week later.
@Duane
So, when is birthday? mine 8-19-1948
I was still in still school I was held back because of asthma that landed me in the hospital.
So, when is birthday? mine 8-19-1948
civic
Active Member
Born in 1960 , I'm just a youngen compared to you old farts
Duane
Active Member
Nov 18, 1948 looks like I'm younger than you, you old dude.
Are you still home? Get to work and pay into our Social Secretary Benefits.Born in 1960 , I'm just a youngen compared to you old farts
civic
Active Member
Getting ready for work.Nov 18, 1948 looks like I'm younger than you, you old dude.
Are you still home? Get to work and pay into our Social Secretary Benefits.
@Studyman
Your quote above I agree, but would add:
Not going to say very much, but just enough to let others know to beware of you.
Your quote above I agree, but would add:
I have never disagree that in the beginning God tells us when the day started and ended ~what I have said that all changed post Christ's resurrection. I'm saying nothing more than that. So, let me ask you this question: Why did the first church meet on the first day of the week? We never read of them saying anything concerning Sabbath day worship for Christians, never. I have already posted scriptures above on this point.
I will make a separate post on the Sabbath day again later. The seventh day could be different for different people, never have I disagree that we should not rest our bodies one of seven days, never. Some folks vocation calls for them to work on Sunday, some on Saturday YOUR CHOICE of day, and we are thankful that they do. But, they should practice resting their bodies a day of the week, be whatever that day be for them, generally it follows five to six days of labor for most.
That has changed by Christ death and resurrection form the dead, more on this later. NOT for you, but for any saint interesting to be more perfect in the truth, which you do not it seems.
Later on this as well, not for you, but for lovers of the truth seeking truth from the scriptures, using God's word to prove our doctrine. I have actually went over these points many times with you to no profit.
Drive safely and be careful out there.Getting ready for work.
Rowan
Active Member
Glad to hear you are doing better.
It looks like you have a strong stance against the eternal sonship of Christ. I myself am totally into it and how it relates to the Trinity.
The doctrine of eternal sonship affirms that the second Person of the triune Godhead has eternally existed as the Son. This doctrine is widely accepted in the Christian church and is supported by these biblical passages:
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.
John 1:14
5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 2:5-11
3 He is without father or mother or genealogy and has neither beginning of days nor end of life but resembling the Son of God he continues a priest forever.
Hebrews 7:3
It is a fundamental aspect of the Christian faith that emphasizes the eternal relationship between the Father and the Son.
@Rowan
Rowan, I see you have two friends backing your, good people I may say, yet we disagree with them ~ While I freely admit the eternal Sonship doctrine is widely held by most folks, godly folks I might add, yet it does not mean that is is correct. The Incarnate Sonship has been defended by godly men as well, yet in the minority for sure. Yet, has not truth always been among the few, not majority? For sure it has. Look and consider in Noah's day, almost none, except for a handful. Look at Sodom and Gomorrah, almost none.
I understand the likeness of Noah and Lot's days has much to do with the way they were living, but, it also affects even religious people on how they live to a much lessor degree, we are affected by folks around us, (even our doctrine on what we believe) even our own children and grandchildren. Not many true sincere fully Spirit filled Christians anymore, the numbers are so few in comparison to the world's population that it much like Noah's and Lot's day, even Lot was wordily to a great degree even though a righteous man. He ended up committing incest with his two daughters, though no fault of his directly, but indirectly he allowed himself to get drunk, he had very little control of his spirit sad to say! Truth is always found with the minority. That's not to say that godly people are not among those who hold to certain unbiblical doctrines for there.
So, shall the Son of man find faith on the earth when he come again? Not very much.
Now to your scriptures proof you provided.
The priesthood of Jesus is a theme of Hebrews ~ no other epistle calls Jesus “priest". The two great elements of the Old Testament were the priesthood and the Law. Paul deals extensively in this book with the sacrificial aspects of salvation.
The resume of Melchisedec shows him with some unique qualifications for priest (7:1-3).
Melchisedec was both King of righteousness and King of Salem (Jerusalem) ~ peace. “King of righteousness” is the interpretation of his Hebrew name: Malkiy-Tsedeq. “King of Salem” was his title as the ruler of Salem, or Jerusalem (Psalms 76:2).
