Jesus denied being God

[Peterlag]

The supposed “dual nature” of Christ is never stated in the Bible and contradicts the Bible and the laws of nature that God set up. Nothing can be 100% of two different things. Jesus cannot be 100% God and 100% man, and that is not a “mystery” but it's a contradiction and a talk of nonsense. A fatal flaw in the “dual nature” theory is that both natures in Jesus would have had to have known about each other. The Jesus God nature would have known about his human nature, and (according to what the Trinitarians teach) his human nature knew he was God, which explains why Trinitarians say Jesus taught that he was God. The book of Hebrews is wrong when it says Jesus was “made like his brothers in every respect” if Jesus knew he was God (Hebrews 2:17). Jesus was not made like other humans in every way if Jesus was 100% God and 100% human at the same time. In fact, he would have been very different from other humans in many respects.

For example, in his God nature he would not have been tempted by anything (James 1:13), and his human part would not have been tempted either since his human nature had access to that same knowledge and assurance. It is written he was tempted in every way like we all are (Hebrews 4:15). Furthermore, God does not have the problems, uncertainty, and anxieties that humans do, and Jesus would not have had those either if he knew he was God. Also, Luke 2:52 says Jesus grew in wisdom, but his human part would have had access to his God part, which would have given him infinite and inherent wisdom. Hebrews says Jesus “learned obedience” by the things that he suffered, but again, the human part of Jesus would have accessed the God part of him and he would not have needed to learn anything.

 

[mikesw]

The supposed “dual nature” of Christ is never stated in the Bible and contradicts the Bible and the laws of nature that God set up. Nothing can be 100% of two different things. Jesus cannot be 100% God and 100% man, and that is not a “mystery” but it's a contradiction and a talk of nonsense. A fatal flaw in the “dual nature” theory is that both natures in Jesus would have had to have known about each other. The Jesus God nature would have known about his human nature, and (according to what the Trinitarians teach) his human nature knew he was God, which explains why Trinitarians say Jesus taught that he was God. The book of Hebrews is wrong when it says Jesus was “made like his brothers in every respect” if Jesus knew he was God (Hebrews 2:17). Jesus was not made like other humans in every way if Jesus was 100% God and 100% human at the same time. In fact, he would have been very different from other humans in many respects.

For example, in his God nature he would not have been tempted by anything (James 1:13), and his human part would not have been tempted either since his human nature had access to that same knowledge and assurance. It is written he was tempted in every way like we all are (Hebrews 4:15). Furthermore, God does not have the problems, uncertainty, and anxieties that humans do, and Jesus would not have had those either if he knew he was God. Also, Luke 2:52 says Jesus grew in wisdom, but his human part would have had access to his God part, which would have given him infinite and inherent wisdom. Hebrews says Jesus “learned obedience” by the things that he suffered, but again, the human part of Jesus would have accessed the God part of him and he would not have needed to learn anything.

It does not help to use the same debunked arguments that runningman tried to run with. There is the tempting that comes from outside like Satan tempting Jesus from outsides. Then Jame 1:13 is someone's inside state of being tempted. I thought it was just runningman who did not know the nuances of how words are used. I guess that is a common symptom that explains why people become Unitarians.

 

[TomL]

It would be wrong to confuse what Thomas said as an address to Jesus. This is exactly why no one will translate this verse, unless they want to be funny, as “You are my Lord and my God.”

Not only does the Greek reject the idea, but context does as well. Just a few verses back in John 20:17, Jesus identified Thomas’ God as the Father. Full stop. Jesus never told anyone he is their god and no one ever addressed him as such.

On the matter of what Jesus replied to Thomas with, it would be a huge stretch to say Jesus approved of it. Jesus, to the contrary, said that only those who have not seen and believe are blessed while Thomas was a believer in Jesus’ resurrection because he saw it. I’m pretty sure Jesus does not approve that Thomas didn’t meet the qualification of being blessed. He didn’t even acknowledge what Thomas said.

Provided the preponderance of evidence, Thomas made a declaration about God but didn’t address Jesus as such.

Sorry that is nothing but denial of the text

John 20:28–29 (KJV 1900) — 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.


