Israel is the Elect of God

[brightfame52]

Nothing there about God saving unbelievers

Thats an terrible indictment against the Death and Blood of Christ, to say He doesnt save unbelievers. He redeems unbelievers to God and takes away their unbelief Titus 2:14

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Unbelief is just another iniquity of the flesh folk going to hell for Rev 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

See people think their act of believing saved them from hell, and not Jesus Christ

 

[TomL]

Thats an terrible indictment against the Death and Blood of Christ, to say He doesnt save unbelievers. He redeems unbelievers to God and takes away their unbelief Titus 2:14

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Unbelief is just another iniquity of the flesh folk going to hell for Rev 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

See people think their act of believing saved them from hell, and not Jesus Christ

Still Nothing there about God saving unbelievers

 

[brightfame52]

Still Nothing there about God saving unbelievers

Thats an terrible indictment against the Death and Blood of Christ, to say He doesnt save unbelievers. He redeems unbelievers to God and takes away their unbelief Titus 2:14

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Unbelief is just another iniquity of the flesh folk going to hell for Rev 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

See people think their act of believing saved them from hell, and not Jesus Christ

 

[civic]

Believers

unbelievers do not have their sins taken Away

Acts 10:43 (KJV 1900) — 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

correct he is once again conflating believers with unbelievers.

 

[civic]

Still Nothing there about God saving unbelievers

thats because its nowhere found in the pages of scripture- his argument is nothing but a pile of straw.- a strawman.

 

[brightfame52]

correct he is once again conflating believers with unbelievers.

Cornelius was saved prior to believing the Gospel. So he was saved as an unbeliever. Before he heard the Gospel, God had already regenerated him and counted him righteous. Peter acknowledged that as well Acts 10:34-35

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

So Cornelius was already a forgiven sinner !

 

[civic]

Cornelius was saved prior to believing the Gospel. So he was saved as an unbeliever. Before he heard the Gospel, God had already regenerated him and counted him righteous. Peter acknowledged that as well Acts 10:34-35

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

So Cornelius was already a forgiven sinner !

nope he was not born again beforehand.

next

 

[jeremiah1five]

That is rather inconsistent that you "believe" scripture but you accept Gal 4:3-5 but you reject Rom 9:30-31. You also have claimed that your vision makes you equal or better than Paul in providing truth. However, you agree with Gal 4:3-5 but only in accord with your misunderstanding of it. So you are again deny the actual meaning of the verses you use to defend your view.
Gal 4:5 refers not to people who remain under the law. It refers to people that were under the law. That means they no longer are subject to the law. Even the next phrase shows that Paul and the Galatians are not included with "those/them" of the law but with the "we" who are receiving adoption as sons. Thus the scripture you trust speaks against the view that you hold. Your vision with a voice from heaven has stirred you into conflict with the truth over and over again.
I think you need to find a different verse that superficially affirms what you believe and say that is what makes your view so certain, instead of the previous failed proofs of your view.

It's not that I reject Romans 9. I know that whatever Saul said would not contradict what has already been written in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets.

So, go ahead and look for ways to enable you TO NOT obey what it written. Bottom line is this: That whatever is collected as the inspired Word of God called the New Testament, I know will not contradict what is written in the Old Testament. And knowing that the animal sacrifice under the Law was used by God to "cover" the sins of Israel for one year, God sending His own Son in the flesh, made of a woman, made under the Law [came] to redeem those under the Law and this identifies Israel. Nothing like this is as clearly said about Gentiles and since the high priest did not offer sacrifices for Gentiles living outside covenant - and this means every Gentiles not the seed of Abraham - the Gentiles are without atonement and that's the end of it.

Christ as High Priest did not pray for the world (Jn. 17:9) nor did He offer sacrifice for them. Christ came to redeem those under the Law and those under the Law are the children of Israel. Reading the Pentateuch makes all that clear.

 

[brightfame52]

nope he was not born again beforehand.

next

Jesus had pronounced Cornelius cleaned by God Acts 10 15

And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

The word cleansed is aorist tense and means has cleaned katharizō:
in a moral sense

1. to free from defilement of sin and from faults
2. to purify from wickedness
3. to free from guilt of sin, to purify

Plus what you ignored, Cornelius was working righteousness before he even met Peter Acts 10 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Now does a unregenerate sinner dead in sin work righteousness' ?

Does a dead unregenerate sinner has his prayers and alms accepted by the Lord ? Does an unregenerate have fear of God in their heart ?
Acts 10:2-4

2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.

4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God

 

[brightfame52]

It's not that I reject Romans 9. I know that whatever Saul said would not contradict what has already been written in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets.

