John Piper: Born again through faith in the gospel

The audience is Old Covenant saints dealing with the covenant which was to come. Pretty simple for most.
Which proves that their obedience/faith preceded the future prophesied new heart. IOW, belief precedes regeneration. Calvinism just simply disintegrated right before your very eyes. It will be interesting to see how a calvinist can possibly deny this Biblical truth.
 
Which proves that their obedience/faith preceded the future prophesied new heart. IOW, belief precedes regeneration. Calvinism just simply disintegrated right before your very eyes. It will be interesting to see how a calvinist can possibly deny this Biblical truth.
No kidding. LOL Unfortunately for you thats not how it works now. Lost again
 
I said that where?
So then you do like the fact that Ez 36 has the OT believers' obedience/faith preceding the future prophesied new heart for all believers. IOW, belief precedes regeneration. Calvinism disintegrated again right before your very eyes.
 
I disagree.

But YOUR faith does obligate to act.
No, God is not obligated by my faith; he is obligated by his promise to act when we place our faith in him to do what he promised. The promise comes first; that’s Paul’s whole premise in Romans.

Doug
 
So then you do like the fact that Ez 36 has the OT believers' obedience/faith preceding the future prophesied new heart for all believers. IOW, belief precedes regeneration. Calvinism disintegrated again right before your very eyes.
Do I did not say what you claimed then.

Wrong. It's prophecy concerning the NC. In Ezekiel 36 the new heart precedes obedience. READ IT AGAIN genius.

Wrong. Old Testament Saints were regenerated.
 
No, God is not obligated by my faith; he is obligated by his promise to act when we place our faith in him to do what he promised. The promise comes first; that’s Paul’s whole premise in Romans.

Doug
It's YOUR faith remember?

In our system God is not obligated because He gifts faith to whomever He likes. Whomever He, by His grace, has chosen to save.
 
Do I did not say what you claimed then.

Wrong. It's prophecy concerning the NC. In Ezekiel 36 the new heart precedes obedience. READ IT AGAIN genius.

Wrong. Old Testament Saints were regenerated.
Ez 36 is declared a prophesy. So you're saying that prophesy, when declared in Ez 36, had already happened to OT Saints? So your definition of prophesies is a declaration of the past. LOL!

You are in need of an English dictionary, my friend.
 
Ez 36 is declared a prophesy. So you're saying that prophesy, when declared in Ez 36, had already happened to OT Saints? So your definition of prophesies is a declaration of the past. LOL!

You are in need of an English dictionary, my friend.
Wrong again. Christ was quite specific. "You must be born again". For what you ask? Good question. To see the kingdom of heaven. Do OT saints see the kingdom of heaven??
 
Wrong again.
Ez 36 is NOT wrong when it says that the new heart is a prophesy and not a past event as you're falsely declaring. The word prophesy is repeated 3 times in the first 6 verses. How many times do you need it repeated before you acknowledge it?

(Ez 36:1-6)
1 “And you, son of man, prophesy to the mountains of Israel, and say, ‘O mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord!
2 Thus says the Lord God: “Because the enemy has said of you, ‘Aha! The ancient heights have become our possession,’ ” ’
3 therefore prophesy, and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Because they made you desolate and swallowed you up on every side, so that you became the possession of the rest of the nations, and you are taken up by the lips of talkers and slandered by the people”—
4 therefore, O mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord God! Thus says the Lord God to the mountains, the hills, the rivers, the valleys, the desolate wastes, and the cities that have been forsaken, which became plunder and mockery to the rest of the nations all around—
5 therefore thus says the Lord God: “Surely I have spoken in My burning jealousy against the rest of the nations and against all Edom, who gave My land to themselves as a possession, with wholehearted joy and spiteful minds, in order to plunder its open country.” ’
6 “Therefore prophesy concerning the land of Israel, and say to the mountains, the hills, the rivers, and the valleys, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I have spoken in My jealousy and My fury, because you have borne the shame of the nations.”
Christ was quite specific. "You must be born again". For what you ask? Good question. To see the kingdom of heaven. Do OT saints see the kingdom of heaven??
So now you're running off to other verses because your false presuppositions were nailed to the wall in Ez 36. LOL!

