John Piper: Born again through faith in the gospel

[brightfame52]

@TomL

No one is born again until they believe

Thats false teaching, no one believes until they are born again. You have been shown plenty of scripture proving that, though you cant receive it. For example 1 Jn 5:1 teaches that

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Peter would not have known who Jesus the Son of God was unless by special revelation from God Matt 16

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Peter could not have believed that by nature, flesh and blood,

so how can anyone else ?

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus said that we must be born again, which means that no one can already be born again and only needs the gospel to help them believe that they are already born again!

Doug

No problem with Jesus saying that. Man must be born again before hearing and believing the Gospel of their Salvation. Jesus teaches that Jn 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see/understand the kingdom of God.

The Gospel is the Gospel of the Kingdom of God as well Mk 1:15

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Paul preached it Acts 28

And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

 

[TibiasDad]

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:

“Believes” is a present tense active verb describing a current state of reality. “…is born of God” is a perfect tense middle/passive verb which indicates that being born of God occurred at a point of time in the past. In other words, if you are currently believing, then you are and have been born again. It is not a causative statement, but a correlative statement: Believers are and have been born again!

Doug

 

[civic]

“Believes” is a present tense active verb describing a current state of reality. “…is born of God” is a perfect tense middle/passive verb which indicates that being born of God occurred at a point of time in the past. In other words, if you are currently believing, then you are and have been born again. It is not a causative statement, but a correlative statement: Believers are and have been born again!

Doug

Well said brother !!!

 

[brightfame52]

“Believes” is a present tense active verb describing a current state of reality. “…is born of God” is a perfect tense middle/passive verb which indicates that being born of God occurred at a point of time in the past. In other words, if you are currently believing, then you are and have been born again. It is not a causative statement, but a correlative statement: Believers are and have been born again!

Doug

When someone believes in the Son, it evidences they had been born of God, that's Apostolic Teaching. You deny it, you deny Apostles Doctrine.

 

[TomL]

@TomL


Thats false teaching, no one believes until they are born again. You have been shown plenty of scripture proving that, though you cant receive it. For example 1 Jn 5:1 teaches that

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Peter would not have known who Jesus the Son of God was unless by special revelation from God Matt 16

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Peter could not have believed that by nature, flesh and blood,

so how can anyone else ?

Duh you got it backwards

Again those who believe are then born again

John 1:12 (LEB) — 12 But as many as received him—to those who believe in his name—he gave to them authority to become children of God,

Galatians 3:26 (LEB) — 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,

1 Peter 1:22–25 (LEB) — 22 Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for sincere brotherly love, love one another fervently from the heart, 23 because you have been born again, not from perishable seed but imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For “all flesh is like grass, and all its glory like the flower of the grass. The grass withers and the flower falls off, 25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.” And this is the word that has been proclaimed to you.


James 1:18 (LEB) — 18 By his will he gave birth to us through the message of truth, so that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV 1900) — 15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

 

[TomL]

Minor correction

You say "Men are born again only through faith in the gospel"

You should say Men are born again only through the faith that is taught in the gospel". Otherwise it looks as if having faith in a book will save you.

Faith in the gospel saves

 

[brightfame52]

Duh you got it backwards

Again those who believe are then born again

John 1:12 (LEB) — 12 But as many as received him—to those who believe in his name—he gave to them authority to become children of God,

Galatians 3:26 (LEB) — 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,

1 Peter 1:22–25 (LEB) — 22 Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for sincere brotherly love, love one another fervently from the heart, 23 because you have been born again, not from perishable seed but imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For “all flesh is like grass, and all its glory like the flower of the grass. The grass withers and the flower falls off, 25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.” And this is the word that has been proclaimed to you.


James 1:18 (LEB) — 18 By his will he gave birth to us through the message of truth, so that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV 1900) — 15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

The Gospel as a word of salvation is sent to the born of God.

 

[MTMattie]

Faith in the gospel saves

Do you have faith in the gospel? Really?

You place your faith in The gospel, meaning "good news," refering to the message about Jesus Christ, including his life, death, and resurrection, which offers salvation and reconciliation with God. It encompasses both the specific message of forgiveness through faith in Jesus and the broader promise of God's renewal of the world. Okay.

I place my faith in the sacrificial death of Christ on the cross. As the incarnate and perfect Son of God, Jesus is the only one who could absorb the punishment for our sins and save us from God’s wrath . He is the only one who could die in our place .

And while this is in the gospel it seems to distance one in relying on a written word then to draw closer to the actual savior to whom I have been known to talk to and I have never done that to a written word.

Blessings

 

[brightfame52]

Faith in the gospel saves

Is that what saved a person from the penalty of their sins ?

 

[TomL]

Is that what saved a person from the penalty of their sins ?

Romans 10:9–10 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

John 3:16 (LEB) — 16 For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.

Ephesians 2:8–9 (LEB) — 8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 it is not from works, so that no one can boast.

Acts 16:31 (LEB) — 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

Romans 3:24–25 (LEB) — 24 being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins,

 

[TomL]

Do you have faith in the gospel? Really?

You place your faith in The gospel, meaning "good news," refering to the message about Jesus Christ, including his life, death, and resurrection, which offers salvation and reconciliation with God. It encompasses both the specific message of forgiveness through faith in Jesus and the broader promise of God's renewal of the world. Okay.

