One must confess Christ is YHWH !

civic

civic

Well-known member


Joel 2:32
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the Lord has said,
Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.


Once again we see Paul quote another OT passage about YHWH and apply it to Jesus who is the one and only Lord according to the N.T.

Romans 10:9-13
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of C all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

hope this helps !!!
 
“A declaration of Yahweh to my lord, ‘Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.’”

(Psalm 110:1, LEB)

Yahweh is speaking in a prophetic oracle to someone who isn’t Yahweh.

Yahweh is speaking to someone who bears the title, adoni.

Adoni occurs 195 times in the Hebrew Bible. It is always a non-deity title. It is used for men and, occasionally, angels. It is never a title used for Yahweh.

Who is the non-deity whom Yahweh is speaking to?

This verse is the most frequently quoted or alluded to OT passage in the NT.

Yahweh is speaking to the Messiah. Yahweh is speaking to Jesus of Nazareth.
 
Matthias said:
“A declaration of Yahweh to my lord, ‘Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.’”

(Psalm 110:1, LEB)

Yahweh is speaking in a prophetic oracle to someone who isn’t Yahweh.

Yahweh is speaking to someone who bears the title, adoni.

Adoni occurs 195 times in the Hebrew Bible. It is always a non-deity title. It is used for men and, occasionally, angels. It is never a title used for Yahweh.

Who is the non-deity whom Yahweh is speaking to?

This verse is the most frequently quoted or alluded to OT passage in the NT.

Yahweh is speaking to the Messiah. Yahweh is speaking to Jesus of Nazareth.
Click to expand...
Lets stick to the "context of the OP and the 2 passages. The N.T. interprets the OT- Hermenuetics 101.

If you are not able to address the passages in the OP I understand as they disprove unitarianism. So I understand why you diverted the conversation.

hope this helps !!!
 
civic said:
Lets stick to the "context of the OP and the 2 passages. The N.T. interprets the OT- Hermenuetics 101.

If you are not able to address the passages in the OP I understand as they disprove unitarianism. So I understand why you diverted the conversation.

hope this helps !!!
Click to expand...

You don’t understand at all.

And the passages in the OP absolutely do not disprove unitarianism. That’s easy to prove.

There is a branch of unitarianism which holds that Jesus is Yahweh.

So even if you dismiss my branch of unitarianism, you can’t dismiss that branch of unitarianism.

My branch of unitarianism says Jesus is Yahweh, functionally. Their branch of unitarianism says that Jesus is Yahweh, literally.

I didn’t divert the conversation. What I did was to use the most important OT Christological text to address the OP.
 
What we must confess is that Jesus is kurios.

Kurios is a generic Greek title. It can be used for either God or for man and angels. It can be used for the Hebrew title adonai (the title reserved for Yahweh) or for the Hebrew title adoni (the title used for humans and, occasionally, angels).

The Christological control verse is Psalm 110:1. The Messiah is the lord.

What we must confess, then, is not that Jesus is Yahweh. What we must confess is that Jesus is lord.
 
Matthias said:
You don’t understand at all.

And the passages in the OP absolutely do not disprove unitarianism. That’s easy to prove.

There is a branch of unitarianism which holds that Jesus is Yahweh.

So even if you dismiss my branch of unitarianism, you can’t dismiss that branch of unitarianism.

My branch of unitarianism says Jesus is Yahweh, functionally. Their branch of unitarianism says that Jesus is Yahweh, literally.

I didn’t divert the conversation. What I did was to use the most important OT Christological text to address the OP.
Click to expand...
Subjectivity. I can say Isaiah 6 is the most Christological passage in the OT. Or Psalm 22 on a myriad of other passages.
 
Matthias said:
What we must confess is that Jesus is kurios.

Kurios is a generic Greek title. It can be used for either the Hebrew title adonai (the title reserved for Yahweh) or for the Hebrew title adoni (the title used for humans and, occasionally, angels).

The control verse is Psalm 110:1. The Messiah is the lord.

What we must confess, then, is not that Jesus is Yahweh. What we must confess is that Jesus is lord.
Click to expand...
wrong Kurios is the GREEK translation or equivalent of YHWH in the LXX.
 
civic said:
wrong Kurios is the GREEK translation or equivalent of YHWH in the LXX.
Click to expand...

