Isaiah and the trinity

[TomL]

Are you saying this: "Lord" = Father; "Spirit" = Holy Spirit; "messenger of his presence" = Jesus Christ? So in Isa 63, "The Spirit of the LORD" = the Father; "his holy Spirit" = Holy Spirit; "the angel of his presence" = Jesus (who is the Spirit)? This would say to me, the spirit of the Father and His holy Spirit are not the same Spirit, if the Father, who is Spirit, is not the holy Spirit, and the holy Spirit is not the Father who is Spirit? Never mind that Jesus is also the Spirit.

"Christ is the Word, but he is not the Holy Spirit" How so? If Jesus is the Spirit (ESV- 2 Cor 3:17 "Now the Lord is the Spirit.."; 3:18 "..the Lord who is the Spirit"), but is not the holy Spirit's Spirit (Acts 2:4 "..filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance"), then are you saying there are more than one Spirit?

Here is more confusion, Act 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit [which Spirit? The Father's Spirit, the Son's Spirit, or the holy Spirit's Spirit?] gave them utterance." Either the holy Spirit is the Spirit, or we do not know who the the word "Spirit" is referring to. Then on top of that we have Act 2:17-18 "..God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit [the Father is Spirit] on all flesh..in those days I will pour out my Spirit [the Father is Spirit], and they shall prophesy." Is this the Father's Spirit, or is it the holy Spirit's spirit? You seem to be saying to me, the Father who is Spirit is not pouring out His Spirit, but pouring out the Spirit of another (the holy Spirit), who the Father is not, and therefore the holy Spirit is not the Father's to pour out, but belongs to the holy Spirit who is God all on His own, and it would be up to the holy Spirit to pour out His own Spirit? Confusing, who is who, what is what! Again, How can the holy Spirit be "his holy Spirit" (the Father's holy Spirit Isa 63:10) if the holy Spirit is God all on His own and is not the Father, and the Father has his own Spirit? How can God (the Father) be head of God (the holy Spirit) who has never changed, or become man? It says the Father is pouring out His Spirit (pour out my Spirit), but are you saying He is not pouring out His Spirit, but the holy Spirit's Spirit? How many Spirits are there? And why aren't they one Spirit? And if they all are the same Spirit, then what, how are they separate in context of scripture? Sounding a lot like explaining the 3-in-1 God.

Back to Isa 40:18-22. This is what I was looking to understand, is how you apply Isa 40:18-22 to your doctrine.
How does three persons solve Isa 40:18-22; how does the Father and Son fit into what Isa 40:18-22 is asking?
And If you say the Father, Son, and holy Spirit are the Spirit of God in Gen 1:2, than "who" and "what" is God's image?
It says it is also explained in Genesis (Isa 40:21). And He made two in His image, but how did He make them, and how does a "what," and a "who" fit into that? Do you know?
Which of the three are the "what," and/or the "who," and on top of that, when the answer is only referring to the Spirit of God (verse 22; being the image of another who is not part of the answer)? There is only one "who" that is the answer, and only one "what" that is the answer, not three. Why is the Holy Spirit referred to as a image (liken, likeness, compare) of God, and a "who," and a "what"?

Your answer causes more questions, than answer (actually, I still don't know what your answer is).

In the passage

Isaiah 63:7–14 (LSB) — 7 I shall bring to remembrance the lovingkindnesses of Yahweh, the praises of Yahweh, According to all the ways that Yahweh has dealt bountifully with us, And the abundant goodness toward the house of Israel, Which He has dealt bountifully to them according to His compassion And according to the abundance of His lovingkindnesses. 8 And He said, “Surely, they are My people, Sons who will not deal falsely.” So He became their Savior. 9 In all their distress He was distressed, And the angel of His presence saved them; In His love and in His mercy He redeemed them, And He lifted them and carried them all the ancient days. 10 But they rebelled And grieved His Holy Spirit; Therefore He turned Himself to become their enemy; He fought against them. 11 Then His people remembered the ancient days, of Moses. Where is He who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of His flock? Where is He who put His Holy Spirit in the midst of them, 12 Who caused His glorious arm to go at the right hand of Moses, Who split the waters before them to make for Himself an everlasting name, 13 Who led them through the depths? Like the horse in the wilderness, they did not stumble; 14 As the cattle which go down into the valley, The Spirit of Yahweh gave them rest. So You led Your people, To make for Yourself a glorious name.

You have Yahweh, the angel of his present = Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit

The trinity

See evidence on board that the angel of Yahweh is the pre-incarnate Christ who is God and also called Yahweh

one example

Exodus 3:2–7 (LSB) — 2 And the angel of Yahweh appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of the bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was not consumed. 3 So Moses said, “I must turn aside now and see this marvelous sight. Why is the bush not burned up?” 4 And Yahweh saw that he turned aside to look, so God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.” 5 Then He said, “Do not come near here. Remove your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground.” 6 He said also, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” Then Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God. 7 And Yahweh said, “I have surely seen the affliction of My people who are in Egypt, and I have heard their cry because of their taskmasters, for I know their sufferings.

Note Angel denotes a messenger

 

[7xLightray]

In the passage

Isaiah 63:7–14 (LSB) — 7 I shall bring to remembrance the lovingkindnesses of Yahweh, the praises of Yahweh, According to all the ways that Yahweh has dealt bountifully with us, And the abundant goodness toward the house of Israel, Which He has dealt bountifully to them according to His compassion And according to the abundance of His lovingkindnesses. 8 And He said, “Surely, they are My people, Sons who will not deal falsely.” So He became their Savior. 9 In all their distress He was distressed, And the angel of His presence saved them; In His love and in His mercy He redeemed them, And He lifted them and carried them all the ancient days. 10 But they rebelled And grieved His Holy Spirit; Therefore He turned Himself to become their enemy; He fought against them. 11 Then His people remembered the ancient days, of Moses. Where is He who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of His flock? Where is He who put His Holy Spirit in the midst of them, 12 Who caused His glorious arm to go at the right hand of Moses, Who split the waters before them to make for Himself an everlasting name, 13 Who led them through the depths? Like the horse in the wilderness, they did not stumble; 14 As the cattle which go down into the valley, The Spirit of Yahweh gave them rest. So You led Your people, To make for Yourself a glorious name.

