brightfame52
Well-known member
Whoever Jesus died for, sins/unbelief has been taken away, You dont believe that, you cannot believe the Gospel 1 Jn 3:5
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Israel is the Elect of God
- Thread starter jeremiah1five
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5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Nope
The our is believers
Acts 10:43 (KJV 1900) — 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
but Christ died for all
Hebrews 2:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Whoever Jesus died for, sins/unbelief has been taken away, You dont believe that, you cannot believe the Gospel 1 Jn 3:5
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
The our is believers
Acts 10:43 (KJV 1900) — 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
but Christ died for all
Hebrews 2:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Whoever Jesus died for, sins/unbelief has been taken away, You dont believe that, you cannot believe the Gospel 1 Jn 3:5
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
If He took away unbelief, you become a believer Duh
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Scripture please. Scripture that says Gentiles/all ethnicities are in the Abraham Covenant.
And quote from the Hebrew Scripture. Preferably in Genesis 15 and 17 when the covenant is first made. Because if Gentiles are not mentioned by God as being in the Abrahamic Covenant when He made those promises to Abraham, then any interpretation elsewhere would be false because the Scripture cannot be broken, and the covenant is with Abraham and his seed and Gentiles do not come from his seed.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Only if "all believers" are identified as those under the Law.
Christ is the fulfillment of covenant with Abraham and his seed and prophecy.
Christ came, died, resurrected to save Israel, they are the ones identified as being under the Law and the recipients of the blood of Christ.
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:3–5.
Case closed.
This IS the Word of God.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
I believe the Scripture:The issue is righteousness. - salvation
Read the texts
Romans 9:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Romans 10:1–21 (KJV 1900) — 1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
Romans 11:1–7 (KJV 1900) — 1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Unbelieving Jews are not elect
Romans 11:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:3–5.
Case closed.
That is rather inconsistent that you "believe" scripture but you accept Gal 4:3-5 but you reject Rom 9:30-31. You also have claimed that your vision makes you equal or better than Paul in providing truth. However, you agree with Gal 4:3-5 but only in accord with your misunderstanding of it. So you are again deny the actual meaning of the verses you use to defend your view.
Gal 4:5 refers not to people who remain under the law. It refers to people that were under the law. That means they no longer are subject to the law. Even the next phrase shows that Paul and the Galatians are not included with "those/them" of the law but with the "we" who are receiving adoption as sons. Thus the scripture you trust speaks against the view that you hold. Your vision with a voice from heaven has stirred you into conflict with the truth over and over again.
I think you need to find a different verse that superficially affirms what you believe and say that is what makes your view so certain, instead of the previous failed proofs of your view.
brightfame52
Well-known member
You don't believe the scriptures I have and others have shown you already, may God be pleased to deliver you from Jewish fables!
you must first stop delivering these Jewish fables. You seemed to have collected a lot of them.
I'm trying to help you work out some decent arguments, but it will take some time for you to drop the baggage that drag you down.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Do you believe the same way that gentleman do?
I have no idea what you mean. You keep on speaking nonsense
And I do believe the scriptures you share. The problem is they conflict with your view. So I follow the scriptures instead.
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brightfame52
Well-known member
Then you out of line
No you don't believe scripture
Unbelievers whether Jew or gebntile will not be saved. Believers whether Jew or Gentile will be saved
he issue is righteousness. - salvation
Read the texts
Romans 9:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Romans 10:1–21 (KJV 1900) — 1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.Romans 11:1–7 (KJV 1900) — 1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Unbelieving Jews are not elect
Romans 11:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Utter nonsense
The sins of all believers are taken away
Ephesians 1:3–13 (KJV 1900) — 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Colossians 2:10–13 (KJV 1900) — 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Acts 26:13–18 (KJV 1900) — 13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. 14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. 16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
everything you quoted from scripture speaks against you. The elect of the Jews were saved and the nation was destroyed. That means there is nothing left of the law and nation and old covenant any longer on the earth. That means no one can know Christ any more per your interpretations.No you don't believe scripture
Unbelievers whether Jew or gebntile will not be saved. Believers whether Jew or Gentile will be saved
he issue is righteousness. - salvation
Read the texts
Romans 9:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Romans 10:1–21 (KJV 1900) — 1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
Romans 11:1–7 (KJV 1900) — 1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Unbelieving Jews are not elect
Romans 11:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Not mine I do not believe only those who had the law will be saved, that is his position.
brightfame52
Well-known member
@TomL
Thats an terrible indictment against the Death and Blood of Christ, to say He doesnt save unbelievers. He redeems unbelievers to God and takes away their unbelief Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Unbelief is just another iniquity of the flesh folk going to hell for Rev 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
See people think their act of believing saved them from hell, and not Jesus Christ
Thats an terrible indictment against the Death and Blood of Christ, to say He doesnt save unbelievers. He redeems unbelievers to God and takes away their unbelief Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Unbelief is just another iniquity of the flesh folk going to hell for Rev 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
See people think their act of believing saved them from hell, and not Jesus Christ
Nothing there about God saving unbelievers
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