Kurios is the Greek word used in place of the Tetragrammton. What you’ve neglected to tell your readers is that kurios is also the Greek word used to translate the Hebrew word for “lord,“ a title which is used in reference to men and, occasionally, angels.

Critically important for your readers to know is that it is the Hebrew word for “lord” which is used in Psalm 110:1 for the Messiah.

It’s very easy to confirm this in the LXX translation of Psalm 110:1.

You’ve given our readers only part of the story. We must make sure that our readers have the whole story. What I’ve contributed is, as Paul Harvey would say, “the rest of the story.”
 
civic said:
Subjectivity. I can say Isaiah 6 is the most Christological passage in the OT. Or Psalm 22 on a myriad of other passages.
Click to expand...

If Isaiah 6 was the most frequently quoted or alluded to OT text in the NT then you would have a case. The same with Psalm 22 or a myriad of other passages.

Everyone knows, or should know, that Psalm 110:1 is the crown jewel.

God is speaking to the Messiah. Yahweh is speaking to Jesus of Nazareth.
 
Matthias said:
Kurios is the Greek word used in place of the Tetragrammton. What you’ve neglected to tell your readers is that kurios is also the Greek word used to translate the Hebrew word for “lord,“ a title which is used in reference to men and, occasionally, angels.

Critically important for your readers to know is that it is the Hebrew word for “lord” which is used in Psalm 110:1 for the Messiah.

It’s very easy to confirm this in the LXX translation of Psalm 110:1.

You’ve given our readers only part of the story. We must make sure that our readers have the whole story. What I’ve contributed is, as Paul Harvey would say, “the rest of the story.”
Click to expand...
From BDB Hebrew lexicon once again proving you are wrong about Adonai. Just another unitarian strawman I just dismantled.

b. Adonay proper name of God, parallel with Yahweh, substitution for it often by scribal error, & eventually supplanting it. In earlier Isaiah 3:17 + (19 t. seeming to belong here), Amos 7:7,8; Amos 9:1; Ezekiel 18:25,29; Ezekiel 33:17,20; Ezekiel 21:14 (probably ׳אֲדֹנָי י as in usual phrase); Zechariah 9:4; Malachi 1:12,14; Lamentations 1:14 + (14 t.) Psalm 2:4; Psalm 37:13; Psalm 78:65; Psalm 90:17 (? יהוה) Psalm 110:5(Dalman puts most of these below (a); — many cases are doubtful); 1 Kings 3:10,15 (Masoretic אדני for יהוה compare Dalm 2 Kings 7:6; Dalm rightly questions; he reads יהוה). The phrases אֲדֹנָי אֱלֹהַיPsalm 38:16; Psalm 86:12, Adonay my God; אֲדֹנָי הָאֱלֹהִים Daniel 9:3, אֱלֹהֵינוּ ׳אDaniel 9:9,15, הָאֵל ׳א Daniel 9:4 favour taking ׳א Daniel 1:2; Daniel 9:7,8 (יהוה ?) Daniel 9:16; Daniel 9:17; Daniel 9:19; Daniel 9:19; Daniel 9:19 as the divine name.

