I Never Knew You

[jeremiah1five]

For the sake of those who might be trying to follow the theme of the original post, we don't need to go off on a rabbit trail as to the spiritual world, which is another subject entirely and worthy of its own post.

On target - the theme is identifying just who Christ was speaking to when He said "I never knew you". You claim He was speaking of Gentiles. The Scriptures contradict you in this. The context of this account was dealing with those Jews who had eaten and drunk in Christ's presence, and had seen Him teach in their own streets (Luke 13:26). This was first-century Jewish citizens, to whom Christ then would respond "I never knew you" (Matt. 7:23), or "I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity." (Luke 13:26-27).

Keep it simple.

There is an obvious contradiction in believing those Jesus says, "I never knew you" are Jews and it is this:

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:34.

The whole purpose for Jesus appearing the first time is to deliver and redeem all Israel from sin and death and give them all eternal life. Jeremiah was sent to the southern kingdom (Judah and Benjamin) and although this prophecy of a New Covenant was given to all Israel. The tendency of many members here when they come across seeming contradictions in Scripture is to choose the idea or theology that best fits their pet theories. I hope you are not like that.

The Mosaic Covenant God gave to Israel provided the means of yearly righting their relationship with God through the Ceremonial Laws, specifically through substitutionary sacrifice. This method of worship and atonement has been the one constant in God's relationship with a people on the earth who were to become the children of Israel (Jacob.)
Everything recorded in Scripture pointed to this end even from the Garden when God slay and animal in front of Adam and the woman and provided coats of skin for them. Although short in information, the act itself performed by God in the Garden speaks volumes towards teaching our first parents the method through which God would later expand on in the Mosaic Covenant Ceremonial Laws how His overall plan of redeeming a people He first deemed the day they were created would play out. This is done through substitutionary sacrifice of an animal that would become the meme through which God would save a people contemplated as holy, created sinful, and restored to holiness the moment of their physical death on earth.

As rabbi and Pharisee, Saul spent fourteen to seventeen years searching Scripture to unlock the truth of the New Covenant era Israel found herself in with the advent of the Holy Spirit of Promise manifesting Himself to God's covenant people after Jesus ascended. Saul knew that the two prior covenants (Abrahamic and Mosaic) were given to Israel only, as did every Hebrew adult including youth of the age of accountability. The Mosaic Covenant lends itself to the New Covenant in providing the mechanism required by God to establish the New Covenant in Jesus' blood that would be the basis of Israel's deliverance from sin and death. Jeremiah's prophecy does not include the mechanism of atonement, it only presumes there was a mechanism otherwise God could not "forgive Israel and remember their sin no more." It would be a major hurdle and an outright contradiction for Jeremiah to say Israel is forgiven, and through forgiveness restored to God, and then Jesus to nullify that prophecy given through the Holy Spirit in the words "I never knew you and depart from me."

Jesus is addressing one of two locations the Jews will occupy at the end of Human history. The Promised Land on earth, and the kingdom of heaven above earth. And Jesus must be understood while having Israel's total redemption in hand as expressed by Jeremiah. Jesus' harsh words would seem to indicate Israel has not been forgiven as stated by Jeremiah, but Jeremiah came first and Jesus' words must be interpreted considering Jeremiah's prophecy. I admit Jesus' words are difficult, but we cannot discount the reason for Jesus' death and whether His death accomplished the atonement spoken by Jeremiah and others (Moses, David, Ezekiel, Joel, etc.)

I say again, God had atoned Israel and forgiven her sins through Jesus' cross at Calvary. What's happening in Matthew Jesus' words from the cross, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do" was a prayer the Father granted. Israel is atoned. "It is Finished!" Do you agree?

 

[3 Resurrections]

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:34.

This Jeremiah 31:34 prediction was for the conditions in the post-exilic return for the Israelites under Ezra, Nehemiah, Joshua, and Zerubbabel. Ezra was that "ready scribe" (Ezra 7:6) who prepared his heart to seek the law of the Lord, and to do it, and to teach in Israel statutes and judgments (Ezra 7:10). Ezra was directed by Artaxerxes I in Ezra 7:25-26 to "set magistrates and judges, which may judge all the people that are beyond the river, all such as know the laws of thy God: and teach ye them that know them not..."

God caused a revival in the hearts of all the Israelite people who participated in the post-exilic return, as described in Haggai 1:14.
Also, Nehemiah described the oath that all the returned Israelites made - their wives, their sons, and their daughters, every one who had knowledge and understanding - to walk in God's law (Nehemiah 10:28-29). You are mistakenly yanking this Jeremiah 31:34 text from its proper setting for the post-exilic return which Jeremiah was predicting.

But by the time Christ's generation arrived, "He came unto His own, and His own received Him not." (John 1:11). Isaiah had predicted that, though the Israelites should be as the sand of the sea, yet only a remnant would be saved. (Rom. 9:27). Paul spoke of this Israelite remnant, present in his own days - "even so at this present time also there remaineth a remnant according to the election of grace." (Romans 11:5). The majority of the Israelites in those first-century days were blinded in not recognizing their own predicted Messiah.