Thomas is speaking to Jesus

He addresses him as my Lord and my God

Now a godly sinless man would reject such a declaration as blasphemy

Jesus did not and pronounced a blessing upon those who so believe but have not seen

Were Thomas speaking to god

there would be no purpose in Jesus stating

Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed

Again you ignore context in your bias to deny Christ's deity

 

[TomL]

None of your above verses hold water. Only in your mind do you see a trinity. Others do not. I told you this many times about how the word "God" is used in the Bible and this is an historic truth that we know. It's not just me saying it. And you refuse to believe it. Some Biblical Unitarians believe that Psalm 45:6 and Hebrews 1:8 are calling the Messiah “god.” They recognize that this king is not being called “God” with a capital “G,” but they think the Messiah is being called “god,” and they translate both Psalm 45:6 and Hebrews 1:8 as having “god” with a lowercase “g.” It is true that in the biblical languages, including Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, and Latin, the word “GOD” had a much broader meaning than it does today (Hebrew and Aramaic have only uppercase letters, and all the ancient Greek manuscripts were in capital letters, so the manuscripts all read “GOD”). In the biblical languages, “GOD” was a descriptive title applied to a range of authorities, including angels and demons, lesser gods, great people, rulers, and people acting with God’s authority. The word “God” in both Hebrew and Greek could refer to a human being, especially a human being acting under God’s authority.

Sorry capital G and small g have nothing to do with the text but a translator's theological understanding


Hebrews 1:8–12 (KJV 1900) — 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

further in Hebrews 1:10 we have a reference to Psa 102:25-27 which is addressed to God (which in context is to Jehovah)

Psalm 102:25–27 (KJV 1900) — 25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: And the heavens are the work of thy hands. 26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: Yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; As a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: 27 But thou art the same, And thy years shall have no end.

Why are words which are applied to Jehovah in the Old Testament applied to Jesus in the New Testament?

The rest you do not address


John 20:28–29 (KJV 1900) — 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.


Isaiah 9:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: And the government shall be upon his shoulder: And his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

 

[MTMattie]

It would be wrong to confuse what Thomas said as an address to Jesus. This is exactly why no one will translate this verse, unless they want to be funny, as “You are my Lord and my God.”

Not only does the Greek reject the idea, but context does as well. Just a few verses back in John 20:17, Jesus identified Thomas’ God as the Father. Full stop. Jesus never told anyone he is their god and no one ever addressed him as such.

On the matter of what Jesus replied to Thomas with, it would be a huge stretch to say Jesus approved of it. Jesus, to the contrary, said that only those who have not seen and believe are blessed while Thomas was a believer in Jesus’ resurrection because he saw it. I’m pretty sure Jesus does not approve that Thomas didn’t meet the qualification of being blessed. He didn’t even acknowledge what Thomas said.

Provided the preponderance of evidence, Thomas made a declaration about God but didn’t address Jesus as such.

24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymus[a]), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” That had to be a directive to you, eh??????????

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

OR Ya think it was maybe Jesus from Mexico come lookin for work?

 

[MTMattie]

Sorry that is nothing but denial of the text

John 20:28–29 (KJV 1900) — 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.


Thomas is speaking to Jesus

He addresses him as my Lord and my God

Now a godly sinless man would reject such a declaration as blasphemy

Jesus did not and pronounced a blessing upon those who so believe but have not seen What does this mean?
blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Were Thomas speaking to god

there would be no purpose in Jesus stating

Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed

Again you ignore context in your bias to deny Christ's deity

YOU ARE NOT EXPLAINING THE CONTEXT AS YOU SE IT VERY WELL...

I find it perfectly understandable as written and read.

 

[Runningman]

Huh? Who else was "Lord" in the room? The Butler?

Better question. Who is the only God in the room? The Father is called the Lord and God in Scripture. Since Jesus just mentioned this Lord and God in John 20:17, the only "Lord and God" who would meet the qualification of such is the Father, not Jesus.

Matthew 11​

25At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.​

​

John 20​

17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.​

Huh? It's been translated thousands of times throughout the last two millenniums. Nobody got your memo not to do so.

