Isaiah and the trinity

[TomL]

God is the Spirit in Genesis 1:2. did you not read? John 4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." and there is only "ONE" Spirit.

101G. (the anti-christ)

The issue is Isaiah 40:18-22


Isaiah 40:18–22 (LEB) — 18 And to whom will you liken God? And to what likeness will you compare him? 19 A craftsman pours out the idol, and a goldsmith overlays it with gold, and he smelts chains of silver. 20 The one who is too impoverished for a gift chooses wood that will not rot; he seeks a skillful artisan for himself to set up an image that will not be knocked over. 21 Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told to you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundation of the earth? 22 He is the one who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; the one who stretches out the heavens like a veil and spreads them out like a tent to live in,

and that posters claim verse 22 is a necessary reference to the Spirit alone

You are off topic

 

[101G]

The issue is Isaiah 40:18-22

the issue is over, you cannot understand. my God.

101G. (AKA the anti-christ)

 

[TomL]

the issue is over, you cannot understand. my God.

101G. (AKA the anti-christ)

Your God does not exist and is a product of your misunderstanding

 

[7xLightray]

Why not? I did

Deuteronomy 4:39 (LEB) — 39 So you shall acknowledge today, and you must call to mind that Yahweh is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath. There is no other God.

Deuteronomy 5:8 (LEB) — 8 ‘You shall not make for yourself a divine image of any type of form that is in the heaven above or that is on the earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth.

Joshua 2:11 (LEB) — 11 We heard this, and our hearts melted, and no courage was left in anyone because of your presence. For Yahweh your God is God in the heavens above and on the earth below.

1 Kings 8:23 (LEB) — 23 and he said, “O Yahweh, God of Israel, there is no god like you in the heavens above or on the earth beneath, keeping the covenant and the loyal love for your servants who are walking before you with all their heart.

Context is important!

"Deuteronomy 4:39 (LEB) — 39 So you shall acknowledge today, and you must call to mind that Yahweh is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath. There is no other God."

It also says Deu 4:32 "For ask now of the days that are past, which were before you, since the day that God created man on the earth, and ask from one end of heaven to the other, whether such a great thing as this has ever happened or was ever heard of."
Context, God is not telling them to actually go to heaven and start asking everyone in heaven. Or, suggesting that while they are existing on earth, they are also existing in heaven.
And if we keep it in context, the understanding is not about God being in Heaven, or on earth, but that He is a for real mighty ruler over heaven and earth, and there is no other who did such great acts on earth, so we are to listen to Him (starting from v32 to v40, noticing v32,35,39, then 40). You do know God sends angels (messengers) to earth to do His bidding.

This is how I understand Deu 4:37.
Deu 4:37 And because he loved your fathers and chose their offspring after them and brought you out of Egypt with his own presence, by his great power,
Exo 33:14 And he said, “My presence will go with you, and I will give you rest.”
Exo 33:15 And he said to him, “If your presence will not go with me, do not bring us up from here. [His presence is limited to one man here]
Jos 1:5 No man shall be able to stand before you all the days of your life. Just as I was with Moses, so I will be with you. I will not leave you or forsake you. [again, His presence limited to one man here, as Moses]
Isa 63:9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence [this would be a holy, very high ranking, near to God, heavenly being. And the experience would be the same thing, or very similar as being in the presence God. A little extra: And who is also a type of Christ in this age, this whole chapter is about Christ in this age] saved them; in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; he lifted them up and carried them all the days of old.
Isa 63:10 But they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit [it does not say, "grieved the Holy Spirit, but grieved his Holy Spirit"] therefore he turned to be their enemy, and himself fought against them.
Isa 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, of Moses and his people. Where is he who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of his flock? Where is he who put in the midst of them his Holy Spirit, [notice the wording; which was by Moses]
Isa 63:12 who caused his glorious arm to go at the right hand of Moses, [this is referring to God's power, His presence, His holy spirit, which was with Moses, the power at his right hand,..] who divided the waters before them to make for himself an everlasting name,
"His own presence" + "who put in the midst of them his Holy Spirit (God who gives gifts to man 1Cor 12:4; Heb 2:4)" + "by His great power" + "who caused his glorious arm to go at the right hand of Moses" is "his Holy Spirit," His power, His image" that He sends.

Deuteronomy 5:8 (LEB) — 8 ‘You shall not make for yourself a divine image of any type of form that is in the heaven above or that is on the earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth.
I do not know what Deu 5:8 has to do with the discussion.

Joshua 2:11 (LEB) — 11 We heard this, and our hearts melted, and no courage was left in anyone because of your presence. For Yahweh your God is God in the heavens above and on the earth below.
Again context. For one, how did Rahab know whether God was sitting/hovering above the circle of earth, or waters. She is speaking about how God not only acts/works in heaven but on earth, like no other God does, a terrifying God.

