Judaism is very messy.....

[praise_yeshua]

You're still not distinguishing between true and false Judaism.

It would be like judging Christianity by the Crusades or something.

I judge Christianity by the Scriptures. I judge Judaism by the Scriptures.

No. I will not accept your false doctrine that salvation exists in Judaism. Many claiming Christianity will die without Christ. The same is true of Judaism.

There is only ONE who saves. The sole heir of Abraham. Jesus Christ.

Which is a fact that all those practicing Judaism reject. They claim to be heirs of Abraham when there is only ONE heir. Jesus Christ. We are "joint heirs" in Jesus Christ alone.

Learn your Gospel.

 

[Dizerner]

Do you reject two dispensations or two covenants?

Is it your assertion that, for example, Moses and David did not practice Judaism?

Do you think Moses and David knew the name "Jesus Christ"?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Do you reject two dispensations or two covenants?

Is it your assertion that, for example, Moses and David did not practice Judaism?

Do you think Moses and David knew the name "Jesus Christ"?

Dispensations nor covenants have anything to do with this.

Are there two Judaisms?

Judaism does not have a covenant.

 

[Dizerner]

Yes, I really think you are using a secular definition of Judaism, rather than the Biblical one, there most certainly are two definitions and one is false.

Modern Judaism is a false reinterpretation that lowers and subjects Scripture to tradition.

Biblical Judaism is the Old Covenant, the monotheistic faith of the Old Testament.

Britannica defines it as:

Judaism: The monotheistic religion developed among the ancient Hebrews. Judaism is characterized by a belief in one transcendent God who revealed himself to Abraham, Moses, and the Hebrew prophets and by a religious life in accordance with Scriptures and rabbinic traditions.​

Since Scripture condemns rabbinic traditions, the last two are logical contradictory and incompatible beliefs.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, I really think you are using a secular definition of Judaism, rather than the Biblical one, there most certainly are two definitions and one is false.

Modern Judaism is a false reinterpretation that lowers and subjects Scripture to tradition.

Biblical Judaism is the Old Covenant, the monotheistic faith of the Old Testament.

Britannica defines it as:

Judaism: The monotheistic religion developed among the ancient Hebrews. Judaism is characterized by a belief in one transcendent God who revealed himself to Abraham, Moses, and the Hebrew prophets and by a religious life in accordance with Scriptures and rabbinic traditions.​

Since Scripture condemns rabbinic traditions, the last two are logical contradictory and incompatible beliefs.

So when you can't make your argument from the Scriptures you run to secular sources? Do you really want me to care what a secular source has to say about this? I know more than they know about it.

You're conflating and they are conflating. Covenants are about people. Not secular understanding of religions. The people of God have been same from the beginning. There is only one PERSON.... that is the heir of all things. John the Beloved made this clear.....

1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

Do you see that phrase "from the beginning"?

Christ is the "Lamb" slain from the foundation of the world. The only Eternal Heir of God that became flesh and died for humanity.

This is about people. Learn your Gospel.

There isn't anyone here that can discuss this with me. Go find your "rabbi" (since you're a perfect jew) and have them come and make this argument for you. You are incapable of dealing with this.

 

[Dizerner]

So when you can't make your argument from the Scriptures you run to secular sources?

This makes no sense. I overtly condemned the secular source and gave a Biblical definition.

It's misrepresenting what I said and is illogical nonsense.

Do you really want me to care what a secular source has to say about this? I know more than they know about it.

This is not about making you "care" about something, I am making logical arguments about false definitions.

Please don't use red herrings.

You're conflating and they are conflating... There isn't anyone here that can discuss this with me. Go find your "rabbi" (since you're a perfect jew) and have them come and make this argument for you. You are incapable of dealing with this.

You're literally just saying illogical nonsense that has nothing to do with what I said.

I can't respond to complete made-up misrepresentation and gibberish.

 

[praise_yeshua]

This makes no sense. I overtly condemned the secular source and gave a Biblical definition.

It's misrepresenting what I said and is illogical nonsense.

No. I'm not. If it didn't mean anything, then why in the world did you include it. I didn't include it because it doesn't mean anything. It means something to you. YOU are being dishonest with the information and with your intent.

This is not about making you "care" about something, I am making logical arguments about false definitions.

Please don't use red herrings.

You don't get to include nonsense and then claim a "red herring". You included it. I dealt with it. If it doesn't mean anything, then don't include it.

You're literally just saying illogical nonsense that has nothing to do with what I said.

I can't respond to complete made-up misrepresentation and gibberish.