Melchisedec was King and priest, and so is Jesus Christ (1st Timothy 6:15; Hebrews 4:1). Jesus was King of Righteousness (Jeremiah 23:5,65) and also King of Peace (Isaiah 9:6).
God’s revelation does not record a mother, father, family, beginning, or end, though he had one, but purposely not RECORDED, so he could be a type Of Jesus Christ who IS a priest forever. Genealogies were essential to priests under the law of Moses (Nehemiah 7:64).
Jesus Christ in His Person is an eternal high priest from either past or future. Melchisedec, as a dark type, is here presented made like the Son. Compare 8:5.
Now here's the point in my favor for the incarnate Sonship of Jesus Christ: We have a record of who Jesus' father is and WHEN his SONSHIP begun! It is recorded for us in Luke 1. There is no other record of when Jesus' Sonship begun, before Jesus was conceived and born, he was the God of Genesis 1:1, to believe otherwise is not to believe the record that God has given to us. Eternal generation is a heresy that destroys Jesus' Deity as the God of Genesis 1:1. You cannot escape this fact, impossible. Care to explain to me how Jesus was eternally generated? You cannot do it, but you should be able to do so, if you believe this teaching ~ I know why folks cannot, it is because they simply accept what others say without ever seriously consider the ramification of what they are saying by using the scripture as their guide to the path of truth.
I'll come back to finish since it is already too long. Sorry.
Thank you for your kind words.
Rowan, I see you have two friends backing your, good people I may say, yet we disagree with them ~ While I freely admit the eternal Sonship doctrine is widely held by most folks, godly folks I might add, yet it does not mean that is is correct. The Incarnate Sonship has been defended by godly men as well, yet in the minority for sure. Yet, has not truth always been among the few, not majority? For sure it has. Look and consider in Noah's day, almost none, except for a handful. Look at Sodom and Gomorrah, almost none.
Luke 18:8
“I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?”Matthew 24:37
“But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”Luke 17:28
“Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;”I understand the likeness of Noah and Lot's days has much to do with the way they were living, but, it also affects even religious people on how they live to a much lessor degree, we are affected by folks around us, (even our doctrine on what we believe) even our own children and grandchildren. Not many true sincere fully Spirit filled Christians anymore, the numbers are so few in comparison to the world's population that it much like Noah's and Lot's day, even Lot was wordily to a great degree even though a righteous man. He ended up committing incest with his two daughters, though no fault of his directly, but indirectly he allowed himself to get drunk, he had very little control of his spirit sad to say! Truth is always found with the minority. That's not to say that godly people are not among those who hold to certain unbiblical doctrines for there.
So, shall the Son of man find faith on the earth when he come again? Not very much.
Now to your scriptures proof you provided.
Not sure why you use this scripture for it surely falls in my camp, not your, my brother. You are giving me free ammunition to be use against you. Thank you, it makes my work much easier. It is a gift to any lawyer when the other side provides evidence to be used against them.
Hebrews 7:3
“Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.”The priesthood of Jesus is a theme of Hebrews ~ no other epistle calls Jesus “priest". The two great elements of the Old Testament were the priesthood and the Law. Paul deals extensively in this book with the sacrificial aspects of salvation.
The resume of Melchisedec shows him with some unique qualifications for priest (7:1-3).
Melchisedec was both King of righteousness and King of Salem (Jerusalem) ~ peace. “King of righteousness” is the interpretation of his Hebrew name: Malkiy-Tsedeq. “King of Salem” was his title as the ruler of Salem, or Jerusalem (Psalms 76:2).
Melchisedec was King and priest, and so is Jesus Christ (1st Timothy 6:15; Hebrews 4:1). Jesus was King of Righteousness (Jeremiah 23:5,65) and also King of Peace (Isaiah 9:6).
God’s revelation does not record a mother, father, family, beginning, or end, though he had one, but purposely not RECORDED, so he could be a type Of Jesus Christ who IS a priest forever. Genealogies were essential to priests under the law of Moses (Nehemiah 7:64).