1 Kings 8:23 (LEB) — 23 and he said, “O Yahweh, God of Israel, there is no god like you in the heavens above or on the earth beneath, keeping the covenant and the loyal love for your servants who are walking before you with all their heart.
This is not speaking of God being in heaven, or on earth. This says there are no other gods in the heavens or on the earth like the God of Israel. God's spirit is sent to earth, His power.

Okay, I've been answering, and answering all your questions, (if i missed one of your points, sorry, you do not make yourself very clear when you plop down a passage with no, to very little explanation(s). You leave me guessing at what point(s) you might be making, which I've been pointing out to you, and have been ignoring.

I been asking, and asking, if you would come out from the shadows and make yourself clear, one post, on Isa 40:18-22 with Genesis. At least, since you are correcting me, should you not show and teach me that passage, and the answer, all of it! Should I not know how you follow the directions of Isa 40:18-22, or even if you can, and how you answer them from the foundations of the earth, since you are correcting me! This is not like dealing with a straightforward person, especially a teacher of correction who feels he does not need to share his doctrine, deflecting the same question over and over, because everyone should believe his word, yet, denies the one who does. - What is that about!

 

[101G]

Your God does not exist and is a product of your misunderstanding

personal opinion again... next........ address the scriptures, and not 101G

101G. (AKA the anti-christ).

 

[7xLightray]

Seriously? Covertly?

All that is God is above the earth

Isa 48:12-22 does not direct us to the spirit alone

but

Genesis 1:1 (LEB) — 1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth—

Are the heaven not above the earth?

Genesis 1:1–5 (LEB) — 1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth— 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. 3 And God said, “Let there be light!” And there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good, and God caused there to be a separation between the light and between the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

Do you not read God and the Spirit of God?

Genesis 1:26 (LEB) — 26 And God said, “Let us make humankind in our image and according to our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of heaven, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every moving thing that moves upon the earth.”

Do you not see the plurals?

What do mean, not answering your verses?!
Firstly, we are only suppose to be in Isa 18:22, and in the beginning of Genesis (for now anyway), and you showing me, teaching me, how you understand Isa 18:22 and the beginning of Genesis, because you are trying to correct me, saying I am wrong, without telling me how you understand "Isa 18:22 and in the beginning of Genesis!" Instead, you are taking me on "The Bible Tour!" We've seen passages from here, and from there, and verses galore, all over the Bible, except answering and explaining Isa 18:22 and the beginning of Genesis!

"Seriously?" well, concerning the things of God, when Ananias and Sapphira were desiring to be manipulative (over something they were free to do as they willed), tried to covertly keep it secret, and fibbed about how much they sold their house for, and the amount given, God took it dead serious. Not only that, but when the Jews, God's own people, or those that considered to be His people, received the truth, then rejected it, God sent 70AD!

"Covertly?" what would you call it when one knew the other was waiting for verse(s), or passage(s), from Genesis, and one sends verses that are not from Genesis, with little to no explanation, and when asked this one says, they already showed, and accuse the other of ignoring them, and when not found, this one question why the other could not find them! That is not the spirit of my God!

Why would/should I trust you to teach me, if you refuse to teach me! And show me, how you understand them (Isa 18:22 and in the beginning of Genesis)!

This is not what I said, "Isa 48:12-22 does not direct us to the spirit alone" nor my point. What I'm saying in that post was that Isa 40:12-22 points to Genesis. And that would be because of "Isa 40:21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?" My point had nothing to do with, or about, the spirit, or the spirit alone.

Yes, heaven is above the earth, but you are ignoring passages that talk about God descending and ascending, which makes no sense, if one is already in both places. God can send His spirit, and He can send His word down and out from heaven!

Yes, I read God and the Spirit of God.

Yes, I see the plurals? Do you not see the plurals? Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Enough of these endless deflections, are you going to teach me Isa 18:22 and in the beginning of Genesis, and justify yourself as a teacher of correction, and teach these, or not!
If you want me to answer the rest of your posts, teach me this "Isa 18:22 and in the beginning of Genesis!" Otherwise, what right do you have to correct anyone on these passages, verses, if you will not explain them yourself?! And, more so wise, your correction(s) are vapor and smoke!

 

[TomL]

What do mean, not answering your verses?!
Firstly, we are only suppose to be in Isa 18:22, and in the beginning of Genesis (for now anyway), and you showing me, teaching me, how you understand Isa 18:22 and the beginning of Genesis, because you are trying to correct me, saying I am wrong, without telling me how you understand "Isa 18:22 and in the beginning of Genesis!" Instead, you are taking me on "The Bible Tour!" We've seen passages from here, and from there, and verses galore, all over the Bible, except answering and explaining Isa 18:22 and the beginning of Genesis!