God has always allowed the Gentile sojourners among the ethnic members of the tribes of Israel to have a shared inheritance among them, as long as they obeyed the same laws and participated in worship of Himself as the one true God (Numbers 15:14-16 and Ezekiel 47:22). This was intended to be an OT foreshadowing of the revealed "mystery" of God having included ALL nations among the children of faith along with faithful Abraham - regardless of ethnic background.

"Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants and handmaids, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL people." (Isaiah 56:6-7)

 

[jeremiah1five]

This Jeremiah 31:34 prediction was for the conditions in the post-exilic return for the Israelites under Ezra, Nehemiah, Joshua, and Zerubbabel. Ezra was that "ready scribe" (Ezra 7:6) who prepared his heart to seek the law of the Lord, and to do it, and to teach in Israel statutes and judgments (Ezra 7:10). Ezra was directed by Artaxerxes I in Ezra 7:25-26 to "set magistrates and judges, which may judge all the people that are beyond the river, all such as know the laws of thy God: and teach ye them that know them not..."

God caused a revival in the hearts of all the Israelite people who participated in the post-exilic return, as described in Haggai 1:14.

So, the New Covenant took place during Haggai's life? Before Christ?

Also, Nehemiah described the oath that all the returned Israelites made - their wives, their sons, and their daughters, every one who had knowledge and understanding - to walk in God's law (Nehemiah 10:28-29). You are mistakenly yanking this Jeremiah 31:34 text from its proper setting for the post-exilic return which Jeremiah was predicting.

But by the time Christ's generation arrived, "He came unto His own, and His own received Him not." (John 1:11). Isaiah had predicted that, though the Israelites should be as the sand of the sea, yet only a remnant would be saved. (Rom. 9:27). Paul spoke of this Israelite remnant, present in his own days - "even so at this present time also there remaineth a remnant according to the election of grace." (Romans 11:5). The majority of the Israelites in those first-century days were blinded in not recognizing their own predicted Messiah.

Did you know Saul took a prophecy and changed the meaning by changing a word? What does God say about someone that does that? Do you know?

6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:6.

Let's see what that liar, Saul, did:
Here's Isaiah:

22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea,
Yet a remnant of them shall return:
Isaiah 10:22.

Saul:

27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: Romans 9:26–27.

Saul changed a word in the original prophecy and added to God's Word. He lied. The original prophecy has Isaiah saying "return", but Saul changed it to "saved." What does God say about someone who would manipulate the Word of God? God calls him a liar. Saul cannot be trusted. If he lied about what Isaiah said where else does he lie?
Do you know?

God has always allowed the Gentile sojourners among the ethnic members of the tribes of Israel to have a shared inheritance among them, as long as they obeyed the same laws and participated in worship of Himself as the one true God (Numbers 15:14-16 and Ezekiel 47:22). This was intended to be an OT foreshadowing of the revealed "mystery" of God having included ALL nations among the children of faith along with faithful Abraham - regardless of ethnic background.

Those that "sojourn" with Israel are the descendants of Ishmael and Esau. That's why it is easy for them to receive the religion of their host people of God. But that's how hospitality worked in the desert dwellers of a middle eastern people. I think you are infected by false Constantinian Gentile theology that lies about what the Word of God says for a Gentile perspective and replacement theology. You follow a liar named Saul who thought to change God's Word in order to manipulate others into thinking that only a remnant is saved. How can a remnant be the only ones saved when God told Abraham his descendants would be as countless as the stars of heaven and innumerable as the sand on the seashore? Which is it? A remnant? Or billions and billions of Hebrews saved?

"Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants and handmaids, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL people." (Isaiah 56:6-7)

You are believing lies from Gentile replacement theorists. You follow an apostle who thinks it's OK to change what was originally written in Scripture to teach false teachings that have no Biblical basis. You believe Jesus died for everyone which is what Gentiles teach called Universalism. You believe that on the day Jesus died He didn't save anyone, merely made salvation possible if someone later would believe. You take the covenants of the Hebrew people and make them Gentile and make them to be inheritance stealers and replacement theologians who teach Jesus didn't save anyone on the day He died but made salvation possible to anyone if they would only exert "faith" in Christ to be saved. Let me guess, you also believe in altar-calls and in Universalism, that Jesus died for everyone and everyone is saved.

 

[Complete]

How do you suppose someone can "cast out demons [in your name]" mean? Does man have the "power" who isn't Spirit-baptized to cast out Satan? The answer to that doesn't rest with Christians "whom [I never knew you.]" is.
You have to reinterpret what a "demon" is and how someone whom the Lord "never knew" can "cast [him] out."

'Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord,
shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to Me in that day,
Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?
and in Thy name have cast out devils?
and in Thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them,
I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity'.
(Mat 7:21-23)

Hello there, @jeremiah1five,

'And John answered him, saying,
Master, we saw one casting out devils in Thy name,
and he followeth not us:
and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
But Jesus said, Forbid him not:
for there is no man
which shall do a miracle in My name,
that can lightly speak evil of Me.'
(Mar.9:39 )

* As can be seen in Mark 9:39, miracles were done in Jesus name, by those who were not His followers. The name of the Lord Jesus Christ was sufficient in itself . See the following:-

'The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob,
the God of our fathers, hath glorified His Son Jesus;
Whom ye delivered up, and denied Him in the presence of Pilate,
when He was determined to let Him go.
But ye denied the Holy One and the Just,
and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
And killed the Prince of life,
whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
And His name through faith in His name hath made this man strong,
Whom ye see and know:
yea, the faith which is by Him hath given Him this perfect soundness
in the presence of you all.'
(Act 3:13-16)

In Christ Jesus
Now risen and glorified
and sat at God's right hand.
Chris

 

[jeremiah1five]

'Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord,
shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to Me in that day,
Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?
and in Thy name have cast out devils?
and in Thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them,
I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity'.
(Mat 7:21-23)

Hello there, @jeremiah1five,

'And John answered him, saying,
Master, we saw one casting out devils in Thy name,
and he followeth not us:
and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
But Jesus said, Forbid him not:
for there is no man
which shall do a miracle in My name,
that can lightly speak evil of Me.'
(Mar.9:39 )

* As can be seen in Mark 9:39, miracles were done in Jesus name, by those who were not His followers. The name of the Lord Jesus Christ was sufficient in itself . See the following:-

'The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob,
the God of our fathers, hath glorified His Son Jesus;
Whom ye delivered up, and denied Him in the presence of Pilate,
when He was determined to let Him go.
But ye denied the Holy One and the Just,
and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
And killed the Prince of life,
whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
And His name through faith in His name hath made this man strong,
Whom ye see and know:
yea, the faith which is by Him hath given Him this perfect soundness
in the presence of you all.'
(Act 3:13-16)

In Christ Jesus
Now risen and glorified
and sat at God's right hand.
Chris

So, you accept that unbelievers who do not have the Holy Spirit have authority over Satan - whom you also believe is the angel Lucifer - to cast out Satan/Lucifer from their lives despite the fact that Peter said along with Isaiah and Jude, that the angels that sinned are locked up (and) awaiting judgment? This also means you believe that fallen angels can possess men - unbelievers - in the first place, and in the second-place unbelievers who are not saved and do not have the Holy Spirit can actually cast Satan out of other people? And in the third place, Satan can only be in one place at a time on the planet after having escaped their prison put there by God before He created heaven, earth, and man? If the angels that sinned have escaped their imprisonment by God and are roaming "to and fro" upon earth - meaning that Peter, and Isaiah, and Jude's statements in their Scripture locations were NOT telling the truth of their being locked up - and unsaved men have authority over them to cast them out of other unsaved people?

I'm sorry but your beliefs have so many holes in them and that does not have biblical support at all.

 

[Complete]

So, you accept that unbelievers who do not have the Holy Spirit have authority over Satan - whom you also believe is the angel Lucifer - to cast out Satan/Lucifer from their lives despite the fact that Peter said along with Isaiah and Jude, that the angels that sinned are locked up (and) awaiting judgment? This also means you believe that fallen angels can possess men - unbelievers - in the first place, and in the second-place unbelievers who are not saved and do not have the Holy Spirit can actually cast Satan out of other people? And in the third place, Satan can only be in one place at a time on the planet after having escaped their prison put there by God before He created heaven, earth, and man? If the angels that sinned have escaped their imprisonment by God and are roaming "to and fro" upon earth - meaning that Peter, and Isaiah, and Jude's statements in their Scripture locations were NOT telling the truth of their being locked up - and unsaved men have authority over them to cast them out of other unsaved people?

I'm sorry but your beliefs have so many holes in them and that does not have biblical support at all.

'And John answered him, saying,
Master, we saw one casting out devils in Thy name,
and he followeth not us:
and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
But Jesus said, Forbid him not:
for there is no man
which shall do a miracle in My name,
that can lightly speak evil of Me.'
(Mar.9:39 )

Hello @jeremiah1five,

No, I am merely quoting a verse which tells us that in the days of Christ's first advent, those who did not follow Jesus, none the less worked miracles in His Name.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Complete]

'Jesus answered them,
I told you, and ye believed not:
the works that I do in my Father's name,
they bear witness of Me.'
(Joh. 10:25)

Hello again, @jeremiah1five,

The Lord Jesus performed miracles in His Father's name: and He told His disciples that whatsoever they shall ask in His Name He would do: Why? 'That the Father may be glorified in the Son.'

It would seem that it was the use of the name of the Lord Jesus Christ that was sufficient in itself for what was being asked for, in that name, to be done; (regardless of who was asking) and for the same reason (John 14:13 &14), 'That the Father may be glorified in the Son.'

Praise His Holy Name

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[jeremiah1five]

'And John answered him, saying,
Master, we saw one casting out devils in Thy name,
and he followeth not us:
and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
But Jesus said, Forbid him not:
for there is no man
which shall do a miracle in My name,
that can lightly speak evil of Me.'
(Mar.9:39 )

Hello @jeremiah1five,

No, I am merely quoting a verse which tells us that in the days of Christ's first advent, those who did not follow Jesus, none the less worked miracles in His Name.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

ALL miracles are from God. No man can disturb or interrupt the natural order and laws of nature to bring about a preconceived end. Men cannot raise the dead or divide a sea nor cause fish to enter a net let alone feed twenty thousand souls on a two-piece fish meal deal. You are mistaken to believe men - unsaved men (and women) - can perform miracles. God does not use evil men who are ruled over themselves by unatoned sin and death to do any good and righteous thing when that very same sin and death rule over their unatoned lives. And as Jesus said, "Satan cannot cast out Satan." Especially when God Himself has said that the angels that sinned have been locked up since before men were created and began to populate the earth.

