Judaism is very messy.....

Shows your ignorance about the Hebrew language among your other deficiencies.
Shalom can mean peace, well being, hello, good-bye.
I was using it in the context to you of good-bye.
You say "shalom" but you mean "shalom ve lo lehitraot".
"Shalom" (goodbye) carries a dishonest connotation to the rest of your message.
 
Why did you cut the Catholics out of this?
The Catholic Church definition of the term was not applicable to this conversation ... this is not a Catholic Forum, so violating the teaching of the magisterium is not "heresy". One is not required to believe in the assumption of the Blessed Virgin or Purgatory on "Berean Apologetics Ministries" to avoid being declared a heretic by the RCC. It was included, because it is definition 1b in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary that I was quoting and definitions 1a and 1c were applicable.
 
THAT is the definition of "heresy" (the direct rejection of "orthodox" Christian dogma) ... like the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses do.

Now you can use the word correctly.

The Catholic Church definition of the term was not applicable to this conversation ... this is not a Catholic Forum, so violating the teaching of the magisterium is not "heresy". One is not required to believe in the assumption of the Blessed Virgin or Purgatory on "Berean Apologetics Ministries" to avoid being declared a heretic by the RCC. It was included, because it is definition 1b in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary that I was quoting and definitions 1a and 1c were applicable.
Oh, I thought you were giving the Catholic members here a pass.
 
THAT is the definition of "heresy" (the direct rejection of "orthodox" Christian dogma) ... like the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses do.

Now you can use the word correctly.
You are the definition of heresy. Again, Christianity is born out of Judaism ✡️ not the other way around. Also I am of the Messianic faith, not the Christian faith.
Shalom
 
I do not mean to burst your bubble, but the creeds of the ecumenical councils are the very DEFINITION of "orthodoxy" ... so for you to refer to "orthodox creeds" as "your own heresy" merely reveals that you have no idea what words mean.

[Merriam Webster Dictionary]
dogma:​
2: a doctrine or body of doctrines concerning faith or morals formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by a church​
heresy:​
1a: adherence to a religious opinion contrary to church dogma (see dogma sense 2)​
1b: denial of a revealed truth by a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church
1c: an opinion or doctrine contrary to church dogma​
orthodox:​
1a: conforming to established doctrine especially in religion​

Are you denying that Christ was both fully God and fully man?
If so, then which attribute are you denying, his deity or his humanity?
Or are you advocating for a 50/50 split ... Jesus the Dermigod (like Hercules)?


You are the one that has claimed the Athanasian Creed to be "heresy":

He is God from the essence of the Father, begotten before time; and he is human from the essence of his mother, born in time; completely God, completely human, with a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as regards divinity, less than the Father as regards humanity. Although he is God and human, yet Christ is not two, but one. He is one, however, not by his divinity being turned into flesh, but by God's taking humanity to himself. He is one, certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of his person. For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh, so too the one Christ is both God and human. - Athanasian Creed

That did not seem very "peaceful" ... your "Shalom" seems insincere.


Likewise, this post seemed not very "peaceful" and the "Shalom" felt insincere.
You do know that not a single creed in church history is inspired by God and is authoritative like Scripture.

Sola Scripture remember:)
 
You do know that not a single creed in church history is inspired by God and is authoritative like Scripture.

Sola Scripture remember:)
Absolutely. However the English words "orthodox" and "heretic" and "heterodox" have real and specific meanings.

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that's all.”
- (Lewis Carroll's "Through the Looking-Glass")​

So something can be ORTHODOX (like the perpetual virginity of Mary) and still be extra-biblical (not found in the bible), or HETERODOX (like Credobaptism) and be supported by scripture but not church dogma.

Yet the perpetual virginity is still "orthodox" and credobaptism is still not "orthodox" and neither view is "heretical" (which typically requires clear contradiction by scripture). Denying that Jesus was God is "heretical" since it contradicts both "orthodox" dogma and "scripture".
 
Absolutely. However the English words "orthodox" and "heretic" and "heterodox" have real and specific meanings.

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that's all.”
- (Lewis Carroll's "Through the Looking-Glass")​

So something can be ORTHODOX (like the perpetual virginity of Mary) and still be extra-biblical (not found in the bible), or HETERODOX (like Credobaptism) and be supported by scripture but not church dogma.