4 אֲדֹנָי יהוה (a) my Lord Yahweh (see יהוה) Genesis 15:2,8 (JE) Joshua 7:7 (J, ᵐ5 omit ׳י) Deuteronomy 3:24; Deuteronomy 9:26; Judges 6:22; Judges 16:28; 2 Samuel 7:1 (6 t.) 1 Kings 2:26; 1 Kings 8:53; probably Amos 3:7,8; Amos 7:2,4,5; Amos 9:8; Jeremiah 1:6; Jeremiah 4:10; Jeremiah 14:13; Jeremiah 32:17,25; Ezekiel 4:14; Ezekiel 8:1; Ezekiel 9:6; Ezekiel 11:13; Ezekiel 20:49; Ezekiel 37:3 (׳יָדַע כִּי אֲני א ׳י) Ezekiel 13:9; Ezekiel 23:49; Ezekiel 24:24; Ezekiel 28:24; Ezekiel 29:16inappropriate in mouth of God; strike out אֲדֹנָי (Co) or read אֱלֹהֵיכֶם ׳י (Dalm); Micah 1:2; Zephaniah 1:7; Obadiah 1; Zechariah 9:14; Psalm 71:5; Psalm 71:16; Psalm 73:28; (b) apparently proper name Adonay Yahweh Isaiah 25:8; Jeremiah 44:26; exile Isaiah 40:10 + (10 t., but Isaiah 61:1,11 read יהוה, ᵐ5); (c) uncertain whether (a) or (b) in prophetic formula אָמַר ׳י ׳א Isaiah 7:7; Isaiah 28:16; Isaiah 30:15; Isaiah 49:22; Isaiah 51:4; Isaiah 65:13; Jeremiah 7:20; Amos 1:8; Amos 3:11; Amos 5:3; Amos 7:6; Obadiah 1; Ezekiel (131 t.); ׳י ׳נְאֻם אIsaiah 56:8; Jeremiah 2:22; Amos 3:13; Amos 4:5; Amos 8:3,9,11; Ezekiel (80 t.); ׳י ׳דְּבַראֿ Ezekiel 6:3; Ezekiel 25:3; Ezekiel 36:4; ׳י ׳נִשְׁבַּע א Amos 4:2; Amos 6:8; ׳י׳כֹּה הִרְאַנִי א Amos 7:1,4; Amos 8:1.

5 יהוה אֲדֹנָי Yahweh my Lord Psalm 68:21; Psalm 109:21; Psalm 140:8; Psalm 141:8; Habakkuk 3:9.

6 אֲדֹנָי יהוה צְבָאוֺת (a) my Lord Yahweh ‚.(see צבאות) Psalm 69:7; Amos 9:5; Isaiah 10:23; Isaiah 22:5,12; Isaiah 28:22compare ׳אֱלֹהֵי הַצְבָאוֺת א ׳י, Yahweh, the God of Hosts my Lord Amos 5:16; (b) a divine name, Adonay, Yahweh ‚. Jeremiah 46:10 (twice in verse); Jeremiah 50:25; (c) uncertain are ׳צ ׳י ׳כֹּה אָמַר א Isaiah 10:24; Isaiah 22:14,15; ׳נְאֻם א ׳צ ׳י Isaiah 3:15; Jeremiah 2:19; Jeremiah 49:5; Jeremiah 50:31.
 
This is getting way to easy for me. Maybe you guys can recruit someone like tuggy or BeDuhn I can debate who will stick with a passage and discuss it with me without diverting. Jason was on an old forum I was a part of years ago where I had Dr Bowman interact with him. Those were the good old days. :)
 
civic said:
From BDB Hebrew lexicon once again proving you are wrong about Adonai. Just another unitarian strawman I just dismantled.

b. Adonay proper name of God, parallel with Yahweh, substitution for it often by scribal error, & eventually supplanting it. In earlier Isaiah 3:17 + (19 t. seeming to belong here), Amos 7:7,8; Amos 9:1; Ezekiel 18:25,29; Ezekiel 33:17,20; Ezekiel 21:14 (probably ׳אֲדֹנָי י as in usual phrase); Zechariah 9:4; Malachi 1:12,14; Lamentations 1:14 + (14 t.) Psalm 2:4; Psalm 37:13; Psalm 78:65; Psalm 90:17 (? יהוה) Psalm 110:5(Dalman puts most of these below (a); — many cases are doubtful); 1 Kings 3:10,15 (Masoretic אדני for יהוה compare Dalm 2 Kings 7:6; Dalm rightly questions; he reads יהוה). The phrases אֲדֹנָי אֱלֹהַיPsalm 38:16; Psalm 86:12, Adonay my God; אֲדֹנָי הָאֱלֹהִים Daniel 9:3, אֱלֹהֵינוּ ׳אDaniel 9:9,15, הָאֵל ׳א Daniel 9:4 favour taking ׳א Daniel 1:2; Daniel 9:7,8 (יהוה ?) Daniel 9:16; Daniel 9:17; Daniel 9:19; Daniel 9:19; Daniel 9:19 as the divine name.