Jesus' conversation with Nicodemos was to correctly teach Nicodemos on the fact that one must be born of water and Spirit before one can see the Kingdom of God. Where in the OT was anyone ever born of water and Spirit (regenerated)? Sorry, your false presuppositions do not carry the same authority as does the Bible.
 
Ez 36 is NOT wrong when it says that the new heart is a prophesy and not a past event as you're falsely declaring. The word prophesy is repeated 3 times in the first 6 verses. How many times do you need it repeated before you acknowledge it?

(Ez 36:1-6)
1 “And you, son of man, prophesy to the mountains of Israel, and say, ‘O mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord!
2 Thus says the Lord God: “Because the enemy has said of you, ‘Aha! The ancient heights have become our possession,’ ” ’
3 therefore prophesy, and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Because they made you desolate and swallowed you up on every side, so that you became the possession of the rest of the nations, and you are taken up by the lips of talkers and slandered by the people”—
4 therefore, O mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord God! Thus says the Lord God to the mountains, the hills, the rivers, the valleys, the desolate wastes, and the cities that have been forsaken, which became plunder and mockery to the rest of the nations all around—
5 therefore thus says the Lord God: “Surely I have spoken in My burning jealousy against the rest of the nations and against all Edom, who gave My land to themselves as a possession, with wholehearted joy and spiteful minds, in order to plunder its open country.” ’
6 “Therefore prophesy concerning the land of Israel, and say to the mountains, the hills, the rivers, and the valleys, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I have spoken in My jealousy and My fury, because you have borne the shame of the nations.”

So now you're running off to other verses because your false presuppositions were nailed to the wall in Ez 36. LOL!

Jesus' conversation with Nicodemos was to correctly teach Nicodemos on the fact that one must be born of water and Spirit before one can see the Kingdom of God. Where in the OT was anyone ever born of water and Spirit (regenerated)? Sorry, your false presuppositions do not carry the same authority as does the Bible.
Exactly. It's prophetic. Your catching on.

It actually says "you must be born again to see the kingdom of heaven". So are OT saints born again and see the kingdom of heaven? Simple yes or no question.
 
It's YOUR faith remember?

In our system God is not obligated because He gifts faith to whomever He likes. Whomever He, by His grace, has chosen to save.
And the biblical system is that God is not obligated because he is God and we are not; but he chooses to gift eternal life to “whoever believes” in his “one and only son” by whom he has shown his love to the world to which the son is given.

God promised, and Abraham believed! (It does not say that God gave belief to Abraham or caused him to believe, it simply says “Abraham believed” and thereby was accepted as righteous.) The promise comes first, belief in the promise is ours to enact.

Doug
 
@synergy
So now you're God's spokesman, telling us what God will do or not do. What happened to the Bible?
Every person teaching/preaching are in essence practicing this very thing, including you.
You still can't produce even one verse that explicitly demonstrates that regeneration precedes belief in Christ.
It's not that one cannot, the fault lies with men like you, who are so in loved with their golden calf of a work gospel, refuses to to hear the convincing arguments presented. Christ had the same problem with your father's as evidence by reading through the gospel, they cast the same in his teeth as you are doing, almost verbatim, and as you constantly do, it is your MO that you have in your DNA from your father's, the Pharisees.

If you truly understood John 3:1-8, along with an host of others scriptures, then you would not have any problem understanding that regeneration by the Spirit of the Living God "must" precede any spiritual acts pleasing to God, and even more than that, if you understood the reason why it was imperative for Christ to come into this world to be a surety for God's elect, then you would never fight against the only gospel that is of God, declaring the righteousness of God and how men are partakers of this righteousness by pure grace alone ~ it is hidden from your eyes, and rightly so. You and many others are going forth to establish your own righteousness, as though you have some, making void the only righteousness that God accepts before His law can pronounce "not guilty", you are freely justified by the faith, obedience, and righteousness of Jesus Christ, who hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree. Folks like you are guilty of:

Romans 10:3​

“....... ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.”
The Bible does that. I'm just the messenger.
That's called wishful thinking! And you certainly are not God messenger fighting against the doctrine of free grace. You have a gospel that proudly boast of being of works, and not of grace, and adding to that, gave your self a name to prove it, how much more should a person do to show others his true colors?

