atpollard
Active Member
You say "shalom" but you mean "shalom ve lo lehitraot".
"Shalom" (goodbye) carries a dishonest connotation to the rest of your message.
Judaism is very messy.....
- Thread starter praise_yeshua
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"Shalom" (goodbye) carries a dishonest connotation to the rest of your message.
atpollard
Active Member
The Catholic Church definition of the term was not applicable to this conversation ... this is not a Catholic Forum, so violating the teaching of the magisterium is not "heresy". One is not required to believe in the assumption of the Blessed Virgin or Purgatory on "Berean Apologetics Ministries" to avoid being declared a heretic by the RCC. It was included, because it is definition 1b in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary that I was quoting and definitions 1a and 1c were applicable.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Mine is not a final goodbye unless I put you on ignore.
Shalom
civic
Active Member
You do know that not a single creed in church history is inspired by God and is authoritative like Scripture.
Sola Scripture remember
atpollard
Active Member
Absolutely. However the English words "orthodox" and "heretic" and "heterodox" have real and specific meanings.You do know that not a single creed in church history is inspired by God and is authoritative like Scripture.
Sola Scripture remember
“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that's all.”
- (Lewis Carroll's "Through the Looking-Glass")
So something can be ORTHODOX (like the perpetual virginity of Mary) and still be extra-biblical (not found in the bible), or HETERODOX (like Credobaptism) and be supported by scripture but not church dogma.
Yet the perpetual virginity is still "orthodox" and credobaptism is still not "orthodox" and neither view is "heretical" (which typically requires clear contradiction by scripture). Denying that Jesus was God is "heretical" since it contradicts both "orthodox" dogma and "scripture".
Not so much. Find some better use of your time.
Shalom
dwight92070
Active Member
Obviously you need to study and understand the foundation of the New Covenant. I know it was prophesied in Jeremiah 31, but it actually began with the birth of Jesus. Yes, Jesus was the seed of Abraham and I honor Abraham as the father of those who have faith in God.You the cultic ignorant person who ignores history. The Bible is a Jewishbook, not a Gentile book. All the writers were Jewish
Your Christianity was born out of Judaism
Shalom Aleichem
I don't deny the rich Jewish history of Christ, but once Christ came, the "Jewishness" takes a back seat to Christ Himself. That's the whole message given to Peter, James and John on the Mt. of Transfiguration. Matthew 17:1-8 Moses represented the Law, Elijah represented the Prophets (which essentially is the entire Old Testament), and Jesus represented the New Covenant. In that passage the Father tells Peter, James, and John: "This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; LISTEN TO HIM!"
The Father is not telling them to set aside the Old Testament, or to reject it (because we still receive great instruction from it), but He is telling them that JESUS is the emphasis now, not the Old Testament. Christianity started when Christ was born, although it wasn't called that until Acts 11:26: "the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch." Christianity is simply the belief of those who follow Jesus' life and teachings.
The reason I call you cultic is simple: When I compare the teachings of Jesus, Paul, and all the other New Testament authors to your "teaching" and your words - they are not even similar, let alone the same. You don't sound like any of the New Testament writers. You sound like a confused Jewish "Rabbi" who is stuck in the past, who elevates his Jewishness over Jesus Himself and His life-changing teachings.
Listen to the words of Paul: "By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, ..." Ephesians 3:4-6
Your message is the Jews, the Jews, the Jews and NOT the Gentiles, NOT the Gentiles, NOT the Gentiles.
Judaism is just as cultic today as Islam or Buddhism or Mormonism.
It would be like an American who becomes a Christian - and all they can talk about is America and Americans and American history and American traditions, etc., etc.
The message of the New Covenant is Jesus, Jesus, Jesus - NOT the old wineskins (Jewish culture, traditions and rabbinic teaching), NOT Moses, NOT Elijah, NOT the Law.
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praise_yeshua
Active Member
I wouldn't talk about knowing the Hebrew language when you can't even recognize that Paul isn't a Hebrew name.....
praise_yeshua
Active Member
I don't place much trust or interest in Christian creeds. Yeshua was an observant Jew
Shalom
Was Yeshua the "Christ"? Messiah?
You do realize that Peter sanctioned the use of the word "Christian" right?
1Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
You really shouldn't do this if you're going to "praise God" for being a Christian.
Are you going to obey Peter?
praise_yeshua
Active Member
I do this too........
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Do you know why Paul used Paul.... when he was born as Saul? NO... it was not changed on the road to Damascus....
Initially Paul used both names as needed.
Some trivia for y'all, if you did not know.
Long story short.
He chose to use his Hebrew name, Saul, until sometime after he began to believe in and preach Christ. After that time, as the apostle to the Gentiles.... , he used his Roman name, Paul. It made sense for Paul to use his Roman name as he traveled farther and farther into the Gentile world.
Romans 11:13 confirms....But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry.
Paul began using his Roman name on Cyprus when the Roman proconsul on that island was converted
Acts 13:12 Then the proconsul believed when he saw what had happened, being amazed at the teaching of the Lord.
And a very great feat as this was during Paul’s first mission and the proconsul was a high-ranking, idolatrous Gentile coming to faith in Christ.
Using his Roman name was fitting for the man who proclaimed that he would become “all things to all people,”
1 Cor 9
19For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more.
20To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;
21to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.
22To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.
