praise_yeshua
Active Member
So I'll ask again. Do motives matter relative to compliance with what God has said?
You know it does, but you're trying to avoid the ramifications of such in your theology of choice.
Need a reason to believe Calvinists are who they claim to be?
- Thread starter Titus
- Start date
So I'll ask again. Do motives matter relative to compliance with what God has said?
You know it does, but you're trying to avoid the ramifications of such in your theology of choice.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Nonsense. The context of "agapao" as you're detailing is overstated.
This life is a trial of our faith of what "sort it is". Does it come from a place of love or a place of ego and pride. A place of self centeredness lacking any context of empathy. Very few people in this world will actually harm themselves to do others service. Very few.
2Co 11:8 I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Last edited:
civic
Active Member
Precious stones , gold and silver vs wood , hay and stubble. We will all find out at the Bema.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
You're not the judge of anyone. We hoe the ground. We plant the seeds. We dig around the bush. Then we wait.
Then why don't you understand it? You're a natural man. You can't even know God without learning a language like English whereby to discern what is written or spoken. Language is natural. Thusly, you MUST use natural things to discern Spiritual things.
You don't understand what you read. Because it is "spiritually discerned".... I can make that argument right back to you. It is nothing more than a hallow empty argument that is indiscriminate applied to only those you disagree with.
You were once born only of the flesh. You are still very much in the flesh.
Your sorry flesh rejected the Gospel. However, it imparted knowledge to you that you didn't otherwise have. The Gospel is innately holy and from God Himself. It is Truth beyond question. However, you must literally hear and discern that message via natural means "ears" and "language" to understand. You must know English to understand the very message of God.
Even such is required of those who have the Spirit of God. You need such even NOW. If I were to speak to you to in another language you don't know, you couldn't receive what I spoke to you at all.
Apply such to "spiritual understanding".
1Co 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
1Co 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
1Co 14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
1Co 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
This "game" you're play relative to discernment is full of deception and is extraordinarily shameful.
You're just like every other brother you have in Adam in this life. You are your brother's keeper.
My brother, in your new man you do have a spiritual mind and nature that cannot sin, but loves God perfectly through Christ, by being created after his image. But, we still have the old man Adam keeping us from doing the will of God as we desire to do.
Jim, I know this seems to be a paradox.. because it is indeed.
1st John 1:8
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”1st John 3:9
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”praise_yeshua
Active Member
Precious stones , gold and silver vs wood , hay and stubble. We will all find out at the Bema.
I agree, but knowing that motives are the core of why we do the things we do and their relative success in pleasing God, should flavor our theology. We can't just pretend that "one two three".... "follow me"... actually works.
Most often, it doesn't. It produces the pretense of righteousness when none actually exists. Paul even mentioned "false brethren". He also explicitly call out the potential "dead faith" of those at Galatia.
Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
Gal 4:20 I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.
It wasn't because they weren't "living for God".... it was because of what they believed and how it was contrary to understanding the very essence of the Gospel.
Last edited:
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Nonsense. Stick around.
That is a reference relative to a reckoning.
Paul clearly referenced those that are saved in Corinth as being carnal. Fleshly.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
Notice milk for babies. You're not rightly handling the Scriptures. You prefer to be seen as "chosen" over being recognized along with common men. Such are our own ways that still stand in opposition to God.
Paul also referenced how flesh wars against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Your claims are your own. Not the message of the Gospel that came from God.
Titus
Active Member
Did I ever teach we know who is saved or lost at any moment by their actions?
No, I did not. I have taught that to be saved one will show it by fruits of the Spirit and good works that flow from the change of heart.
That is evidence to the world that, those who produce fruits of the Spirit are diferent from the world. That is the identifier to the world of who the elect is.
I never taught that others could know with infallibility at any given time of who is saved.
I believe the elect can fall away.
But others can have indications of who the people of God are from the children of satan.
I know my mother is saved.
I know it by her thoughts and actions, lifestyle.
Thoughts express themselves in external actions.