You have Yahweh, the angel of his present = Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit

The trinity

See evidence on board that the angel of Yahweh is the pre-incarnate Christ who is God and also called Yahweh

one example

Exodus 3:2–7 (LSB) — 2 And the angel of Yahweh appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of the bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was not consumed. 3 So Moses said, “I must turn aside now and see this marvelous sight. Why is the bush not burned up?” 4 And Yahweh saw that he turned aside to look, so God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.” 5 Then He said, “Do not come near here. Remove your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground.” 6 He said also, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” Then Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God. 7 And Yahweh said, “I have surely seen the affliction of My people who are in Egypt, and I have heard their cry because of their taskmasters, for I know their sufferings.

Note Angel denotes a messenger

Your passages can be interpreted in light of other christian religions, they are not clear passages. One could apply whoever they wanted to a title, or even a name, and obviously they do. But, besides that, these passages, or three persons, do not explaining Isa 40:18-22.

My point was/is, for a doctrine to be true it needs to work with all scripture. If verses are found that contradicts ones doctrine, then a new understanding must be sought (as it is with every such thing in life). There are clear Bible doctrine verses, and there are other verses that are not so clear. False teachers love to hang onto the not so clear verses, or passages, and ignore the clear.

This is what I was looking to understand, is how you apply Isa 40:18-22 to your doctrine?
How does three persons solve Isa 40:18-22; how does the Father and Son fit into what Isa 40:18-22 is asking, when it only refers to the spirit?
It says it is explained in Genesis (Isa 40:21): so, "who" and "what" do you say is God's image, taken from Genesis?
Why is the Spirit referred to as a image (liken, likeness, compare) of God, and a "who," and a "what"?

 

[TomL]

Your passages can be interpreted in light of other christian religions, they are not clear passages. One could apply whoever they wanted to a title, or even a name, and obviously they do. But, besides that, these passages, or three persons, do not explaining Isa 40:18-22.

My point was/is, for a doctrine to be true it needs to work with all scripture. If verses are found that contradicts ones doctrine, then a new understanding must be sought (as it is with every such thing in life). There are clear Bible doctrine verses, and there are other verses that are not so clear. False teachers love to hang onto the not so clear verses, or passages, and ignore the clear.

This is what I was looking to understand, is how you apply Isa 40:18-22 to your doctrine?
How does three persons solve Isa 40:18-22; how does the Father and Son fit into what Isa 40:18-22 is asking, when it only refers to the spirit?
It says it is explained in Genesis (Isa 40:21): so, "who" and "what" do you say is God's image, taken from Genesis?
Why is the Spirit referred to as a image (liken, likeness, compare) of God, and a "who," and a "what"?

Actually they cannot

Yahweh is the God of Israel

The Angel (messenger) of his presence is Christ

1 Corinthians 10:4–9 (LEB) — 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ. 5 But God was not pleased with the majority of them, for they were struck down in the desert. 6 Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we should not be desirers of evil things, just as those also desired them, 7 and not become idolaters, as some of them did, just as it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and stood up to play,” 8 nor commit sexual immorality, as some of them committed sexual immorality, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day, 9 nor put Christ to the test, as some of them tested him, and were destroyed by snakes,

Jude 5 (LEB) — 5 Now I want to remind you, although you know everything once and for all, that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, the second time destroyed those who did not believe.

your passage
Isaiah 40:18–22 (LEB) — 18 And to whom will you liken God? And to what likeness will you compare him? 19 A craftsman pours out the idol, and a goldsmith overlays it with gold, and he smelts chains of silver. 20 The one who is too impoverished for a gift chooses wood that will not rot; he seeks a skillful artisan for himself to set up an image that will not be knocked over. 21 Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told to you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundation of the earth? 22 He is the one who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; the one who stretches out the heavens like a veil and spreads them out like a tent to live in,


Is answered here

Hebrews 1:1–3 (LEB) — 1 Although God spoke long ago in many parts and in many ways to the fathers by the prophets, 2 in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the world, 3 who is the radiance of his glory and the representation of his essence, sustaining all things by the word of power. When he had made purification for sins through him, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Colossians 1:15–16 (LEB) — 15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation, 16 because all things in the heavens and on the earth were created by him, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things were created through him and for him,

 

[7xLightray]

Actually they cannot

Yahweh is the God of Israel

The Angel (messenger) of his presence is Christ

1 Corinthians 10:4–9 (LEB) — 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ. 5 But God was not pleased with the majority of them, for they were struck down in the desert. 6 Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we should not be desirers of evil things, just as those also desired them, 7 and not become idolaters, as some of them did, just as it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and stood up to play,” 8 nor commit sexual immorality, as some of them committed sexual immorality, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day, 9 nor put Christ to the test, as some of them tested him, and were destroyed by snakes,

Jude 5 (LEB) — 5 Now I want to remind you, although you know everything once and for all, that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, the second time destroyed those who did not believe.

your passage
Isaiah 40:18–22 (LEB) — 18 And to whom will you liken God? And to what likeness will you compare him? 19 A craftsman pours out the idol, and a goldsmith overlays it with gold, and he smelts chains of silver. 20 The one who is too impoverished for a gift chooses wood that will not rot; he seeks a skillful artisan for himself to set up an image that will not be knocked over. 21 Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told to you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundation of the earth? 22 He is the one who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; the one who stretches out the heavens like a veil and spreads them out like a tent to live in,


Is answered here

Hebrews 1:1–3 (LEB) — 1 Although God spoke long ago in many parts and in many ways to the fathers by the prophets, 2 in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the world, 3 who is the radiance of his glory and the representation of his essence, sustaining all things by the word of power. When he had made purification for sins through him, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Colossians 1:15–16 (LEB) — 15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation, 16 because all things in the heavens and on the earth were created by him, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things were created through him and for him,

Whoa, you did not hear what I wrote? There are other Christian Gods and Christs that are believed out there, correct. Therefore, they do understand those titles and names referring to "persons," or "what's" differently, and in different ways. You say they cant, and I am pointing out you cant either (obvious by avoidance of Genesis 1).

