Isaiah and the trinity

[TomL]

This does not explain Isa 40:18-22. I have never seen you explain from beginning to end the passage of Isa 40:18-22, in how you would understand it. The best I could understand from you, would be like me saying, I myself am the image of myself. And I don't agree with that. My son would be an image of me, a cloned son would be an exact image of me, but I am not my image. I am not the image and the original.

Really? How do you distinguish the Father from the Son, who also somehow descended down from heaven, and ascended. How do you distinguish the Son from the Holy Spirit, or the Holy Spirit from the Father? Somehow they are seperate, yet one and the same, God. Are they the same persons? No, not to a trinitarian! Distinction!

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not the image of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. If that is that what you are trying to say?

Does the spirit of God (God's breath) return to God, when we leave this world? Ecc 12:7 "and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it." How can the spirit return to God?

You simply stated Isa 40:18-22 is speaking of the spirit

There is no evidence of that as noted

The Spirit is not mentioned and all that is God - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is above the earth

And it is the image of God without specific reference to the father or the son or the Holy Spirit

If you make it but a single person image then you have two other persons which have the same image

 

[7xLightray]

You simply stated Isa 40:18-22 is speaking of the spirit

There is no evidence of that as noted

The Spirit is not mentioned and all that is God - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is above the earth

And it is the image of God without specific reference to the father or the son or the Holy Spirit

If you make it but a single person image then you have two other persons which have the same image

Ya, okay, indirectly.
The spirit is mentioned in Genesis. Correct? Or, are you disputing this? That is where Isa 40:18-22 is sending us to look, in Genesis "..the beginning.. ..the foundations of the earth" for the answer. Correct? Or, are you disputing this?

This is all I read, "And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters." I do not read in Genesis 1:2 the word "God" alone, nor "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit," all I read is "the Spirit of God."

I count the word "God" alone is mentioned 31 times, and "spirit of God" once, in Gen chapter 1, in the ESV and KJV.
And, that phrase "the spirit of God," is not mentioned again until, guess when.., not until Gen 41:38 "And Pharaoh said to his servants, “Can we find a man like this, in whom is the Spirit of God?”" Speaking of God's image "The Son of Man," God's Son, if you understand Joseph is a type of Christ.

 

[101G]

Yet Isaiah shows the trinity here

Isaiah 63:9–14 (KJV 1900) — 9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, And the angel of his presence saved them: In his love and in his pity he redeemed them; And he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. 10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: Therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. 11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? Where is he that put his holy Spirit within him? 12 That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, Dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name? 13 That led them through the deep, As an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble? 14 As a beast goeth down into the valley, The Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: So didst thou lead thy people, To make thyself a glorious name

no, Read Isaiah 63:5 first and ..... then Isaiah chapter 53. oh boy... unbelievable.

You have the Lord, his Spirit and the messenger of his presence- the pre-incarnate Christ who is also called God and Yahweh
Exodus 3:2–8 (LEB) — 2 And the angel of Yahweh appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush, and he looked, and there was the bush burning with fire, but the bush was not being consumed. 3 And Moses said, “Let me turn aside and see this great sight. Why does the bush not burn up?” 4 And Yahweh saw that he turned aside to see, and God called to him from the midst of the bush, and he said, “Moses, Moses.” And he said, “Here I am.” 5 And he said, “You must not come near to here. Take off your sandals from on your feet, because the place on which you are standing, it is holy ground.” 6 And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face because he was afraid of looking at God. 7 And Yahweh said, “Surely I have seen the misery of my people who are in Egypt, and I have heard their cry of distress because of their oppressors, for I know their sufferings. 8 And I have come down to deliver them from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up from this land to a good and wide land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites.

Lord have mercy please, open their eyes. only ONE WORD for the above statement....... "JESUS". one person, one God. it's just incredible.

101G.