Isa 18?

No We were not discussing Isaiah 18

You claimed

Isaiah 40:18–22 (LEB) — 18 And to whom will you liken God? And to what likeness will you compare him? 19 A craftsman pours out the idol, and a goldsmith overlays it with gold, and he smelts chains of silver. 20 The one who is too impoverished for a gift chooses wood that will not rot; he seeks a skillful artisan for himself to set up an image that will not be knocked over. 21 Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told to you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundation of the earth? 22 He is the one who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; the one who stretches out the heavens like a veil and spreads them out like a tent to live in,

Verse 22 refers to the Spirit alone based on

Genesis 1:2 (LEB) — 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

While it is true all that is God is above the earth

While it is also true verses can be found attributing creation to the Father and to the son and to the Holy Spirit so that all that is God is involved in creation

which you cannot refute

verse 2 of Genesis notes the Spirit's work preparing for the creative word of God

 

[TomL]

personal opinion again... next........ address the scriptures, and not 101G

101G. (AKA the anti-christ).

101G is giving us his personal opinion officially shared by no one group

 

[TomL]

Context is important!

"Deuteronomy 4:39 (LEB) — 39 So you shall acknowledge today, and you must call to mind that Yahweh is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath. There is no other God."

It also says Deu 4:32 "For ask now of the days that are past, which were before you, since the day that God created man on the earth, and ask from one end of heaven to the other, whether such a great thing as this has ever happened or was ever heard of."
Context, God is not telling them to actually go to heaven and start asking everyone in heaven. Or, suggesting that while they are existing on earth, they are also existing in heaven.
And if we keep it in context, the understanding is not about God being in Heaven, or on earth, but that He is a for real mighty ruler over heaven and earth, and there is no other who did such great acts on earth, so we are to listen to Him (starting from v32 to v40, noticing v32,35,39, then 40). You do know God sends angels (messengers) to earth to do His bidding.

This is how I understand Deu 4:37.
Deu 4:37 And because he loved your fathers and chose their offspring after them and brought you out of Egypt with his own presence, by his great power,
Exo 33:14 And he said, “My presence will go with you, and I will give you rest.”
Exo 33:15 And he said to him, “If your presence will not go with me, do not bring us up from here. [His presence is limited to one man here]
Jos 1:5 No man shall be able to stand before you all the days of your life. Just as I was with Moses, so I will be with you. I will not leave you or forsake you. [again, His presence limited to one man here, as Moses]
Isa 63:9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence [this would be a holy, very high ranking, near to God, heavenly being. And the experience would be the same thing, or very similar as being in the presence God. A little extra: And who is also a type of Christ in this age, this whole chapter is about Christ in this age] saved them; in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; he lifted them up and carried them all the days of old.
Isa 63:10 But they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit [it does not say, "grieved the Holy Spirit, but grieved his Holy Spirit"] therefore he turned to be their enemy, and himself fought against them.
Isa 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, of Moses and his people. Where is he who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of his flock? Where is he who put in the midst of them his Holy Spirit, [notice the wording; which was by Moses]
Isa 63:12 who caused his glorious arm to go at the right hand of Moses, [this is referring to God's power, His presence, His holy spirit, which was with Moses, the power at his right hand,..] who divided the waters before them to make for himself an everlasting name,
"His own presence" + "who put in the midst of them his Holy Spirit (God who gives gifts to man 1Cor 12:4; Heb 2:4)" + "by His great power" + "who caused his glorious arm to go at the right hand of Moses" is "his Holy Spirit," His power, His image" that He sends.

Deuteronomy 5:8 (LEB) — 8 ‘You shall not make for yourself a divine image of any type of form that is in the heaven above or that is on the earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth.
I do not know what Deu 5:8 has to do with the discussion.

Joshua 2:11 (LEB) — 11 We heard this, and our hearts melted, and no courage was left in anyone because of your presence. For Yahweh your God is God in the heavens above and on the earth below.
Again context. For one, how did Rahab know whether God was sitting/hovering above the circle of earth, or waters. She is speaking about how God not only acts/works in heaven but on earth, like no other God does, a terrifying God.

1 Kings 8:23 (LEB) — 23 and he said, “O Yahweh, God of Israel, there is no god like you in the heavens above or on the earth beneath, keeping the covenant and the loyal love for your servants who are walking before you with all their heart.
This is not speaking of God being in heaven, or on earth. This says there are no other gods in the heavens or on the earth like the God of Israel. God's spirit is sent to earth, His power.

Okay, I've been answering, and answering all your questions, (if i missed one of your points, sorry, you do not make yourself very clear when you plop down a passage with no, to very little explanation(s). You leave me guessing at what point(s) you might be making, which I've been pointing out to you, and have been ignoring.