I agree God created everything through the spirit of God's Son His word.
It's beginning to sound like you are agreeing with me by your one person answer of Christ being the spirit in Genesis, but I am sure you are not.

Yet, just to be sure, not from other passages, but from Genesis..
Isa 40:21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?

"Who" and "What" do you say is God's image, going by Isa 40:18-22, taken from Genesis from the foundations of the earth, which is referring to the spirit of God (Gen 1:2)?

 

[TomL]

Whoa, you did not hear what I wrote? There are other Christian Gods and Christs that are believed out there, correct. Therefore, they do understand those titles and names referring to "persons," or "what's" differently, and in different ways. You say they cant, and I am pointing out you cant either (obvious by avoidance of Genesis 1).

Other Christian Gods?

Not in Christianity

I agree God created everything through the spirit of God's Son His word.
It's beginning to sound like you are agreeing with me by your one person answer of Christ being the spirit in Genesis, but I am sure you are not.

The Spirit of God's son ?

Not the Holy Spirit? another distinguished from the son?

Never stated the spirit and the spirit are the same person

Yet, just to be sure, not from other passages, but from Genesis..
Isa 40:21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?

"Who" and "What" do you say is God's image, going by Isa 40:18-22, taken from Genesis from the foundations of the earth, which is referring to the spirit of God (Gen 1:2)?

Genesis 1:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Is the Holy Spirit

Seeing as God is Spirit, image refers to nature or essence

The son Jesus Christ in his deity is of the same nature or essence of God the father

and it is he in his pre-incarnate state who did the physical work of creation

John 1:3 (LEB) — 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being.

 

[7xLightray]

Other Christian Gods?

Not in Christianity

My mistake, I thought you were aware of other Christian religions (or denominations, or non-denominations, or even Christian cults), like Oneness: the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, are all the same person! Is that not different than the Trinity God which has three separate persons?

The Spirit of God's son ?

Not the Holy Spirit? another distinguished from the son?

Never stated the spirit and the spirit are the same person

In the beginning was God and His word, and God and His word are spirit, and then the word became flesh. This should not be difficult to grasp for a trinitarian? I know, I was one, it's simpler and straightforward. What do you mean by this, "Never stated the spirit and the spirit are the same person," I would love to know?

Genesis 1:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Is the Holy Spirit

Seeing as God is Spirit, image refers to nature or essence

The son Jesus Christ in his deity is of the same nature or essence of God the father

and it is he in his pre-incarnate state who did the physical work of creation

John 1:3 (LEB) — 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being.

Not sure why you keep mentioning the son (or even the Father) as if it is part of your answer, and especially after you finally said it is the Holy Spirit in Genesis. That could make things confusing (just a suggestion that's all).

That's nice philosophy (anyone can say anything then, if we all just say it is what we think it is), but God did not make it that easy, Isa 40:18-22 is saying it is explained in Genesis.
Can you see it explained in Genesis?
Can you use Genesis to explain it?

Notice in Gen 1:27 where it says God made something(s), or I should say someone(s) in His image, do you think this could have anything to do with it, and help explain it? 1.) "in our image"; 2.) "after our likeness"; 3.)"in his own image"; 4.) "in the image of God."

Isa 40:18-22
18 To whom then will you liken God? or what likeness will you compare unto him? [other than being a person at the time of creation, we agree the Holy Spirit is "the spirit of God" that is God's image? Do we?]
19 The workman melteth a graven image, and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold, and casteth silver chains.
20 He that is so impoverished that he hath no oblation chooseth a tree that will not rot; he seeketh unto him a cunning workman to prepare a graven image, that shall not be moved.
21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth? [it is explained, and can be understood, from Genesis]
22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Gen 1:26-27
1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

How many do you count?
How did God create both him and them? There are two places in Genesis chapters 1 and 2 we can go to for the answers.

 

[TomL]

My mistake, I thought you were aware of other Christian religions (or denominations, or non-denominations, or even Christian cults), like Oneness: the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, are all the same person! Is that not different than the Trinity God which has three separate persons?

No I am trinitarian all the way

In the beginning was God and His word, and God and His word are spirit, and then the word became flesh. This should not be difficult to grasp for a trinitarian? I know, I was one, it's simpler and straightforward. What do you mean by this, "Never stated the spirit and the spirit are the same person," I would love to know?

The Holy Spirit is not the Father or the son

Not sure why you keep mentioning the son (or even the Father) as if it is part of your answer, and especially after you finally said it is the Holy Spirit in Genesis. That could make things confusing (just a suggestion that's all).

I stated the Holy Spirit was in genesis but then so are the son (as the word of God and the Angel of YHWH and the father

That's nice philosophy (anyone can say anything then, if we all just say it is what we think it is), but God did not make it that easy, Isa 40:18-22 is saying it is explained in Genesis.
Can you see it explained in Genesis?
Can you use Genesis to explain it?

