One must confess Christ is YHWH !

civic said:
wrong Kurios is the GREEK translation or equivalent of YHWH in the LXX.
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Listen to what you just said to Matthias again. What you said is what Matthias is implying that is the real problem civic. Now reread and gather what he really was saying.

You see that most by far of the English translators of the NT almost always quoted the Greek LXX rather that from the Hebrew text. And many knew the Hebrew and neglected to use it as their primary source fro translation. That is the problem and caused so much confusion.

You must consider this as a crucial element in your OP when considering any conclusion of your subject.

'They' nearly all used the generic term 'kyrios' How convenient and fortunate for you and for your cause, the Triune god. And I believe this is the only reason why you created this OP in the first place. Through stealth, falsely claim that YHWH is Jesus.

And still you do not know why various NT writers recalled OT verses about YHWH and associated them with his Son, do you?

They raised YHWH when speaking on the subjects of salvation, expressing the Lord of lords, the First and Last...

in Heb 1:6 it quotes Deut 32:43;
in Heb 1:8, 9 it quotes Ps 45:6, 7;
in Heb 1:10-12 it quotes Ps 102:25-27 (LXX);
in Phil 2:10, 11 it quotes Isa 45:23;
in Matt 3:3 (cf V11) quotes Isa 40:3
..and more

And all have the same mind and all knew why they quoted the OT of YHWH with the Christ. They cannot all be wrong. And they never once incredibly meant YHWH was Jesus either.

I'll leave that for you to ponder and research..
 
dizerner said:
I would always consider cognates, variants and different word spacings, rather than just assume the vowels are correct.
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There are 195 occurrences of adoni in the Hebrew Bible. The Masoretes got it right 195 times out of 195 opportunities.

Not that it will likely matter to you, but the Lockman Foundation (publisher of the NASB) confirmed it to me in writing.

dizerner said:
Most textual critics do not consider the vowels as written by the original authors and thus are subject to error and tampering. We have many clear examples of incorrect vowel pointing by the Masoretes and that alone is proof enough they are not inspired.

You will notice the LXX does NOT always agree with the Masoretes.

I posted a verse above as proof.
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Then you would have to say that LXX and MT are both wrong in Psalm 110:1.
 
Matthias said:
It’s very easy to prove that adoni, a non-deity title
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The assertion above is false.

In Judges 6:13 Gideon refers to the Messenger of YHWH as adoni.
Since the Messenger of YHWH is YHWH demonstrates Gideon was referring to YHWH as adoni.

Judges 6:11-23
11 The Messenger of the Lord came and sat under the oak tree in Ophrah that belonged to Joash from Abiezer’s family. Joash’s son Gideon was beating out wheat in a winepress to hide it from the Midianites.
12 The Messenger of the Lord appeared to Gideon and said, “The Lord is with you, brave man.”
13 Gideon responded, “Excuse me, sir! But if the Lord is with us, why has all this happened to us? Where are all the miracles our ancestors have told us about? Didn’t they say, ‘The Lord brought us out of Egypt?’ But now the Lord has abandoned us and has handed us over to Midian.”
14 The Lord turned to him and said, “You will rescue Israel from Midian with the strength you have. I am sending you.”
15 Gideon said to him, “Excuse me, sir! How can I rescue Israel? Look at my whole family. It’s the weakest one in Manasseh. And me? I’m the least important member of my family.”
16 The Lord replied, “I will be with you. You will defeat Midian as if it were only one man.”
17 Gideon said to him, “If you find me acceptable, give me a sign that it is really you speaking to me.
18 Don’t leave until I come back. I want to bring my gift and set it in front of you.”
“I will stay until you come back,” he said.
19 Then Gideon went into his house and prepared a young goat and unleavened bread made with 18 quarts of flour. He put the meat in a basket and the broth in a pot. Then he went out and presented them to the Messenger of the Lord under the oak tree.
20 The Messenger of the Lord told him, “Take the meat and the unleavened bread, put them on this rock, and pour the broth over them.” Gideon did so.
21 Then the Messenger of the Lord touched the meat and the bread with the tip of the staff that was in his hand. Fire flared up from the rock and burned the meat and the bread. Then the Messenger of the Lord disappeared.
22 That’s when Gideon realized that this had been the Messenger of the Lord. So he said, “Lord God! I have seen the Messenger of the Lord face to face.”
23 The Lord said to him, “Calm down! Don’t be afraid. You will not die.” (GW)



Verse 12 - The Messenger of YHWH appears unto Gideon.
Verse 14 - The Messenger is described as the Lord (YHWH) which spoke unto Gideon.
Verse 17, 18 - Gideon asks "Him" (the Messenger of YHWH) not to depart.
Verse 18 - The Messenger of YHWH says He will wait until Gideon returns.
Verse 19 - Gideon brings out the food unto the Messenger of YHWH under the oak tree. This is where the Messenger of YHWH was originally (verse 11).
Verses 20-22 - Describes what the Messenger of YHWH did to Gideons' offer.

Notice also in verse 22 that Gideon realized that the Messenger to whom he referred to as "sir" (adoni) in Judges 6:13 was in fact YHWH! By seeing the Messenger (YHWH) face to face Gideon was in fear that he would die (cf. Exodus 33:20). This is why in the very next verse (23) YHWH assures Gideon that he will not die even though Gideon saw YHWH face to face.
 
civic said:


Joel 2:32
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the Lord has said,
Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.