 

[7xLightray]

You simply stated Isa 40:18-22 is speaking of the spirit

There is no evidence of that as noted

I am justified, the evidence is by following the instructions of Isa 40:18-22.
Notice, out of all the verses in Gen 1 (which have "God" 31 times), only this verse, verse 2, has this phrase "the spirit of God." And also, Isa 40:22 says His image ("and the word was with God") is this one that's "above the circle of the earth," or "over the face of the waters." And only this verse, verse 2, states "over the face of the waters," so there is nowhere else to look. And it only states "the spirit of God," not "God" alone. Then on top of that Isa 40:21 states, "21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?" This verse expects us to know and understand. And it says we have been told, His image has been explained, and can be understood from the beginning of Genesis. There is only one place it mentions His image in Gen 1, and that is verses 26-27. And there it says He made not anything else, but "male and female," in His image, and that's two (which Jn 1:1 states two in beginning as well), and one from another Gen 2:21-23, the rib being the "what" that became Eve, as God's spoken word became flesh, the son of God. Therefore Adam is Eve and Eve is Adam, yet, Adam is not Eve and Eve is not Adam. And in the same way, God is Christ and Christ is God, yet, God is not Christ, and Christ is not God. In every nuance it works out to this doctrine.

If ya follow the instructions, it only comes out one way!
Not only that, but it equals what Christ taught (and there is no way around Jn 17:3 either, which excludes knowing the spirit for life eternal, and Christ from being the only true God, but referring to the person of God), and every other verse in the Bible. So, why wreck a good thing!

The only reason you are blind to Gen 1 verses 26-27, is because you believe in a different God than what the Bible teaches. Jesus said this is the first commandment of all, the most important, and now you know why, because otherwise it blinds from the truth. And therefore, you are not able to believe the plain instructions given by the Bible. You see three, the Bible teaches father and son.

So, I am completely justified in my understanding of Isa 40:18-22, and Genesis 1:2, 26-27; 2:21-23. I don't see any other way one could understand it, when one follows the instructions! And it definitely does not come out Trinity.

 

[TomL]

no, Read Isaiah 63:5 first and ..... then Isaiah chapter 53. oh boy... unbelievable.

Lord have mercy please, open their eyes. only ONE WORD for the above statement....... "JESUS". one person, one God. it's just incredible.

101G.

Sorry that is not an answer

Um a collective noun can take a singular pronoun or reference

Yet Isaiah shows the trinity here

Isaiah 63:9–14 (KJV 1900) — 9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, And the angel of his presence saved them: In his love and in his pity he redeemed them; And he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. 10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: Therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. 11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? Where is he that put his holy Spirit within him? 12 That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, Dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name? 13 That led them through the deep, As an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble? 14 As a beast goeth down into the valley, The Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: So didst thou lead thy people, To make thyself a glorious name

You have the Lord, his Spirit and the messenger of his presence- the pre-incarnate Christ who is also called God and Yahweh
Exodus 3:2–8 (LEB) — 2 And the angel of Yahweh appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush, and he looked, and there was the bush burning with fire, but the bush was not being consumed. 3 And Moses said, “Let me turn aside and see this great sight. Why does the bush not burn up?” 4 And Yahweh saw that he turned aside to see, and God called to him from the midst of the bush, and he said, “Moses, Moses.” And he said, “Here I am.” 5 And he said, “You must not come near to here. Take off your sandals from on your feet, because the place on which you are standing, it is holy ground.” 6 And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face because he was afraid of looking at God. 7 And Yahweh said, “Surely I have seen the misery of my people who are in Egypt, and I have heard their cry of distress because of their oppressors, for I know their sufferings. 8 And I have come down to deliver them from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up from this land to a good and wide land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites.

and note

Isaiah 63:3 (LEB) — 3 “I have trodden the winepress alone, and there was no man from the peoples with me. And I trod them in my anger, and I trampled them in my wrath, and spattered their juice on my garments, and stained all my clothing,

 

[TomL]

Ya, okay, indirectly.
The spirit is mentioned in Genesis. Correct? Or, are you disputing this? That is where Isa 40:18-22 is sending us to look, in Genesis "..the beginning.. ..the foundations of the earth" for the answer. Correct? Or, are you disputing this?

This is all I read, "And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters." I do not read in Genesis 1:2 the word "God" alone, nor "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit," all I read is "the Spirit of God."