Yet the perpetual virginity is still "orthodox" and credobaptism is still not "orthodox" and neither view is "heretical" (which typically requires clear contradiction by scripture). Denying that Jesus was God is "heretical" since it contradicts both "orthodox" dogma and "scripture".
Not so much. Find some better use of your time.
Shalom
 
You the cultic ignorant person who ignores history. The Bible is a Jewish ✡️ book, not a Gentile book. All the writers were Jewish ✡️ not Gentiles. Jesus was an observant Jew ✡️ not a Gentile. All his disciples were Jews ✡️. Salvation is of the Jews ✡️ not Gentiles.
Your Christianity was born out of Judaism ✡️ probably my guess is when the second Temple was destroyed in 70 AD. I find some evangelical Christians are really ignorant of the Old and New Covenant and how they are connected. It would be to your advantage to study Church history and Biblical history to understand why you are so misguided in your thinking.
Shalom Aleichem
Obviously you need to study and understand the foundation of the New Covenant. I know it was prophesied in Jeremiah 31, but it actually began with the birth of Jesus. Yes, Jesus was the seed of Abraham and I honor Abraham as the father of those who have faith in God.

I don't deny the rich Jewish history of Christ, but once Christ came, the "Jewishness" takes a back seat to Christ Himself. That's the whole message given to Peter, James and John on the Mt. of Transfiguration. Matthew 17:1-8 Moses represented the Law, Elijah represented the Prophets (which essentially is the entire Old Testament), and Jesus represented the New Covenant. In that passage the Father tells Peter, James, and John: "This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; LISTEN TO HIM!"

The Father is not telling them to set aside the Old Testament, or to reject it (because we still receive great instruction from it), but He is telling them that JESUS is the emphasis now, not the Old Testament. Christianity started when Christ was born, although it wasn't called that until Acts 11:26: "the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch." Christianity is simply the belief of those who follow Jesus' life and teachings.

The reason I call you cultic is simple: When I compare the teachings of Jesus, Paul, and all the other New Testament authors to your "teaching" and your words - they are not even similar, let alone the same. You don't sound like any of the New Testament writers. You sound like a confused Jewish "Rabbi" who is stuck in the past, who elevates his Jewishness over Jesus Himself and His life-changing teachings.

Listen to the words of Paul: "By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, ..." Ephesians 3:4-6

Your message is the Jews, the Jews, the Jews and NOT the Gentiles, NOT the Gentiles, NOT the Gentiles.
Judaism is just as cultic today as Islam or Buddhism or Mormonism.
It would be like an American who becomes a Christian - and all they can talk about is America and Americans and American history and American traditions, etc., etc.
The message of the New Covenant is Jesus, Jesus, Jesus - NOT the old wineskins (Jewish culture, traditions and rabbinic teaching), NOT Moses, NOT Elijah, NOT the Law.
 
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I don't place much trust or interest in Christian creeds. Yeshua was an observant Jew ✡️ not a Christian.
Shalom

Was Yeshua the "Christ"? Messiah?

You do realize that Peter sanctioned the use of the word "Christian" right?

1Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

You really shouldn't do this if you're going to "praise God" for being a Christian.

Are you going to obey Peter?
 
I wouldn't talk about knowing the Hebrew language when you can't even recognize that Paul isn't a Hebrew name.....
Do you know why Paul used Paul.... when he was born as Saul? NO... it was not changed on the road to Damascus....
Initially Paul used both names as needed.

Some trivia for y'all, if you did not know.

Long story short.

He chose to use his Hebrew name, Saul, until sometime after he began to believe in and preach Christ. After that time, as the apostle to the Gentiles.... , he used his Roman name, Paul. It made sense for Paul to use his Roman name as he traveled farther and farther into the Gentile world.

Romans 11:13 confirms....But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry.

Paul began using his Roman name on Cyprus when the Roman proconsul on that island was converted
Acts 13:12 Then the proconsul believed when he saw what had happened, being amazed at the teaching of the Lord.

And a very great feat as this was during Paul’s first mission and the proconsul was a high-ranking, idolatrous Gentile coming to faith in Christ.

Using his Roman name was fitting for the man who proclaimed that he would become “all things to all people,”

1 Cor 9
19For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more.

20To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;

21to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

22To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.

23I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

But he never fully gave up Saul. And Jesus did not rename him like he did Simon into Peter.
 
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Obviously you need to study and understand the foundation of the New Covenant. I know it was prophesied in Jeremiah 31, but it actually began with the birth of Jesus. Yes, Jesus was the seed of Abraham and I honor Abraham as the father of those who have faith in God.

