Isaiah 53:5 The chastisement of our peace was upon Him
- Thread starter Joe
- Start date
civic
Well-known member
Who deserves eternal life ?
Diserner
Well-known member
Follow his question up.
civic
Well-known member
It sounds like it was Jesus ? That’s why I’m asking
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Did you read the verses I posted?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
So we have His Glory?
Yes, did you read mine?
Heb_12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
1Pe_4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
2Pe_1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Sure did. It is why I responded to the words you posted. Did you see that I dealt with your claim concerning Hebrews 5:8.
Christ Jesus BECAME a priest after the order of men. After the order of Melchizedek. He became perfected in His completed Priestly work in the Atonement.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
None of those verses say that we obtain His Glory. He is King of Kings and Lord of Lord. We have no such glory. We will never cease to be servants.
We share in His accomplishments to lesser degree than His rightful position deserves.
There are many false doctrines around such teachings.
Last edited:
Agree-there are many false doctrines-
1Jn 4:1 Beloved, [not every spirit believe], but distinguish the spirits, if [of God they are]! for many false prophets have gone forth into the world.
1Jn 4:2 By this you know the spirit of God -- every spirit which acknowledges Jesus Christ [in flesh having come of God is].
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit which does not acknowledge Jesus Christ [in flesh having come of God is not]. And this is the thing of the antichrist, which you heard that it comes, and [now in the world is] already.
1Jn 4:4 You [of God are], sons, and have overcome them; for greater is the one in you, than the one in the world.
1Jn 4:5 They [of the world are]; because of this [of the world they speak], and the world hears them.
1Jn 4:6 We [of God are]; the one knowing God, hears us; the one who is not of God, does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of the truth and the spirit of the delusion.
civic
Well-known member
It’s Christ who is in us who is the hope of glory. As @praise_yeshua has correctly stated there is no glory in fallen man. God shares His glory with no one. Glory, honor, worship and praise are His alone.
1Pe_4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
Inasmuch (katho). “In so far forth as” (“according to which thing”), old conjunction, in N.T. only here and 2Co_8:12; Rom_8:26.
Ye are partakers of (koinōneite). Present active indicative of koinōneō, old verb (from koinōnos, partner), to share in either with genitive (Heb_2:14) or dative as here (pathēmasin).
That ye may rejoice with exceeding joy (hina charēte agalliōmenoi). Purpose clause with hina and second aorist passive subjunctive of chairō, with the present middle participle of agalliaō to exult (1Pe_1:8), “that ye may rejoice exulting.” See 1Pe_1:6-8 for this same idea associated with the second coming of Christ as here.
RWP
SUFFERING
May we not safely say, there is no book of the Bible which has not some reference to trial, whilst many parts are full of reference to the subject. In the Book of Psalms, e.g., out of one hundred and fifty Psalms, it is reckoned that in ninety some allusion is made to suffering! There is no saint in the Bible, of whose history we have any lengthened record, who was not called to endure trouble in some form; and very frequently the most eminent saints were most tried. Those who were called to important services, were generally trained in the school of affliction.
--Bowes
Payson, in the midst of great suffering, being asked if he saw any special reason for the visitation, replied, "No, but I am as well satisfied as if I should see ten thousand; God's will is the very perfection of all reasons.
Windows For Sermons
Did I say we share Messiah's doxa?
I have left nothing out and stand by what I have posted. It deals with the suffering's of Messiah AND the real cause of His suffering.
But hey-it's 23.35 and I'm tired.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
There is a BIG difference between choosing to suffer for humanity and claiming that God found "emotional pleasure" in the suffering of Christ.
The Scriptures declare that Jesus hated the shame that his humiliation among sinners brought Him. God the Father has the same "attitude" toward the suffering of Christ.
Was there success in the Atonement? Yes. Absolutely. Christ has WON our affections.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
Night and Day difference
Take it up with the prophet Isaiah brother-and I don't advocate "emotional pleasure"-God's ways are not our ways-our "pleasures" is not the same as in the vicarious substitutionary kippur of Messiah-it was YHVH's Boule/thelema-nothing you and I can do about it-I read it, and believe it.