I been asking, and asking, if you would come out from the shadows and make yourself clear, one post, on Isa 40:18-22 with Genesis. At least, since you are correcting me, should you not show and teach me that passage, and the answer, all of it! Should I not know how you follow the directions of Isa 40:18-22, or even if you can, and how you answer them from the foundations of the earth, since you are correcting me! This is not like dealing with a straightforward person, especially a teacher of correction who feels he does not need to share his doctrine, deflecting the same question over and over, because everyone should believe his word, yet, denies the one who does. - What is that about!

Do you require a road map

I show you Isa 40:22 is true of all that is God

God refers to Father, son and Holy Spirit

The Father is the creative head

The Son the workman

The Spirit's work not so clearly defined but the spirit gives life

Job 33:4 (LEB) — 4 The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of Shaddai gives life to me.

All are involved in creation and all are above the circle of the earth which is not a specific reference to hovering over the water as per Gen 1:2

You want to take one verse and ignore all other which show God is above the earth

 

[101G]

101G is giving us his personal opinion officially shared by no one group

prove it then.... (smile)

101G. (AKA the anti-christ).

 

[TomL]

prove it then.... (smile)

101G. (AKA the anti-christ).

Already did

You just ignore the evidence

 

[101G]

Already did

You just ignore the evidence

Just as 101G say, address the scriptures and not 101G. now did 101G not address your Zechariah scripture concerning who sent Jehovah. then you said,

Do you require a road map

I show you Isa 40:22 is true of all that is God

God refers to Father, son and Holy Spirit

if this is true, then address Revelation 4:11 as to who sits on the throne. see 101G address scriptures and not the person. so who sits on the throne in Revelation 4:11. this will answer your Isa 40:22 and your Zechariah scripture, and your John 17:3 question.

so think before you answer.


101G. (AKA the spiritual saboteur), (AKA the anti-christ)

 

[TomL]

Just as 101G say, address the scriptures and not 101G. now did 101G not address your Zechariah scripture concerning who sent Jehovah. then you said,

Been there done that

unsucessfully

Zechariah 2:6–11 (LEB) — 6 “Woe! Woe! Flee from the land of the north,” declares Yahweh, “for I have scattered you like the four winds of the heavens,” declares Yahweh. 7 “Woe, Zion! Escape, you inhabitants of the daughter of Babylon!” 8 For thus said Yahweh of hosts, after glory he sent me against the nations plundering you: Truly, the one touching you is touching the apple of his eye. 9 “Yes, look! I am going to wave my hand against them, and they will become plunder for their servants, and you will know that Yahweh of hosts has sent me. 10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion, for look, I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,” declares Yahweh. 11 “Many nations will join themselves to Yahweh on that day, and they will be my people, and I will dwell in your midst. And you will know that Yahweh of hosts has sent me to you.

Yahweh the speaker states Yahweh of host has sent me

Multiple times

Zechariah 4:8–9 (LEB) — 8 And the word of Yahweh came to me, saying, 9 “The hands of Zerubbabel have founded this house, and his hands will finish it. And you will know that Yahweh of hosts has sent me to you.

It is pretty clear there are more than one here

if this is true, then address Revelation 4:11 as to who sits on the throne. see 101G address scriptures and not the person. so who sits on the throne in Revelation 4:11. this will answer your Isa 40:22 and your Zechariah scripture, and your John 17:3 question.

Isa 40

Isaiah 40:18–22 (LEB) — 18 And to whom will you liken God? And to what likeness will you compare him? 19 A craftsman pours out the idol, and a goldsmith overlays it with gold, and he smelts chains of silver. 20 The one who is too impoverished for a gift chooses wood that will not rot; he seeks a skillful artisan for himself to set up an image that will not be knocked over. 21 Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told to you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundation of the earth? 22 He is the one who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; the one who stretches out the heavens like a veil and spreads them out like a tent to live in,

Has nothing to do with who sits on the throne (PS there are more than one throne in heaven)

That Jesus created is affirmed by

John 1:3 Colossians 1:16 Hebrews 1:2, 10; Ephesians 3:9 (KJV) 1Corinthians 8:6

That the spirit created

Job 33:4 (LEB) — 4 The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of Shaddai gives life to me.

The Father and Jesus

1 Corinthians 8:6 (LEB) — 6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we are for him, and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we are through him.

 

[7xLightray]

Isa 18?

