Peterlag
Well-known member
I also quote E.W. Bullinger often. Am I a bad writer because I quote some of the best biblical scholars who have ever lived within the last couple of hundred years? To say yes would be thinking like a fool.
Jesus denied being God
- Thread starter Runningman
- Start date
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Geesh..... Bullinger?
An Anglican that believed in the concept of the "Church of England"..... You really picked a winner. I'm a American from an "English" non-conformist. I don't let others define me.
You will find I have many problems with Trinitarians.
Peterlag
Well-known member
Only a fool would say such writing is from an ignorant man. https://www.carb-fat.com/jesus.html
From chapter 5...
The High Priest was the head of the priesthood, functioning as the head of the Temple, and the official representative between God and Israel. To carry out such a responsibility he was forbidden any impure contact that might defile him. Only he could enter once a year in the innermost part of the sanctuary of the Temple, known as the holy of holies where the sacred Ark of the Covenant was kept, to proclaim divine revelations, having the exclusive privilege of consulting God directly. Appeal to him could be made in any matter because he exercised supreme authority over the worship and the Temple, as the mediator between God and Israel. Jesus Christ is the perfect High Priest, who took upon himself the sins of the entire world, and is the mediator of the new covenant between God and us. The Temple was a temporary place where one would go for divine blessing in building form, but now it is in Christ, who is a permanent place, where one needs to go for divine blessing because of the new covenant God has with Christ.
In the new covenant, we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ, who entered into heaven itself to appear in the holy of holies, the sacred chamber of the heart of God’s glorious presence for us. Jesus Christ is the promised seed and faithful High Priest, who fulfilled all the law, and is set between God and us—because he is connected to both sides, and thereby he is able to work with God and with us. My mind boggles over God’s heart of love, His compassion, and the tenderness to have Jesus Christ, who is the greatest food of all time, the bread of life, to establish a true and vital spiritual relationship between God and us.
Peterlag
Well-known member
No a lot of this work is from many other books I studied and data I learned right from the Scriptures... https://www.carb-fat.com/jesus.html
Stuff like...
I was taught God or Christ was showing me something when I walk by the spirit. Maybe it's the spirit showing me something when I walk by the spirit. In Romans 8:4, it's suggesting we walk after or by this spirit. In Romans 8:9, it calls this spirit the spirit of Christ. In Romans 8:11, it calls this spirit the spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead and that it dwells in us. In 1 Corinthians 3:16, it calls it the spirit of God that dwells in us. In Galatians 4:6, it's called the spirit of his son. And in Galatians 5:16, it talks about walking in this spirit. Very few Christians know who they are in the spirit because most of us have been taught by our religious leaders that we are sinners by nature. And in my view that is just the opposite of what the Scriptures teach.
We are taught "to be in the spirit" means to walk upright in our flesh or to have our flesh in fellowship with God. So we read right over the many verses such as Peter and John were filled with the spirit. Or "that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21. Romans talks about no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. Christians everywhere do not seem to understand the words "in him" or "in Christ" or "filled with the spirit." We can't see ourselves walking by the spirit because we are taught that the operations of the spirit are things we operate through our flesh. They are not the manifestations of you. They are of the spirit. We are also taught that we are sinners and this is another reason why we can't see the spirit as long as we see ourselves as a piece of trash. To see it we have to see ourselves as the righteousness of God in him.
I live by the faith of the Son of God...
If Paul in Galatians 2:20 says he's crucified in the flesh. But he still lives, but not him, but Christ. Then I gotta think he's referring to the Christ within. The new nature. And that is the spirit of Christ, which we can shorten to spirit. Then it's the faith from the spirit. Well, one of the operations or manifestations of the spirit is faith.
Peterlag
Well-known member
You have many problems with Scripture since I handle the Scriptures better than most and you say I do not.
Runningman
Well-known member
Curious. Do you believe if anyone or anything is an object of worship, aside from God Himself of course (not one of His messengers, prophets, or sons) that it's idolatry?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Remember what I referenced?
2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
I don't have an issue with Scripture. You have an issue with your preferred source...... your "Bible College". You have traditions.....
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
True Humanism.... More traditions.
Just FYI.........Not that I'm part of the "grammar police" but "gotta" is informal.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
That is what Jesus wants you to do... right? Keep implying I'm a fool. I bet Jesus just loves that......