The textbook answer you believe in is that Satan rules over the lives of all those chosen for damnation by God and Satan will not abdicate his sovereignty over unsaved persons to allow any human authority to cast him out of a person he has possessed for an evil purpose. No unsaved man - according to the books you read and accept as true - can overrule Satan and command him to do anything he himself does not allow for as your textbook says, he rules over the unsaved world and any miracle that men perceive as miracles are no more than mere counterfeits to the great and awesome power of the Lord who does rule over His creation like the Creator-King that He is.

But that is Satan's greatest deception, isn't it? To make the world believe that presumed 'miracles' come from God when Satan has no creative powers to make a stone into bread or even to recover from a presumed mortal wound to the head. So, if Satan himself possesses no power to any creative act in the universe, then why do you give him the glory as though he made a cripple to walk or a blind man see? Satan can do none of these things. So, why do you give him the glory or even of his servants the power and the glory that only God possesses of God's own Sovereign power over nature to say he and those that are possessed of sin and death the power to make the sun stand still in the heavens or to bring a dead man back to life and living? Isn't that the textbook answer of committing the unpardonable sin, to call something good, evil, and something evil, good? But that is exactly what you say in your words: "those who did not follow Jesus, none the less worked miracles in His Name."

The biblical concept of a "miracle" is defined as an extraordinary event that involves the direct and powerful action of God, which transcends the ordinary laws of nature. In the biblical sense, a miracle is not just a strange or lucky occurrence, but a divinely wrought Sign and Wonder that displays God's Mighty Power to reveal His character and further His purposes. Unsaved persons cannot be the intermediaries used by God that accomplish this. NO MAN or imprisoned fallen angel has the power to call forth a Lazarus from the grave. Satan cannot do this. Man cannot do this for all true miracles that interfere with the laws of nature and natures God have any power to change a leopard's spots into zebra stripes. You are gravely mistaken to believe unsaved persons have the power or authority from God to do this for these things are squarely in the Providence of God Himself and neither does He abdicate His authority over nature to cause a river flowing downhill to unexpectedly reverse course and flow uphill!

Your belief that unsaved man can is ungodly and unscriptural in the least while also being a deceptive lie straight from the pit of hell at the most. Just because someone evil calls something good, and someone good calls something done in the name of God evil does not mean they are of God. The devil has been lying since the beginning and is the father of it. Those that believe him are his children.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? Revelation 13:3–4.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. Revelation 13: 8–18.

No man or angel have power to interrupt or cancel the natural order of the universe which is solely in the power of God to perform. Those that believe man and angels can do this are seated in the synagogue of Satan and worship the beast as forerunners of the fake Christians who've been deceived into believing such a lie as true and the end result of this is a world deceived by the false miracles of the first beast merely because the second beast says so.

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six....If any man have an ear, let him hear.

 

[jeremiah1five]

'Jesus answered them,
I told you, and ye believed not:
the works that I do in my Father's name,
they bear witness of Me.'
(Joh. 10:25)

Hello again, @jeremiah1five,

The Lord Jesus performed miracles in His Father's name: and He told His disciples that whatsoever they shall ask in His Name He would do: Why? 'That the Father may be glorified in the Son.'

It would seem that it was the use of the name of the Lord Jesus Christ that was sufficient in itself for what was being asked for, in that name, to be done; (regardless of who was asking) and for the same reason (John 14:13 &14), 'That the Father may be glorified in the Son.'

Praise His Holy Name

In Christ Jesus
Chris

But the disciples also knew they could not change an apple into an orange. Those things we as believers would ask of the Lord in our petitions would be of sound mind and power and love in all honesty and in accordance with Scripture. Those that understand the Word of God in these matters know of a surety that "Satan" cannot cast out "Satan" but are only perceived as having done so for Satan will never allow one of his minions to cast him out of a fellow sinner. And since Satan can only be in one place at a time who is it exactly is the one sinner casting out of another sinner? It can't be Satan when there exists the one statement by Peter that "God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment", can it?


20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil;
That put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
That put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes,
And prudent in their own sight!
22 Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine,
And men of strength to mingle strong drink:
23 Which justify the wicked for reward,
And take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!

24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble,
And the flame consumeth the chaff,
So their root shall be as rottenness,
And their blossom shall go up as dust:
Because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts,
And despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.
Isaiah 5:20–24.

The Word of the Holy One of Israel is that Satan cannot cast out Satan for this in itself would be a sign that his "kingdom" is over, all the while he convinces the world that his "kingdom" is of God and will last forever instead of the Scripture that says, [But] "if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house. He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."