No We were not discussing Isaiah 18

You claimed

Isaiah 40:18–22 (LEB) — 18 And to whom will you liken God? And to what likeness will you compare him? 19 A craftsman pours out the idol, and a goldsmith overlays it with gold, and he smelts chains of silver. 20 The one who is too impoverished for a gift chooses wood that will not rot; he seeks a skillful artisan for himself to set up an image that will not be knocked over. 21 Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told to you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundation of the earth? 22 He is the one who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; the one who stretches out the heavens like a veil and spreads them out like a tent to live in,

Verse 22 refers to the Spirit alone based on

Genesis 1:2 (LEB) — 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

While it is true all that is God is above the earth

While it is also true verses can be found attributing creation to the Father and to the son and to the Holy Spirit so that all that is God is involved in creation

which you cannot refute

verse 2 of Genesis notes the Spirit's work preparing for the creative word of God

Sorry, my bad! You did not recognize that it was obvious typo's "Isa 18:22" instead of "Isa 40:18-22" which we have been discussing from the very beginning? How many times have I had to type it, and why?

I'm not refuting that the Father, son, and holy spirit, or all that is God, were involved in creation, but it is in all in how we understand it. You say three persons, Jesus in Jn 17:3 made it perfectly clear to me, we are to know only two persons for life eternal, period, stop. And that the father is the only true God, period, stop.

So, it comes down to understanding the Son, how is Jesus God's only begotten Son, equal to God, equal to Man. And there are (about) two ways. Ether, a person (or something) came down from heaven and put on created flesh as a coat, which most "Christians," or "Christian" religions teach, or God's spoken word came down from heaven and became the Man Jesus Christ, the word actually became flesh, everything equal to God.
The other way Jesus is not a true son, and you are worshipping created fallen corrupted flesh.
In 1 Jn 1:1 Hands, is in the Nominative, the subject of the sentence, when they touched with their own hands the body of Jesus, what you are saying to me, is they were touching with their onw hands the attribute life. And, that Jesus' flesh from Mary's created fallen flesh, that the disciples touched, was the word of life. How do I make sense out of any of that! Your doctrine does not work with all verses, it makes the word of God void and unintelligible.

And only one of these doctrines work with all scripture, and it ain't Rev 13:1-2.

 

[7xLightray]

Do you require a road map

I show you Isa 40:22 is true of all that is God

God refers to Father, son and Holy Spirit

The Father is the creative head

The Son the workman

The Spirit's work not so clearly defined but the spirit gives life

Job 33:4 (LEB) — 4 The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of Shaddai gives life to me.

All are involved in creation and all are above the circle of the earth which is not a specific reference to hovering over the water as per Gen 1:2

You want to take one verse and ignore all other which show God is above the earth

Yes, okay, I need a road map, I don't care how you word it, I just need you to explain it like you are explaining it to a seventh grader hearing it for the first time. I am expecting for you to post that passage, and verses (at the very least Isa 40:18-22 for now, then Gen 1:26-27) commenting carefully on each verse (well verses 19 and 20 of Isa 40 may not be needed to be explain, so only three verses minimum), showing your understanding of those verses, and show in them how you arrived at your understanding.
Why? Because I do not see your opinion, philosophy, interpretation, in those verses (not anymore, though, I understand why you believe the way you do). Hence, why you think you need to correct me. And therefore, seeing as you wish to correct me, you need to show this elder you are able to teach what is written, and justify yourself as a teacher of correction. So are you going to dissect those verses, so I can see what you see, instead of you telling me I am in error, and throwing verses at me that make no difference whatsoever to this doctrine which I teach? Show me you are qualified to teach these and correct me! That is why!

So, why should I listen, if your are not able to clearly follow the directions of the Bible, or if I see your reading comprehension is seriously lacking. - there is normal comprehension, and there is very abnormal comprehension skills (that some love to use at times).

If you want me to answer the rest of your posts, dissect and teach me this "Isa 40:18-22 and in the beginning of Genesis!" Otherwise, what right do you have to correct me on these passages, verses, if you will not explain them yourself?!

Where is Isa 40:21-22 sending you?
I literally have Gen 1:27 stating God's image of Himself, and explaining it in Gen 2:22-24, and Isa 40:18-22 telling me that is where His image is, and that is where it is explained. And when I look there what do I find, God's image is there, and it is explained, but that is not good enough for you?! So, you will have to find within these verses why I should not believe all that I just stated! On top of that, I do not believe you can. That's why!

This is not a full commentary, but it should be good enough to show what you mean. Comment on the verse below, something like the comments below. But all we need for now is Isa 40:18, 21-22. Just so I can see how you interpret them.

Isa 40:18 To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him? [I know what this verse is asking, do you?]
Isa 40:21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth? [There is one place this found! One place it is told! And one place where it should be understood! I clearly see this verse sends me to the beginning of Genesis. If not, why not?]
Isa 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, [And one place in the Genesis story that something like this is mentioned! All I can find is Gen 1:2. What did you find?]
Gen 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.." [so there should be an image of more than one]
Gen 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." [This states the image of God! I find the only thing God made in His image here, is one male, and one female. What did you find?]

