Men Do Have a Certain Work

[Rockson]

Yes their theology rather than context drives their interpretation

Really though I don't think they're interpreting those verses in Jn 6: 26, 29

They truly have to know that if Jesus told them don't work for this BUT FOR that (as we see in verse 27) they have to know the only way they can rightly interpret that is Jesus said you do have to work for something....at least in a certain way, form or fashion. No one can convince me they can't see that's what Jesus said. To me at least it's a stonewalling and a resisting of what they can see Jesus actually said. Could I be wrong on that. Don't think so.

 

[civic]

Really though I don't think they're interpreting those verses in Jn 6: 26, 29

They truly have to know that if Jesus told them don't work for this BUT FOR that (as we see in verse 27) they have to know the only way they can rightly interpret that is Jesus said you do have to work for something....at least in a certain way, form or fashion. No one can convince me they can't see that's what Jesus said. To me at least it's a stonewalling and a resisting of what they can see Jesus actually said. Could I be wrong on that. Don't think so.

Yes they say the polar opposite of what Jesus was teaching

 

[Rockson]

Yes if they were wrong Jesus would of told them for sure

To me what I see they do with the Jn 6:26,29 verses is they seek to force a conclusion.

Here's what I mean. In the entertainment industry one can see writers do this in TV or movies. A story line is moving ahead at a certain rhythm and word comes down the series must end or only 15 mintues left in the film. Conclusions in the story are then forced in an unnatural way in a way that defies rational common sense. Such is what Calvinists do with scripture. They have Jesus saying MEN do indeed have to work or something but swing it around with a jolt to the readers that Jesus clamps down on them with an entirely new and different concept opposite of what he stated the two or three verses prior.

If there was a build up to it sure a statement can be modified but to go from just YOU DO have to do a certain work to NO it's the work of God where you do nothing there's no statement within which even seeks to declare I'm modifying what he said. So it becomes forced, choppy and unnatural. My encouragement to readers is to stay with the natural flow of the Jn 6:26,29 passage. There is a work of a certain kind one HAS TO DO to receive the grace of God. That work is the work of faith not to be confused with working according to the law which Paul stated we don't do.

 

[Believe]

In Matthew 16:24, Jesus told His disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.”

Jesus’ command to “take up your cross and follow Me” is a call to self-abasement and self-sacrifice. One must be willing to die in order to follow Jesus. Dying to self is an absolute surrender to God.

Therefore dying to self is a certain work that men have to do in order to follow Jesus.

 

[civic]

In Matthew 16:24, Jesus told His disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.”

Jesus’ command to “take up your cross and follow Me” is a call to self-abasement and self-sacrifice. One must be willing to die in order to follow Jesus. Dying to self is an absolute surrender to God.

Therefore dying to self is a certain work that men have to do in order to follow Jesus.

Amen and faith requires it according to the teaching of Jesus and the apostles. They are preaching a cheap grace.

 

[TomL]

Really though I don't think they're interpreting those verses in Jn 6: 26, 29

They truly have to know that if Jesus told them don't work for this BUT FOR that (as we see in verse 27) they have to know the only way they can rightly interpret that is Jesus said you do have to work for something....at least in a certain way, form or fashion. No one can convince me they can't see that's what Jesus said. To me at least it's a stonewalling and a resisting of what they can see Jesus actually said. Could I be wrong on that. Don't think so.

They are interpreting that is assuming it according to their theology not according to context

 

[TomL]

Yes if they were wrong Jesus would of told them for sure

Assumption is all they have. Context matters little when all wants to do is protect a suppositional theology

 

[Johann]

In Matthew 16:24, Jesus told His disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.”

Jesus’ command to “take up your cross and follow Me” is a call to self-abasement and self-sacrifice. One must be willing to die in order to follow Jesus. Dying to self is an absolute surrender to God.

Therefore dying to self is a certain work that men have to do in order to follow Jesus.

