Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
Your dodging.
I never said Jesus does the work of believing.
He who believes is no longer condemned.
He who does not believe remains condemned.
no work involved
Need a reason to believe Calvinists are who they claim to be?
- Thread starter Titus
- Start date
I never said Jesus does the work of believing.
He who believes is no longer condemned.
He who does not believe remains condemned.
no work involved
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
then I would ask. Does God need evidence?
Titus
Active Member
Thanks, so God does the believing for us according to your interpretation.
Does God do the repenting for us?
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
Faith is the work of God
it does not merit salvation.
its ridiculous to say my faith in someone else to save me because I was totally unable to save myself is a work of merit or me saving myself.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
No I never said this
why are yuo so dishonest when discussing things with people?
Did I say God did the repenting?
WHo caused you to change your mind
Yourself. or the work of God?
Titus
Active Member
I was asking Red Baker for evidence of his election.Gods given a mountain of evidence.
You misunderstood.
Titus
Active Member
Quote me accusing you of teaching God does the repenting?
Do you not understand I asked this as a question ?
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
no.
Because it still fits.
If you asked him what evidence. I would ask. Does God need evidence.
I do not have to show you any evidence.. You have no bearing on my salvation
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
I understand you were digging.
Because you know I did not say this (it appears we have been here before)
do you believe works are required to be saved (not just faith and repenting, which is Gods work. He gets credit for you doing those things. You can not take any credit (not of works lest you boast)
here paul makes clear in eph 2 and rom 4 that faith and works are seperate.. faith is not a work.. one can not boast in being saved because they trusted in someone else to do ALL the work
Titus
Active Member
It's not dishonesty.
It's your responses are sometimes poorly expressed, so I have difficulty understanding your beliefs.
I asked you if God does the work of faith in Christ or does man do the believing.
Heres your response,
Please clarify what you mean?
I dont know what you are trying to say here?
Titus
Active Member
You can think what you want.
Titus
Active Member
Sorry.
I dont know if you are inferring God does all the believing in Christ for us or we do the believing.
To try and better understand your position is why I asked if God does the work of repentance for us?
I'll tell you plainly that God puts faith in us by evidence of His death, burial and ressurection.
He absolutely was raised from the dead by the Holy Spirit.
So God gives us the evidence to believe.
So it's a work of God i.e. Miracles, ressurection.
Gods work(evidence revealed) results in our ability to believe(we work the work of God)
John 6:28-29,
- then said they unto Jesus what shall we do that we might work the works of God
- Jesus answered and said unto them, this is the work of God that ye believe on Him whom He sent
Calvinist and faith onlyist like yourself trying to get around this by claiming it's not our work.
Man plays no part.
Only God works faith in us miraculously.
Hence, no work of faith by man only a work of faith by God.
This is a vain attempt to get all works that we do out of salvation.
All commandments of God are worked by Man.
God does not work His commandments for us.
He commands us to do them.
Belief in Jesus is a commandment therefore we do this work of faith,
1John 3:23-24,
- and this is His commandment that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another as He gave us commandment
The work of faith cannot be defined as merit. God wont allow it.
Biblically it is a work of faith not merit.
1Thessalonians 1:3,
- remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father
civic
Active Member
he is 100 % a 5 point Calvinist who says tulip, the doctrines of grace is the gospel.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Got to love the "commandeering" of "doctrines of grace" from them....
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
Actually I was quite clear. But thats ok..
God does the work.. you would never have anything to even remotely have faith in if God did not do the work.
God did the work of teaching
He did the work of the cross
he did the work of atonement
He did the work of conviction and leading
what work did you do to bring yourself to faith?
I just did for a second time a different way does this help?
if your in the ocean, totally unable to save yourself. You will certainly die if someone does nto come and rescue you
And someone is sent to do just that. But asks you to trust them, and they will save you.
and you sit there and do absolutely nothing, while they rescue you. because you trust them
what credit can you take for saving yourself?
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
You can help me
do you believe one has to do works that produce fruit to be saved?
You have yet to answer.. why is this?
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
dude, you are hitting my last nerve.
I have answered this multiple times and multiple ways.
stop looking for something that is not there. and just listen to what I say
It is THE WORK OF GOD. (what is?) THAT I BELIEVE IN THE ONE HE SENT.
who is doing the believeing according to that verse? Me or God?
Who is doing the work that leads me to faith? Me or God
Who gets credit for me trusting God. me or God
again, your reading from a doctrinal view. and not what is said.