Once again we see Paul quote another OT passage about YHWH and apply it to Jesus who is the one and only Lord according to the N.T.

Romans 10:9-13
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of C all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

hope this helps !!!
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The name YHWH belongs at Joel, not LORD, That passage quoted both spots in the NT and the name-YHWH belongs at both spots, not Lord.
All can see from that the misleading that occurs because the great apostasy, by satans will, removed Gods name and replaced it with titles.
Reality--Whoever calls on the name-YHWH(Jehovah) will be saved. But the religions in darkness teach to call on the name Jesus because they use altered translations in support of satans will over Gods will. Every trinity scholar on the planet knows Gods name was removed. They will say nothing. Because truth exposes all their religions as false.
 
Keiw1 said:
Matt 24:45= At the proper time.
Click to expand...

Thus negating your claim that "the truth NOW is what counts" because what the JW's have said to be the truth at that moment turned out to be the exact opposite later on.

In fact, you aren't even sure what the truth is now since you have been cowering from answering the question in post 9 in the link above!
Classic.
 
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Fred said:
The assertion above is false.

In Judges 6:13 Gideon refers to the Messenger of YHWH as adoni.
Since the Messenger of YHWH is YHWH demonstrates Gideon was referring to YHWH as adoni.

Judges 6:11-23
11 The Messenger of the Lord came and sat under the oak tree in Ophrah that belonged to Joash from Abiezer’s family. Joash’s son Gideon was beating out wheat in a winepress to hide it from the Midianites.
12 The Messenger of the Lord appeared to Gideon and said, “The Lord is with you, brave man.”
13 Gideon responded, “Excuse me, sir! But if the Lord is with us, why has all this happened to us? Where are all the miracles our ancestors have told us about? Didn’t they say, ‘The Lord brought us out of Egypt?’ But now the Lord has abandoned us and has handed us over to Midian.”
14 The Lord turned to him and said, “You will rescue Israel from Midian with the strength you have. I am sending you.”
15 Gideon said to him, “Excuse me, sir! How can I rescue Israel? Look at my whole family. It’s the weakest one in Manasseh. And me? I’m the least important member of my family.”
16 The Lord replied, “I will be with you. You will defeat Midian as if it were only one man.”
17 Gideon said to him, “If you find me acceptable, give me a sign that it is really you speaking to me.
18 Don’t leave until I come back. I want to bring my gift and set it in front of you.”
“I will stay until you come back,” he said.
19 Then Gideon went into his house and prepared a young goat and unleavened bread made with 18 quarts of flour. He put the meat in a basket and the broth in a pot. Then he went out and presented them to the Messenger of the Lord under the oak tree.
20 The Messenger of the Lord told him, “Take the meat and the unleavened bread, put them on this rock, and pour the broth over them.” Gideon did so.
21 Then the Messenger of the Lord touched the meat and the bread with the tip of the staff that was in his hand. Fire flared up from the rock and burned the meat and the bread. Then the Messenger of the Lord disappeared.
22 That’s when Gideon realized that this had been the Messenger of the Lord. So he said, “Lord God! I have seen the Messenger of the Lord face to face.”
23 The Lord said to him, “Calm down! Don’t be afraid. You will not die.” (GW)



Verse 12 - The Messenger of YHWH appears unto Gideon.
Verse 14 - The Messenger is described as the Lord (YHWH) which spoke unto Gideon.
Verse 17, 18 - Gideon asks "Him" (the Messenger of YHWH) not to depart.
Verse 18 - The Messenger of YHWH says He will wait until Gideon returns.
Verse 19 - Gideon brings out the food unto the Messenger of YHWH under the oak tree. This is where the Messenger of YHWH was originally (verse 11).
Verses 20-22 - Describes what the Messenger of YHWH did to Gideons' offer.

Notice also in verse 22 that Gideon realized that the Messenger to whom he referred to as "sir" (adoni) in Judges 6:13 was in fact YHWH! By seeing the Messenger (YHWH) face to face Gideon was in fear that he would die (cf. Exodus 33:20). This is why in the very next verse (23) YHWH assures Gideon that he will not die even though Gideon saw YHWH face to face.
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Excellent response with the plethora of scriptures used to substantiate your claims are biblical. Notice who is using scripture and who is deflecting.
 
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Fred said:
Thus negating your claim that "the truth NOW is what counts" because what the JW's have said to be the truth at that moment turned out to be the exact opposite later on.

In fact, you aren't even sure what the truth is now since you have been cowering from answering the question in post 9 in the link above!
Classic.
Click to expand...
JW,org--keep up to date or do not deceive with your old light that does not exist anymore. You only use it to try to mislead others=satans will.
 
civic said:


Joel 2:32
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the Lord has said,
Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.


Once again we see Paul quote another OT passage about YHWH and apply it to Jesus who is the one and only Lord according to the N.T.

Romans 10:9-13
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of C all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

hope this helps !!!
Click to expand...
I have challenged many with having them call Jesus, my Lord and my saviour, and they simply cannot!
Why do you suppose that is? Is it bc they do NOT recognize Jesus as God ? Or is it bc they are accursed; even the devil's fear & tremble but do not recognize Jesus as their Lord, rather their father is the father of lies; satan!

Jesus plainly said this,
John 10:25-30
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believed not, because ye are NOT of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.
 

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