Love the way you exegete the 3 Imperatives in that one verse.
Good work brother.

 

[Studyman]

I've entitled my thread, "Men Do Have a Certain Work" that is for salvation but it's not a work seeking to be saved they the keeping of the law, but rather by an act of faith. That's the context of which Paul was speaking of in Eph 2:8 when talking about works.....not a work of faith but rather the work of seeking to be saved by the keeping of the law. You ARE NOT saved by such but you are saved by an act or yes (I won't back down from it) by a work of faith which WE DO and not God.

I like your post, I just find it fascinating that somehow, we have been taught from our youth by this world's religions, that there were religious men in Jesus Time who were trying to earn salvation by "Yielding themselves" servants to obey God's Law. So much so that you have to make sure everyone knows you aren't trying to "earn" salvation by humbling yourself to God. And why would you even think of something like this? Because there are religious men who preach to others that the Pharisees were trying to earn Salvation by keeping God's Laws. A philosophy that cannot be supported by scriptures, unless a man takes one sentence out of the bible and separates it from EVERY Word of Jesus, when HE was defining the Pharisees.

And what is a work of Faith? It is a "Work" of belief, Yes? If God said to me, "Don't eat of that tree, because in the day that you eat, you shall die". But I listened to another voice who said, "You shall surely not die if you eat of that tree". Then by my "Works" you would know my Faith, Yes? If I ate of the Tree anyway, it would show that I didn't believe God, or have Faith in God. If I didn't eat, even though another voice told it was OK, it would show my belief, or Faith in God. Simple enough for a child to understand.

Jesus, as a man, showed us who HE believed, not just by words, but by "Works".

John 10: 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Therefore, the Jesus of the Bible showed HIS Faith by His works. This is the Faith that was in Christ Jesus that men are to strive for, in my understanding. Jesus prayed to the God who could save Him from death. This was the Spirit of Life that was in Christ Jesus. He walked in the LAW of the Spirit of Life. Jesus always did those things that pleased His Father

John 8: 29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Isn't it crazy that we live in a religious world where a man has to actually defend the very Faith that was in the Jesus "of the Bible"?

Yes I know many dear Calvinists will hunker down and persist in their false interpretation of Eph 2:8 "Not of works" part of a verse but I'd hope at least some of them will have a second look at what Jesus said about it and that in turn is what Paul meant about it too. Let's go to Jn 6:26,30 and I think I might be able to show a verse they've never given much consideration. Calvinists will look at Jn 6:29 and assert something in error about it and THEY WILL NOT look at the verses around it . I appeal however to Calvinists which are honest and sincere. Let's look at the 4 verses below, ALL OF THEM.

Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you are seeking me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate your fill of the loaves. 27Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.” 28Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” 30So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? Jn 6:26,30

Let's unpack this. Jesus told them THEY were working for something....THEY WERE! Not God They were working for the food which perishes but Jesus told them they were not to work for that which perishes BUT....BUT they were to work, YES WORK for a different thing......to work for the food which endures to eternal life which the Son of Man would give them which he would give them AFTER they worked......but that is the WORK OF FAITH they were to work.

Not the work of trying to be saved by the keeping of the law (which Paul spoke about) but rather the work of faith. They asked Jesus what was the work that THEY were to do? Jesus told them this was the work they were to do.....believe on the Son. They all knew what Jesus meant by that even his emeries! Not one of them could say what Jesus said wasn't clear!

Not one of them said, "Of well if God puts all the believing in us (as a Calvinist would say) then OK God if we're not believing it's your fault!" Not one of them said that! They basically replied to Jesus in verse 30, Ok you're saying WE MUST do a certain work.....and that work is to believe in you, for that is what you've said.....now what sign will you do so that we can, we can, WE CAN DO THIS WORK. Folks context is KING! The work of a person in believing is something THEY DO not God.

2 Cor. 5: 9 Wherefore "we labour", that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.



Great post Rockson.