Genesis is not the only book in the bible

The New testament identifies Christ as he whom the actual work was done w

Notice in Gen 1:27 where it says God made something(s), or I should say someone(s) in His image, do you think this could have anything to do with it, and help explain it? 1.) "in our image"; 2.) "after our likeness"; 3.)"in his own image"; 4.) "in the image of God."

Gen 1:27 speaks of the creation of man

Man, mankind is a collective which can be expressed with the singular

The our shows God is more than one person

 

[7xLightray]

No I am trinitarian all the way

Whoa, not sure what that was about, this was my question..
"Is that not different than the Trinity God which has three separate persons?"
..and this was my point..
"Oneness: the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, are all the same person! Is that not different than the Trinity God which has three separate persons?"

The Holy Spirit is not the Father or the son

Again, this was my question, "What do you mean by this, "Never stated the spirit and the spirit are the same person,"..?"

I stated the Holy Spirit was in genesis but then so are the son (as the word of God and the Angel of YHWH and the father

Where do you say you see the son (as the word) in Genesis ch. 1?

Genesis is not the only book in the bible

I absolutely agree, but Isa 40:21 is not asking us to look at any other books in the Bible, but to look at a specific place in Genesis, "hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?

The New testament identifies Christ as he whom the actual work was done w

Again, absolutely agree, when God spoke, His word did the actual work that He sent/told/commanded His word to do.
But then, again, that has nothing to do with my point, nor my questions. "That's nice philosophy (anyone can say anything then, if we all just say it is what we think it is), but God did not make it that easy, Isa 40:18-22 is saying it is explained in Genesis. Can you see it explained in Genesis? Can you use Genesis to explain it?"

Gen 1:27 speaks of the creation of man

Man, mankind is a collective which can be expressed with the singular

The our shows God is more than one person

It sure does, and in the image of God, hence the question, "do you think this could have anything to do with it, and help explain it? 1.) "in our image"; 2.) "after our likeness"; 3.)"in his own image"; 4.) "in the image of God."

Absolutely agree, but they are all still individual beings.

Not necessarily, especially, especially, when it says, Isa 40:18 "..or what likeness will you compare unto him?" referring to the spirit of God, pointing to that very chapter, and verse(s), in Genesis!

 

[TomL]

Whoa, not sure what that was about, this was my question..
"Is that not different than the Trinity God which has three separate persons?"
..and this was my point..
"Oneness: the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, are all the same person! Is that not different than the Trinity God which has three separate persons?"

Yes oneness posits but one person.

I posit three persons who are the one God

Again, this was my question, "What do you mean by this, "Never stated the spirit and the spirit are the same person,"..?"

your words

here are other Christian Gods and Christs that are believed out there, correct. Therefore, they do understand those titles and names referring to "persons," or "what's" differently, and in different ways. You say they cant, and I am pointing out you cant either (obvious by avoidance of Genesis 1).

Other Christian Gods?

Not in Christianity

I agree God created everything through the spirit of God's Son His word.
It's beginning to sound like you are agreeing with me by your one person answer of Christ being the spirit in Genesis, but I am sure you are not.

Right there I never identified Christ as being the Spirit

Where do you say you see the son (as the word) in Genesis ch. 1?

In gen 1? The plural pronouns. Lets us make man in our image

That Christ is pictured in the plural pronoun is seen by

John 1:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Colossians 1:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

I absolutely agree, but Isa 40:21 is not asking us to look at any other books in the Bible, but to look at a specific place in Genesis, "hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?


Again, absolutely agree, when God spoke, His word did the actual work that He sent/told/commanded His word to do.
But then, again, that has nothing to do with my point, nor my questions. "That's nice philosophy (anyone can say anything then, if we all just say it is what we think it is), but God did not make it that easy, Isa 40:18-22 is saying it is explained in Genesis. Can you see it explained in Genesis? Can you use Genesis to explain it?"

Regarding creation again it would be the plural pronouns used

Genesis 1:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

It sure does, and in the image of God, hence the question, "do you think this could have anything to do with it, and help explain it? 1.) "in our image"; 2.) "after our likeness"; 3.)"in his own image"; 4.) "in the image of God."

Absolutely agree, but they are all still individual beings.

Not necessarily, especially, especially, when it says, Isa 40:18 "..or what likeness will you compare unto him?" referring to the spirit of God, pointing to that very chapter, and verse(s), in Genesis!

I do not believe Isaiah 40:18 is referring to the Spirit

Isaiah 40:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 To whom then will ye liken God? Or what likeness will ye compare unto him?

A collective noun may take a singular pronoun

Here are a couple of notes I have saved

Are collective nouns singular or plural?

Although they refer to multiple things at once by definition, collective nouns are singular in form. This can make choosing the right verb to use with a collective noun when it’s the subject of a sentence or clause (that is, maintaining subject-verb agreement) a bit tricky—it’s almost like they’re plural and singular at the same time!

. “A pronoun which refers to a collective noun is singular if the group acts as a unit; but the pronoun is plural if the individuals of the group acts as individuals.” [Plain English Handbook, Walsh, p. 27.]

Seeing as I believe Father son and holy Spirit were all involved as a unit in creation a singular pronoun is justified

 

[7xLightray]

Yes oneness posits but one person.

I posit three persons who are the one God

your words




Other Christian Gods?

Not in Christianity





Right there I never identified Christ as being the Spirit



In gen 1? The plural pronouns. Lets us make man in our image

That Christ is pictured in the plural pronoun is seen by

John 1:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Colossians 1:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:







Regarding creation again it would be the plural pronouns used

Genesis 1:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.



I do not believe Isaiah 40:18 is referring to the Spirit

Isaiah 40:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 To whom then will ye liken God? Or what likeness will ye compare unto him?

A collective noun may take a singular pronoun

Here are a couple of notes I have saved

Are collective nouns singular or plural?