I don't deny the rich Jewish history of Christ, but once Christ came, the "Jewishness" takes a back seat to Christ Himself. That's the whole message given to Peter, James and John on the Mt. of Transfiguration. Matthew 17:1-8 Moses represented the Law, Elijah represented the Prophets (which essentially is the entire Old Testament), and Jesus represented the New Covenant. In that passage the Father tells Peter, James, and John: "This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; LISTEN TO HIM!"

The Father is not telling them to set aside the Old Testament, or to reject it (because we still receive great instruction from it), but He is telling them that JESUS is the emphasis now, not the Old Testament. Christianity started when Christ was born, although it wasn't called that until Acts 11:26: "the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch." Christianity is simply the belief of those who follow Jesus' life and teachings.

The reason I call you cultic is simple: When I compare the teachings of Jesus, Paul, and all the other New Testament authors to your "teaching" and your words - they are not even similar, let alone the same. You don't sound like any of the New Testament writers. You sound like a confused Jewish "Rabbi" who is stuck in the past, who elevates his Jewishness over Jesus Himself and His life-changing teachings.

Listen to the words of Paul: "By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, ..." Ephesians 3:4-6

Your message is the Jews, the Jews, the Jews and NOT the Gentiles, NOT the Gentiles, NOT the Gentiles.
Judaism is just as cultic today as Islam or Buddhism or Mormonism.
It would be like an American who becomes a Christian - and all they can talk about is America and Americans and American history and American traditions, etc., etc.
The message of the New Covenant is Jesus, Jesus, Jesus - NOT the old wineskins (Jewish culture, traditions and rabbinic teaching), NOT Moses, NOT Elijah, NOT the Law.
First of all Jewishness never takes a backseat, because the Jewish people are God's chosen. It is the personality and purpose in the Scriptures. Messianic Jewishism started when Christ was born and later spread to the Gentiles via Rabbi Paul. Remember Gentile Christians are grafted in. They are not the tree. That belongs to Israel and the believing Jews. So you are wrong on that and almost everything you have posted.
I believe with the 32 Baskin Robbins flavors of Christian denominations and their sexual/abuse scandals your group are the cults. You are very antisemitic. But that doesn't surprise me you people have been that way a very long time. Like I said before, the entire Bible which includes the תנך Tanakh (Old Covenant) and the Brit Chadasha (בְּרִית חֲדָשָׁה) (New Covenant) is a Jewish book, not a Gentile Book. What part of that do you not understand with your antisemitic mind? The message in the New Covenant is that now there is a new heavenly high priest in "Yeshua HaMashiach" (יֵשׁוּעַ הַמָּשִׁיחַ) not an earthly priest as before.
Why don't you enjoy your antisemitic day and have a ham sandwich!

Shalom שלום
 
Obviously you need to study and understand the foundation of the New Covenant. I know it was prophesied in Jeremiah 31, but it actually began with the birth of Jesus. Yes, Jesus was the seed of Abraham and I honor Abraham as the father of those who have faith in God.

I don't deny the rich Jewish history of Christ, but once Christ came, the "Jewishness" takes a back seat to Christ Himself. That's the whole message given to Peter, James and John on the Mt. of Transfiguration. Matthew 17:1-8 Moses represented the Law, Elijah represented the Prophets (which essentially is the entire Old Testament), and Jesus represented the New Covenant. In that passage the Father tells Peter, James, and John: "This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; LISTEN TO HIM!"

The Father is not telling them to set aside the Old Testament, or to reject it (because we still receive great instruction from it), but He is telling them that JESUS is the emphasis now, not the Old Testament. Christianity started when Christ was born, although it wasn't called that until Acts 11:26: "the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch." Christianity is simply the belief of those who follow Jesus' life and teachings.

The reason I call you cultic is simple: When I compare the teachings of Jesus, Paul, and all the other New Testament authors to your "teaching" and your words - they are not even similar, let alone the same. You don't sound like any of the New Testament writers. You sound like a confused Jewish "Rabbi" who is stuck in the past, who elevates his Jewishness over Jesus Himself and His life-changing teachings.