23I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
But he never fully gave up Saul. And Jesus did not rename him like he did Simon into Peter.
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The Means By Which God Signed His Covenants
The truth about the Word "Memra" (ממרא) is that it was the means by which God signed His covenants. In the Hebrew Bible,
God made eight specific covenants. Three were made with humanity in general. These are the Edenic Covenant, the Adamic
Covenant, and the Noahic Covenant. Five were made specifically with the Jewish people. These are the Abrahamic Covenant,
the Mosaic Covenant, the Land Covenant, the Davidic Covenant, and the New Covenant. All eight covenants were signed and
sealed by means of His Memra, by means of His Word.
The Gospel of John hints at this fact in Chapter 1 verse 17; For the law (Torah) was given through Mosheh; grace and truth came through Yeshua the Messiah. Biblically, human history can be described in terms of ages, or dispensations, and these
dispensations correspond with God's covenants. The age, or dispensation, of the law (Torah) was based on the Mosaic Covenant,
which was signed and sealed by the Shechinah glory, described in Exodus 24:1-18. The new age or the dispensation of grace
is based upon the New Covenant, which was signed and sealed by the shedding of Messiah's blood when He died on the cross.
One of the many things He accomplished through His death was the signing and sealing of the New Covenant (Luke 22:20;
Heb. 8:1-10:18), In that sense, He is also a covenant signer.
Shalom
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Ah. I suppose you're one of those people that claim to be a Jew. I see these arguments from time to time from them. @jeremiah1five makes these types of arguments.
I happen to believe Luke knew Paul better than you do. Luke was a Gentile. Does that bother you too?
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Have you invited friends here?
What makes you "Jewish". We can revisit this. It would be good for you to do this since you're promoting your ethnicity above others that God loves. How "unoriginal".
Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
This isn't anything new. In Revelation you have a Jewish writer recognizing that not all those claiming to be Jews are actually Jews.
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praise_yeshua
Active Member
I love trivia.
I agree that Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles. He didn't need a Gentile name to preach Christ. You're bringing supposition into the argument from your bias. Did Phillip need a Gentile name when he preached to that poor "idolatrous" Gentile in Acts 8?
I'll let you think about it. I'll not hold my breath until you answer.
Oh. Like those "Jews" that took up the "star of Remphan"? Your ancestor is full of idolatry.
Act 7:43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.
Real Jews like Stephen admit their failure. Fake Jews deny them and pretend they never happened. Good thing that Gentile Luke knew Paul.
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praise_yeshua
Active Member
Christ is the second Adam. Not the second Abraham. His Father is different. He is not distinctly of the ancestry of Abraham.
It is why Jesus said very clearly.... "Before Abraham was, I AM".
You would think a true follower of Christ would honor Christ above Abraham.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Luke was mixed race. He was not wholly non-Hebrew. He was mixed race. The centurions in the gospel were also mixed race. The Samaritan woman at the well was mixed race. And by virtue of being of the DNA of Abraham they were heirs to the promise.
Christians follow Christ. If Christ called Saul by his Hebrew name, then as a follower so do I.
That's it. Case closed.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
The entire world is a "mixed" race from the sole parentage of Adam and Eve. You included. Me included.
There isn't a "pure race" upon this earthy. All have been concluded under sin and we prove over and over most every day of our lives.
So stop this nonsense theology you're peddling. Our fathers failed us. Christ didn't.
This is of the utmost importance.
dwight92070
Active Member
Koberstein said: "When the partition in the Temple was torn in two during Messiah"s crucifixion that allowed the Jews to approach God without going through an earthly high priest. Because now we have a new high priest in Yeshua Hamashiach."
Surprise! He is also the high priest of all Gentile believers, since He died for the sins of the whole world, not just those of the Jews. 1 John 2:2
You are anti-Gentile, whereas Paul wanted to see the Gentiles saved. And when they did get saved, He didn't lambast them and falsely accuse them of hating Jews, like you are. In fact, Paul condemned the anti-Gentile attitude among the believing Jews in Romans 2:17-29.
"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God."
So according to Paul, I am a Jew, and so are all believers born of the Spirit.
Also, according to Paul, a Jew who is not born of the Spirit, is not a Jew at all.
I am not anti-Jew, but I am anti - your attitude toward Gentiles, especially believing Gentiles.
Of course there are people who hate Jews. There are also people who hate Christians. As Christians, we are not to hate anyone. Jewish Christians should not hate Gentile Christians and Gentile Christians should not hate Jewish Christians, since both have been born of the Holy Spirit.
Surprise! He is also the high priest of all Gentile believers, since He died for the sins of the whole world, not just those of the Jews. 1 John 2:2
You are anti-Gentile, whereas Paul wanted to see the Gentiles saved. And when they did get saved, He didn't lambast them and falsely accuse them of hating Jews, like you are. In fact, Paul condemned the anti-Gentile attitude among the believing Jews in Romans 2:17-29.
"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God."
So according to Paul, I am a Jew, and so are all believers born of the Spirit.
Also, according to Paul, a Jew who is not born of the Spirit, is not a Jew at all.
I am not anti-Jew, but I am anti - your attitude toward Gentiles, especially believing Gentiles.
Of course there are people who hate Jews. There are also people who hate Christians. As Christians, we are not to hate anyone. Jewish Christians should not hate Gentile Christians and Gentile Christians should not hate Jewish Christians, since both have been born of the Holy Spirit.