No one has translated it as “You are my Lord and my God.”

Huh? How so?

It doesn't use the vocative case, but rather the nominative. Thomas didn't address Jesus, hence there is no "You are..." before "my Lord and my God" and why no one translates it in such a way. John didn't write John 20:28 even remotely thinking that Thomas was addressing Jesus, but rather remembered it as Thomas making a declaration. In other words, Thomas thinking Jesus was his God was the furthest thing from John's mind. There is a lot of evidence for John not believing Jesus is God around the New Testament, on that note.

However, John was plain about who Jesus said their God is in John 20:17 and miscelleanous other places.

That proves Trinitarianism. Your unitarian presuppositions are blinding you to what Thomas said.

As a result, Trinitarianism has been debunked.

Read John 5:58.

A unitarian Jesus would have immediately corrected Thomas. That never happened.

This is an argument against the Trinity. Since in Trinitarianism God means "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" then writing the Trinitarian concept of God into Scripture, and attaching it to what Thomas said, then according to you Thomas called Jesus the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Bad theology. Bad logic. In some venues there would be an uproar of laughter at how silly your Trinitarian concept is.

 

[Runningman]

I've heard it suggested that Thomas' response was sort of an expletive, somewhat
similar to OMG, brought on by his surprise that Jesus crucified dead body was
restored to life.
_

Based on the evidence, that is entirely plausible. I am pretty sure I have blurted out an OMG every now and then. I hope no one misunderstood me, wrote it down, and will spend the next several centuries arguing that I deified someone. That's most likely what Thomas was honestly doing. Just like... "omg... Jesus is alive."

 

[Runningman]

24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymus[a]), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” That had to be a directive to you, eh??????????

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

OR Ya think it was maybe Jesus from Mexico come lookin for work?

In John 20:25, Thomas said in the KJV, "...Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe."

Then Jesus said in verse 29. "...because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

So based on what Jesus said and Thomas saying he will not believe Jesus was resurrected by God unless he sees him, Thomas wasn't blessed. Reads like Thomas was punished for being doubting Thomas. Word of advice, don't base your theology around a doubter like Thomas unless you want to get lead into a ditch with him. Just follow Jesus and you'll be fine.

 

[TomL]

YOU ARE NOT EXPLAINING THE CONTEXT AS YOU SE IT VERY WELL...

I find it perfectly understandable as written and read.

Are you addressing me?


Which you believe means what?

 

[TomL]

Based on the evidence, that is entirely plausible. I am pretty sure I have blurted out an OMG every now and then. I hope no one misunderstood me, wrote it down, and will spend the next several centuries arguing that I deified someone. That's most likely what Thomas was honestly doing. Just like... "omg... Jesus is alive."

Speculation is not evidence

and Thomas did not say OMG

That reply smacks of desperation

 

[Aeliana]

Jesus is not The Father, Jesus is not The Holy Spirt. Jesus is the Son and all three are God,

Trinity​

Christian conception of God as consisting of three persons (hypostases) — the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit — sharing the same substance (ousia)​

According to Christian theology, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not separate deities, but rather three distinct persons comprising a single, eternal Godhead. This concept is known as the Trinity.
Essence and Unity
The Trinity’s essence or nature defines what God is, while the three persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) define who God is. This unity is expressed through their distinct yet inseparable relationships:

• The Father begets the Son (eternal generation)
• The Son is begotten of the Father (eternal sonship)
• The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (eternal procession)

Co-Eternal and Co-Equivalent
The three persons of the Trinity co-exist eternally, possessing identical divine attributes such as immortality, omnipotence, and omniscience. They are equally God, with no hierarchy or superiority among them.
Scriptural Support
Various Bible verses and passages, such as Matthew 28:19, 2 Corinthians 13:14, and 1 Peter 1:2, affirm the Trinity’s existence. These texts describe God as a unity of three persons, often using familial language (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) to convey their distinct yet inseparable relationships.
Conclusion
In summary, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not separate gods, but rather three co-eternal and co-equivalent persons comprising a single, eternal Godhead. This understanding of the Trinity is rooted in Christian theology and supported by Scripture.