These next verses explain the image of God.
Gen 2:22 "And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man." [The word/rib always exited in the Father, the rib/word taken from God, He made His Son, equal to God, who retuned to God! What did you find?]
Gen 2:23 "And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man." [The word taken from God became flesh equal to God, because the son came out of God, and was made from God's spirit/breath!]
Gen 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." [Jesus said that He and the Father are one!]

 

[TomL]

Yes, okay, I need a road map, I don't care how you word it, I just need you to explain it like you are explaining it to a seventh grader hearing it for the first time. I am expecting for you to post that passage, and verses (at the very least Isa 40:18-22 for now, then Gen 1:26-27) commenting carefully on each verse (well verses 19 and 20 of Isa 40 may not be needed to be explain, so only three verses minimum), showing your understanding of those verses, and show in them how you arrived at your understanding.
Why? Because I do not see your opinion, philosophy, interpretation, in those verses (not anymore, though, I understand why you believe the way you do). Hence, why you think you need to correct me. And therefore, seeing as you wish to correct me, you need to show this elder you are able to teach what is written, and justify yourself as a teacher of correction. So are you going to dissect those verses, so I can see what you see, instead of you telling me I am in error, and throwing verses at me that make no difference whatsoever to this doctrine which I teach? Show me you are qualified to teach these and correct me! That is why!

So, why should I listen, if your are not able to clearly follow the directions of the Bible, or if I see your reading comprehension is seriously lacking. - there is normal comprehension, and there is very abnormal comprehension skills (that some love to use at times).

If you want me to answer the rest of your posts, dissect and teach me this "Isa 40:18-22 and in the beginning of Genesis!" Otherwise, what right do you have to correct me on these passages, verses, if you will not explain them yourself?!

Where is Isa 40:21-22 sending you?
I literally have Gen 1:27 stating God's image of Himself, and explaining it in Gen 2:22-24, and Isa 40:18-22 telling me that is where His image is, and that is where it is explained. And when I look there what do I find, God's image is there, and it is explained, but that is not good enough for you?! So, you will have to find within these verses why I should not believe all that I just stated! On top of that, I do not believe you can. That's why!

This is not a full commentary, but it should be good enough to show what you mean. Comment on the verse below, something like the comments below. But all we need for now is Isa 40:18, 21-22. Just so I can see how you interpret them.

Isa 40:18 To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him? [I know what this verse is asking, do you?]
Isa 40:21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth? [There is one place this found! One place it is told! And one place where it should be understood! I clearly see this verse sends me to the beginning of Genesis. If not, why not?]
Isa 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, [And one place in the Genesis story that something like this is mentioned! All I can find is Gen 1:2. What did you find?]
Gen 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.." [so there should be an image of more than one]
Gen 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." [This states the image of God! I find the only thing God made in His image here, is one male, and one female. What did you find?]

These next verses explain the image of God.
Gen 2:22 "And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man." [The word/rib always exited in the Father, the rib/word taken from God, He made His Son, equal to God, who retuned to God! What did you find?]
Gen 2:23 "And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man." [The word taken from God became flesh equal to God, because the son came out of God, and was made from God's spirit/breath!]
Gen 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." [Jesus said that He and the Father are one!]

You think God has ribs, flesh and bones ?

God is a Spirit not a physical being

John 4:24 (LEB) — 24 God is spirit, and the ones who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Luke 24:39 (LEB) — 39 Look at my hands and my feet, that I am I myself! Touch me and see, because a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see that I have.”

Isaiah 40:18–22 (LEB) — 18 And to whom will you liken God? And to what likeness will you compare him? 19 A craftsman pours out the idol, and a goldsmith overlays it with gold, and he smelts chains of silver. 20 The one who is too impoverished for a gift chooses wood that will not rot; he seeks a skillful artisan for himself to set up an image that will not be knocked over. 21 Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told to you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundation of the earth? 22 He is the one who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; the one who stretches out the heavens like a veil and spreads them out like a tent to live in,

Nothing is like God. Man's created idols of Gold, silver or of wood do not resemble God. God who is above all sits (present tense and not a reference to past time creation) above the earth as was shown in a number of verses. From the very beginning man has been told God who is from above alone created the heavens. Man is but a grasshopper in comparison to God. He cannot fully be likened to God

The key point you are trying to propagate that verse 22 refers to the Holy spirit alone is defective. The reference is not to a past time event but an ongoing reality.

 

[TomL]

I'm not refuting that the Father, son, and holy spirit, or all that is God, were involved in creation, but it is in all in how we understand it. You say three persons, Jesus in Jn 17:3 made it perfectly clear to me, we are to know only two persons for life eternal, period, stop. And that the father is the only true God, period, stop.