Jesus is teaching that the kingdom of Satan is NOT divided because of 'Satan casting out Satan' but that his kingdom of sin and death is overcome by the finger of God on the arm of the Lord. He then comes to the bottom line of this teaching on the unforgivable sin that "he that is not with me is against me." This is what it all comes down to. The ONLY ONE who can cast out Satan is the Lord. And He was proving it by being the ONLY ONE who CAN cast out Satan, and He does it by a mere finger NOT some imagined power of casting out Satan by Satan. Jesus is the stronger man binding the strong man (Satan) for the sole purpose of taketh away that which was never given, even that which he thinks he has.

18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have. Luke 8:18.

HOW can the Lord take away from someone who has not what he never possessed?

Think about that for a second. If you have no money in your purse, HOW can I take away something you don't possess? Duh.

The passage you are quoting above is a BELIEVER, a saved, Holy Spirit-filled, believer who is 'operating' in the Name - or authority - from the Lord to do or not do a thing. It has nothing to do with anyone who is unsaved "doing miracles" which is impossible for any unsaved person to be behind any perceived "miracle." An unsaved person CANNOT perform miracles, not even if he was falsely "casting out Satan" which not even Satan can do to himself.

Ya falla?

 

[Complete]

But the disciples also knew they could not change an apple into an orange. Those things we as believers would ask of the Lord in our petitions would be of sound mind and power and love in all honesty and in accordance with Scripture. Those that understand the Word of God in these matters know of a surety that "Satan" cannot cast out "Satan" but are only perceived as having done so for Satan will never allow one of his minions to cast him out of a fellow sinner. And since Satan can only be in one place at a time who is it exactly is the one sinner casting out of another sinner? It can't be Satan when there exists the one statement by Peter that "God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment", can it?


20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil;
That put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
That put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes,
And prudent in their own sight!
22 Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine,
And men of strength to mingle strong drink:
23 Which justify the wicked for reward,
And take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!

24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble,
And the flame consumeth the chaff,
So their root shall be as rottenness,
And their blossom shall go up as dust:
Because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts,
And despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.
Isaiah 5:20–24.

The Word of the Holy One of Israel is that Satan cannot cast out Satan for this in itself would be a sign that his "kingdom" is over, all the while he convinces the world that his "kingdom" is of God and will last forever instead of the Scripture that says, [But] "if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house. He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."

Jesus is teaching that the kingdom of Satan is NOT divided because of 'Satan casting out Satan' but that his kingdom of sin and death is overcome by the finger of God on the arm of the Lord. He then comes to the bottom line of this teaching on the unforgivable sin that "he that is not with me is against me." This is what it all comes down to. The ONLY ONE who can cast out Satan is the Lord. And He was proving it by being the ONLY ONE who CAN cast out Satan, and He does it by a mere finger NOT some imagined power of casting out Satan by Satan. Jesus is the stronger man binding the strong man (Satan) for the sole purpose of taketh away that which was never given, even that which he thinks he has.

18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have. Luke 8:18.

HOW can the Lord take away from someone who has not what he never possessed?

Think about that for a second. If you have no money in your purse, HOW can I take away something you don't possess? Duh.

The passage you are quoting above is a BELIEVER, a saved, Holy Spirit-filled, believer who is 'operating' in the Name - or authority - from the Lord to do or not do a thing. It has nothing to do with anyone who is unsaved "doing miracles" which is impossible for any unsaved person to be behind any perceived "miracle." An unsaved person CANNOT perform miracles, not even if he was falsely "casting out Satan" which not even Satan can do to himself.

Ya falla?

Master, we saw one casting out devils in Thy name,
and he followeth not us:
and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
But Jesus said, Forbid him not:
for there is no man
which shall do a miracle in My name,
that can lightly speak evil of Me.'
(Mar.9:39 )

These are the word of the Lord Jesus Christ, @jeremiah1five. I suggest you take your thoughts regarding this subject and lay them at His feet.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[jeremiah1five]

Master, we saw one casting out devils in Thy name,
and he followeth not us:
and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
But Jesus said, Forbid him not:
for there is no man
which shall do a miracle in My name,
that can lightly speak evil of Me.'
(Mar.9:39 )

These are the word of the Lord Jesus Christ, @jeremiah1five. I suggest you take your thoughts regarding this subject and lay them at His feet.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

First, how many "devils" or "Satans" are there in Scripture? Why the plural if only ONE "devil" is meant?

Second, the Greek Word: δαιμόνιον [Strong's #1140] is the transliteration: daimonion and is neuter of a derivative of [#1142] (daimon); a dæmonic being; by extensive a deity from daio (to distribute fortunes); a dæmon or supernatural spirit (of a bad nature.) So, tell me how "distribute" refers to any masculine or feminine person such as Satan himself which isn't what the Greek word refers to as a noun neutral? Sound confusing? It shouldn't be because "devils" doesn't refer to ol' slewfoot. It refers to a "spirit" (of a bad nature) which is interesting because the Greek root word was coined for there was no Greek equivalent of the Hebrew word that it's trying to represent. A bad attitude is a "bad spirit." And this is what it is actually trying to define. Is "Satan" really a "deity"? No, he is not and the Greek word that was coined to translate the Hebrew concept of "attitude" is seen. And since it doesn't refer to "Satan" (it would if the word was capitalized) then it is the "attitude" of a person which is in view. So, we have the root word (#1142) and its derivative (#1140.)

