Is Jesus the Christ a human Person?

[Matthias]

the biblical trinity or the creedal trinity ?

Now that’s an interesting development.

 

[Matthias]

There IS NO First, second, or third person. that's only man's theological concept. And there's absolutely NO REAL REASON to claim that Jesus can't be completely HUMAN, and be the FULLNESS of the Godhead Bodily.

That's "only theology" after all. Your "Logic" MEANS NOTHING about things of which YOU KNOW NOTHING.

It isn’t my logic. It’s trinitarianism.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

as an fyi Bob I have no issues someone is trying to make it one and its not me.

I have a feeling that in Heaven, when we get together over coffee (if there is such a thing), we'll have a GOOD LAUGH about how utterly ridiculous some of our "theologies" were.

 

[civic]

I have a feeling that in Heaven, when we get together over coffee (if there is such a thing), we'll have a GOOD LAUGH about how utterly ridiculous some of our "theologies" were.

I hope we do have those conversation lol.

I wonder if their will be tulips in heaven

Maybe just Roses.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

It isn’t my logic. It’s trinitarianism.

I don't do "isms", or "ologies" No need to.

Oops - that makes be the originator of "Carabbianism" I guess. Oh Well.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I hope we do have those conversation lol.

I wonder if their will be tulips in heaven

Maybe just Roses.

I hope there'll be Banjos - and soft dogs (My son has a Great Pyrenees, that's generally almost comatose, but loves to cuddle).

 

[Matthias]

I don't do "isms", or "ologies" No need to.

Then you aren’t a trinitarian. “Trinitarianism doesn’t mean spit.”

I hope you won’t ever forget that, and I hope others will come to believe that.

Oops - that makes be the originator of "Carabbianism" I guess. Oh Well.

 

[civic]

I hope there'll be Banjos - and soft dogs (My son has a Great Pyrenees, that's generally almost comatose, but loves to cuddle).

and some percussion too

 

[civic]

Then you aren’t a trinitarian. “Trinitarianism doesn’t mean spit.”

kind of similar to unitarianism doesn't mean spit ?

what do you mean by that ?

 

[Matthias]

kind of similar to unitarianism doesn't mean spit ?

No. Jewish monotheism is unitarianism, but not the only form of unitarianism.

whats with the sarcasm ?

What’s with you not defending the Trinity in this thread?

If it’s worth defending against one then it’s worth defending against all.

 

[civic]

No. Jewish monotheism is unitarianism, but not the only form of unitarianism.



What’s with you not defending the Trinity in this thread?

If it’s worth defending against one then it’s worth defending against all.

what do you mean by the doesn't mean spit comment ?

I asked you the question first. I will get to yours

 

[Matthias]

what do you mean by the doesn't mean spit comment ?

I’m not the originator of the comment, but I agree with it.

I asked you the question first. I will get to yours

I’ve taken the teaching of trinitarianism more seriously in this thread than you have.

 

[civic]

I’m not the originator of the comment, but I agree with it.

so what does the comment mean to you ?

I want to clearly understand your point with the comment you made.

 

[Matthias]

so what does the comment mean to you ?

The teaching of trinitarianism isn’t worth spit. It’s a false doctrine.

I want to clearly understand your point with the comment you made.

 

[Diserner]

1. Is Jesus the Christ a human person?
2. Is Jesus the Christ a Divine person?
3. Is He both?
4. Is He neither?

1. Yes, 2. Yes, 3. Yes, 4. No.

However, I reject the Hypostatic Union model in favor of the Functional Kenosis model as the more Biblical. The HU model has the man Jesus as a non-personal nature attached to a Divine Person by association; under that model, Jesus does not "become" human, he attaches a mere nature and watches it die on the Cross in all his glories in heaven.

However, Scripture teaches Jesus became a man and left all the glories of heaven, to experience a life like ours and actually suffer in his person; so Christ's real identity was transferred to his humanity and his "I am" really meant "I." You can see a greater expanding of these thoughts here:

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-honest-inquiry-into-the-nature-of-christology-by-a-trinitarian.196/

And I have more writings on it in a few places.