You're really lost in this. So much so that I can see that I'm just making it worse for you. I'll leave you to yourself. Let me know when you'd like to have that public debate.
101G
Well-known member
who said it was LIMITED, or anyone running for any reference? agreed, perfection has one voice.... the problem is UNDERSTANDING the ONE VOICE. Diversified Oneness, it runs from Genesis to Revelation. "it's the whole bible, from beginning to end. and speaking of "beginning",
Example, Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
the Hebrew term "beginning" here set the stage for the complete understanding of all and EVERY reference made of Father/Son. let's hear God word.
Beginning: H7225 רֵאשִׁית re'shiyth (ray-sheeth') n-f.
1. the first, in place, time, order or rank.
2. (specifically) a firstfruit.
[from the same as H7218]
KJV: beginning, chief(-est), first(-fruits, part, time), principal thing.
Root(s): H7218
examine the first definition above. 1. the first, in place, time, order or rank. the "First?", in TIME, yes, but, (not yet manifested), invisible, Colossians 1:15 "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:" why? for he is to Come in flesh.... to redeem us from sin. what is the PLACE where we sinned? OT. and where is the PLACE we're redeemed? NT. but in what ORDER from invisible to visible, FIRST and LAST, First and Last are in ORDINAL DESIGINATIONS in this MANIFESTATION. which means, "it tell us about the precise position of an object, thing, or Person, as Here MANIFESTING. let's see this First and Last in TIME. Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" this is another clue of God as a Diversity or equal share of himself to come in flesh. listen to the definition of "ONE"
ONE: H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258
Notice definition #2. (as an ordinal) first. first. in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, and RANK. this is why the Lord Jesus said of himself, "that HE made man male and female.... Hello, speaking as the Last. yes, the Lord Jesus the CHRIST, the CHRIST... "MADE NOTHING". ..... but JESUS did.... get that?
that's why Genesis 1:6 said Let US, .... US who? the First and the Last who was, was, was, to come. because only ONE PERSON made man male and female. supportive scriptures. Matthew 19:3 "The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?" Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female," HE? that MADE THEM.... where? at the beginning, (there's that word beginning again). Only ONE PERSON made all things. now read John 1:3..... (smile), the same One person to come in the END, again Ordinal designations. my God the One Voice is clearly speaking.
what is the RANK? "LORD"/title Father/First. and in the ECHAD of this Ordinal designations, RANK, "Lord"/Title Son/Last. this is why Psalms 110:1 is so important to UNDERSTAND, (in flesh in the Ordinal designations of Last in the ECHAD of Himself, he is Lord, and why he is the YHWH). "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."
Lord here is H113 אָדוֹן 'adown (aw-done') n-m.
אָדֹן 'adon (aw-done') [shortened]
1. sovereign (i.e. controller, human or divine).
2. lord.
{also used as a prefix for names}
[from an unused root (meaning to rule)]
KJV: lord, master, owner.
NOW UNDERSTAND, this same "Lord" is in verse 5, Psalms 110:5 "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath." the SAME Lord at his Right is,
Lord: H136 אֲדֹנָי 'Adonay (ad-o-noy') n-m.
1. (meaning) Lord (used as a proper name of God only).
2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).
[am emphatic form of H113]
KJV: (my) Lord.
Root(s): H113
Definition says it all. now the UNDERSTANDING of the ONE VOICE. in verse 1"adown (aw-done')"/God is SHARED EQUALLY in natural flesh bone and blood. supportive scripture, John 13:13 "Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am." but definition #2 is no mistake 2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel”
WHY, because at his RIGHT, he is now glorified in his own Spirit. Oh my this is too easy.
"Lord", as the first definition states, 1. sovereign (i.e. controller, human or divine). again, the ONE VOICE is speaking, ... just understand.
one other word from Genesis that identifies God in this plurality, Listen to the ONE VOICE in UNDERSTANDING.
God: H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433
[plural of H433] of, of, of, ..... yes, so who is H433? answer,
H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m.
אֱלֹהַּ 'eloahh (el-o'-ah) [shortened (rarely)]
1. one with supreme strength and ability.
2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator, Yahweh by name.
3. a supreme entity, a god-like creature (that is, one of God's supreme creations, or one of man's inventions).