I count the word "God" alone is mentioned 31 times, and "spirit of God" once, in Gen chapter 1, in the ESV and KJV.
And, that phrase "the spirit of God," is not mentioned again until, guess when.., not until Gen 41:38 "And Pharaoh said to his servants, “Can we find a man like this, in whom is the Spirit of God?”" Speaking of God's image "The Son of Man," God's Son, if you understand Joseph is a type of Christ.

Yes the Spirit is mentioned in Genesis but not the spirit alone

In the Book of Genesis one can find Father, Son and Holy Spirit

The father as Yahweh, The Spirit of Yahweh, and the messenger of Yahweh's presence - the angel of the Lord who is called God and Yahweh

r

 

[TomL]

I am justified, the evidence is by following the instructions of Isa 40:18-22.
Notice, out of all the verses in Gen 1 (which have "God" 31 times), only this verse, verse 2, has this phrase "the spirit of God." And also, Isa 40:22 says His image ("and the word was with God") is this one that's "above the circle of the earth," or "over the face of the waters." And only this verse, verse 2, states "over the face of the waters," so there is nowhere else to look. And it only states "the spirit of God," not "God" alone. Then on top of that Isa 40:21 states, "21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?" This verse expects us to know and understand. And it says we have been told, His image has been explained, and can be understood from the beginning of Genesis. There is only one place it mentions His image in Gen 1, and that is verses 26-27. And there it says He made not anything else, but "male and female," in His image, and that's two (which Jn 1:1 states two in beginning as well), and one from another Gen 2:21-23, the rib being the "what" that became Eve, as God's spoken word became flesh, the son of God. Therefore Adam is Eve and Eve is Adam, yet, Adam is not Eve and Eve is not Adam. And in the same way, God is Christ and Christ is God, yet, God is not Christ, and Christ is not God. In every nuance it works out to this doctrine.

If ya follow the instructions, it only comes out one way!
Not only that, but it equals what Christ taught (and there is no way around Jn 17:3 either, which excludes knowing the spirit for life eternal, and Christ from being the only true God, but referring to the person of God), and every other verse in the Bible. So, why wreck a good thing!

The only reason you are blind to Gen 1 verses 26-27, is because you believe in a different God than what the Bible teaches. Jesus said this is the first commandment of all, the most important, and now you know why, because otherwise it blinds from the truth. And therefore, you are not able to believe the plain instructions given by the Bible. You see three, the Bible teaches father and son.

So, I am completely justified in my understanding of Isa 40:18-22, and Genesis 1:2, 26-27; 2:21-23. I don't see any other way one could understand it, when one follows the instructions! And it definitely does not come out Trinity.

Already showed you God with no distinction in persons is above the circle of the earth

You have no justification for assuming Isaiah 40:18-22 is speaking of the Spirit alone

and all created

1 Corinthians 8:6 (NLT) — 6 But for us, There is one God, the Father, by whom all things were created, and for whom we live. And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created, and through whom we live.

 

[7xLightray]

Yes the Spirit is mentioned in Genesis but not the spirit alone

In the Book of Genesis one can find Father, Son and Holy Spirit

The father as Yahweh, The Spirit of Yahweh, and the messenger of Yahweh's presence - the angel of the Lord who is called God and Yahweh

r

Here is God alone, Gen 1:1 "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."
Here is the spirit alone, Gen 1:2 "The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters." ..but you are refusing to see.
Why say, right here (in this connecting verse to Isa 40:18-22 which calls the spirit of God His image),"the spirit of God is hovering over", and not continue with saying, "God was hovering over"?
And Jn 1 also says there were two in the beginning, God's image the word (and a word is breath/spirit), and "God" (the word "God" alone, but with another (distinction of something!)), and God was the word (image, God's image). Just like we have "the spirit of God (alone)" and "God (alone)," we also have in Jn 1:1 "the word (alone) " and "God (alone)". God sent His power, His word, which is God's breath/spirit to create. God said, and the word (breath/spirit, the same breath power in us that gives us life) created. Trinity does not have a leg to stand on, Christ did not teach a Trinity, Revelation 13 does!

So?