Now as for the umbrella of what constitutes Trinitarianism—you will find disagreement the same as in Unitarianism. Every silly argument you bring against Trinitarians you seems to hypocritically refuse to bring against your own position. Some would not consider me within the pale—I'm fine with that, but consider myself a Trinitarian.

I encourage more engaging in the principle of charity, fairness and good faith, and less picking around to find some loopholes to quibble with.

 

[Matthias]

1. Yes, 2. Yes, 3. Yes, 4. No.

However, I reject the Hypostatic Union model in favor of the Functional Kenosis model as the more Biblical. The HU model has the man Jesus as a non-personal nature attached to a Divine Person by association; under that model, Jesus does not "become" human, he attaches a mere nature and watches it die on the Cross in all his glories in heaven.

However, Scripture teaches Jesus became a man and left all the glories of heaven, to experience a life like ours and actually suffer in his person; so Christ's real identity was transferred to his humanity and his "I am" really meant "I." You can see a greater expanding of these thoughts here:

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-honest-inquiry-into-the-nature-of-christology-by-a-trinitarian.196/

And I have more writings on it in a few places.

Now as for the umbrella of what constitutes Trinitarianism—you will find disagreement the same as in Unitarianism. Every silly argument you bring against Trinitarians you seems to hypocritically refuse to bring against your own position. Some would not consider me within the pale—I'm fine with that, but consider myself a Trinitarian.

I encourage more engaging in the principle of charity, fairness and good faith, and less picking around to find some loopholes to quibble with.

I was raised and trained in historical orthodox trinitarianism (HOT).

I’m defending HOT because trinitarians who should be aren’t.

I’m defending HOT for another reason, too.

***

A historical note: Trinitarians in the not too distant past would have persecuted you, even to the point of torturing and executing you, for the position you’ve taken against HOT.

 

[synergy]

In trinitarian theology? Yes.

Also in binitarian theology and some unitarian theology.

I guess that's a no according to your version of unitarianism? Now what about Christ's human soul? Did He inherit it as part of His human nature at His Incarnation?

 

[Matthias]

Throw away HOT - I’m imploring my readers to seriously consider doing that; many have already - and we’re going back in time to the Ante-Nicene period of Church history.

1700 years of trinitarianism destroyed.

Let’s do this thing.

And once we’ve done that, let’s try to get all the way back to the 1st century. A huge impediment to accomplishing it is removed when we reject HOT.

Trinitarians like Harold O.J. Brown recognized this. Dr. Brown spent his life attemtpting to draw trinitarians back to Chalcedon (AD 451), Constantinople (AD 381), and Nicaea (325). I’m spending mine to opposition to his goal.

 

[synergy]

Throw away HOT - I’m imploring my readers to seriously consider doing that; many have already - and we’re going back in time to the Ante-Nicene period of Church history.

1700 years of trinitarianism destroyed.

Let’s do this thing.

And once we’ve done that, let’s try to get all the way back to the 1st century. A huge impediment to accomplishing it is removed when we reject HOT.

Trinitarians like Harold O.J. Brown recognized this. Dr. Brown spent his life attemtpting to draw trinitarians back to Chalcedon (AD 451), Constantinople (AD 381), and Nicaea (325). I’m spending mine to opposition to his goal.

Yours is a losing battle. From the OT Theophanies to John Chapter 1 to the Early Church Fathers, the Holy Trinity stands supreme throughout all the ages. And there is nothing you can do about it.

 

[Matthias]

I guess that's a no according to your version of unitarianism?

I’m a Jewish monotheist. It’s a no according to Jewish monotheism.

The majority of unitarians would answer yes.

Now what about Christ's human soul? Did He inherit it as part of His human nature at His Incarnation?

This thread is about the teaching of trinitarianism. You’re a trinitarian. I’m a unitarian. It shouldn’t fall to me to teach trinitarianism on a trinitarian owned and operated forum. If you’re up for it, take over the teaching.

There are forum members who have posted in this thread - and maybe a few non-forum members will read it someday - who has asserted that trinitarian teaching on the person of Jesus isn’t worth spit. You have a golden opportunity to defend your teaching in this thread.