Jesus is not God according to Sola Scriptura

Runningman

Well-known member
Verses 4 and 8 say "him which is, and which was, and which is to come" is the Lord Almighty. Verse 5 says "and from Jesus Christ." Means Jesus isn't God in plain English. That's sola scriptura.

Revelation 1 (KJV)​
4John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.​
8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
 
6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

----->kratos (Rev. 1:6)
pantokratōr (Rev. 1:8)


That Jesus is the proper recipient of dominion (kratos) in the doxology of Revelation 1:6 proves He is the Almighty (pantokratōr) in Revelation 1:8.





Notice also that in verse 7 it speaks of Jesus 'coming' (erchomai) which is also used in Revelation 1:8. Just like the above, in reference to Jesus.

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.


Simple.
 
----->kratos (Rev. 1:6)
pantokratōr (Rev. 1:8)


That Jesus is the proper recipient of dominion (kratos) in the doxology of Revelation 1:6 proves He is the Almighty (pantokratōr) in Revelation 1:8.





Notice also that in verse 7 it speaks of Jesus 'coming' (erchomai) which is also used in Revelation 1:8. Just like the above, in reference to Jesus.

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.


Simple.
The fact that Jesus is distinct from the Lord Almighty in this passage is proof to the contrary. It's also proof to the contrary that his Father is the only one called God in verse 6. This passage speaks a lot against the deity of Jesus. Someone who is God needs to be called such. Actually, this is just a small snippet of the chapter. There are much more proofs against the deity of Jesus all through Revelation.
 
The fact that Jesus is distinct from the Lord Almighty in this passage is proof to the contrary. It's also proof to the contrary that his Father is the only one called God in verse 6. This passage speaks a lot against the deity of Jesus. Someone who is God needs to be called such. Actually, this is just a small snippet of the chapter. There are much more proofs against the deity of Jesus all through Revelation.


So, going by your reasoning, if the Holy Spirit is distinct from God in a passage of scripture, then this proves that the Holy Spirit is not God, right?
 
Matthew 28:19 " ... baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, ..." So, according to your reasoning, the Son cannot be the Father here - also the Holy Spirit mentioned here cannot be the Father, right?
 
Verses 4 and 8 say "him which is, and which was, and which is to come" is the Lord Almighty. Verse 5 says "and from Jesus Christ." Means Jesus isn't God in plain English. That's sola scriptura.

Revelation 1 (KJV)​
4John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.​
8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Sorry that just indicates one person is not the other

It does not show that both cannot be deity (God)

You are begging the question and ignoring scripture

BTW this is Jesus

Revelation 22:12–20 (KJV 1900) — 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

You are busted again
 
Verses 4 and 8 say "him which is, and which was, and which is to come" is the Lord Almighty. Verse 5 says "and from Jesus Christ." Means Jesus isn't God in plain English. That's sola scriptura.

Revelation 1 (KJV)​
4John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.​
8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Let's apply your reasoning to verse 6:

6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen

According to your reasoning, The "and" in that verse makes a distinction between God and Jesus' Father. Are you prepared to be consistent and say God is not Jesus' Father?

That's sola scriptura.
 
Verses 4 and 8 say "him which is, and which was, and which is to come" is the Lord Almighty. Verse 5 says "and from Jesus Christ." Means Jesus isn't God in plain English. That's sola scriptura.

Revelation 1 (KJV)​
4John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.​
8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Again you fail to consider the argument is not that they are the same person but that they are of the same nature - deity - God

and once again Jesus is called alpha and omega, the beginning and the end.


Here

Revelation 22:12–20 (KJV 1900) — 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

BTW he is the root of David (an obvious confirmation of pre-existence) as if the term first and last was not
 
GINOLJC, to all
Runningman, 101G must take off his hat to you. God has allowed you to put TRUTH RIGHT in their faces and yet they could not see it, nor you.
in both verses it shows that the Lord Jesus is the HIM, "which is, and which was, and which is to come" and you highlighted it also. neither you nor them saw it. let's look at what throwed both you and them off. Revelation 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;" Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"

that conjunction "AND" got all of you.

many analyzed these verses as the following.

PERSON #1. the Father. "from him which is, and which was, and which is to come"

PERSON #2. the Holy Spirit. "from the seven Spirits"

PERSON #3. the Son. "from Jesus Christ"

and in verse 8, Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." you and many say that this is HIM, "which is, and which was, and which is to come". the Almighty, the Father.

many only looked at the HIM, "which is, and which was, and which is to come" and did not see the "Lord", (who is JESUS). nor did any read further, that the "him which is, and which was, and which is to come" is JESUS. the First and the Last, scripture, Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." and again in Revelation 1:11 which 101G is about to point out .and did not the First and the Last die ...... on the cross? let's see. Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet," Revelation 1:11 "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea." Revelation 1:12 "And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;" Revelation 1:13 "And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle." Revelation 1:14 "His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;" Revelation 1:15 "And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters." Revelation 1:16 "And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength." Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:" Revelation 1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."
so, according to you Runningman, and the rest arguing with you must have missed that, "him which is, and which was, and which is to come. DIED. did any missed that?

it's amazing how many can be deceived in plain sight of the TRUTH. and yet not repent.