So?
Is this the way you count the persons of God?
Speaking of Christ being called "Yahweh" in..
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely. And this is the name by which he will be called: ‘The LORD is our righteousness.’
We also have Jerusalem being called "Yahweh" in..
Jer 33:16 In those days Judah will be saved, and Jerusalem will dwell securely. And this is the name by which it will be called: ‘The LORD is our righteousness.’
We have Christ called Yahweh, and we have Jerusalem called Yahweh. Is Jerusalem the fourth person God? Genesis 1:27 and 2:21-23 shows us how to count.

 

[7xLightray]

Already showed you God with no distinction in persons is above the circle of the earth

You have no justification for assuming Isaiah 40:18-22 is speaking of the Spirit alone

and all created

1 Corinthians 8:6 (NLT) — 6 But for us, There is one God, the Father, by whom all things were created, and for whom we live. And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created, and through whom we live.

And I showed you that there is distinction!
This is one verse that shows distinction, "..the word was with God, and God was the word [and this shows sameness].
I just showed you in my last post why I have justification. You simply saying I don't, does not show me anything, nor convinces me. Show me a verse that contradicts in my doctrine, this is the only doctrine that fits every verse, Trinity does not fit every verse. This is how one tells Oneness is not true, it contradicts some verses, and so does the Trinity.

You did not show they were above the earth.
Gen 1:26-27 does not show, "God with no distinction in persons is above the circle of the earth."

I only count two that created in 1 Corinthians 8:6 Father and Jesus Christ.

So let me now reply to one of your old posts, Show me where it says, "God's image refers to nature or essence."

 

[TomL]

And I showed you that there is distinction!
This is one verse that shows distinction, "..the word was with God, and God was the word [and this shows sameness].
I just showed you in my last post why I have justification. You simply saying I don't, does not show me anything, nor convinces me. Show me a verse that contradicts in my doctrine, this is the only doctrine that fits every verse, Trinity does not fit every verse. This is how one tells Oneness is not true, it contradicts some verses, and so does the Trinity.

You did not show they were above the earth.
Gen 1:26-27 does not show, "God with no distinction in persons is above the circle of the earth."

I only count two that created in 1 Corinthians 8:6 Father and Jesus Christ.

So let me now reply to one of your old posts, Show me where it says, "God's image refers to nature or essence."

Um that has no bearing on Isaiah 40:18-22 and your claims the image is that of the Spirit alone

and the verses I quoted which you ignored showed God is above the earth

While you count two in 1 Corinthians 8:6

there is also

Psalm 104:24–30 (KJV 1900) — 24 O LORD, how manifold are thy works! In wisdom hast thou made them all: The earth is full of thy riches. 25 So is this great and wide sea, Wherein are things creeping innumerable, Both small and great beasts. 26 There go the ships: There is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein. 27 These wait all upon thee; That thou mayest give them their meat in due season. 28 That thou givest them they gather: Thou openest thine hand, they are filled with good. 29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: Thou takest away their breath, they die, And return to their dust. 30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: And thou renewest the face of the earth.

that makes three

and to answer your question

Philippians 2:5–6 (NIV84) — 5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

 

[TomL]

Here is God alone, Gen 1:1 "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."

The Father ?

The Son?

The holy Spirit?

Which and how do you know

All three are God

Here is the spirit alone, Gen 1:2 "The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters." ..but you are refusing to see.
Why say, right here (in this connecting verse to Isa 40:18-22 which calls the spirit of God His image),"the spirit of God is hovering over", and not continue with saying, "God was hovering over"?

Isaiah 40 does not speak of hovering over the water

Isaiah 40:18–22 (LEB) — 18 And to whom will you liken God? And to what likeness will you compare him? 19 A craftsman pours out the idol, and a goldsmith overlays it with gold, and he smelts chains of silver. 20 The one who is too impoverished for a gift chooses wood that will not rot; he seeks a skillful artisan for himself to set up an image that will not be knocked over. 21 Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told to you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundation of the earth? 22 He is the one who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; the one who stretches out the heavens like a veil and spreads them out like a tent to live in,

And Jn 1 also says there were two in the beginning, God's image the word (and a word is breath/spirit), and "God" (the word "God" alone, but with another (distinction of something!)), and God was the word (image, God's image). Just like we have "the spirit of God (alone)" and "God (alone)," we also have in Jn 1:1 "the word (alone) " and "God (alone)". God sent His power, His word, which is God's breath/spirit to create. God said, and the word (breath/spirit, the same breath power in us that gives us life) created. Trinity does not have a leg to stand on, Christ did not teach a Trinity, Revelation 13 does!