What the text does not state is that the father alone is the one true God

There is but one God consisting of Father, son and Holy Spirit

Ref John 17:3 It is the Holy Spirit who makes known the Father and the son

So, it comes down to understanding the Son, how is Jesus God's only begotten Son, equal to God, equal to Man. And there are (about) two ways. Ether, a person (or something) came down from heaven and put on created flesh as a coat, which most "Christians," or "Christian" religions teach, or God's spoken word came down from heaven and became the Man Jesus Christ, the word actually became flesh, everything equal to God.

The scriptures clearly present Christ as personal

Philippians 2:5–8 (LEB) — 5 Think this in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, existing in the form of God, did not consider being equal with God something to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave, by becoming in the likeness of people. And being found in appearance like a man, 8 he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, that is, death on a cross.

The preincarnate Christ while in the form of god could think and consider, could demonstrate humility and humble himself
and take on a lesser form

That cannot be true of a non personal thing

The other way Jesus is not a true son, and you are worshipping created fallen corrupted flesh.

Except the bible does not present him as an impersonal thing but as living being active in history

1 Corinthians 10:4 (KJV 1900) — 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

Jude 4–6 (LEB) — 4 For certain men have slipped in stealthily, who were designated long ago for this condemnation, ungodly ones, who change the grace of our God into licentiousness and who deny our only Master and Lord Jesus Christ. 5 Now I want to remind you, although you know everything once and for all, that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, the second time destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep to their own domain but deserted their proper dwelling place, he has kept in eternal bonds under deep gloom for the judgment of the great day,

In 1 Jn 1:1 Hands, is in the Nominative, the subject of the sentence, when they touched with their own hands the body of Jesus, what you are saying to me, is they were touching with their onw hands the attribute life. And, that Jesus' flesh from Mary's created fallen flesh, that the disciples touched, was the word of life. How do I make sense out of any of that! Your doctrine does not work with all verses, it makes the word of God void and unintelligible.

And only one of these doctrines work with all scripture, and it ain't Rev 13:1-2.

1 John 1:1 (LEB) — 1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and our hands have touched, concerning the word of life—

No Eternal life an attribute of Christ by means of metonymy represents whole being

That makes perfect sense. They heard, saw and handled a real life living being

The idea that they touched and saw an impersonal word however makes no sense at all

BTW hands is not the subject of the sentence but of the nominal phrase which functions as the subject or object at the clause level

 

[7xLightray]

You think God has ribs, flesh and bones ?

God is a Spirit not a physical being

John 4:24 (LEB) — 24 God is spirit, and the ones who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Luke 24:39 (LEB) — 39 Look at my hands and my feet, that I am I myself! Touch me and see, because a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see that I have.”

Isaiah 40:18–22 (LEB) — 18 And to whom will you liken God? And to what likeness will you compare him? 19 A craftsman pours out the idol, and a goldsmith overlays it with gold, and he smelts chains of silver. 20 The one who is too impoverished for a gift chooses wood that will not rot; he seeks a skillful artisan for himself to set up an image that will not be knocked over. 21 Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told to you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundation of the earth? 22 He is the one who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; the one who stretches out the heavens like a veil and spreads them out like a tent to live in,

Nothing is like God. Man's created idols of Gold, silver or of wood do not resemble God. God who is above all sits (present tense and not a reference to past time creation) above the earth as was shown in a number of verses. From the very beginning man has been told God who is from above alone created the heavens. Man is but a grasshopper in comparison to God. He cannot fully be likened to God

The key point you are trying to propagate that verse 22 refers to the Holy spirit alone is defective. The reference is not to a past time event but an ongoing reality.

I did not ask you to comment on my doctrine, but on these three verses Isa 40:18,21,22. Not able to follow instructions, comprehension noted.

I can tell by your questioning, and repeated questioning, after I've answered, shows me you do not have a clue what I am saying!
I can tell by your accusations, and repeated accusations, after I've answered, like this one "The idea that they touched and saw an impersonal word however makes no sense at all," you do not have a clue, at all, what I am saying, or refusing to! And that's why you twist everything.

If you can't hear me, why would I believe you can hear the Bible?! Comprehension noted. Why should I bother continuing answering you when you are not able to hear me?! Not one of your verses touch my doctrine, one reason is, because you don't have a clue what I am saying! So, we are distend to go around in circles, because you are not able to comprehend what I am saying, or refusing to. If you refuse to hear me, and constantly falsely accuse me, why should I waist my time, no good will come out of it!

There are some I'd love to answer, like this one, "No Eternal life an attribute of Christ by means of metonymy represents whole being" and a few other things "when they touched with their own hands the earthly corrupted created body of Jesus (the whole being), what you are saying to me, is they were touching with their own hands the attribute life, which was from Mary's earthly corrupted created flesh, His whole body." And the rest, but..

I made it clear when I would respond to your posts!

Where is Isa 40:21 sending you?
Now, imagine your boss saying this to you, and your bosses tone.
Isa 40:21 Do you not know? Do you not hear? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?

