Is Jesus the Christ a human Person?

[Matthias]

A detailed response yet you choose to overlook such to imply you can not determine the answer from the response?

I haven’t implied anything. I want to hear it straight from him so that there will be no understanding on my part.

I can tell what the answer is. Why can't you?

You doubled-down on your false witness against me. You can’t do what you think you can do.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Is that all there is to Yeshua HaMashiach?

Never a MAN spake like Jesus. Never.

They shall "HEAR MY VOICE".... a stranger will they not follow. Such is the voice of God.

 

[Matthias]

Is that all there is to Yeshua HaMashiach?

Not in trinitarianism.

I want to be sure that I understand what you believe about Jesus.

Do you believe he is a human person? Or,

Do you believe he is not a human person?

 

[praise_yeshua]

I haven’t implied anything. I want to hear it straight from him so that there will be no understanding on my part.



You doubled-down on your false witness against me. You can’t do what you think you can do.

Some people are afraid to state that Christ is not a human person. The doctrine of the Trinity is complex because the Scriptures can be complex. Person means different things to different people. If you want me to explain more to you, then ask.

This is one of the reasons I believe you have a rudimentary understanding of the Trinity. I realized a long time ago that most people don't care to really know the complexity of the doctrine.

 

[Wrangler]

So Jesus lied in John 2:19?

Not at all. I've used the analogy with me getting my wife coffee. To say I will get her a cup is simply not the same as I did. You know the difference and are pretending it is the same. Can you provide one single verse that states that Jesus DID raise himself from the dead?

 

[Johann]

Never a MAN spake like Jesus. Never.

They shall "HEAR MY VOICE".... a stranger will they not follow. Such is the voice of God.

Amen.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

 

[Wrangler]

if He said He would do it and did not then He lied.

Quite the claim against our Lord you make. Same challenge to you. Can you refer to one verse that says that Jesus DID raise himself from the dead?

 

[Wrangler]

Romans 10:9 establishes Jesus as God.

Extreme eisegesis. It does nothing of the kind. And again, you are left with 2 gods, no trinity.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Not at all. I've used the analogy with me getting my wife coffee. To say I will get her a cup is simply not the same as I did. You know the difference and are pretending it is the same. Can you provide one single verse that states that Jesus DID raise himself from the dead?

Once again, you treat Jesus like you treat any common man.

Jesus explained HOW.... He was going to "get the coffee".

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Where is the power here?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Extreme eisegesis. It does nothing of the kind. And again, you are left with 2 gods, no trinity.

As I've said before, I grow tired of you selective quoting me.....

 

[Matthias]

Some people are afraid to state that Christ is not a human person.

Why do you think such persons afraid to state that Christ is not a human person?

The doctrine of the Trinity is complex because the Scriptures can be complex. Person means different things to different people. If you want me to explain more to you, then ask.

I don’t need you or anyone else to explain anything about the Trinity to me. I was taught the Trinity by some of the finest minds in trinitarian scholarship.

This is one of the reasons I believe you have a rudimentary understanding of the Trinity.

Any other reasons you have on the matter are equally unfounded.

I realized a long time ago that most people don't care to really know the complexity of the doctrine.

So did I.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Why are such persons afraid to state that Christ is not a human person?

Do you want to know or not?

I don’t need you or anyone else to explain anything about the Trinity to me. I was taught the Trinity by some of the finest minds in trinitarian scholarship.

No you were not. It shows.

Any other reasons you have on the matter are equally unfounded.

Do you want to have a formal debate? I do require that you make your argument clear and respond line for line to my own?

 

[Matthias]

Do you want to know or not?

I asked you why and you didn’t provide an answer.

I would welcome any trinitarian who believes that Jesus is not a human person and is afraid to say so to explain why he or she is afraid to say so.

No you were not. It shows.

You’re continuing to bear false witness against me.

Do you want to have a formal debate?

No. I’ve already explained several times on this forum (and many others) when and why I gave up debating.

I do require that you make your argument clear and respond line for line to my own?

Why are you asking me about what you require?

 

[Johann]

Not in trinitarianism.

I want to be sure that I understand what you believe about Jesus.

Do you believe he is a human person? Or,

Do you believe he is not a human person?

You seem to have a very low Christological view of Christ Jesus-are you excluding the incarnation of Christ? And what was/haya Jesus BEFORE His incarnation? Is Messiah not
Melech-Kohen and Navi?
Is Messiah just a mere "human person" to you? And you want me to concur? I believe Yeshua is my Lord and my Savior!

My previous post you did not comment on-



Now, because Jesus Christ is God, his personhood is united forever to his divine nature and that did not change at the Incarnation (because God cannot change).