All of this is not a man who the disciples said was casting out "Satans" but a man who was dealing with 'bad spirit' in others' attitudes. And it is the attitudes Jesus Himself would seek first to subdue in a person before He would be able to minister to the person. Attitudes in Christianity are very important. It is important that when a person worships God that he/she have the right attitude or "spirit."

A third thing to notice is that Jesus speaks of "miracles" in His response to the disciples who pointed out some who wasn't part of the discipleship of Jesus. The Holy Spirit is said in Scripture to "rest on Jesus" right? A mere man cannot perform miracles unless it is the Holy Spirit Himself that is the One who is performing [the] "miracles." Is this possible that others who were not "with" the discipleship of Jesus had the Holy Spirit who is the Author of true "miracles"? So, the Greek word "dynamis = doo’-nam-is" is used elsewhere of the Holy Spirit" but the Holy Spirit rested with Jesus and He wasn't sent until Jesus FIRST departed and THEN He would send Him (the Comforter/Holy Spirit.) We would have to acknowledge that the Holy Spirit not only 'rested on Jesus' but that He was also manifested in the lives of others BEFORE the Holy Spirit's arrival in Acts 2. Are you going to support that interpretation? Your answer should be, "of course not!"

Or do you support that?

 

[TedT]

ImCo:

GOD obviously did not before creation know everybody since not everyone will become like Jesus, which Rom 8:29 defines predestination to mean and, as per Matthew 7:21– 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ which tells us what knowing means, emphasising the idea that loving is knowing and knowing about has no love.

James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.
Jesus obviously knew about the demons and knew about the miracle workers but this knowing contained no love as it is plain, He never knew them.

This means that foreknow must carry the idea of approval. As one commentator stated it, “Whom HE foreknew” is virtually equivalent to “whom HE foreloved”.

Now this question comes to mind: if it is true that no one had been created at the time of this foreknowledge, on what basis does GOD "before life" love some and not the rest?

Before creation foreknowledge would mean that there is no reason for HIS particular "before life" love...which implies that GOD's election / foreknowing is thus based on eenie, meenie, minie, mo! How can you put your faith in a GOD like that? How much better to admit that we should start looking in some area we have not looked yet, and since we cannot find any of those, why not finally admit that we need a revelation from GOD to give us an infinitely loving answer to this problem?

Now, according to pre-conception existence theology, (pre-earth existence) the "before life" love (foreknowledge) of GOD, that is, HIS pre-life approval of some and rejection of the rest was based on the prior uncoerced choice by the creature by faith (in heaven, before physical creation) and on HIS infinite love, which means that HE will never stop loving anyone who can possibly ever come to glorify HIM.

The reason why HE loved some "before this life" and why HE did not love the rest is found in their (our) response for or against HIM when He proclaimed to every creature under heaven HIS divinity and HIS gospel of salvation from sin, Col 1:23, which we heard before the creation of the physical universe:
Isaiah 40:21-23 Do you not know? Have you not heard? Has it not been declared to you from the beginning? Have you not understood since the foundation of the earth? which the obvious and only correct answer is "YES, I heard this then!"

Before the physical creation, some had chosen to eternally defile themselves and some had not. Some had decided to never ever fulfil HIS purpose to be HIS Bride and some were still able to fulfil HIS purpose, some willingly, (angels) and others only if HE was infallibly gracious ( by election) to them (His fallen church). Yes, and He predestined these sinful people of HIS kingdom by their faith to be conformed to the image of HIS Son, and HE predestined the other sinful people of the evil one for the Day of Judgement, Jn 3:18, and established them for the correction of the fallen elect. Matt 13:29 ‘NO!’ he said, [postpone the judgement because...] ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest...that is, until the sinful elect give up their willingness to live with the evil of the reprobate and choose to be holy and in full accord with the judgement.

In short, the fall of every sinner happened before the creation of the physical universe and this fall was the reason for the reprobation of some before the foundation of the world....not whim.

 

[Complete]

First, how many "devils" or "Satans" are there in Scripture? Why the plural if only ONE "devil" is meant?

Second, the Greek Word: δαιμόνιον [Strong's #1140] is the transliteration: daimonion and is neuter of a derivative of [#1142] (daimon); a dæmonic being; by extensive a deity from daio (to distribute fortunes); a dæmon or supernatural spirit (of a bad nature.) So, tell me how "distribute" refers to any masculine or feminine person such as Satan himself which isn't what the Greek word refers to as a noun neutral? Sound confusing? It shouldn't be because "devils" doesn't refer to ol' slewfoot. It refers to a "spirit" (of a bad nature) which is interesting because the Greek root word was coined for there was no Greek equivalent of the Hebrew word that it's trying to represent. A bad attitude is a "bad spirit." And this is what it is actually trying to define. Is "Satan" really a "deity"? No, he is not and the Greek word that was coined to translate the Hebrew concept of "attitude" is seen. And since it doesn't refer to "Satan" (it would if the word was capitalized) then it is the "attitude" of a person which is in view. So, we have the root word (#1142) and its derivative (#1140.)

All of this is not a man who the disciples said was casting out "Satans" but a man who was dealing with 'bad spirit' in others' attitudes. And it is the attitudes Jesus Himself would seek first to subdue in a person before He would be able to minister to the person. Attitudes in Christianity are very important. It is important that when a person worships God that he/she have the right attitude or "spirit."