I place my faith in the sacrificial death of Christ on the cross. As the incarnate and perfect Son of God, Jesus is the only one who could absorb the punishment for our sins and save us from God’s wrath . He is the only one who could die in our place .

And while this is in the gospel it seems to distance one in relying on a written word then to draw closer to the actual savior to whom I have been known to talk to and I have never done that to a written word.

Blessings

Yes

1 Corinthians 15:1–4 (LEB) — 1 Now I make known to you, brothers, the gospel which I proclaimed to you, which you have also received, in which you also stand, 2 by which you are also being saved, if you hold fast to the message I proclaimed to you, unless you believed to no purpose. 3 For I passed on to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, 4 and that he was buried, and that he was raised up on the third day according to the scriptures,

 

[brightfame52]

Romans 10:9–10 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

John 3:16 (LEB) — 16 For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.

Ephesians 2:8–9 (LEB) — 8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 it is not from works, so that no one can boast.

Acts 16:31 (LEB) — 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

Romans 3:24–25 (LEB) — 24 being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins,

Is that what saved a person from the penalty of their sins ? Yes or no

 

[TomL]

The Gospel as a word of salvation is sent to the born of God.

Nope believing in the gospel makes you born again

Duh you got it backwards

Again those who believe are then born again

John 1:12 (LEB) — 12 But as many as received him—to those who believe in his name—he gave to them authority to become children of God,

Galatians 3:26 (LEB) — 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,

1 Peter 1:22–25 (LEB) — 22 Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for sincere brotherly love, love one another fervently from the heart, 23 because you have been born again, not from perishable seed but imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For “all flesh is like grass, and all its glory like the flower of the grass. The grass withers and the flower falls off, 25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.” And this is the word that has been proclaimed to you.


James 1:18 (LEB) — 18 By his will he gave birth to us through the message of truth, so that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV 1900) — 15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

Nope believing in the gospel makes you born again

Wrong, one has to be born again to believe the Gospel, until then, man doesnt exist spiritually, he is dead spiritually and lost.

The Gospel is hid to them that are lost and they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[MTMattie]

Yes

1 Corinthians 15:1–4 (LEB) — 1 Now I make known to you, brothers, the gospel which I proclaimed to you, which you have also received, in which you also stand, 2 by which you are also being saved, if you hold fast to the message I proclaimed to you,

I said this above.... "You should say Men are born again only through the faith that is taught in the gospel"

But here we have Paul say by which you are also being saved, if you hold fast to the message...

How is that any different then what I said through the faith that is taught in the gospel?

unless you believed to no purpose. 3 For I passed on to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,

It also applies " faith that is taught in the gospel"

Which " first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,

Certainly according to the scriptures is equal to taught in the gospel?

4 and that he was buried, and that he was raised up on the third day according to the scriptures,

Again... a teaching that was in the scriptures.

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

4 and that he was buried, and that he was raised up on the third day according to the scriptures,

Since when can the natural man believe/know/understand the scriptures ?

Scriptures belong to the things of the Spirit of God 2 Tim 3:16

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Pet 1:20-21

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Now Paul wrote this about the natural man and the things of the Spirit of God 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Thats why the Gospel of the Cross is foolishness to the natural/lost man 1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

 

[TomL]

@TomL


Wrong, one has to be born again to believe the Gospel, until then, man doesnt exist spiritually, he is dead spiritually and lost.

The Gospel is hid to them that are lost and they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Sorry you ignore these

Nope believing in the gospel makes you born again

Duh you got it backwards

Again those who believe are then born again

John 1:12 (LEB) — 12 But as many as received him—to those who believe in his name—he gave to them authority to become children of God,

Galatians 3:26 (LEB) — 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,

1 Peter 1:22–25 (LEB) — 22 Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for sincere brotherly love, love one another fervently from the heart, 23 because you have been born again, not from perishable seed but imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For “all flesh is like grass, and all its glory like the flower of the grass. The grass withers and the flower falls off, 25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.” And this is the word that has been proclaimed to you.


James 1:18 (LEB) — 18 By his will he gave birth to us through the message of truth, so that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV 1900) — 15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

clearly the gospel comes first

 

[TomL]

@TomL


Wrong, one has to be born again to believe the Gospel, until then, man doesnt exist spiritually, he is dead spiritually and lost.

The Gospel is hid to them that are lost and they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Duh, that says nothing about being born again to believe the gospel

One must believe to be born again

Again those who believe are then born again

John 1:12 (LEB) — 12 But as many as received him—to those who believe in his name—he gave to them authority to become children of God,

Galatians 3:26 (LEB) — 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,

1 Peter 1:22–25 (LEB) — 22 Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for sincere brotherly love, love one another fervently from the heart, 23 because you have been born again, not from perishable seed but imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For “all flesh is like grass, and all its glory like the flower of the grass. The grass withers and the flower falls off, 25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.” And this is the word that has been proclaimed to you.


James 1:18 (LEB) — 18 By his will he gave birth to us through the message of truth, so that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV 1900) — 15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

 

[TomL]

I said this above.... "You should say Men are born again only through the faith that is taught in the gospel"

But here we have Paul say by which you are also being saved, if you hold fast to the message...

How is that any different then what I said through the faith that is taught in the gospel?

This is clearly believing the gospel

1 Corinthians 15:1–4 (LEB) — 1 Now I make known to you, brothers, the gospel which I proclaimed to you, which you have also received, in which you also stand, 2 by which you are also being saved, if you hold fast to the message I proclaimed to you,


it results in being saved