So, you say the bible bashes those that teaches the doctrines of free grace through Christ's faith and perfect obedience alone? For in essence that's the message of those men, whom folks call Calvinist, even though it is biblical, and way before John Calvin and any other uninspired man.

Matthew 11:25
“At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Would you called the Son of God a Calvinist by him preaching these words and many such words that flow from his mouth? Of course you would bash him just as your fathers did, you would do the same.
You don't understand or refuse to understand that God's preordained good works,
But I do! One must first be a child of God by election of grace, and THEN God ordained that we go forth and maintain good works which are produce by the new man within us that God created after the image of his Son ~ in the old Adam there is no good thing within him that is capable of doing spiritual works pleasing to God ~ as you and other wickedly and vainly teach

Romans 7:18​

“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.”
You're corrupting young minds, I see.
Mr. @synergy just making sure I get the truth to them before you wolves enter into the pictures so when you do come and you will in grey numbers and even greater as this world comes to its end, they will flee from you.

Btw, actually young minds are already corrupted by the fall of man, they come into this world with an nature that's at enmity against God and we spend our days fighting with that evil nature and it is no easy task teaching them the truth, but, it is the means God has ordained to cause them to come unto the knowledge of the truth by his grace alone, so, it is our duty before God, to teach them consistent godly living and by teaching them the word of God.

Just went though Romans 3 with them (four of 18) the last two nights, and you can be sure that I did not teach them your golden calf doctrine, I trust I grinded that calf to powder before their eyes, but probably not as much as I desire, since folks come forth from the womb, thinking that they are not that bad, and that they have some good in them whereby God is not that displeased with them. Teaching God's truth is a warfare even within our own family.

The Apostles called themselves Synergists in the Greek. Why do you continue to bad mouth them?
You love to dream, but as with all dreams you must wake up and face the truth, but you may never wake up from dreaming. You are guilty concerning what Paul said of the churches of Galatia:

Galatians 5:4​

“Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”

Meaning, from the doctrine of the true grace of God.

1st Peter 5:12​

“By Silvanus, a faithful brother unto you, as I suppose, I have written briefly, exhorting, and testifying that this is the true grace of God wherein ye stand.”
 
And the biblical system is that God is not obligated because he is God and we are not; but he chooses to gift eternal life to “whoever believes” in his “one and only son” by whom he has shown his love to the world to which the son is given.

God promised, and Abraham believed! (It does not say that God gave belief to Abraham or caused him to believe, it simply says “Abraham believed” and thereby was accepted as righteous.) The promise comes first, belief in the promise is ours to enact.

Doug
Sure it does. Philippians 1:29. God grants belief. It does not say with Abraham being the exception.

Faith is eternal life which as you said is gifted to you.
 
Exactly. It's prophetic. Your catching on.
You now agree that Ez 36 is prophetic for OT believers. Good! So which comes first for OT believers, their belief or the prophetic future fulfillment of a new heart?
It actually says "you must be born again to see the kingdom of heaven". So are OT saints born again and see the kingdom of heaven? Simple yes or no question.
No OT passage exists that explicitly says that any OT Saints was born again or regenerated. So my answer is that no Saint was ever born again or regenerated.
 
@synergy

Every person teaching/preaching are in essence practicing this very thing, including you.

It's not that one cannot, the fault lies with men like you, who are so in loved with their golden calf of a work gospel, refuses to to hear the convincing arguments presented. Christ had the same problem with your father's as evidence by reading through the gospel, they cast the same in his teeth as you are doing, almost verbatim, and as you constantly do, it is your MO that you have in your DNA from your father's, the Pharisees.
Stop slandering the words of James 2:24-26. Man is justified by faith and good works together. Also, faith without works is dead.

