Is God a Narcissist in Calvinism ?

Why ? Why do men start out evil?
  • Why is irrelevant. It is enough that God has said that it is so.

Ephesians 2:1-3 [NASB]
And you were dead in your offenses and sins, in which you previously walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all previously lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the rest.
  • ALL and "just as the rest" means ALL (no exceptions).

Romans 3:10-12 [NASB]
as it is written: "THERE IS NO RIGHTEOUS PERSON, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NO ONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NO ONE WHO SEEKS OUT GOD; THEY HAVE ALL TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME CORRUPT; THERE IS NO ONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
  • same truth, different words.

Psalm 51:5-9 [NASB]
Behold, I was brought forth in guilt, And in sin my mother conceived me. Behold, You desire truth in the innermost being, And in secret You will make wisdom known to me. Purify me with hyssop, and I will be clean; Cleanse me, and I will be whiter than snow. Let me hear joy and gladness, Let the bones You have broken rejoice. Hide Your face from my sins And wipe out all my guilty deeds.
  • We are born in guilt and sin
  • God demands truth and wisdom
  • only GOD can wipe away our guilt.
 
How is the baby free to follow its desires if it did not choose to be born totally unable to desire good?
Did God permit it by decreeing it?
When did you teach your children to sin?
  • How soon did you teach an infant "anger"?
  • How young did you train your toddler to "lie"?
  • At what point did you have to tell them NOT TO SHARE ("greed")?
Before Preschool/Kindergarten, most children only had YOU to teach them, so if they were not BORN with sin, then when did you start to teach them? How much effort did you invest in teaching sin?
 
Why ? Why do men start out evil?
Why is irrelevant. It is enough that God has said that it is so
If you're heart is hardened as a cold stone...
Then yes I can understand why it would not matter to you.
Those who lack compassion for others, for their fate of being burned for eternity in hellfire as their reason for why God created them(your religion not mine).
Then I can understand why you view my questions as irrelevant.
 
When did you teach your children to sin?
  • How soon did you teach an infant "anger"?
  • How young did you train your toddler to "lie"?
  • At what point did you have to tell them NOT TO SHARE ("greed")?
Before Preschool/Kindergarten, most children only had YOU to teach them, so if they were not BORN with sin, then when did you start to teach them? How much effort did you invest in teaching sin?
Do you have children?
Your religion teaches babies are TOTALLY DEPRAVED. There is no good in them.
So they would be totally unable to do anything that is good, yet calvinist raise their children teaching them to be good.
I've never met a calvinist that lives out their theology in real life.
Because in real life it exposes its absurdity.
 
If you're heart is hardened as a cold stone...
Then yes I can understand why it would not matter to you.
Those who lack compassion for others, for their fate of being burned for eternity in hellfire as their reason for why God created them(your religion not mine).
Then I can understand why you view my questions as irrelevant.
"The way of the Lord is not fair." - Ezekiel 18, 33
 
Your religion teaches babies are TOTALLY DEPRAVED. There is no good in them.
That is NOT what "Total Depravity" teaches.

"While often misunderstood, the doctrine of total depravity is an acknowledgement that the Bible teaches that as a result of the fall of man (Genesis 3:6) every part of man—his mind, will, emotions and flesh—have been corrupted by sin. In other words, sin affects all areas of our being including who we are and what we do. It penetrates to the very core of our being so that everything is tainted by sin and “…all our righteous acts are like filthy rags” before a holy God (Isaiah 64:6). It acknowledges that the Bible teaches that we sin because we are sinners by nature. Or, as Jesus says, “So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.” (Matthew 7:17-18)." - GotQuestions

You spend a lot of time rejecting scripture.
 
That is NOT what "Total Depravity" teaches.

"While often misunderstood, the doctrine of total depravity is an acknowledgement that the Bible teaches that as a result of the fall of man (Genesis 3:6) every part of man—his mind, will, emotions and flesh—have been corrupted by sin. In other words, sin affects all areas of our being including who we are and what we do. It penetrates to the very core of our being so that everything is tainted by sin and “…all our righteous acts are like filthy rags” before a holy God (Isaiah 64:6). It acknowledges that the Bible teaches that we sin because we are sinners by nature. Or, as Jesus says, “So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.” (Matthew 7:17-18)." - GotQuestions

You spend a lot of time rejecting scripture.
You change your doctrine when it suits you.

Calvanist RC Sproul quote:
" John Calvin wrote-- and it was an unguarded statement, to be sure-- but he wrote that "babies are as depraved as rats. I just wish he never wrote that. It's one of the few places I disagree cause it's such a gross insult to the rat. Those poor rats are just chasing cheese, running away from cats...but the baby is a blasphemy."

Truly, calvinist have more compassion for rodents than they do their own children.
What a religion.
 
You change your doctrine when it suits you.

Calvanist RC Sproul quote:
" John Calvin wrote-- and it was an unguarded statement, to be sure-- but he wrote that "babies are as depraved as rats. I just wish he never wrote that. It's one of the few places I disagree cause it's such a gross insult to the rat. Those poor rats are just chasing cheese, running away from cats...but the baby is a blasphemy."

Truly, calvinist have more compassion for rodents than they do their own children.
What a religion.
Ahhh the sound byte.
Let's see what RC says when you read his whole paper on "Total Depravity" ...