Can I know with 100% assurity my mother will be in heaven?
No, but all her actions, external emotions, words, lifestyle is the evidence to me that she will be in heaven. Her fruits of the Spirit is her evidence to the world.
Can I say confidently my mother is elect. Yes I can!!!
If not Jim then we can't trust anyone is a born again christian by your belief that nothing we do gives any evidence of who Gods people are.
Question,
If someone has no fruits of the Spirit, lives a totally depraved life.
Is known by everyone to be a reprobate.
Can it be known from his external actions, his choice of lifestyle if he's a new testament Christian? A follower of Jesus?
If someone lives a godly life produces fruit of the Spirit. Everyone that knows him knows he is a God fearing loving man.
Teaches others the true gospel about Jesus.
Goes to church every Sunday
Helps the poor, disadvantaged in his community.
Stood up to the homosexuals, to stop their agenda in the local schools.
Loves his enemies, openly does not seek revenge when he is wronged.
etc.
Jim the world does see Gods people by their actions, heart(expressed by choice of words)
You can deny this all you want but you are speaking against Jesus and the apostles.
The Bible refutes you,
John 15:18-19,
- if the world hate you ye know that it hated Me before it hated you
- if ye were of the world the world would love His own, but because ye are not of the world but I have chosen you out of the world therefore the world hateth you
1John 3:13,
- marvel not my brethren if the world hates you
Matthew 10:22,
- and ye shall be hated of all men for My names sake but he that endureth to the end shall be saved
2 Timothy 3:12,
- yea and ALL that live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution
John 17:14,
- I have given them thy word and the world hath hated them because they are not of the world even as I am not of the world
Luke 6:22,
- blessed are ye, when men shall hate you and when they shall seperate you from their company and shall reproach you and cast out your name as evil for the Son of mans sake
Do our external actions give any indication to the world that we are new testament Christians?
Or are you correct, that nothing people do has any indication to others to whom is Gods people?
Is what you are teaching what Jesus taught?
John 13:34-35,
- a new commandment I give unto you, that you love one another as I have loved you, that ye also love one another
- by this shall ALL MEN KNOW that ye are My disciples if ye have love one to another
Matthew 7:16-20,
- ye shall know them by their fruits...
- wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them
Jesus taught by the fruits of the Spirit Gods people will be known.
Anyone who teaches this is not true is speaking against Jesus.
Matthew 22:29
Last edited:
Titus
Active Member
1 John 5:13,
- I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life
We can know who is elect by the gospel(what is written).
But we cannot know if someone is hiding an unrepentant sin at some time.
This does not mean we cannot know that when that person believed and obeyed the gospel that they did not get saved/elected.
We can know.
Just as I know my mother is elect.
It's up to every individual to live faithfully to receive eternal life, Revelation 2:10.
- I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life
We can know who is elect by the gospel(what is written).
But we cannot know if someone is hiding an unrepentant sin at some time.
This does not mean we cannot know that when that person believed and obeyed the gospel that they did not get saved/elected.
We can know.
Just as I know my mother is elect.
It's up to every individual to live faithfully to receive eternal life, Revelation 2:10.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Nonsense claim. Notice the "YOU" singular and NOT the "WE".
YOU were not included in this knowledge. Only the individual can know and even then it can be "murky" given circumstances.
No you can't in every circumstance. You're being dishonest. Men confess to God. Not one another.
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
You can confess all you want to men and not God. Pharisee did it all the time.
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
You fall in this category for demanding that men confess to YOU.
No you don't.
When Paul spoke of his own son after the faith in Timothy, he simply used the word "persuaded".
The same is used in both
2Ti 1:5 When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also.
Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
As I've told you before, Paul even spoke of how Timothy and every man hasn't purged themselves completely of sins.
2Ti 2:20 Now in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also of wood and clay, some for honorable use, some for dishonorable.
This theology you have is extraordinarily weak. Even to the point I'm not certain you actually understand salvation to the point of being actually able to embrace God's work for you properly. I fear more for Arminians than most anyone else.