I did not say it is not my faith. But you only see what you want to see.
I also think you just answered my question by faith alone issue. so you DO preach a merit based salvation. thank you.
so what works do I need to do to assure I am saved?
No.
There is no works in salvation. Unless it is merit based
I work because I am saved, Not to keep myself saved,
I am saved by grace through faith not works.
If it is grace it is no longer or works otherwise grace is no longer grace.
But as many as have recieved him.
If your trying to add works. well read gal 3. what did Paul call those who try to perfect their salvation in the flesh (works)
Are you perfect. if not. You have failed to do as required..
Again, Your trying to judge me based on a doctrinal view you hold. and are in effect not hearing a word I say.
if your going to continue to do this. we have nothing further to say. because you are unable to hear. anything I say and I am not going to waste my time to try to explain the same thing over and over multiple times knowing you still will not understand
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
I know he is. He just deny's it when you call him out. I actually have him on ignore in multiple threads. because I am sick of his holier than though I know it all and you know nothing attitude.
Titus
Active Member
Then you believe on Jesus. Correct it is a work of faith that you do.
Jesus taught faith is a work of God that we work. That's Jesus' doctrine,
Galatians 6:2,
- bear ye one another's burdens and so fullfil the law of Christ
We are to judge based on Jesus' gospel,
John 7:24,
- do not judge according to appearance, but judge righteous judgement
Not my intention. I'd rather be best friends that worked together in Gods kingdom,
Ephesians 4:13,
- till we all come to the unity of the faith(gospel) and of knowledge of the Son of God to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ
I need more information to really understand what you mean by this?
Jesus died for us because He knows we are imperfect.
Obeying God is never defined in the Scriptures as perfectly sinless man.
Yet Jesus does teach it is possible for man to obey all His commandments,
Matthew 28:20,
- teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you and lo I am with you always even to the end of the age
I don't believe like for example Charismaticlady's theology of being perfectly sinless.
She claims she never sins.
I dont believe that's possible but I do believe a mature Christian like Paul rarely would sin.
You are one of the members on here that I have difficulty with understanding your responses.
It's not intentional.
I would much rather be civil than just ad hominem one another.
But, also you already know, no one forced you to start a conversation with me on my article.
If I upset you. Then avoid my posts.
I've been talking with you for years.
You haven't budged in inch.
I've not been persuaded by anything you have shared with me.
Probably just a waste of time. But I will pray for you.
Ephesians 5:16,
- redeeming the time because the days are evil
Context flesh, is Jews Old law, Old covenant of Moses.
So I agree with Paul.
You must know there are different kinds of works in the new testament.
Lumping them all together is poor hermeneutics.
Any way, I love everyone on here.
I only do this because I love others.
@Titus
Faith is the evidence of the new birth, not the condition thereof.
1st John 5:1
“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.”
The truth of the true gospel of Jesus Christ as preached by Paul and the apostles is that legally it is the faith and obedience of Jesus Christ that free justifies us before the law of God, Our faith comes from the new man within each and every child of God, which faith believes God's word and does not waver, only our flesh hinders us from fully trusting God. Again, it is the faith and obedience of Christ alone that legally justifies us. Galatians 2:16; Phil 3:9; Romans 3:22-25; 5:19; etc.
Faith, or any other spiritual fruit does not exist in our old man, impossible!
Enough for tonight..
Emphasis are mine for discussion. I never said that. You are not following me very well. I clearly said:
Titus, first of all, you are asking a question to someone who does not believe or teach that our faith has any part one being born of God, faith is the evidence of the new birth, not the condition thereof. Faith is a work of the law, thereby becomes one of the greatest works of the law.
Matthew 23:23
“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.”1st John 3:23
“And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment."Faith is the evidence of the new birth, not the condition thereof.
1st John 5:1
“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.”
The truth of the true gospel of Jesus Christ as preached by Paul and the apostles is that legally it is the faith and obedience of Jesus Christ that free justifies us before the law of God, Our faith comes from the new man within each and every child of God, which faith believes God's word and does not waver, only our flesh hinders us from fully trusting God. Again, it is the faith and obedience of Christ alone that legally justifies us. Galatians 2:16; Phil 3:9; Romans 3:22-25; 5:19; etc.
I do indeed. Even faith, which proves that the Spirit must first be in us before we can have have!
Galatians 5:22
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,”Faith, or any other spiritual fruit does not exist in our old man, impossible!
Romans 7:18
“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.”Enough for tonight..
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