Instead of changing “into” a human, Jesus assumed an additional human nature (intellect, will, and body) but Jesus did NOT assume an additional human person. Jesus Christ did not become two people – he remained one person (a divine person).

Although human natures and human persons typically go together one-to-one (i.e., every human person has a human nature and vice versa), it is not metaphysically necessary that they do so.

In the case of the Incarnation a “personless” human nature was added to the divine person of Jesus Christ such that he now has a human nature as well.

Thus, it is true to say that Jesus Christ is a human being (because he is a person with a human nature), but it is false to say he is a human person (because his human nature did not generate a new person).

Preach the gospel man-this is not a Bible quiz.
J.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I asked you why and you didn’t provide an answer.

I would welcome any trinitarian who believes that Jesus is not a human person and is afraid to say so to explain why he or she is afraid to say so.

You’re continuing to bear false witness against me.

No. I’ve already explained several times on this forum (and many others) when and why I gave up debating.

Why are you asking me about what you require?

Jesus is a Divine Person. Not solely a human person.

It is really simple. Most people do not want to distract from the humanity of Jesus Christ.

We can discuss this without a formal debate but I do grow tired of Unitarians selectively quoting what I say. I spend time to post and I don't appreciate random attacks on my comments.

I'm challenging you to actually deal with what I say. I have told you why I do not use secondary sources in an authoritative manner. I disarmed your argument in the OP. If you want to discuss the Scriptures, lets do it. You're avoiding this.

I'm sure you've read some books. I'm sure you've attended classes. I'm sure you have someone that has spoon feed you information. I'm an adult. I speak my mind. I don't need someone else to make argument for me. You're avoiding this. You never made the doctrine your own. You've questioned it. You can't know something completely if you do not believe it.

 

[civic]

Quite the claim against our Lord you make. Same challenge to you. Can you refer to one verse that says that Jesus DID raise himself from the dead?

I quoted it and the disciples said they believed His exact words after His Resurrection

Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body. 22 After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

 

[Wrangler]

Once again, you treat Jesus like you treat any common man.

Jesus must be treated as any common man IF he is the guarentee of our inheritance, if he is to be the first fruits of the resurrection. Must be the case. There is no theological out.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Jesus must be treated as any common man IF he is the guarentee of our inheritance, if he is to be the first fruits of the resurrection. Must be the case. There is no theological out.

How does your comments change anything I've said. Please explain in detail.

 

[Matthias]

You seem to have a very low Christological view of Christ Jesus-are you excluding the incarnation of Christ? And what was/haya Jesus BEFORE His incarnation? Is Messiah not
Melech-Kohen and Navi?
Is Messiah just a mere "human person" to you? And you want me to concur? I believe Yeshua is my Lord and my Savior!

My previous post you did not comment on-



Now, because Jesus Christ is God, his personhood is united forever to his divine nature and that did not change at the Incarnation (because God cannot change).

Instead of changing “into” a human, Jesus assumed an additional human nature (intellect, will, and body) but Jesus did NOT assume an additional human person. Jesus Christ did not become two people – he remained one person (a divine person).

Although human natures and human persons typically go together one-to-one (i.e., every human person has a human nature and vice versa), it is not metaphysically necessary that they do so.

In the case of the Incarnation a “personless” human nature was added to the divine person of Jesus Christ such that he now has a human nature as well.

Thus, it is true to say that Jesus Christ is a human being (because he is a person with a human nature), but it is false to say he is a human person (because his human nature did not generate a new person).

Preach the gospel man-this is not a Bible quiz.
J.

What precisely do you mean when you ask me if I believe Jesus is a “mere person”?

I’ll answer your question when I understand what your definition of a “mere person” is.

 

[Matthias]

Jesus is a Divine Person. Not solely a human person.

Jesus isn’t a human person at all in orthodox trinitarianism.

It is really simple. Most people do not want to distract from the humanity of Jesus Christ.

We can discuss this without a formal debate but I do grow tired of Unitarians selectively quoting what I say. I spend time to post and I don't appreciate random attacks on my comments.

I'm challenging you to actually deal with what I say. I have told you why I do not use secondary sources in an authoritative manner. I disarmed your argument in the OP. If you want to discuss the Scriptures, lets do it. You're avoiding this.

I'm sure you've read some books. I'm sure you've attended classes. I'm sure you have someone that has spoon feed you information. I'm an adult. I speak my mind. I don't need someone else to make argument for me. You're avoiding this. You never made the doctrine your own. You've questioned it. You can't know something completely if you do not believe it.

You can’t know something completely if you do not believe it? That’s nonsense, on multiple levels.