Isa 53:10 Yet YHWHH3068 Conj-w+N-proper-ms Yah·weh וַיהוָ֞ה it pleasedH2654 H8804 V-Qal-Perf-3ms ḥā·p̄êṣ חָפֵ֤ץ to bruise HimH1792 H8763 V-Piel-Inf+3ms dak·kə·’ōw דַּכְּאוֹ֙ He has put [Him] to grief;H2470 H8689 V-Hifil-Perf-3ms he·ḥĕ·lî הֶֽחֱלִ֔י whenH518 Conj ’im- אִם־ You makeH7760 H8799 V-Qal-Imperf-3fs tā·śîm תָּשִׂ֤ים an offering for sin,H817 N-ms ’ā·šām אָשָׁם֙ N1 His soulH5315 N-fsc+3ms nap̄·šōw נַפְשׁ֔וֹ He shall seeH7200 H8799 V-Qal-Imperf-3ms yir·’eh יִרְאֶ֥ה [His] seed,H2233 N-ms ze·ra‘ זֶ֖רַע He shall prolongH748 H8686 V-Hifil-Imperf-3ms ya·’ă·rîḵ יַאֲרִ֣יךְ [His] days,H3117 N-mp yā·mîm יָמִ֑ים and the pleasureH2656 Conj-w+N-msc wə·ḥê·p̄eṣ וְחֵ֥פֶץ of YHWHH3068 N-proper-ms Yah·weh יְהוָ֖ה in His handH3027 Prep-b+N-fsc+3ms bə·yā·ḏōw בְּיָד֥וֹ shall prosper.H6743 H8799 V-Qal-Imperf-3ms yiṣ·lāḥ יִצְלָֽח׃
--and I don't see any reason to keep on repeating myself-guess God can do as He please.
And YHVH's will/wish/desire.
A. THE SERVANT’S SUFFERING IS PUNISHMENT (4).
The earliest and most common moral judgment, which people pass on pain, is that which is implied in its name—that is penal. People suffer because God is angry with them. That is what Job’s visitors concluded about his suffering. Here, Israel says, “We esteemed him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.” That is, they saw the suffering Servant and thought God was striking him.
But now they knew they were wrong. The hand of God was indeed upon the Servant, and the reason was sin, yet the sin was not his, but theirs. Verse 4 makes this clear, and verses 5 and 6 amplify it.
B. THE PUNISHMENT OF THE SERVANT WAS REDEMPTIVE (5, 6).
Note the parallelism of this fifth verse: “he was wounded for our transgressions” and “he was crushed for our iniquities.” The contrast is between “he” and “our.” All his suffering was because of our rebellions and sins.
The second set of expressions clarify the purpose of this vicarious or substitutionary suffering as redemptive: “The chastisement of our peace” and “by his stripes we are healed.” All interpreters of this verse agree that the peace, the healing, is ours in consequence of the chastisement and scourging. The pain was his in consequence of the sin that was ours—that is, the suffering was vicarious. And the pain brought spiritual healing and peace—that is, the suffering was redemptive.
That the suffering is vicarious and redemptive is confessed by Israel in verse 6: “All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned everyone to his own way, and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. The verse begins and ends with “all.” Substitutionary suffering of this Servant touches all who have sinned—and we know that that is all of us.
In every family, in every nation, the innocent suffer for the guilty. Vicarious suffering is not arbitrary or accidental; it comes with our growth, it is of the very nature of life. It is that part of the service of humankind, to which we are all born, and of the reality of which we daily grow more aware.
Vicarious suffering is not a curse. It is service—service to God. It proves to be a power where every other moral force has failed. This is very intelligible, because it is based on love. Any parents who have suffered and sacrificed for their children can understand the impulse.
But people argue that vicarious suffering is unjust. They forget, however, that there are two reasons people endure suffering in this world—justice and love. We often suffer because we ourselves are not innocent. We share the cause of pain in the world. This is justice. But to suffer in service to God is a demonstration of love. The epitome of this is the suffering Servant. Not only is his suffering vicarious—it is voluntary.