Top 25 Bible Verses about the Trinity: Father, Son & Holy Spirit

These Bible verses and Scriptures about the trinity will help you have a better understanding of who God is ONE in THREE persons.

www.biblestudytools.com

 

[TomL]

Jesus is not The Father, Jesus is not The Holy Spirt. Jesus is the Son and all three are God,

Trinity​

Christian conception of God as consisting of three persons (hypostases) — the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit — sharing the same substance (ousia)​

According to Christian theology, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not separate deities, but rather three distinct persons comprising a single, eternal Godhead. This concept is known as the Trinity.
Essence and Unity
The Trinity’s essence or nature defines what God is, while the three persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) define who God is. This unity is expressed through their distinct yet inseparable relationships:

• The Father begets the Son (eternal generation)
• The Son is begotten of the Father (eternal sonship)
• The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (eternal procession)

Co-Eternal and Co-Equivalent
The three persons of the Trinity co-exist eternally, possessing identical divine attributes such as immortality, omnipotence, and omniscience. They are equally God, with no hierarchy or superiority among them.
Scriptural Support
Various Bible verses and passages, such as Matthew 28:19, 2 Corinthians 13:14, and 1 Peter 1:2, affirm the Trinity’s existence. These texts describe God as a unity of three persons, often using familial language (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) to convey their distinct yet inseparable relationships.
Conclusion
In summary, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not separate gods, but rather three co-eternal and co-equivalent persons comprising a single, eternal Godhead. This understanding of the Trinity is rooted in Christian theology and supported by Scripture.

Top 25 Bible Verses about the Trinity: Father, Son & Holy Spirit

These Bible verses and Scriptures about the trinity will help you have a better understanding of who God is ONE in THREE persons.

www.biblestudytools.com

Certainly a woman can rebuke those Christ deniers

 

[TomL]

In John 20:25, Thomas said in the KJV, "...Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe."

Then Jesus said in verse 29. "...because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

So based on what Jesus said and Thomas saying he will not believe Jesus was resurrected by God unless he sees him, Thomas wasn't blessed. Reads like Thomas was punished for being doubting Thomas. Word of advice, don't base your theology around a doubter like Thomas unless you want to get lead into a ditch with him. Just follow Jesus and you'll be fine.

Nor will you

Thomas woke up and confessed Christ

 

[Aeliana]

Certainly a woman can rebuke those Christ deniers

Sure she can. A woman gave birth to our Savior. I love what Mary said about Jesus/

His mother said to the servants, Whatever He says to you, do it.
John 2:5.

 

[Runningman]

Sure she can. A woman gave birth to our Savior. I love what Mary said about Jesus/

His mother said to the servants, Whatever He says to you, do it.
John 2:5.

Is she the mother of Lord God or a human Lord?

Luke 1
43And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

 

[Runningman]

Nor will you

Thomas woke up and confessed Christ

If Jesus asked you directly, "Whom say ye that I am?" What would your answer be?

 

[praise_yeshua]

If Jesus asked you directly, "Whom say ye that I am?" What would your answer be?

Lord God Almighty. The Son isn't less than His Father. They are both Perfect.

Do you have a son? I do. I rather obvious that ego of yours get in the way of how you view your son.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Is she the mother of Lord God or a human Lord?

Luke 1
43And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

She was certainly "highly favored". Just like the apostles...."Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see:"

Luk 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
Luk 10:23 And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see:
Luk 10:24 For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.


Notice how you don't really know the Son.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The supposed “dual nature” of Christ is never stated in the Bible and contradicts the Bible and the laws of nature that God set up. Nothing can be 100% of two different things.

100 percent is a man made distinction. Have you ever read of 100 percent in the Scriptures?

If you really want to make this about the Scriptures then do so.

100 percent is just a representation. Even human being are not all the same. We vary from one another. Ever heard of "traits"?

God revitalized bodies of Sarah and Abraham to create their son Isaac. Jesus Christ wasn't made after the results of sin you find your own body.

It would be good if you really knew the Scriptures instead of just what your Bible College professor knew. He is limiting you.