Listen to the words of Paul: "By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, ..." Ephesians 3:4-6

Your message is the Jews, the Jews, the Jews and NOT the Gentiles, NOT the Gentiles, NOT the Gentiles.
Judaism is just as cultic today as Islam or Buddhism or Mormonism.
It would be like an American who becomes a Christian - and all they can talk about is America and Americans and American history and American traditions, etc., etc.
The message of the New Covenant is Jesus, Jesus, Jesus - NOT the old wineskins (Jewish culture, traditions and rabbinic teaching), NOT Moses, NOT Elijah, NOT the Law.
The Means By Which God Signed His Covenants
The truth about the Word "Memra" (ממרא) is that it was the means by which God signed His covenants. In the Hebrew Bible,
God made eight specific covenants. Three were made with humanity in general. These are the Edenic Covenant, the Adamic
Covenant, and the Noahic Covenant. Five were made specifically with the Jewish people. These are the Abrahamic Covenant,
the Mosaic Covenant, the Land Covenant, the Davidic Covenant, and the New Covenant. All eight covenants were signed and
sealed by means of His Memra, by means of His Word.

The Gospel of John hints at this fact in Chapter 1 verse 17; For the law (Torah) was given through Mosheh; grace and truth came through Yeshua the Messiah. Biblically, human history can be described in terms of ages, or dispensations, and these
dispensations correspond with God's covenants. The age, or dispensation, of the law (Torah) was based on the Mosaic Covenant,
which was signed and sealed by the Shechinah glory, described in Exodus 24:1-18. The new age or the dispensation of grace
is based upon the New Covenant, which was signed and sealed by the shedding of Messiah's blood when He died on the cross.
One of the many things He accomplished through His death was the signing and sealing of the New Covenant (Luke 22:20;
Heb. 8:1-10:18), In that sense, He is also a covenant signer.

Shalom
 
Do you know why Paul used Paul.... when he was born as Saul? NO... it was not changed on the road to Damascus....
Initially Paul used both names as needed.


Ah. I suppose you're one of those people that claim to be a Jew. I see these arguments from time to time from them. @jeremiah1five makes these types of arguments.

I happen to believe Luke knew Paul better than you do. Luke was a Gentile. Does that bother you too?
 
First of all Jewishness never takes a backseat, because the Jewish people are God's chosen.

Have you invited friends here?

What makes you "Jewish". We can revisit this. It would be good for you to do this since you're promoting your ethnicity above others that God loves. How "unoriginal".

Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

This isn't anything new. In Revelation you have a Jewish writer recognizing that not all those claiming to be Jews are actually Jews.
 
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Some trivia for y'all, if you did not know.

Long story short.

I love trivia.

He chose to use his Hebrew name, Saul, until sometime after he began to believe in and preach Christ. After that time, as the apostle to the Gentiles.... , he used his Roman name, Paul. It made sense for Paul to use his Roman name as he traveled farther and farther into the Gentile world.

Romans 11:13 confirms....But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry.

Paul began using his Roman name on Cyprus when the Roman proconsul on that island was converted
Acts 13:12 Then the proconsul believed when he saw what had happened, being amazed at the teaching of the Lord.

I agree that Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles. He didn't need a Gentile name to preach Christ. You're bringing supposition into the argument from your bias. Did Phillip need a Gentile name when he preached to that poor "idolatrous" Gentile in Acts 8?

I'll let you think about it. I'll not hold my breath until you answer.

And a very great feat as this was during Paul’s first mission and the proconsul was a high-ranking, idolatrous Gentile coming to faith in Christ.

Oh. Like those "Jews" that took up the "star of Remphan"? Your ancestor is full of idolatry.

Act 7:43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

Real Jews like Stephen admit their failure. Fake Jews deny them and pretend they never happened. Good thing that Gentile Luke knew Paul.
 
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I don't deny the rich Jewish history of Christ, but once Christ came, the "Jewishness" takes a back seat to Christ Himself.

Christ is the second Adam. Not the second Abraham. His Father is different. He is not distinctly of the ancestry of Abraham.

It is why Jesus said very clearly.... "Before Abraham was, I AM".

You would think a true follower of Christ would honor Christ above Abraham.
 
Ah. I suppose you're one of those people that claim to be a Jew. I see these arguments from time to time from them. @jeremiah1five makes these types of arguments.

I happen to believe Luke knew Paul better than you do. Luke was a Gentile. Does that bother you too?
Luke was mixed race. He was not wholly non-Hebrew. He was mixed race. The centurions in the gospel were also mixed race. The Samaritan woman at the well was mixed race. And by virtue of being of the DNA of Abraham they were heirs to the promise.

Christians follow Christ. If Christ called Saul by his Hebrew name, then as a follower so do I.

That's it. Case closed.
 
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