Although they refer to multiple things at once by definition, collective nouns are singular in form. This can make choosing the right verb to use with a collective noun when it’s the subject of a sentence or clause (that is, maintaining subject-verb agreement) a bit tricky—it’s almost like they’re plural and singular at the same time!

. “A pronoun which refers to a collective noun is singular if the group acts as a unit; but the pronoun is plural if the individuals of the group acts as individuals.” [Plain English Handbook, Walsh, p. 27.]

Seeing as I believe Father son and holy Spirit were all involved as a unit in creation a singular pronoun is justified

Will you ever answer straightforward, and clearly, the questions I am asking? Who response like this, constantly vague, who? Those who wish to manipulate.
Lets try this one at a time, cause you are deflecting and dodging most, if not all, of my questions, and commenting on many questions not from my last post, but from other posts that you already commented on.
My oh my, you twist almost ever single one of my points, statements, and questions. The 3-in-1 beast has that effect on all who worship it. There is a better way, a much better way!

Lets see if we are able to get a straight answer, from a question I am asking!
Who do you say this refers to in Isa 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth.."?

 

[7xLightray]

Yes oneness posits but one person.

I posit three persons who are the one God

your words




Other Christian Gods?

Not in Christianity





Right there I never identified Christ as being the Spirit



In gen 1? The plural pronouns. Lets us make man in our image

That Christ is pictured in the plural pronoun is seen by

John 1:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Colossians 1:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:







Regarding creation again it would be the plural pronouns used

Genesis 1:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.



I do not believe Isaiah 40:18 is referring to the Spirit

Isaiah 40:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 To whom then will ye liken God? Or what likeness will ye compare unto him?

A collective noun may take a singular pronoun

Here are a couple of notes I have saved

Are collective nouns singular or plural?

Although they refer to multiple things at once by definition, collective nouns are singular in form. This can make choosing the right verb to use with a collective noun when it’s the subject of a sentence or clause (that is, maintaining subject-verb agreement) a bit tricky—it’s almost like they’re plural and singular at the same time!

. “A pronoun which refers to a collective noun is singular if the group acts as a unit; but the pronoun is plural if the individuals of the group acts as individuals.” [Plain English Handbook, Walsh, p. 27.]

Seeing as I believe Father son and holy Spirit were all involved as a unit in creation a singular pronoun is justified

----------------------------
Confusion:

7xLightray asked:
Yet, just to be sure, not from other passages, but from Genesis..
Isa 40:21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?
"Who" and "What" do you say is God's image, going by Isa 40:18-22, taken from Genesis from the foundations of the earth, which is referring to the spirit of God (Gen 1:2)?

TomL replied:
Genesis 1:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Is the Holy Spirit

But then after that,

7xLightray comment:
Not necessarily, especially, especially, when it says, Isa 40:18 "..or what likeness will you compare unto him?" referring to the spirit of God, pointing to that very chapter, and verse(s), in Genesis!

TomL replied:
"I do not believe Isaiah 40:18 is referring to the Spirit"

No clear understanding, vague, sounds contradictory. After all these post I still do not know how you understand Isa 40:18-22, or Genesis 1. From my first post I explained how I understood Isa 40:18-22 and Genesis, and continued to explain, and repeated, but after all these post you still have not explained to your student (after asking and asking), how you understand these.
----------------------------

You make yourself out to be a teacher, because you correct me, yet, you do not shown me how I'm wrong, and how you are right, you just say it is so. This is not teaching. Is this not straight up arrogance? You haven't been able to back up your word with scripture. Yet, when I follow the instructions of Isa 40:18-22 (which says the one above the circle of the earth is His image, and can be referred to as either a who, or a what) I read in Genesis 1:

1) The spirit of God, not God, but the spirit of God, is the only one mentioned above the waters. I would naturally, and logically understand "the spirit of God" to be the image of God. And the word "God" in ver. 1 and "of God" in ver. 2 to be the original (and from Jn 17:3 I understand "God" to be the Father, the only true God) of the image (being "the spirit of God"; and because of Jn 1:1-14 and 17:3 and Pro 30:4 which attributes all these things that God has done to two). I have no other way to interpret these, and no other way of understanding them. You would have to show me another way of understanding these verses, that makes at least as much sense as this does. I would not understand a image of me to be me myself, that would not be an image.

2) About God's image. And this is the only place in Genesis ch. 1 & 2 that a image of God is spoken about. And only two are made in the image of "Us," but you say, no "Us" is "three."

3) I read even more explanation of God's image in ch 2. And there I read that one (the image, and helper) was made from another (the original). which is also what Jesus and John taught in Jn 6:51; Jn 1:14; and that God was His literal father Jn 5:18; and that He came out from God Jn 8:42.

So I have, or read about (in places where it really counts), only two named in the beginning "God" and "the spirit of God" ("us" does not count, it's not a name, or a title, and the image of "Us" is two anyway); where God's image is explained as Adam and Eve (two); Joseph and pharaoh on the throne (two); Pro 30:4 which attributes all these things that God has done to two, a father and son; John 1:1 stating that it was the word and God in the beginning (two); Jn 17:3 a 3-in-1 verse against the Trinity (not to mention Rev 13:1-2, 18) that we are to know only two persons for eternity; Then add, Mark 12 stating the Jews understood "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one," as a singular personal pronoun He.
When put all together, the "he" in Mark 12 is referring to the Father, as Jn 17:3 makes this clear, as well as Jesus calling God his own God.

But, are you saying to me I should not listen to all this clear straightforward evidence, that makes normal regular sense, for vapor doctrine, and vague texts, because you say so? Why?! Seriously, why would anyone give up this gold, for stubble?!

This is how the Trinity doctrine makes void the word of God!

 

[TomL]

----------------------------
Confusion:

Are you confused?