4 אֲדֹנָי יהוה (a) my Lord Yahweh (see יהוה) Genesis 15:2,8 (JE) Joshua 7:7 (J, ᵐ5 omit ׳י) Deuteronomy 3:24; Deuteronomy 9:26; Judges 6:22; Judges 16:28; 2 Samuel 7:1 (6 t.) 1 Kings 2:26; 1 Kings 8:53; probably Amos 3:7,8; Amos 7:2,4,5; Amos 9:8; Jeremiah 1:6; Jeremiah 4:10; Jeremiah 14:13; Jeremiah 32:17,25; Ezekiel 4:14; Ezekiel 8:1; Ezekiel 9:6; Ezekiel 11:13; Ezekiel 20:49; Ezekiel 37:3 (׳יָדַע כִּי אֲני א ׳י) Ezekiel 13:9; Ezekiel 23:49; Ezekiel 24:24; Ezekiel 28:24; Ezekiel 29:16inappropriate in mouth of God; strike out אֲדֹנָי (Co) or read אֱלֹהֵיכֶם ׳י (Dalm); Micah 1:2; Zephaniah 1:7; Obadiah 1; Zechariah 9:14; Psalm 71:5; Psalm 71:16; Psalm 73:28; (b) apparently proper name Adonay Yahweh Isaiah 25:8; Jeremiah 44:26; exile Isaiah 40:10 + (10 t., but Isaiah 61:1,11 read יהוה, ᵐ5); (c) uncertain whether (a) or (b) in prophetic formula אָמַר ׳י ׳א Isaiah 7:7; Isaiah 28:16; Isaiah 30:15; Isaiah 49:22; Isaiah 51:4; Isaiah 65:13; Jeremiah 7:20; Amos 1:8; Amos 3:11; Amos 5:3; Amos 7:6; Obadiah 1; Ezekiel (131 t.); ׳י ׳נְאֻם אIsaiah 56:8; Jeremiah 2:22; Amos 3:13; Amos 4:5; Amos 8:3,9,11; Ezekiel (80 t.); ׳י ׳דְּבַראֿ Ezekiel 6:3; Ezekiel 25:3; Ezekiel 36:4; ׳י ׳נִשְׁבַּע א Amos 4:2; Amos 6:8; ׳י׳כֹּה הִרְאַנִי א Amos 7:1,4; Amos 8:1.

5 יהוה אֲדֹנָי Yahweh my Lord Psalm 68:21; Psalm 109:21; Psalm 140:8; Psalm 141:8; Habakkuk 3:9.

6 אֲדֹנָי יהוה צְבָאוֺת (a) my Lord Yahweh ‚.(see צבאות) Psalm 69:7; Amos 9:5; Isaiah 10:23; Isaiah 22:5,12; Isaiah 28:22compare ׳אֱלֹהֵי הַצְבָאוֺת א ׳י, Yahweh, the God of Hosts my Lord Amos 5:16; (b) a divine name, Adonay, Yahweh ‚. Jeremiah 46:10 (twice in verse); Jeremiah 50:25; (c) uncertain are ׳צ ׳י ׳כֹּה אָמַר א Isaiah 10:24; Isaiah 22:14,15; ׳נְאֻם א ׳צ ׳י Isaiah 3:15; Jeremiah 2:19; Jeremiah 49:5; Jeremiah 50:31.
Click to expand...

The Hebrew word in Psalm 110;1 is adoni, not adonai. If you can read Hebrew, you can confirm this for yourself. If you can’t read Hebrew, you can find someone who dies to confirm it for you.

The Hebrew word adoni occurs 195 times in the OT, including Psalm 110:1.

An exercise I did in the classroom was to have students, working in groups, look up all 195 occurrences. Each group would then report to the class what they found with the verses that were assigned to them.

I will provide the list of all 195 verses. If you would prefer that I not put the list in this thread then I can start a new thread for it.
 
civic said:
This is getting way to easy for me. Maybe you guys can recruit someone like tuggy I can debate who will stick with a passage and discuss it with me without diverting
Click to expand...

Your mind is closed.

It’s very easy to prove that adoni, a non-deity title, is the title used for the Messiah in Psalm 110:1.
 
civic said:
No the Hebrew lexicon disproves your bias.
Click to expand...

Did you not notice that the Lexicon entry you provided didn’t include Psalm 110:1?

The Hebrew word in Psalm 110:1 isn’t adonai; it’s adoni. You can prove it for yourself or you can continue providing incorrect information to your readers.

I don’t think you’re intentionally misleading your readers. I think you genuinely don’t know that the Hebrew word is adoni.
 

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