No the word is not the breath of God but a person who appeared in the Old testament as the messenger (angel) of the Lord who is called God, The god of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as well as yahweh

that the word was personal is proven here

Philippians 2:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

So?

So?
Is this the way you count the persons of God?
Speaking of Christ being called "Yahweh" in..
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely. And this is the name by which he will be called: ‘The LORD is our righteousness.’
We also have Jerusalem being called "Yahweh" in..
Jer 33:16 In those days Judah will be saved, and Jerusalem will dwell securely. And this is the name by which it will be called: ‘The LORD is our righteousness.’
We have Christ called Yahweh, and we have Jerusalem called Yahweh. Is Jerusalem the fourth person God? Genesis 1:27 and 2:21-23 shows us how to count.

Sorry, Israel is not called Yahweh

 

[TomL]

So?
Is this the way you count the persons of God?
Speaking of Christ being called "Yahweh" in..
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely. And this is the name by which he will be called: ‘The LORD is our righteousness.’
We also have Jerusalem being called "Yahweh" in..
Jer 33:16 In those days Judah will be saved, and Jerusalem will dwell securely. And this is the name by which it will be called: ‘The LORD is our righteousness.’
We have Christ called Yahweh, and we have Jerusalem called Yahweh. Is Jerusalem the fourth person God? Genesis 1:27 and 2:21-23 shows us how to count.

PS saying the Lord is our righteousness is not the same as calling Israel Yahweh

Jeremiah 33:16 (UASV) — 16 In those days Judah will be saved, and Jerusalem will dwell in safety; and this is the name by which she will be called: ‘Jehovah is our righteousness.’


and it bears no comparison to

Exodus 3:2–8 (LEB) — 2 And the angel of Yahweh appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush, and he looked, and there was the bush burning with fire, but the bush was not being consumed. 3 And Moses said, “Let me turn aside and see this great sight. Why does the bush not burn up?” 4 And Yahweh saw that he turned aside to see, and God called to him from the midst of the bush, and he said, “Moses, Moses.” And he said, “Here I am.” 5 And he said, “You must not come near to here. Take off your sandals from on your feet, because the place on which you are standing, it is holy ground.” 6 And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face because he was afraid of looking at God. 7 And Yahweh said, “Surely I have seen the misery of my people who are in Egypt, and I have heard their cry of distress because of their oppressors, for I know their sufferings. 8 And I have come down to deliver them from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up from this land to a good and wide land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites.

Isaiah 63:9–10 (UASV) — 9 In all their distress it was distressing to him, and the angel of his presence saved them; in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; he lifted them up and carried them all the days of old. 10 But they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit; therefore he turned to be their enemy, and himself fought against them.

Where the messenger of YHWH is called God, the God of Abraham. Isaac and Jacob, Yahweh

 

[7xLightray]

Um that has no bearing on Isaiah 40:18-22 and your claims the image is that of the Spirit alone

and the verses I quoted which you ignored showed God is above the earth

While you count two in 1 Corinthians 8:6

there is also

Psalm 104:24–30 (KJV 1900) — 24 O LORD, how manifold are thy works! In wisdom hast thou made them all: The earth is full of thy riches. 25 So is this great and wide sea, Wherein are things creeping innumerable, Both small and great beasts. 26 There go the ships: There is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein. 27 These wait all upon thee; That thou mayest give them their meat in due season. 28 That thou givest them they gather: Thou openest thine hand, they are filled with good. 29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: Thou takest away their breath, they die, And return to their dust. 30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: And thou renewest the face of the earth.

that makes three

and to answer your question

Philippians 2:5–6 (NIV84) — 5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

That's right, cause it had to do with your "distinction!"

I did a search, could not find it. And asking for you to point it out.