Jesus Christ in His Person is an eternal high priest from either past or future. Melchisedec, as a dark type, is here presented made like the Son. Compare 8:5.
Now here's the point in my favor for the incarnate Sonship of Jesus Christ: We have a record of who Jesus' father is and WHEN his SONSHIP begun! It is recorded for us in Luke 1. There is no other record of when Jesus' Sonship begun, before Jesus was conceived and born, he was the God of Genesis 1:1, to believe otherwise is not to believe the record that God has given to us. Eternal generation is a heresy that destroys Jesus' Deity as the God of Genesis 1:1. You cannot escape this fact, impossible. Care to explain to me how Jesus was eternally generated? You cannot do it, but you should be able to do so, if you believe this teaching ~ I know why folks cannot, it is because they simply accept what others say without ever seriously consider the ramification of what they are saying by using the scripture as their guide to the path of truth.
I'll come back to finish since it is already too long. Sorry.
Rowan
Active Member
We are not in a court of law here. Just an old EnterNet chat room. I'm not trying to win my case, I'm only posting what I believe.
I respect your thoughts and ideas about the Bible and will not try to change them. Nor will I change most of mine, but it could happen as I love to study the Bible and learn more.
I respect your thoughts and ideas about the Bible and will not try to change them. Nor will I change most of mine, but it could happen as I love to study the Bible and learn more.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
I know you want to come back to finish with Rowan but What are you saying here....?
You say "before Jesus was conceived and born, he was the God of Genesis 1:1
You are talking in circles again.
We, MOST, all agree that He was in Genesis 1:1 but Jesus was not His name. And MOST agree He was one of the ones in the "Let us make" verse
Do you know the name that has been referred to as being in Gen 1:1 along with God YHWH? That one was called the Word.
AND BEFORE YOU GET ALL HYPER AND SAY WELL WORD IS NOT A NAME.
John tells us in 1:14.... 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (John talks of the Word, not the name Jesus, yet before conception they were instructed to name the baby Jesus..... ) So what is it about this word that became flesh and walked among us?
So you still insist that this Son of God did not become such until Mary gave birth?
Look closely at John 1:15 KJV Look at the wording....
15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
For he was before me????????????????/
Question Is Jesus the Creator? Answer Genesis 1:1 says that "God created the heavens and the earth." Then, Colossians 1:16 gives the added detail that God created "all things" through Jesus Christ. The plain teaching of Scripture, therefore, is that Jesus is the Creator of the universe.(So by the time Colossians was written, after the death of Jesus, it surly was well known by Paul
that it was Jesus, the begotten of the Father who created creation, and all scriptures that I read point to this fact.
Perhaps this will help clarify things for you.. any color changes are mine for emphasis.
Was Jesus the Son of God before his conception with Mary or even before the creation of heaven and earth? Can you further prove that Jesus was created by God?
February 18, 2016The scripture that best explains this is found in Colossians 1:12-18, “Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light…Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”
The following is my comments to the above.....
Slowly now... I'll repeat. Giving thanks unto the Father, This would be God the Father.....
which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light..
Who is the image of the invisible God, ( This would be Jesus)
the firstborn of every creature: (Again, this is Jesus who was the first born of every creature before he created creation.)
Please continue....
The concept of firstborn is of one having a beginning coming from another that was prior to himself but is the first of perhaps many. The same concept is also stated in Revelation 3:14, “And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things says the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.” This says that the very first thing that God did while being alone was to create Jesus.
Another scripture passage that says the same thing is found in Proverbs 8:22-23 (Revised Standard Version), “The LORD created me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old. Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth.” Although this is talking about wisdom, consider 1 Corinthians 1:30, “But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom.” Hence Proverbs 8 is talking about Jesus, who is the wisdom of God in his pre-human experience.
Most translators follow the Latin Vulgate mistranslation for John 1:1 rather than John’s original Greek! John literally tells us that the Word (Jesus before becoming a babe in Bethlehem) was “towards God.” This requires some interpretation.
Hebrews 2:17 provides insight; “Therefore, He (Jesus) had to be made like His brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God….” This Greek phrase “in things pertaining to God” and “with God” are identical! Clearly, their sense is “to be in heart union and desiring to serve.”