7xLightray asked:
Yet, just to be sure, not from other passages, but from Genesis..
Isa 40:21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?
"Who" and "What" do you say is God's image, going by Isa 40:18-22, taken from Genesis from the foundations of the earth, which is referring to the spirit of God (Gen 1:2)?

TomL replied:
Genesis 1:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Is the Holy Spirit

But then after that,

7xLightray comment:
Not necessarily, especially, especially, when it says, Isa 40:18 "..or what likeness will you compare unto him?" referring to the spirit of God, pointing to that very chapter, and verse(s), in Genesis!

Um

Isaiah 40:18 (NKJV) — 18 To whom then will you liken God? Or what likeness will you compare to Him?

There is no mention of the Spirit here

TomL replied:
"I do not believe Isaiah 40:18 is referring to the Spirit"

No clear understanding, vague, sounds contradictory. After all these post I still do not know how you understand Isa 40:18-22, or Genesis 1. From my first post I explained how I understood Isa 40:18-22 and Genesis, and continued to explain, and repeated, but after all these post you still have not explained to your student (after asking and asking), how you understand these.

Maybe the problem is with you then

Isaiah 40:18 (NKJV) — 18 To whom then will you liken God? Or what likeness will you compare to Him?

as clearly the Spirit is not mentioned

----------------------------

You make yourself out to be a teacher, because you correct me, yet, you do not shown me how I'm wrong, and how you are right, you just say it is so. This is not teaching. Is this not straight up arrogance? You haven't been able to back up your word with scripture. Yet, when I follow the instructions of Isa 40:18-22 (which says the one above the circle of the earth is His image, and can be referred to as either a who, or a what) I read in Genesis 1:

Um you are assuming it is only the Spirit who sits above the circle of the earth

further Gen 1:2 speaks of the spirit hovering over the face of the waters

Genesis 1:2 (NKJV) — 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

There is no justification for assuming Isa 40:22 references the spirit alone

 

[7xLightray]

Are you confused?


Um

Isaiah 40:18 (NKJV) — 18 To whom then will you liken God? Or what likeness will you compare to Him?

There is no mention of the Spirit here





Maybe the problem is with you then

Isaiah 40:18 (NKJV) — 18 To whom then will you liken God? Or what likeness will you compare to Him?

as clearly the Spirit is not mentioned




Um you are assuming it is only the Spirit who sits above the circle of the earth

further Gen 1:2 speaks of the spirit hovering over the face of the waters

Genesis 1:2 (NKJV) — 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

There is no justification for assuming Isa 40:22 references the spirit alone

And you still have not explained! I'm waiting for you to teach me! Deflection! I don't think you can!

Yes, about your doctrine, until you clear it up.

Did not say the spirit was mentioned in Isa 40:18. What I did say is it points to, and refers to, Gen 1:2 which is the spirit of God. You twisted the word "referring" into the word "mention."

Again, did not say the spirit was mentioned in Isa 40:18. What I did say is it points to, and refers to, Gen 1:2 which is the spirit of God. Again, you twisted the word "referring" into the word "mention."

Not assuming, it only mentions the Spirit of God above the circle of the earth, or over the face of the waters, it does not mention anyone else in Gen 1:2. That is believing what it states, until proven otherwise. Point out in Gen 1 where there is anyone else mentioned above the circle of the earth, or over the face of the waters?

There is every justification, until you can show otherwise, plus it make total sense. Gen 1:2 "The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters." All I read here is the spirit of God was over the face, nothing else, or no one else is over the face, well except darkness.

Again, Who do you say this refers to Isa 40:22 "It is he who sits above the circle of the earth.." explained with scripture to back it up.

 

[TomL]

And you still have not explained! I'm waiting for you to teach me! Deflection! I don't think you can!

Maybe you are not teachable

I already explained you have no justification for arguing Isaiah 40:18-42 refers to the holy Spirit alione

Yes, about your doctrine, until you clear it up.

Did not say the spirit was mentioned in Isa 40:18. What I did say is it points to, and refers to, Gen 1:2 which is the spirit of God. You twisted the word "referring" into the word "mention."

No it does not point to the Spoirit alone

Why would you claim it points to the spirit when the Spirit is not mentioned or even refered to

Again, did not say the spirit was mentioned in Isa 40:18. What I did say is it points to, and refers to, Gen 1:2 which is the spirit of God. Again, you twisted the word "referring" into the word "mention."

Not assuming, it only mentions the Spirit of God above the circle of the earth, or over the face of the waters, it does not mention anyone else in Gen 1:2. That is believing what it states, until proven otherwise. Point out in Gen 1 where there is anyone else mentioned above the circle of the earth, or over the face of the waters?

There is every justification, until you can show otherwise, plus it make total sense. Gen 1:2 "The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters." All I read here is the spirit of God was over the face, nothing else, or no one else is over the face, well except darkness.

Again, Who do you say this refers to Isa 40:22 "It is he who sits above the circle of the earth.." explained with scripture to back it up.

God without distinction

Deuteronomy 4:39 (LEB) — 39 So you shall acknowledge today, and you must call to mind that Yahweh is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath. There is no other God.

Deuteronomy 5:8 (LEB) — 8 ‘You shall not make for yourself a divine image of any type of form that is in the heaven above or that is on the earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth.

Joshua 2:11 (LEB) — 11 We heard this, and our hearts melted, and no courage was left in anyone because of your presence. For Yahweh your God is God in the heavens above and on the earth below.

1 Kings 8:23 (LEB) — 23 and he said, “O Yahweh, God of Israel, there is no god like you in the heavens above or on the earth beneath, keeping the covenant and the loyal love for your servants who are walking before you with all their heart.

 

[101G]

To all,
Isaiah do eliminates any Trinity, and or any ONENESS or anything else that is not scriptural.
this is the scripture that do it. Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LSS, ORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

here the LORD, (all caps), who is the Spirit, MADE ALL THING, including Man in Genesis 1:26. Please note he was "ALONE", and "BY HIMSELF".