You live in your own little world where you are the standard. I live in a world where the Scriptures are the standard. I made arguments you can't defeat..... so you claim I'm full of "gibberish".

I can do the same... You're comments are gibberish. I can't make sense of them......

Now, I admit. That was a lie. I lied just now. I did so to show you how this common debate tactic is just that..... a debate tactic. NOTHING MORE. What I said was clear and meaningful.

Since you claim I'm "spouting" (my word) gibberish.... I insist that you quote every word I write. Every word. You are being intellectually dishonest by selectively quoting me above. Stop it.

 

[David Koberstein]

I still think we need to differentiate between true and false Judaism and not lump them both in the same category.

Yes, there are differences between the 4 groups of Judaism . Just as there are differences between the 200+ Christian denominations.
Shalom

I still think we need to differentiate between true and false Judaism and not lump them both in the same category.

 

[David Koberstein]

Yes, I really think you are using a secular definition of Judaism, rather than the Biblical one, there most certainly are two definitions and one is false.

Modern Judaism is a false reinterpretation that lowers and subjects Scripture to tradition.

Biblical Judaism is the Old Covenant, the monotheistic faith of the Old Testament.

Britannica defines it as:

Judaism: The monotheistic religion developed among the ancient Hebrews. Judaism is characterized by a belief in one transcendent God who revealed himself to Abraham, Moses, and the Hebrew prophets and by a religious life in accordance with Scriptures and rabbinic traditions.​

Since Scripture condemns rabbinic traditions, the last two are logical contradictory and incompatible beliefs.

There is no secular form of Judaism. There are traditions in Christian denominations that violate Scripture.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, there are differences between the 4 groups of Judaism . Just as there are differences between the 200+ Christian denominations.
Shalom

Notice the "wording" above..... "4 groups". Self serving nonsense.....

There are more than just 4 sects of Judaism.....There have always been. Just like Christians, Judaism devours their own. They can't stand and actually hate one another.

 

[praise_yeshua]

There is no secular form of Judaism. There are traditions in Christian denominations that violate Scripture.

Can you believe this guy?????

No secular Judaism. Ask an Ultra Orthodox Jew this........

Ask him about "Kabbalah"...... He doesn't obviously know but ask him.....

 

[Dizerner]

There is no secular form of Judaism. There are traditions in Christian denominations that violate Scripture.

This is peculiar.

Do you see all 4 groups of Judaism (whatever your criteria is) as in complete agreement on both essentials and the NT faith?

For clarification.

 

[Dizerner]

You don't get to include nonsense and then claim a "red herring".

You deliberately and specifically implied I was trying to get you to "care" about something.

I was not.

So you were dishonest about my intentions.

 

[David Koberstein]

This is peculiar.

Do you see all 4 groups of Judaism (whatever your criteria is) as in complete agreement on both essentials and the NT faith?

For clarification.

Only the Messianic mirrors the essentials and the New Covenant faith.
Just because you have 2 floors in a home doesn't mean you negate or destroy the first floor so to speak. Besides you can't have a second floor without the first floor.
Shalom

 

[Dizerner]

Only the Messianic mirrors the essentials and the New Covenant faith.
Just because you have 2 floors in a home doesn't mean you negate or destroy the first floor so to speak. Besides you can't have a second floor without the first floor.
Shalom

As long as none of the floors contain a direct contradiction of course.

Christ does make many exclusive claims that many branches of Judaism overtly deny.

 

[David Koberstein]

As long as none of the floors contain a direct contradiction of course.

Christ does make many exclusive claims that many branches of Judaism overtly deny.

The Judaism recognized Yeshua as a rabbi, prophet, but not Lord or God. Because in the decalogue the very first commandment is "Thou shalt have no other gods before me"
The best way to witness to a Jew is through the Old Covenant.
Shalom

 

[Dizerner]

The best way to witness to a Jew is through the Old Covenant.
Shalom

Completely agree!

 

[praise_yeshua]

You deliberately and specifically implied I was trying to get you to "care" about something.

I was not.

So you were dishonest about my intentions.

No. I didn't. Care is a reference to "value". My comments relative to care is a reference to the value of the information your provided from a secular source.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Completely agree!

No doubt you agree. You're first and foremost a dispensationalist. That is what you value.

However, you're wrong. You know why I know you're wrong? I know the Scriptures.

I have the example of better men than any of us today...... Paul did not do what you do.

Act 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

There is not preaching whatsoever of the Gospel without the Christ. You are dealing with PEOPLE that prefer you preach Moses.........

They don't want to hear about Christ at all.

 

[Dizerner]

26 "Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?"
27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself. (Lk. 24:26-27 NKJ)