24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
If you truly understood John 3:1-8, along with an host of others scriptures, then you would not have any problem understanding that regeneration by the Spirit of the Living God "must" precede any spiritual acts pleasing to God, and even more than that, if you understood the reason why it was imperative for Christ to come into this world to be a surety for God's elect, then you would never fight against the only gospel that is of God, declaring the righteousness of God and how men are partakers of this righteousness by pure grace alone ~ it is hidden from your eyes, and rightly so. You and many others are going forth to establish your own righteousness, as though you have some, making void the only righteousness that God accepts before His law can pronounce "not guilty", you are freely justified by the faith, obedience, and righteousness of Jesus Christ, who hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree. Folks like you are guilty of:
There you go again denying Adam from entering the Kingdom of God because he was not born of a Mother. John emphatically said the following:

(John 3:5) Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

I'll let you break that awful news of yours to Adam and Eve.
 
@synergy
Stop slandering the words of James 2:24-26. Man is justified by faith and good works together. Also, faith without works is dead.

24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
You have no understanding of free justification by grace alone through the obedience of one person, Jesus Christ, for if you did, you would know exactly what James was teaching, but it is hidden from your eyes, and rightly so!

We ask you and others who may read this: "What justification is considered here? Our legal position before God, or our knowledge of it? Our legal position before God, or His declaration of it? Our legal position, or our assurance of it?"

These rhetorical questions (in these verses~24-26) indicate that this concept of justification by works should be easy to see.

True faith leads to works to please God, for faith believes God rewards diligent seekers (Hebrews 11:6). The faith of Abraham in Genesis 15:6 was made complete and true by his works in Genesis 22:12. Faith is dead and devilish without works; but it is complete or perfect by works, as with Abraham.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.​

What can we see from Abram’s history? The real evidence proving righteousness requires works.

What we see is that Genesis 15:6 is only part of the picture. It is incomplete without Gen 22:12! Those who cry, “Sola Fide,” and think that Genesis 15:6 is the end of justification are wrong.

Abraham’s subjective justification by faith was made complete or perfect by his further works.

Free Justification is being declared righteous by God: Abraham was declared so by faith and works, to those who knew him and to those who would hear of him through the written word of God.

So, we learn and confess ~ It is vain confidence to trust in some belief, decision, or profession of Jesus without good works.

Abram’s actual justification, or acceptance and acquittal with God, was without faith by Christ Alone! James did not teach justification by the works that Paul condemned~ we study to rightly divide the word of God, and practice Nehemiah 8:8, something that you would do well to do, but I'm beginning to think it is not in you to do this.

Paul rejected Jewish legalists and their trust in Moses’ law by teaching the historical fact of God’s declaration of Abraham’s righteousness by virtue of his great act of faith (Gen 15:6). James taught that any man’s faith without works was not nearly enough evidence or proof to claim righteousness, justification, or the hope of future glorification.

All this being said, it is very true that only those in the Spirit are capable of doing spiritual acts pleasing to God. Romans 7, 8.

Romans 7:18​

“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.”

Romans 8:8​

“So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”

When are you going to stop resisting the Holy Ghost's testimony concerning men in the flesh cannot please God, he must first be born of the Spirit of God before he can do spiritual acts pleasing to God. Even men still in the flesh, their prayers are an abomination in God's sight. A very wise man once said:

Proverbs 15:8​

“The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.”
There you go again denying Adam from entering the Kingdom of God because he was not born of a Mother. John emphatically said the following:

(John 3:5) Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

I'll let you break that awful news of yours to Adam and Eve.
You sir, are living under a very strong delusion. I'm not going through John 3:1-8 with you again, it is a waste of precious time~ you still do not get the true biblical; meaning of John 1-8.

Btw, concerning breaking the awful news to Adam and Eve ~ God in his word has revealed to us their terrible disobedience that caused the sentence of condemnation, and the second death upon all of us. But thanks be to God there was a Second Adam that came and save his people from condemnation and the lake of fire, which is the second death, by being made a SURETY for them, so sure, that none of them shall ever perish, but shall enter into the final phrase of the Kingdom of God in the new heavens and earth that is soon to come.
 
No.
You now agree that Ez 36 is prophetic for OT believers. Good! So which comes first for OT believers, their belief or the prophetic future fulfillment of a new heart?

No OT passage exists that explicitly says that any OT Saints was born again or regenerated. So my answer is that no Saint was ever born again or regenerated.
It prophetic dealing with the NC. Man your dense.

There does not need to be. Christ is quite clear "you MUST be born again" present tense. To see the kingdom of God. Pretty simple
 
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