101G.
 
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GINOLJC, to all
Runningman, 101G must take off his hat to you. God has allowed you to put TRUTH RIGHT in their faces and yet they could not see it, nor you.
in both verses it shows that the Lord Jesus is the HIM, "which is, and which was, and which is to come" and you highlighted it also. neither you nor them saw it. let's look at what throwed both you and them off. Revelation 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;" Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"

that conjunction "AND" got all of you.

many analyzed these verses as the following.

PERSON #1. the Father. "from him which is, and which was, and which is to come"

PERSON #2. the Holy Spirit. "from the seven Spirits"

PERSON #3. the Son. "from Jesus Christ"

and in verse 8, Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." you and many say that this is HIM, "which is, and which was, and which is to come". the Almighty, the Father.

many only looked at the HIM, "which is, and which was, and which is to come" and did not see the "Lord", (who is JESUS). nor did any read further, that the "him which is, and which was, and which is to come" is JESUS. the First and the Last, scripture, Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." and again in Revelation 1:11 which 101G is about to point out .and did not the First and the Last die ...... on the cross? let's see. Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet," Revelation 1:11 "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea." Revelation 1:12 "And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;" Revelation 1:13 "And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle." Revelation 1:14 "His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;" Revelation 1:15 "And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters." Revelation 1:16 "And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength." Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:" Revelation 1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."
so, according to you Runningman, and the rest arguing with you must have missed that, "him which is, and which was, and which is to come. DIED. did any missed that?

it's amazing how many can be deceived in plain sight of the TRUTH. and yet not repent.


101G.

GINOLJC, to all
Runningman, 101G must take off his hat to you. God has allowed you to put TRUTH RIGHT in their faces and yet they could not see it, nor you.
in both verses it shows that the Lord Jesus is the HIM, "which is, and which was, and which is to come" and you highlighted it also. neither you nor them saw it. let's look at what throwed both you and them off. Revelation 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;" Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"

that conjunction "AND" got all of you.

many analyzed these verses as the following.

PERSON #1. the Father. "from him which is, and which was, and which is to come"

PERSON #2. the Holy Spirit. "from the seven Spirits"

PERSON #3. the Son. "from Jesus Christ"

and in verse 8, Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." you and many say that this is HIM, "which is, and which was, and which is to come". the Almighty, the Father.

many only looked at the HIM, "which is, and which was, and which is to come" and did not see the "Lord", (who is JESUS). nor did any read further, that the "him which is, and which was, and which is to come" is JESUS. the First and the Last, scripture, Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." and again in Revelation 1:11 which 101G is about to point out .and did not the First and the Last die ...... on the cross? let's see. Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet," Revelation 1:11 "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea." Revelation 1:12 "And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;" Revelation 1:13 "And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle." Revelation 1:14 "His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;" Revelation 1:15 "And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters." Revelation 1:16 "And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength." Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:" Revelation 1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."
so, according to you Runningman, and the rest arguing with you must have missed that, "him which is, and which was, and which is to come. DIED. did any missed that?

it's amazing how many can be deceived in plain sight of the TRUTH. and yet not repent.


101G.
Not so amazing when two who do not understand scripture come to the wrong conclusions

What he shows is that they are not the same person not that both are not deity

and you fail to see

from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;" Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ,

that is three persons
 
What he shows is that they are not the same person not that both are not deity

and you fail to see
"Both are not deity?", this is what 101G is speaking of......... this is the same ONE PERSON spoken of, whom you still cannot SEE, nor understand.... (SMILE).

101G. (the anti-christ)
 
"Both are not deity?", this is what 101G is speaking of......... this is the same ONE PERSON spoken of, whom you still cannot SEE, nor understand.... (SMILE).

101G. (the anti-christ)
Don't take it out of context

What he shows is that they are not the same person not that both are not deity

In other words He fails to show both are not deity something he denies
 
The fact that Jesus is distinct from the Lord Almighty in this passage is proof to the contrary. It's also proof to the contrary that his Father is the only one called God in verse 6. This passage speaks a lot against the deity of Jesus. Someone who is God needs to be called such. Actually, this is just a small snippet of the chapter. There are much more proofs against the deity of Jesus all through Revelation.
Are you @Runningman against the Deity of Christ Jesus?

J.
 
Let's apply your reasoning to verse 6:

6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen

According to your reasoning, The "and" in that verse makes a distinction between God and Jesus' Father. Are you prepared to be consistent and say God is not Jesus' Father?

That's sola scriptura.
Yes the Unitarian dilemma exposes their inconsistency and bias when trying to understand and interpret scripture
 
Are you @Runningman against the Deity of Christ Jesus?

J.
And he is in multiple passages

John 1:1 (LEB) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:18 (LEB) — 18 No one has seen God at any time; the one and only, God, the one who is in the bosom of the Father—that one has made him known.

John 20:28 (LEB) — 28 Thomas answered and said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

Titus 2:13 (LEB) — 13 looking forward to the blessed hope and the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Titus 2:13 (LEB) — 13 looking forward to the blessed hope and the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Hebrews 1:8 (LEB) — 8 but concerning the Son, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of righteous is the scepter of your kingdom.

etc
 
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