[probably prolonged (emphat.) from H410]
KJV: God, god.
Root(s): H410
now is this two GODS? no, only ONE, for H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m. is "OF", "OF", "OF" H433 and NOT "FROM". what's the difference between "OF" and "FROM? if H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m was "FROM" God, them that would be a separate and distinct Spirit/Person Individual. but the definition clearly states, "OF" God meaning the SAME PERSO, Just in SHARING of, of, of, himself, or the EQUAL of the same ONE PERSON, (himself) and NOT a separate and distinct Spirit/Person.
understand the ONE VOICE. if H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m. IS "OF" God/H433 that would be G243 Allos, which means, Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort. (This is the EQUAL SHARE). and if H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m. IS
"FROM" God/H433 that would be G2087 heteros, which heteros expresses a qualitative difference and denotes "another of a different sort.
a totally different person do you understand the voice NOW?
H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m. IS "OF" God/H433, hence the PLURILITY of, of, of, ONE.... ONE the ECHAD in Ordinal designations of First and Last.. beginning and end, alpha and omega, or Root and Offspring. there is your totality of Diversified Oneness.
this is Just ....... Genesis 1:1 which set the stage to clearly UNDERSTAND the US and the OUR/Plurality in Genesis 1:26 and why the HE and HIS/Oneness in the very next verse Genesis 1:27.
study what has been posted, and then if you like we can discuss.
101G.
Peterlag
Well-known member
A devil spirit would also leave me alone because the more you say I'm ignorant the more Word of God I spit in your eye.
Peterlag
Well-known member
You attack the typewriter the way you accuse and attack people. You can't handle what's written so you pick at my style of writing.
Peterlag
Well-known member
Traditions? Are these the writings of tradition?
From my book... chapter 5
It's not how to get Christ to live within our natural realm, because the things of the spirit cannot enter the things of the flesh, and then be subject to the obedience of the natural realm. But to let Christ live within, by letting our spiritually renewed mind into his spiritual world, and letting his spiritual faith function within our natural world. The “Christ in you” is the ability to walk and talk with him, doing what he would have us do rather than walking by our senses or by the dictates of any human doctrine.
We have the power within us of unlimited potential, and we can reach forth with the touch of the Master’s hand because he is in us—inside our being. And this is why wherever we are with God in Christ in us, we will have that same radiance, that same light, and that same life, which has magnified the Christ to shine. Not because of who we are, but because of what God made us to be when He created in Christ Jesus. God’s seed in us, also known as the gift of holy spirit, is our connection to God, who is the Holy Spirit. The gift of holy spirit is our power base because of our connection to Christ.
When he was circumcised, we were circumcised with him.
(Colossians 2:11)
When he was baptized, we were baptized with him.
(Romans 6:3)
When he was crucified, we were crucified with him.
(Galatians 2:20)
When he died, we died with him.
(Galatians 2:20)
When he was buried, we were buried with him.
(Colossians 2:12)
When he arose, we arose with him.
(Ephesians 2:6)
When he ascended, we ascended with him.
(Ephesians 2:6)
When he sat down, we sat down with him.
(Ephesians 2:6)
We were called in him. (Romans 8:29-30)
We were made alive with him. (Colossians 2:13)
We were baptized into him. (Romans 6:3)
We were reconciled in him. (Romans 5:10)
We were redeemed by him. (1 Peter 1:18-19)
We were justified in him. (Romans 3:24)
We were made righteous in him. (Romans 5:16-18)
We were sanctified in him. (1 Corinthians 6:11)
We were glorified in him. (Romans 8:30)
WE ARE CONNECTED MORE THAN WE REALIZE.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
Hi Runningman
Anyone or anything that would compete with the loyalty to the Only and True God.
To compete means to demand a different course of action which is not the Will of the Father.
The Bible does not present Jesus calling for an action against the will of the Father. On the contrary, He always said that He only spoke and did what the Father asked him to speak and do.
In contrast, the Bible presents people like Peter taking such an action.
For example, at some point, Peter could have encouraged a person to deny Christ in order to escape death. People following Peter over Christ would have taken Peter's example and not Christ's Those people would have made of Peter an idol.
That example based around Peter makes no sense. Not really useful to say Peter would give something contrary to Christ. Even if someone did follow Peter's advice that was hypothetically contrary to Christ, that does not make Peter an idol. Not sure what this example even means.