It does not make three if the spirit and the word are one and the same as I have shown. It says thy spirit like Gen 1:2 the spirit of God that created with God. It also says, "Thou sendest forth thy spirit." That means God sent something else, or someone else to create. And we see that played out in Gen 1:2 where God (Gen 1:1) sent forth "the spirit of God" (Gen 1:2) over the face of the waters to create.

Are you saying Jesus the person (in Mary's flesh), is the nature, and essence of God?
I believe Jesus is the image of God, existed in the form of God, but not as a person. So, this passage does not make the point you think it does. My person is not the image of me, it is me! My flesh is not the image of me, it is me! Your three persons are not the image of God, they are God. The nature, or essence of God is not the image of God, it is God.

 

[7xLightray]

The Father ?

The Son?

The holy Spirit?

Which and how do you know

All three are God





Isaiah 40 does not speak of hovering over the water

Isaiah 40:18–22 (LEB) — 18 And to whom will you liken God? And to what likeness will you compare him? 19 A craftsman pours out the idol, and a goldsmith overlays it with gold, and he smelts chains of silver. 20 The one who is too impoverished for a gift chooses wood that will not rot; he seeks a skillful artisan for himself to set up an image that will not be knocked over. 21 Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told to you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundation of the earth? 22 He is the one who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; the one who stretches out the heavens like a veil and spreads them out like a tent to live in,



No the word is not the breath of God but a person who appeared in the Old testament as the messenger (angel) of the Lord who is called God, The god of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as well as yahweh

that the word was personal is proven here

Philippians 2:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.




Sorry, Israel is not called Yahweh

If you are asking these questions, then you missed my point. I was pointing out why switch from the word God to the spirit of God, and especially, at this verse, where Isa 40:21 is pointing to.
Context: "Here is God alone, Gen 1:1 "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." Here is the spirit alone, Gen 1:2 "The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters." ..Why say, right here (in this connecting verse to Isa 40:18-22..),"the spirit of God is hovering over", and not continue with saying, "God was hovering over"?"

That's right, it says, "It is he who sits above the circle of the earth" similar language, above the earth. But where else would you go in Gen 1-2 creation, to find someone above the circle of the earth?

The word that comes out of your mouth is not a person. It is breath, and breath is the same word as spirit. And Psa 33:6 "By the word [the word Logos in k.Greek] of the LORD the heavens were made, and by the breath of his mouth all their host."

Ya, on earth, but not before, though the word was living. Impersonal: 1 John 1 That which [not He who] was from the beginning, ..of the Word of life. Gen 2:7 "..breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.."

No need to be sorry, cause those are not my words. These were "Is this the way you count the persons of God?...Speaking of Christ being called "Yahweh" in Jer 23:6...We also have Jerusalem being called "Yahweh" in Jer 33:16 In those days Judah will be saved, and Jerusalem will dwell securely. And this is the name by which it will be called: ‘The LORD is our righteousness.’ ..We have Christ called Yahweh, and we have Jerusalem called Yahweh. Is Jerusalem a fourth God? Genesis 1:27 and 2:21-23 shows us how to count."

Asking: Can you interpret Isa 40:18-22 so I can understand how you understand it? In a post all by itself. You can even put big letters at the top, "My interpretation of Isa 40:18-22."

 

[7xLightray]

PS saying the Lord is our righteousness is not the same as calling Israel Yahweh

Jeremiah 33:16 (UASV) — 16 In those days Judah will be saved, and Jerusalem will dwell in safety; and this is the name by which she will be called: ‘Jehovah is our righteousness.’


and it bears no comparison to

Exodus 3:2–8 (LEB) — 2 And the angel of Yahweh appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush, and he looked, and there was the bush burning with fire, but the bush was not being consumed. 3 And Moses said, “Let me turn aside and see this great sight. Why does the bush not burn up?” 4 And Yahweh saw that he turned aside to see, and God called to him from the midst of the bush, and he said, “Moses, Moses.” And he said, “Here I am.” 5 And he said, “You must not come near to here. Take off your sandals from on your feet, because the place on which you are standing, it is holy ground.” 6 And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face because he was afraid of looking at God. 7 And Yahweh said, “Surely I have seen the misery of my people who are in Egypt, and I have heard their cry of distress because of their oppressors, for I know their sufferings. 8 And I have come down to deliver them from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up from this land to a good and wide land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites.