ALONE means, "having no one else present". this one word kills all trinitarians beliefs and oneness beliefs also. for if he was "ALONE" then there is no other person, or persons who are omni-present, hello. and the term "BY HIMSELF" means, using the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English, "BY", prep.
1. Near; close; as, sit by me; that house stands by a river.
[L. pressus.]
2. Near, in motion; as, to move, go or pass by a church. But it seems, in other phrases,or with a verb in the past time, to signify past, gone beyond. "The procession is gone by;" "the hour is gone by;" "John went by." We now use past as an equivalent word. The procession is gone past. Gone by is in strictness tautology, as now used; but I apprehend by signifies primarily near.
3. Through, or with, denoting the agent, means, instrument or cause; as, "a city is destroyed by fire;" "profit is made by commerce;" "to take by force." This use answers to that of the Latin per, through, denoting a passing, acting, agency, or instrumentality.

THROUGH? yes THROUGH or "BY" HIMSELF, just as Isaiah said, "that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;". he was ALONE and acted "BY" HIMSELF. this is clear as DAY, and straight forth. no excuse here.

there is no excuse in not understanding that God is "ONE" person in the beginning, and diversified himself in flesh and blood in the end, or in these LAST.... Hello, LAST ..... Days.

101G

 

[101G]

@Fred,
do be said, be glad, for the Good news//Gospel has come to you. so, can you debunk what 101G posted? if not cheer up, and be happy that truth/Light/the WISDOM of God is revealed unto you. but the bible is correct, John 3:19 "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." John 3:20 "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." John 3:21 "But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

as said, "argue not with 101G, but argue with the word of God".

101G

 

[TomL]

To all,
Isaiah do eliminates any Trinity, and or any ONENESS or anything else that is not scriptural.
this is the scripture that do it. Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LSS, ORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

here the LORD, (all caps), who is the Spirit, MADE ALL THING, including Man in Genesis 1:26. Please note he was "ALONE", and "BY HIMSELF".

ALONE means, "having no one else present". this one word kills all trinitarians beliefs and oneness beliefs also. for if he was "ALONE" then there is no other person, or persons who are omni-present, hello. and the term "BY HIMSELF" means, using the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English, "BY", prep.
1. Near; close; as, sit by me; that house stands by a river.
[L. pressus.]
2. Near, in motion; as, to move, go or pass by a church. But it seems, in other phrases,or with a verb in the past time, to signify past, gone beyond. "The procession is gone by;" "the hour is gone by;" "John went by." We now use past as an equivalent word. The procession is gone past. Gone by is in strictness tautology, as now used; but I apprehend by signifies primarily near.
3. Through, or with, denoting the agent, means, instrument or cause; as, "a city is destroyed by fire;" "profit is made by commerce;" "to take by force." This use answers to that of the Latin per, through, denoting a passing, acting, agency, or instrumentality.

THROUGH? yes THROUGH or "BY" HIMSELF, just as Isaiah said, "that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;". he was ALONE and acted "BY" HIMSELF. this is clear as DAY, and straight forth. no excuse here.

there is no excuse in not understanding that God is "ONE" person in the beginning, and diversified himself in flesh and blood in the end, or in these LAST.... Hello, LAST ..... Days.

101G

Um a collective noun can take a singular pronoun or reference

Yet Isaiah shows the trinity here

Isaiah 63:9–14 (KJV 1900) — 9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, And the angel of his presence saved them: In his love and in his pity he redeemed them; And he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. 10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: Therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. 11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? Where is he that put his holy Spirit within him? 12 That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, Dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name? 13 That led them through the deep, As an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble? 14 As a beast goeth down into the valley, The Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: So didst thou lead thy people, To make thyself a glorious name

You have the Lord, his Spirit and the messenger of his presence- the pre-incarnate Christ who is also called God and Yahweh
Exodus 3:2–8 (LEB) — 2 And the angel of Yahweh appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush, and he looked, and there was the bush burning with fire, but the bush was not being consumed. 3 And Moses said, “Let me turn aside and see this great sight. Why does the bush not burn up?” 4 And Yahweh saw that he turned aside to see, and God called to him from the midst of the bush, and he said, “Moses, Moses.” And he said, “Here I am.” 5 And he said, “You must not come near to here. Take off your sandals from on your feet, because the place on which you are standing, it is holy ground.” 6 And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face because he was afraid of looking at God. 7 And Yahweh said, “Surely I have seen the misery of my people who are in Egypt, and I have heard their cry of distress because of their oppressors, for I know their sufferings. 8 And I have come down to deliver them from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up from this land to a good and wide land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites.

 

[7xLightray]

Maybe you are not teachable

I already explained you have no justification for arguing Isaiah 40:18-42 refers to the holy Spirit alione

If you explained Isa 40:18-22, I did not see it. In which Post#?
I have no idea what you believe about this passage, that's why I keep asking. All I'm getting is "No it does not point to the Spoirit alone" with no explanation, or scripture, and with no connection to Isa 40:18-22, or Gen 1-2. Not helpful, at all!
Take one post and explain Isa 40:18-22 clearly, so that we can all see, then I'll have nothing to say (or complain) about. And you can always point me back to that Post#.
And, even if you did explain, and I did not understand, yet, I am still asking you to explain so that I can understand you, why would you not give to him who asks, especially, if you are a teacher of correction?

What's your explanation? And why not?

No it does not point to the Spoirit alone

Why would you claim it points to the spirit when the Spirit is not mentioned or even refered to

Why? Why? Why? You give me no reason to consider your words, not with out an explanation, at least a reasonable explanation with scripture. Okay, show it, prove it! Just words until you can show scripture.