For me, I pray to God in Jesus Name because the Jesus "of the Bible" instructs me so. It is one of HIS SAYINGS, and because I Love Him, I strive to do those things which please Him. Some of His Sayings are more difficult for me than others. But His Instruction on how to Pray and who to pray to is very easy to understand, and easy to obey. A child can easily understand His instructions concerning how and who to pray to, in my view.
John 14: 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask "in my name", that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And "I will pray the Father", and he shall give you another Comforter, "that he may abide with you for ever"; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, "neither knoweth him": but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Matt. 6: 5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, "pray to thy Father" which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.
It seems more important to me, to follow the instructions of the Lord's Christ that HIS God sent to us, than worry about the labels this world's religious sects and businesses might stick us with. (false christian, legalist, Judaizer, anti-Christ, etc.) After all, Jesus did say that those who followed Him would be disliked by many, and HE did warn specifically about many deceivers "who come in His Name".
This seems important given that this same Jesus is standing on the Right Hand of His God and my God even now, advocating between me and His Father, the One True God.
In my understanding, a "Christian" is determined by their "works", not by who they "Profess to know" or who they "call Lord, Lord". They are to be "Christ-like" in deed and thought. Just because Pancho hasn't adopted Catholic or Armenian or Calvins or Wesley's religious philosophies, doesn't mean he can't be God's "workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them".
Luke 9: 49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils "in thy name"; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. 50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us "is for us".
It is the "WAY" that Jesus brought which leads to life. We are to "walk" in this "Way" or as HE Says, "Strive to Enter" this "Narrow Path". He walked in this way perfectly and invited others to join Him. (Deny ourself, pick up our cross, and "FOLLOW HIM". Calling Him Lord, Lord, means very little according to this same Christ, if we are not "doers" of His Sayings. Shall we not believe Him? It seems to me Pancho does.
John 10: 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am "the Son of God"?
37 If I do not the works "of my Father", believe me not.
38 But if I do, "though ye believe not me", believe the works: "that ye may know, and believe", that "the Father is in me", and I in him.
civic
Well-known member
yet you do not use exegesis in your method but instead eisegesis since you read every passage in the Bible through a unitarian lens which is biased and reveals your personal presuppositions when reading the scriptures.
That is a fact and you failed the college course of Hermeneutics 101.
conclusion : guilty as charged.
hope this helps !!!
you seemed to miss that Pancho treats false gods as the true god. Scripture identifies that you shall have no other gods before YHWH. Those who are Christians come to know the correct god through the Way.
I see that you are accusing him of such behavior, but you provide no evidence, and I have read his posts and have found that he honors and worships the SAME God that Jesus honored and worshipped. In fact, the EXACT Same God. And although he is privy to other gods (that are no gods), like Mithra, Zeus etc., he doesn't treat them in the same way as he does the One True God, the Father of the Jesus of the Bible.
I'm not sure why you would accuse him of such things.
There is an "image of God" that is created and promoted by this world's religions, "who come in Christ's Name". It is an image of God created in the likeness of a very handsome, long-haired man. There are statues and billboards and pictures of this "image of God", worshipped as God all over this world. The Jesus "of the Bible" that I have come to know, would never engage in or advocate in such behavior as it goes against the first and greatest commandment given us by His Father. As HE Himself teaches.
Luke 4: 3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, "but by every word of God".
5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: "for that is delivered unto me"; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
I know you will not answer my questions, as I have asked you questions many times, but to no avail. Nevertheless, I will ask another. "Who gave satan the power over all the kingdoms of this world?" And again: Was the religious sect of the Pharisees a "Kingdom of this world"?
7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the "Lord thy God", and him only shalt thou serve.
Didn't the Jesus "of the bible" say ""Seek you first the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness".
And when we find Him, what will HE do? Will HE not give us to HIS Son for cleansing?
Where is the Jesus "of the Bible" right now, if not at His Father's Mansion preparing a place for us? Where is the Jesus "of the Bible" at right now, if not at His Father's Right Hand, advocating between us and His God and my God? What is the Jesus "of the Bible" doing right now, if not Praying to His Father that HE might give the Spirit of Truth to those "true worshippers who worship His Father in Spirit and in Truth"?