Isaiah 63:9–10 (UASV) — 9 In all their distress it was distressing to him, and the angel of his presence saved them; in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; he lifted them up and carried them all the days of old. 10 But they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit; therefore he turned to be their enemy, and himself fought against them.

Where the messenger of YHWH is called God, the God of Abraham. Isaac and Jacob, Yahweh

I agree with that, but then again I did not even suggest that.
It's more like: "Saying the Lord is our Yahweh is not the same as calling Jerusalem our Yahweh." And that was my point, just because someone, or something is called Yahweh, does not mean they are, or it is actually Yahweh, and obviously not the best way to count the persons of Yahweh.

It bears no comparison, because you had missed my point.

 

[TomL]

I agree with that, but then again I did not even suggest that.
It's more like: "Saying the Lord is our Yahweh is not the same as calling Jerusalem our Yahweh." And that was my point, just because someone, or something is called Yahweh, does not mean they are, or it is actually Yahweh, and obviously not the best way to count the persons of Yahweh.

It bears no comparison, because you had missed my point.

It seems rather plain to me . There is no way to deny

Exodus 3:2–8 (LEB) — 2 And the angel of Yahweh appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush, and he looked, and there was the bush burning with fire, but the bush was not being consumed. 3 And Moses said, “Let me turn aside and see this great sight. Why does the bush not burn up?” 4 And Yahweh saw that he turned aside to see, and God called to him from the midst of the bush, and he said, “Moses, Moses.” And he said, “Here I am.” 5 And he said, “You must not come near to here. Take off your sandals from on your feet, because the place on which you are standing, it is holy ground.” 6 And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face because he was afraid of looking at God. 7 And Yahweh said, “Surely I have seen the misery of my people who are in Egypt, and I have heard their cry of distress because of their oppressors, for I know their sufferings. 8 And I have come down to deliver them from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up from this land to a good and wide land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites.

Isaiah 63:9–10 (UASV) — 9 In all their distress it was distressing to him, and the angel of his presence saved them; in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; he lifted them up and carried them all the days of old. 10 But they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit; therefore he turned to be their enemy, and himself fought against them.

Where the messenger of YHWH is called God, the God of Abraham. Isaac and Jacob, Yahweh

The passage clearly supports the belief there are multiple persons who are the one God of the bible

 

[TomL]

If you are asking these questions, then you missed my point. I was pointing out why switch from the word God to the spirit of God, and especially, at this verse, where Isa 40:21 is pointing to.
Context: "Here is God alone, Gen 1:1 "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." Here is the spirit alone, Gen 1:2 "The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters." ..Why say, right here (in this connecting verse to Isa 40:18-22..),"the spirit of God is hovering over", and not continue with saying, "God was hovering over"?"

That's right, it says, "It is he who sits above the circle of the earth" similar language, above the earth. But where else would you go in Gen 1-2 creation, to find someone above the circle of the earth?

The word that comes out of your mouth is not a person. It is breath, and breath is the same word as spirit. And Psa 33:6 "By the word [the word Logos in k.Greek] of the LORD the heavens were made, and by the breath of his mouth all their host."

Ya, on earth, but not before, though the word was living. Impersonal: 1 John 1 That which [not He who] was from the beginning, ..of the Word of life. Gen 2:7 "..breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.."

No need to be sorry, cause those are not my words. These were "Is this the way you count the persons of God?...Speaking of Christ being called "Yahweh" in Jer 23:6...We also have Jerusalem being called "Yahweh" in Jer 33:16 In those days Judah will be saved, and Jerusalem will dwell securely. And this is the name by which it will be called: ‘The LORD is our righteousness.’ ..We have Christ called Yahweh, and we have Jerusalem called Yahweh. Is Jerusalem a fourth God? Genesis 1:27 and 2:21-23 shows us how to count."

Asking: Can you interpret Isa 40:18-22 so I can understand how you understand it? In a post all by itself. You can even put big letters at the top, "My interpretation of Isa 40:18-22."