A third thing to notice is that Jesus speaks of "miracles" in His response to the disciples who pointed out some who wasn't part of the discipleship of Jesus. The Holy Spirit is said in Scripture to "rest on Jesus" right? A mere man cannot perform miracles unless it is the Holy Spirit Himself that is the One who is performing [the] "miracles." Is this possible that others who were not "with" the discipleship of Jesus had the Holy Spirit who is the Author of true "miracles"? So, the Greek word "dynamis = doo’-nam-is" is used elsewhere of the Holy Spirit" but the Holy Spirit rested with Jesus and He wasn't sent until Jesus FIRST departed and THEN He would send Him (the Comforter/Holy Spirit.) We would have to acknowledge that the Holy Spirit not only 'rested on Jesus' but that He was also manifested in the lives of others BEFORE the Holy Spirit's arrival in Acts 2. Are you going to support that interpretation? Your answer should be, "of course not!"

Or do you support that?

Master, we saw one casting out devils in Thy name,
and he followeth not us:
and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
But Jesus said, Forbid him not:
for there is no man
which shall do a miracle in My name,
that can lightly speak evil of Me.'
(Mar.9:39 )

Hello @jeremiah1five,

In Mark 9:39 (G1140) it is obviously demons that are being referred to, it is only Satan himself who is referred to as the Devil specifically (G1140) in the New Testament. In the Old Testament (H7854) also: In Job, chapters 1 & 2, Psalm 109:6 & Zech. 3:1 & 2, we have a glimpse of this spiritual being in operation. In the temptation of the Lord Jesus Christ in the New Testament too of course (G4567), and reference is made to him in the letters and the book of Revelation. A study of all references to either the name Devil or Satan, is necessary to give a rounded and thorough understanding of the being and work of this spiritual being, yet his operation is witnessed throughout all the Scriptures.

* It is not for us to speak evil of such beings:-

'The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations,
and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
But chiefly them that walk after the flesh
in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government.
Presumptuous are they, self-willed,
they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might,
bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.'
(2Pe 2:9-11)

'Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh,
despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.'
(Jude 1:8 )

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Complete]

'And you hath He quickened,
who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked
according to the course of this world,
according to the prince of the power of the air,
the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past
in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind;
and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.'
(Eph 2:1-3)

 

[Darrell L.]

Satan and his forces are not endowed with the wisdom of God the Creator. But to take too lightly their ability to plot and scheme is tantamount to giving permission to be influenced by them. Again, awareness of their tactics and strategies are crucial to combating them.

The work of demons—their tactics and activities—is limited to a single aspiration and singular goal. Their desire is to please Satan their ruler and their god. Satan needs them to carry out his objectives since he, in spite of all his powers, is limited, he not being equal with God who is unlimited and sovereign.

So Satan uses demons to fulfill his wishes, and demons, in turn, are designed to carry them out. And the goal of demons is the same obsessive goal of the Evil One, Satan, which is to thwart and oppose the will of God. Everything demons do is toward that end.

And their father, the Devil, empowers them to work toward that goal. Gary Kinnaman has said it in a unique way, “… Where Satan leads, demons follow.… Together they cooperate in a celestial conspiracy against God, God’s purposes, and God’s people.”

Since man is Satan’s prime target on earth, his demons, likewise, seek to dominate, control, possess, and defeat him. And how do they do this? Perhaps we should ask, how do they try to do this, for not all men succumb to their tactics.

Demons concentrate on man’s weaknesses. They know where a person is most vulnerable. Hence the importance of surrendering our whole beings to the Lord Jesus Christ, becoming His captive rather than being captured by Satan and his demons.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Demons concentrate on man’s weaknesses. They know where a person is most vulnerable. Hence the importance of surrendering our whole beings to the Lord Jesus Christ, becoming His captive rather than being captured by Satan and his demons.

All of that was once true about demons, but not anymore. This has become a moot point since God destroyed the entire realm of Satanic creatures once and for all back in AD 70.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Master, we saw one casting out devils in Thy name,
and he followeth not us:
and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
But Jesus said, Forbid him not:
for there is no man
which shall do a miracle in My name,
that can lightly speak evil of Me.'
(Mar.9:39 )

Hello @jeremiah1five,

In Mark 9:39 (G1140) it is obviously demons that are being referred to, it is only Satan himself who is referred to as the Devil specifically (G1140) in the New Testament. In the Old Testament (H7854) also: In Job, chapters 1 & 2, Psalm 109:6 & Zech. 3:1 & 2, we have a glimpse of this spiritual being in operation.

No, the word in the KJV and other English translations is "devils." That is the Greek word that was coined to transliterate from Hebrew to Greek when no Greek word would suffice.

In the temptation of the Lord Jesus Christ in the New Testament too of course (G4567), and reference is made to him in the letters and the book of Revelation. A study of all references to either the name Devil or Satan, is necessary to give a rounded and thorough understanding of the being and work of this spiritual being, yet his operation is witnessed throughout all the Scriptures.