Human experience feels it has found its highest and holiest form of love when the innocent is willing to take the blame for others. “Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends,” and greater spiritual service can no one do for others, than to suffer with them and for them that they might be healed spiritually.
But, of course, the suffering of this Servant far outdistanced human vicarious suffering (and it is here the nature of the Servant begins to unfold): his suffering removes sin. We may observe a Moses interceding for the sinful people, asking God to take his life so that wrath could be averted from those worshiping the golden calf. That is noble; it’s magnificent. But it cannot remove sin. God himself had to carry the sins of his people. What all vicarious suffering had failed to do in Israel’s experience, the suffering of our Lord accomplished. Centuries after this oracle was written our divine Lord came and fulfilled to the letter the words of this prophecy. His vicarious suffering would strike the heart into penitence and lift it to peace with God.
IV. “OPPRESSED HE HUMBLED HIMSELF”—THE SUFFERING IS ACCEPTED. (ISAIAH 53:7-9)
If the third stanza confessed that it was for the sins of the people the Servant suffered, the fourth stanza declares that he himself was sinless, and yet silently submitted to all which injustice laid on him.
A. THE SUFFERING SERVANT IS SILENT (7).
What is so remarkable is that although he was afflicted and oppressed, he did not open his mouth. Such a thing is almost unheard of in the Old Testament. No one else could remain silent under pain. In the Old Testament sufferers broke out into one of two voices—the voice of guilt or the voice of doubt. The sufferer is either confessing his sin which the suffering has called to his attention or, when he feels no guilt, he is protesting his suffering, challenging God in argument. David, Jeremiah, Job, and countless others, including us we must confess, are not silent under pain. We confess that we deserve it, or complain that we do not.
Not so with the suffering Servant. He did not open his mouth, but was silent like a sheep led to the slaughter. Why was this Servant the unique sample of silence under suffering? Because he knew the truth. It had been said of him in 52:13: “My servant shall deal wisely.” He knew what he was about. He had no guilt of his own, and no doubts of God. He knew that is was not punishment he was enduring for himself, but that it was a service he was performing—a service laid on him by God, a service for man’s redemption, a service sure of results that were glorious. If anything will enable a person to accept silently his suffering it is this—the knowledge that the suffering was service to God.
B. THE SUFFERING SERVANT IS INNOCENT (8, 9).
The prophet reports that the Servant was innocent. He had done no violence; no guile was found in him. Yet he was taken to judgment by tyrannical powers. It was judicial murder. And when they considered that he was lawfully put to death, they consistently gave him a convict’s grave. On this note the stanza ends. He was innocent, but he willingly submitted to the oppression, an oppression that carried him to an ignominious burial. From all appearances, an innocent man’s life ended fruitlessly. But nothing could be further from the truth.
V. “THE LORD WAS PLEASED”—THE SUFFERING WAS EFFICACIOUS. (ISAIAH 53:10-12)
It appeared to many that the death of this Servant was an awful tragedy. It was utterly a perversion of justice. Surely here passed into oblivion the fairest life that ever lived. People might see and say, God forsakes his own. On the contrary, the fifth stanza begins, God’s will and pleasure was in it.
A. THE SUFFERING WAS GOD’S WILL (10).
“It pleased the LORD to bruise him” begins the theological explanation of the suffering. The verb “pleased” does not mean enjoyment. It basically means that God willed the suffering. It is that kind of pleasure. This is the one message which can render any pain tolerable—God willed it—it is his pleasure. Thus, any that God calls to suffer for his service should make it their purpose to do his will, to please him. Therein is success with God.
19. The Triumph of the Suffering Servant (Isaiah 52:13—53:12) | Bible.org
Introduction Down through history the sufferer has been the astonishment and the stumblingblock of humanity. The ancient barbarians simply got rid of sufferers in their societies. More civilized peoples have dealt more kindly with them; but sufferers remain a problem for philosophers and a...
This is now the 6th time I post on "the pleasure of YHVH" and still some here are misreading it.