If you read and go by what the scriptures state instead of your assumptions, you will find the logos is personal

He created. He was with God and he created

John 1:1–3 (LEB) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being.

John 1:14–15 (LEB) — 14 And the Word became flesh and took up residence among us, and we saw his glory, glory as of the one and only from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John testified about him and cried out, saying, “This one was he about whom I said, ‘The one who comes after me is ahead of me, because he existed before me.’ ”

Colossians 1:16–17 (LEB) — 16 because all things in the heavens and on the earth were created by him, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things were created through him and for him, 17 and he himself is before all things, and in him all things are held together,

Hebrews 1:1–12 (LEB) — 1 Although God spoke long ago in many parts and in many ways to the fathers by the prophets, 2 in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the world, 3 who is the radiance of his glory and the representation of his essence, sustaining all things by the word of power. When he had made purification for sins through him, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become by so much better than the angels, by as much as he has inherited a more excellent name than theirs. 5 For to which of the angels did he ever say, “You are my son, today I have begotten you,” and again, “I will be his father, and he will be my son”? 6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “And let all the angels of God worship him.” 7 And concerning the angels he says, “The one who makes his angels winds, and his servants a flame of fire,” 8 but concerning the Son, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of righteous is the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; because of this God, your God, has anointed you with the olive oil of joy more than your companions. 10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the works of your hands; 11 they will perish, but you continue, and they will all become old like a garment, 12 and like a robe you will roll them up, and like a garment they will be changed; but you are the same, and your years will not run out.”

Philippians 2:5–7 (LEB) — 5 Think this in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, existing in the form of God, did not consider being equal with God something to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave, by becoming in the likeness of people. And being found in appearance like a man,

Lets start there

 

[TomL]

That's right, cause it had to do with your "distinction!"

I did a search, could not find it. And asking for you to point it out.

Could not find what?

It does not make three if the spirit and the word are one and the same as I have shown. It says thy spirit like Gen 1:2 the spirit of God that created with God. It also says, "Thou sendest forth thy spirit." That means God sent something else, or someone else to create. And we see that played out in Gen 1:2 where God (Gen 1:1) sent forth "the spirit of God" (Gen 1:2) over the face of the waters to create.

The spirit and the word are not the same

John 15:26–27 (KJV 1900) — 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:7–11 (KJV 1900) — 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

and are clearly distinct persons

Are you saying Jesus the person (in Mary's flesh), is the nature, and essence of God?
I believe Jesus is the image of God, existed in the form of God, but not as a person. So, this passage does not make the point you think it does. My person is not the image of me, it is me! My flesh is not the image of me, it is me! Your three persons are not the image of God, they are God. The nature, or essence of God is not the image of God, it is God.

What do you think a person is?

Is God a person?

If Jesus existed in the image and form of God how is he not a person?

 

[101G]

Sorry that is not an answer

Personal opinion? don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures. Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

his OWN ARM? yes, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?"
Isaiah 53:2 "For he (GOD'S OWN ARM) shall grow up before him (GOD) as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he (GOD'S OWN ARM) hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, (GOD'S OWN ARM) there is no beauty that we should desire him (GOD'S OWN ARM)." Isaiah 53:3 "He (GOD'S OWN ARM) is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him (GOD'S OWN ARM); he (GOD'S OWN ARM) was despised, and we esteemed him (GOD'S OWN ARM) not."

again, address the scriptures, mand not 101G.

 

[TomL]

Personal opinion? don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures. Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

his OWN ARM? yes, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?"
Isaiah 53:2 "For he (GOD'S OWN ARM) shall grow up before him (GOD) as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he (GOD'S OWN ARM) hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, (GOD'S OWN ARM) there is no beauty that we should desire him (GOD'S OWN ARM)." Isaiah 53:3 "He (GOD'S OWN ARM) is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him (GOD'S OWN ARM); he (GOD'S OWN ARM) was despised, and we esteemed him (GOD'S OWN ARM) not."

again, address the scriptures, mand not 101G.

Arm just refers to a source of power

It could be the Father God's or it could be another's

It could be the Father or it could be Christ who is the arm

You are begging the question assuming the arm is the same in all cases