 

[7xLightray]

What the text does not state is that the father alone is the one true God

There is but one God consisting of Father, son and Holy Spirit

Ref John 17:3 It is the Holy Spirit who makes known the Father and the son







The scriptures clearly present Christ as personal

Philippians 2:5–8 (LEB) — 5 Think this in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, existing in the form of God, did not consider being equal with God something to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave, by becoming in the likeness of people. And being found in appearance like a man, 8 he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, that is, death on a cross.

The preincarnate Christ while in the form of god could think and consider, could demonstrate humility and humble himself
and take on a lesser form

That cannot be true of a non personal thing




Except the bible does not present him as an impersonal thing but as living being active in history

1 Corinthians 10:4 (KJV 1900) — 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

Jude 4–6 (LEB) — 4 For certain men have slipped in stealthily, who were designated long ago for this condemnation, ungodly ones, who change the grace of our God into licentiousness and who deny our only Master and Lord Jesus Christ. 5 Now I want to remind you, although you know everything once and for all, that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, the second time destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep to their own domain but deserted their proper dwelling place, he has kept in eternal bonds under deep gloom for the judgment of the great day,







1 John 1:1 (LEB) — 1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and our hands have touched, concerning the word of life—

No Eternal life an attribute of Christ by means of metonymy represents whole being

That makes perfect sense. They heard, saw and handled a real life living being

The idea that they touched and saw an impersonal word however makes no sense at all

BTW hands is not the subject of the sentence but of the nominal phrase which functions as the subject or object at the clause level

I did not ask you to comment on my doctrine, but on these three verses Isa 40:18,21,22. Not able to follow instructions, comprehension noted.

I can tell by your questioning, and repeated questioning, after I've answered, shows me you do not have a clue what I am saying!
I can tell by your accusations, and repeated accusations, after I've answered, like this one "The idea that they touched and saw an impersonal word however makes no sense at all," you do not have a clue, at all, what I am saying, or refusing to! And that's why you twist everything.

If you can't hear me, why would I believe you can hear the Bible?! Comprehension noted. Why should I bother continuing answering you when you are not able to hear me?! Not one of your verses touch my doctrine, one reason is, because you don't have a clue what I am saying! So, we are distend to go around in circles, because you are not able to comprehend what I am saying, or refusing to. If you refuse to hear me, and constantly falsely accuse me, why should I waist my time, no good will come out of it!

There are some I'd love to answer, like this one, "No Eternal life an attribute of Christ by means of metonymy represents whole being" and a few other things "when they touched with their own hands the earthly corrupted created body of Jesus (the whole being), what you are saying to me, is they were touching with their own hands the attribute life, which was from Mary's earthly corrupted created flesh, His whole body." And the rest, but..

I made it clear when I would respond to your posts!

Where is Isa 40:21 sending you?
Now, imagine your boss saying this to you, and your bosses tone.
Isa 40:21 Do you not know? Do you not hear? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?

 

[TomL]

What the text does not state is that the father alone is the one true God

There is but one God consisting of Father, son and Holy Spirit

Ref John 17:3 It is the Holy Spirit who makes known the Father and the son







The scriptures clearly present Christ as personal

Philippians 2:5–8 (LEB) — 5 Think this in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, existing in the form of God, did not consider being equal with God something to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave, by becoming in the likeness of people. And being found in appearance like a man, 8 he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, that is, death on a cross.

The preincarnate Christ while in the form of god could think and consider, could demonstrate humility and humble himself
and take on a lesser form

That cannot be true of a non personal thing




Except the bible does not present him as an impersonal thing but as living being active in history

1 Corinthians 10:4 (KJV 1900) — 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

Jude 4–6 (LEB) — 4 For certain men have slipped in stealthily, who were designated long ago for this condemnation, ungodly ones, who change the grace of our God into licentiousness and who deny our only Master and Lord Jesus Christ. 5 Now I want to remind you, although you know everything once and for all, that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, the second time destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep to their own domain but deserted their proper dwelling place, he has kept in eternal bonds under deep gloom for the judgment of the great day,







1 John 1:1 (LEB) — 1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and our hands have touched, concerning the word of life—

No Eternal life an attribute of Christ by means of metonymy represents whole being

That makes perfect sense. They heard, saw and handled a real life living being

The idea that they touched and saw an impersonal word however makes no sense at all

BTW hands is not the subject of the sentence but of the nominal phrase which functions as the subject or object at the clause level

I did not ask you to comment on my doctrine, but on these three verses Isa 40:18,21,22. Not able to follow instructions, comprehension noted.

That is the other post deal with what is posted here

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/isaiah-and-the-trinity.2118/post-132734

PS I have every right to question your doctrine and do not require your permission