I told my wife last night that the only Arminian that is ever pleased with the works they do for God is the one talking at any given time. It really is borderline delusional at times to pretend "I'm serving" when you actually know just how inadequate you are pleasing God yourself. It is essential that we know ourselves and we can't know ourselves properly without knowing God. Yet, that is exactly what we try to do. We search the Scriptures with "rose colored glasses" relative to our own works and then immediately take them off when talking about others.
This is why I often say that have a very low threshold for accepting people into the beloved. I just don't know.
1Co 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
1Co 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
1Co 4:4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
1Co 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
I've defended myself against your false accusations of me. However, it is a small thing that you judge me. It isn't up to you whether I'm God's or not.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Your theology has been thoroughly debunked. It isn't worth having. Change or not. It is up to you.
Titus
Active Member
Fine.
if I follow your error,,then I have zero reason to believe you or anyone else is saved.
You all are servants of satan until we all find out who Gods children are on judgment day.
Matthew 22:29
Titus
Active Member
Proverbs 26:4-5
Titus
Active Member
You spoke the truth here.
Titus
Active Member
Praise Yeshua says you cannot know Gods people,
Jesus teaches we can know His children by their fruits.
You say we cant really know who Gods people are.
I'll take Jesus' teaching over yours.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
You go from one extreme to another. I generally treat Unitarians as outside of the fellowship of God. There understanding of God is compromised.
As long as someone shows affection toward Jesus Christ, I'm good with them. For example, Eric Weinstein has an extraordinary mind. He says things that make me think he's has spent time with God. Yet, he openly hedges on his faith. He generally classifies himself as an atheist but I seriously wonder. I don't believe a man can talk the way he talks about God and not know God. He either knows God or he is extreme danger being as culpable as he is.
Ultimately, I don't know for certain for Eric nor most anyone else for that matter.
Our fellowship is in Jesus Christ.
1Co 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
Tell me what you believe about Jesus and I'll have more to say. Up till this point, I think all I've heard about is you.
Jesus Christ is the love my life. I meet as a 16 year old boy though I was taught about Him before. I meet Him that day. It is the single greatest event of my entire life. I've never been the same even though I've certainly done the same things. I think of Him constantly. I've labored to know Him more.
Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Yet, I could have done more. I could have done better. I still question if I'm doing enough but I've learned that I don't have to be an Abraham. I just have to be faithful to where I fit into the Body of Christ.
People need to stop trying to be kings to "rule" with Christ. Just be faithful to the leading of the Spirit of God. If you be led of the Spirit of God, then you are the sons of God. I don't need you to judge this FOR ME. I do it myself. After all, you're not going to stand for me when I face God. What you say about it has nothing to do with whether I please God or not.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Keep going. We can deal with this.
I appealed to John earlier in our conversation. Do you remember?
Here is what John said....
1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Here. I'll do it again for YOU....
Jesus Christ is my Lord and Redeemer. My Savior. He came in the flesh to Atone for me. He is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
Now. Tell me AGAIN, why I'm not saved when I meet the requirement of what John declared?
That is the FRUIT of my LIPS....
Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
You might not know what "fruit" actually is that God loves to "taste". After all, you're not the one accepting the fruit. You're not the Taster.
Titus
Active Member
By your absurd interpretation of John's teaching.
The you is those who John is writing to in 123John.
You say I'm not included in this writing.
Then you are teaching 123 John does not apply to me.
I'm done listening to your deluded ramblings.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
I said.... that you're not included in knowing who is or isn't relative to what John said when he appealing to.....
1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Now, John told you that the Spirit of God can be discerned by
1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Yet, you reject me after I've confessed Christ multiple times now.
I don't think you actually believe what John wrote.
Titus
Active Member
Type all you want. Im not reading your posts. I'm done giving you my attention.
Proverbs 14:7,
- leave the presence of a fool, for you will not find knowledge or hear godly wisdom from his lips
Similar threads