* It is not for us to speak evil of such beings:-

'The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations,
and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
But chiefly them that walk after the flesh
in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government.
Presumptuous are they, self-willed,
they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might,
bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.'
(2Pe 2:9-11)

'Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh,
despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.'
(Jude 1:8 )

In Christ Jesus
Chris

You're conflating and confusing the truth. Does everyone who undergoes temptation blame the Devil/Satan/Lucifer? How can the angels that sinned and were locked up by God be loosed to tempt Jesus? They were locked up awaiting judgment. There are not two ways for men to be tempted. There is only ONE way and that was the same way you, or I, and even Jesus was tempted.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:14.

Jesus was a man. That's the way Jesus was tempted, how Peter was tempted, how you are tempted, and how every MAN is tempted: Of our own lust as it says in the KJV.

The medieval Catholic Church did great damage in the way "demons and devils and Satan" is depicted in culture, art, and in our minds. I suggest you do an in-depth and long-time study of this subject in order to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[Complete]

All of that was once true about demons, but not anymore. This has become a moot point since God destroyed the entire realm of Satanic creature once and for all back in AD 70.​

Hello @3 Resurrections,

Would you please provide the scriptures to confirm this.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[civic]

No, the word in the KJV and other English translations is "devils." That is the Greek word that was coined to transliterate from Hebrew to Greek when no Greek word would suffice.

You're conflating and confusing the truth. Does everyone who undergoes temptation blame the Devil/Satan/Lucifer? How can the angels that sinned and were locked up by God be loosed to tempt Jesus? They were locked up awaiting judgment. There are not two ways for men to be tempted. There is only ONE way and that was the same way you, or I, and even Jesus was tempted.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:14.

Jesus was a man. That's the way Jesus was tempted, how Peter was tempted, how you are tempted, and how every MAN is tempted: Of our own lust as it says in the KJV.

The medieval Catholic Church did great damage in the way "demons and devils and Satan" is depicted in culture, art, and in our minds. I suggest you do an in-depth and long-time study of this subject in order to come to the knowledge of the truth.

are you saying Jesus was not tempted in the wilderness from satan, the devil ? Scripture and Jesus use them interchangeable being one in the same being- the devil/satan.

Matthew 4
Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
2After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry.
3The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

4Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’

5Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
6“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’
7;Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’

8Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9“All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

10Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.

11Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

conclusion: Scripture declares the being who temps is known as satan/ the devil. Peter says he prowls around like a roaring lion to devour. 1 Peter 5:8. After-all He like Jesus was tempted by the same being. Peter failed, Jesus did not. The other Apostles also affirm he is real, exists and is still active. see below:

Luke 22:31
Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you like wheat.

James 4:7
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Ephesians 6:11-12
Put on the full armor of God, so that you can make your stand against the devil’s schemes. / For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world’s darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

2 Corinthians 2:11
in order that Satan should not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.

1 John 3:8
The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil.

hope this helps !!!

 

[3 Resurrections]

Hello @3 Resurrections,

Would you please provide the scriptures to confirm this.

Hebrews 12:26 - "But NOW hath he promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, 'Yet once more', signifieth the REMOVING of those things that are shaken..." The evil angelic powers of the heavens were about to be shaken and then removed in the days Hebrews was being written (around 64 AD.)

Romans 16:20 - "And the God of peace shall crush Satan under your feet SHORTLY." (written around AD 60.) This promised a soon fulfillment of the ancient prediction given to Eve that the head of Satan would eventually be crushed under the heel of the Seed of the Woman.

Zechariah 12-14 - These chapters describe the prophecy given to Israel which would be fulfilled in the AD 66-70 "siege both against Judah and Jerusalem". Zechariah 13:2 predicted that God would "cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land". The unclean spirit" here in Zech. 13:2 were the same as the prediction given in Revelation 18:2 that Jerusalem as "Babylon the Great" would become a habitation of devils, and a prison for "EVERY unclean spirit".

Every member of the Satanic realm was cast into the city of Jerusalem during the AD 66-70 years to torment the besieged inhabitants of the city in the nation's "last state". It was in that location that God got rid of the entire Satanic realm. He used it to judge His own people, as Christ had already predicted back in Matthew 12:43-45. The devils cast out of Israel's citizens would return in seven-fold numbers more wicked than those Christ had cast out before during His earthly ministry in that wicked generation's "first state". This would render that wicked generation's "last state" worse than before.

Inside the city of Jerusalem during the AD 66-70 years, the demon-possessed individuals inside it tormented each other by slaying each other under the competing Zealot factions. Satan's kingdom became "divided against itself". And as Christ said in Mark 3:24-26, if Satan's kingdom would "rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an END".

This "END" of Satan's kingdom was pictured for us in Revelation 16:17 when the seventh angel poured out his vial "into the AIR". This was a judgment over the "Prince of the power of the AIR", when Satan's kingdom was eradicated entirely. And we know this is ancient history, because John wrote in both Rev. 1:3 and 22:10 that the visions which he was writing (around AD 60) were "AT HAND" in his own generation.

Do you need more? Because there are more Scriptures related to the AD 70 death of Satan and his devils that I can submit, from both the OT and the NT. The spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realm no longer exist. The blame for any evil performed in this world since AD 70 lies squarely at the feet of fallen mankind ALONE and the wicked impulses of the human heart.