Are you saying it is not mentioned, where, in Isa 40:18-22? If so, that is right, the spirit of God is not mentioned in Isa 40:18-22, but Isa 40:18-22 points to Genesis 1:2, which speaks of the spirit of God. So, in that way Isa 40:18-22 points to, or refers to, the spirit of God.
I'm finding it very difficult to believe that a teacher is having a hard time comprehending a question asked by one passage/verse that points to another passage/verse for the answer. Though, I can understand why a trinitarian would not want to (or refuse to) understand Isa 40:18-22, or the answer.

God without distinction

Deuteronomy 4:39 (LEB) — 39 So you shall acknowledge today, and you must call to mind that Yahweh is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath. There is no other God.

Deuteronomy 5:8 (LEB) — 8 ‘You shall not make for yourself a divine image of any type of form that is in the heaven above or that is on the earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth.

Joshua 2:11 (LEB) — 11 We heard this, and our hearts melted, and no courage was left in anyone because of your presence. For Yahweh your God is God in the heavens above and on the earth below.

1 Kings 8:23 (LEB) — 23 and he said, “O Yahweh, God of Israel, there is no god like you in the heavens above or on the earth beneath, keeping the covenant and the loyal love for your servants who are walking before you with all their heart.

What is "God without distinction" for? What's the connection? What does this have to do with Isa 40:18-22, or Genesis 1-2?
Can we deal with Isa 40:18-22, instead of these hit and runs, with no explanation.
Well maybe this, how did God come down from heaven, then?

If you do not want this discussion, just say so! I don't want to force this on you. I just wanted to point something out, but you don't seem willing to receive, or be open. That's fine, your choice.

 

[TomL]

If you explained Isa 40:18-22, I did not see it. In which Post#?
I have no idea what you believe about this passage, that's why I keep asking. All I'm getting is "No it does not point to the Spoirit alone" with no explanation, or scripture, and with no connection to Isa 40:18-22, or Gen 1-2. Not helpful, at all!
Take one post and explain Isa 40:18-22 clearly, so that we can all see, then I'll have nothing to say (or complain) about. And you can always point me back to that Post#.
And, even if you did explain, and I did not understand, yet, I am still asking you to explain so that I can understand you, why would you not give to him who asks, especially, if you are a teacher of correction?

What's your explanation? And why not?


Why? Why? Why? You give me no reason to consider your words, not with out an explanation, at least a reasonable explanation with scripture. Okay, show it, prove it! Just words until you can show scripture.

Are you saying it is not mentioned, where, in Isa 40:18-22? If so, that is right, the spirit of God is not mentioned in Isa 40:18-22, but Isa 40:18-22 points to Genesis 1:2, which speaks of the spirit of God. So, in that way Isa 40:18-22 points to, or refers to, the spirit of God.
I'm finding it very difficult to believe that a teacher is having a hard time comprehending a question asked by one passage/verse that points to another passage/verse for the answer. Though, I can understand why a trinitarian would not want to (or refuse to) understand Isa 40:18-22, or the answer.


What is "God without distinction" for? What's the connection? What does this have to do with Isa 40:18-22, or Genesis 1-2?
Can we deal with Isa 40:18-22, instead of these hit and runs, with no explanation.
Well maybe this, how did God come down from heaven, then?

If you do not want this discussion, just say so! I don't want to force this on you. I just wanted to point something out, but you don't seem willing to receive, or be open. That's fine, your choice.

It's in the post you replied to. How can you say you did not see it?

God without distinction (does not reference the Father or the Spirit or the Son alone)

Deuteronomy 4:39 (LEB) — 39 So you shall acknowledge today, and you must call to mind that Yahweh is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath. There is no other God.

Deuteronomy 5:8 (LEB) — 8 ‘You shall not make for yourself a divine image of any type of form that is in the heaven above or that is on the earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth.

Joshua 2:11 (LEB) — 11 We heard this, and our hearts melted, and no courage was left in anyone because of your presence. For Yahweh your God is God in the heavens above and on the earth below.

1 Kings 8:23 (LEB) — 23 and he said, “O Yahweh, God of Israel, there is no god like you in the heavens above or on the earth beneath, keeping the covenant and the loyal love for your servants who are walking before you with all their heart.

 

[7xLightray]

It's in the post you replied to. How can you say you did not see it?

God without distinction (does not reference the Father or the Spirit or the Son alone)

Deuteronomy 4:39 (LEB) — 39 So you shall acknowledge today, and you must call to mind that Yahweh is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath. There is no other God.

Deuteronomy 5:8 (LEB) — 8 ‘You shall not make for yourself a divine image of any type of form that is in the heaven above or that is on the earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth.

Joshua 2:11 (LEB) — 11 We heard this, and our hearts melted, and no courage was left in anyone because of your presence. For Yahweh your God is God in the heavens above and on the earth below.

1 Kings 8:23 (LEB) — 23 and he said, “O Yahweh, God of Israel, there is no god like you in the heavens above or on the earth beneath, keeping the covenant and the loyal love for your servants who are walking before you with all their heart.

This does not explain Isa 40:18-22. I have never seen you explain from beginning to end the passage of Isa 40:18-22, in how you would understand it. The best I could understand from you, would be like me saying, I myself am the image of myself. And I don't agree with that. My son would be an image of me, a cloned son would be an exact image of me, but I am not my image. I am not the image and the original.

Really? How do you distinguish the Father from the Son, who also somehow descended down from heaven, and ascended. How do you distinguish the Son from the Holy Spirit, or the Holy Spirit from the Father? Somehow they are seperate, yet one and the same, God. Are they the same persons? No, not to a trinitarian! Distinction!

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not the image of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. If that is that what you are trying to say?

Does the spirit of God (God's breath) return to God, when we leave this world? Ecc 12:7 "and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it." How can the spirit return to God?