So, go ahead and look for ways to enable you TO NOT obey what it written. Bottom line is this: That whatever is collected as the inspired Word of God called the New Testament, I know will not contradict what is written in the Old Testament. And knowing that the animal sacrifice under the Law was used by God to "cover" the sins of Israel for one year, God sending His own Son in the flesh, made of a woman, made under the Law [came] to redeem those under the Law and this identifies Israel. Nothing like this is as clearly said about Gentiles and since the high priest did not offer sacrifices for Gentiles living outside covenant - and this means every Gentiles not the seed of Abraham - the Gentiles are without atonement and that's the end of it.

Christ as High Priest did not pray for the world (Jn. 17:9) nor did He offer sacrifice for them. Christ came to redeem those under the Law and those under the Law are the children of Israel. Reading the Pentateuch makes all that clear.

May God deliver you from jewish fables !

 

[jeremiah1five]

You don't believe the scriptures I have and others have shown you already, may God be pleased to deliver you from Jewish fables!

Typical antisemite.

The children of Jacob were under the Law. The animal sacrifices were performed to atone for the sins of the children of Israel in the desert for one year until God would send Christ to redeem those under the Law once and forever. Here is my proof and what I believe because as a born-again Christian that's what I am commanded to do. So, if you are also born-again you are also under the same command. Work out your own salvation. But I know enough to recognize fake Christians. These are identified by professing Christ and rejecting His Word.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.

There is nothing as clearly said like this about Gentiles. And do you want to know why? Because Gentiles (non-Hebrew) are not in any covenant with God. From Abraham to Christ the purpose of God is to redeem a people to Himself of all mankind, and this He began to do when He created Adam made covenant with Abraham and finished His work on the cross of Christ. When Christ said from the cross, "It is finished" He meant that the plan of God to redeem those under the Law was complete. All Israel shall be saved.
Without doubt.
As for non-Hebrew Gentiles?
They are without a prayer (Jn. 17:9) and without a sacrifice for their sin. If they were atoned, they would be the seed of Abraham.
But they are not.

 

[jeremiah1five]

No you don't believe scripture

Unbelievers whether Jew or gebntile will not be saved. Believers whether Jew or Gentile will be saved

he issue is righteousness. - salvation

Read the texts

Romans 9:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Romans 10:1–21 (KJV 1900) — 1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.



Romans 11:1–7 (KJV 1900) — 1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded


Unbelieving Jews are not elect

Romans 11:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

This is the bottom line:

From Genesis to Malachi shows God's relationship with one people, a people identified as Hebrew. A people that are born from Abram the Hebrew. God made covenant with Abram and his seed. From Genesis to Malachi is recorded God's relationship with a certain people born from Abram the Hebrew. God made promises to this people and promised to deliver them. God instituted a system to begin doing that and it is found in the Mosaic Law. Animal sacrifices were mead to atone for the sins of these people for one year and this continued for hundreds of years. But it was a temporary system. In time God sent His Son made of a woman and made under the Law to redeem those under the Law and this people are identified as the children of Israel.

If there is any statement found in the New Covenant Scripture writings (Matthew to Revelation) that contradicts what is written from Genesis to Malachi, then it should be rejected. But I know there is nothing in the writings from Matthew to Revelation that contradicts what is written in the Hebrew Scripture. It comes down to interpretation. Any interpretation that contradicts what is written from Genesis to Malachi is and should be rejected. That's where I stand. So, if your interpretation of anything written from Matthew to Revelation contradicts the writings from Genesis to Malachi, then it should be rejected.
So, I don't know why your interpretation contradicts Genesis to Malachi.
Never mind. I know why. It's because the interpretation is wrong.

If your interpretation contradicts what Saul said here:

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:3–5.

Then I rejected that interpretation.

You should know better than that.
Correction. It appears you do not.

Any interpretation you come up with, if it contradicts what is written from Genesis to Malachi, then you should try again so that your interpretation doesn't contradict what God has said from Genesis to Malachi.

 

[TomL]

This is the bottom line:

From Genesis to Malachi shows God's relationship with one people, a people identified as Hebrew. A people that are born from Abram the Hebrew. God made covenant with Abram and his seed. From Genesis to Malachi is recorded God's relationship with a certain people born from Abram the Hebrew. God made promises to this people and promised to deliver them. God instituted a system to begin doing that and it is found in the Mosaic Law. Animal sacrifices were mead to atone for the sins of these people for one year and this continued for hundreds of years. But it was a temporary system. In time God sent His Son made of a woman and made under the Law to redeem those under the Law and this people are identified as the children of Israel.

If there is any statement found in the New Covenant Scripture writings (Matthew to Revelation) that contradicts what is written from Genesis to Malachi, then it should be rejected. But I know there is nothing in the writings from Matthew to Revelation that contradicts what is written in the Hebrew Scripture. It comes down to interpretation. Any interpretation that contradicts what is written from Genesis to Malachi is and should be rejected. That's where I stand. So, if your interpretation of anything written from Matthew to Revelation contradicts the writings from Genesis to Malachi, then it should be rejected.
So, I don't know why your interpretation contradicts Genesis to Malachi.
Never mind. I know why. It's because the interpretation is wrong.

If your interpretation contradicts what Saul said here:

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:3–5.

Then I rejected that interpretation.

You should know better than that.
Correction. It appears you do not.

Any interpretation you come up with, if it contradicts what is written from Genesis to Malachi, then you should try again so that your interpretation doesn't contradict what God has said from Genesis to Malachi.

Sorry you assume that statement assures that all who had the law would be saved

that is plainly false

That outlines a desire, a goal, but is not a declaration of fact

and your assumption is contradicted by scripture

Romans 9:27–29 (KJV 1900) — 27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: 28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. 29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

 

[TomL]

thats because its nowhere found in the pages of scripture- his argument is nothing but a pile of straw.- a strawman.

A figment of his imagination or the imagination of someone from whom he gets his/her theology

 

[TomL]

correct he is once again conflating believers with unbelievers.

His/her theology is quite convoluted because of hyper calvinism

 

[jeremiah1five]

Sorry you assume that statement assures that all who had the law would be saved

that is plainly false

That outlines a desire, a goal, but is not a declaration of fact

and your assumption is contradicted by scripture

Romans 9:27–29 (KJV 1900) — 27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: 28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. 29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

Direct contradiction of God's Word.

But unbelievers have a tendency of doing that.

 

[brightfame52]

Typical antisemite.

The children of Jacob were under the Law. The animal sacrifices were performed to atone for the sins of the children of Israel in the desert for one year until God would send Christ to redeem those under the Law once and forever. Here is my proof and what I believe because as a born-again Christian that's what I am commanded to do. So, if you are also born-again you are also under the same command. Work out your own salvation. But I know enough to recognize fake Christians. These are identified by professing Christ and rejecting His Word.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.

There is nothing as clearly said like this about Gentiles. And do you want to know why? Because Gentiles (non-Hebrew) are not in any covenant with God. From Abraham to Christ the purpose of God is to redeem a people to Himself of all mankind, and this He began to do when He created Adam made covenant with Abraham and finished His work on the cross of Christ. When Christ said from the cross, "It is finished" He meant that the plan of God to redeem those under the Law was complete. All Israel shall be saved.
Without doubt.
As for non-Hebrew Gentiles?
They are without a prayer (Jn. 17:9) and without a sacrifice for their sin. If they were atoned, they would be the seed of Abraham.
But they are not.

I have shown you many scriptures and you reject it,, cant get away from them jewish fables.

 

[TomL]

Direct contradiction of God's Word.

But unbelievers have a tendency of doing that.

Um this was the word of God

Romans 9:27–29 (KJV 1900) — 27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: 28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. 29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I have shown you many scriptures and you reject it,, cant get away from them jewish fables.

Jewish history and culture. Jewish covenants, prophets, Scripture, characters, Temples, Tabernacle, all of it Jewish and none of it fables.
You're infected with false Gentile theology that has blinded you from the truth of Scripture. I used to believe all that Gentile-biased theology but not anymore. I am free indeed!
Too bad you don't see. You have to open your eyes to see, but then again God controls the seeing eye and the hearing ear, not you.
You are as you are because God has deemed it that way. Just pray God remove the error of YOUR ways and show you His.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Um this was the word of God

Romans 9:27–29 (KJV 1900) — 27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: 28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. 29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

I know what it says. It's your interpretation that is in error, not Scripture because everything in the New Covenant writings will not contradict the Old Covenant writings. This means that the animal sacrifices under the Mosaic Covenant that was offered yearly for the sins of the children of Israel was never offered for the sins of Gentiles.
Christ, in the place of the animal sacrifice as the Lamb of God was offered for the sins of the children of Israel, not for Gentiles. Christ as High Priest doesn't even pray for Gentiles. If He doesn't pray for them right before He's to go to the cross as He prayed for the children of Israel, then Gentiles are without a prayer.
They are not under the Law and never have been which means they are Law-less and do what they want leaning on their own understanding.

5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen. 6:5.

BUT NOAH found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
Noah was to be the great-great grandfather of Abram the Hebrew, so even before Abram God has a family that is under His protection and care. Follow the offspring. There are the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent and Noah, Shem, Salah, Eber, Abram, this whole family has relationship with Creator God. Those that are disobedient were wiped off the face of the earth. And from Noah to Abram to Isaac to Jacob to the twelve tribes of Jacob, God has covenant with ONE family line of His choosing and Gentiles are NOT among the blessed of Abraham because Gentiles are NOT his seed.