TULIP and Reformed Theology: Total Depravity​

R.C. SproulR.C. Sproul


TULIP and Reformed Theology: Total Depravity

3 Min Read
The doctrine of total depravity reflects the Reformed viewpoint of original sin. That term—original sin—is often misunderstood in the popular arena. Some people assume that the term original sin must refer to the first sin—the original transgression that we’ve all copied in many different ways in our own lives, that is, the first sin of Adam and Eve. But that’s not what original sin has referred to historically in the church. Rather, the doctrine of original sin defines the consequences to the human race because of that first sin.

Virtually every church historically that has a creed or a confession has agreed that something very serious happened to the human race as a result of the first sin—that first sin resulted in original sin. That is, as a result of the sin of Adam and Eve, the entire human race fell, and our nature as human beings since the fall has been influenced by the power of evil. As David declared in the Old Testament, “Oh, God, I was born in sin, and in sin did my mother conceive me” (Ps. 51:5). He was not saying that it was sinful for his mother to have borne children; neither was he saying that he had done something evil by being born. Rather, he was acknowledging the human condition of fallenness—that condition that was part of the experience of his parents, a condition that he himself brought into this world. Therefore, original sin has to do with the fallen nature of mankind. The idea is that we are not sinners because we sin, but that we sin because we are sinners.

In the Reformed tradition, total depravity does not mean utter depravity. We often use the term total as a synonym for utter or for completely, so the notion of total depravity conjures up the idea that every human being is as bad as that person could possibly be. You might think of an archfiend of history such as Adolf Hitler and say there was absolutely no redeeming virtue in the man, but I suspect that he had some affection for his mother. As wicked as Hitler was, we can still conceive of ways in which he could have been even more wicked than he actually was. So the idea of total in total depravity doesn’t mean that all human beings are as wicked as they can possibly be. It means that the fall was so serious that it affects the whole person. The fallenness that captures and grips our human nature affects our bodies; that’s why we become ill and die. It affects our minds and our thinking; we still have the capacity to think, but the Bible says the mind has become darkened and weakened. The will of man is no longer in its pristine state of moral power. The will, according to the New Testament, is now in bondage. We are enslaved to the evil impulses and desires of our hearts. The body, the mind, the will, the spirit—indeed, the whole person—have been infected by the power of sin.

The doctrine of original sin defines the consequences to the human race because of that first sin.
I like to replace the term total depravity with my favorite designation, which is radical corruption. Ironically, the word radical has its roots in the Latin word for “root,” which is radix, and it can be translated root or core. The term radical has to do with something that permeates to the core of a thing. It’s not something that is tangential or superficial, lying on the surface. The Reformed view is that the effects of the fall extend or penetrate to the core of our being. Even the English word core actually comes from the Latin word cor, which means “heart.” That is, our sin is something that comes from our hearts. In biblical terms, that means it’s from the core or very center of our existence.

So what is required for us to be conformed to the image of Christ is not simply some small adjustments or behavioral modifications, but nothing less than renovation from the inside. We need to be regenerated, to be made over again, to be quickened by the power of the Spirit. The only way in which a person can escape this radical situation is by the Holy Spirit’s changing the core, the heart. However, even that change does not instantly vanquish sin. The complete elimination of sin awaits our glorification in heaven.


This article is part of the TULIP and Reformed Theology collection and was originally published May 25, 2017.
 
For what little it might be worth, Calvin is "REFORMED" and RC Sproul is "PRESBYTERIAN" and I am a "PARTICULAR BAPTIST" like Charles Spurgeon ... so neither Calvin nor Sproul are authoritative nor reflective of my theology. They just happen to have gotten some BIBLICAL things right (like people are sinful, so God must saves us) and some things wrong (like baptizing babies that have not: "confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead" [Rom 10:9-10].)
 
Ahhh the sound byte.
Let's see what RC says when you read his whole paper on "Total Depravity" ...

TULIP and Reformed Theology: Total Depravity​

R.C. SproulR.C. Sproul


TULIP and Reformed Theology: Total Depravity

3 Min Read
The doctrine of total depravity reflects the Reformed viewpoint of original sin. That term—original sin—is often misunderstood in the popular arena. Some people assume that the term original sin must refer to the first sin—the original transgression that we’ve all copied in many different ways in our own lives, that is, the first sin of Adam and Eve. But that’s not what original sin has referred to historically in the church. Rather, the doctrine of original sin defines the consequences to the human race because of that first sin.

Virtually every church historically that has a creed or a confession has agreed that something very serious happened to the human race as a result of the first sin—that first sin resulted in original sin. That is, as a result of the sin of Adam and Eve, the entire human race fell, and our nature as human beings since the fall has been influenced by the power of evil. As David declared in the Old Testament, “Oh, God, I was born in sin, and in sin did my mother conceive me” (Ps. 51:5). He was not saying that it was sinful for his mother to have borne children; neither was he saying that he had done something evil by being born. Rather, he was acknowledging the human condition of fallenness—that condition that was part of the experience of his parents, a condition that he himself brought into this world. Therefore, original sin has to do with the fallen nature of mankind. The idea is that we are not sinners because we sin, but that we sin because we are sinners.

In the Reformed tradition, total depravity does not mean utter depravity. We often use the term total as a synonym for utter or for completely, so the notion of total depravity conjures up the idea that every human being is as bad as that person could possibly be. You might think of an archfiend of history such as Adolf Hitler and say there was absolutely no redeeming virtue in the man, but I suspect that he had some affection for his mother. As wicked as Hitler was, we can still conceive of ways in which he could have been even more wicked than he actually was. So the idea of total in total depravity doesn’t mean that all human beings are as wicked as they can possibly be. It means that the fall was so serious that it affects the whole person. The fallenness that captures and grips our human nature affects our bodies; that’s why we become ill and die. It affects our minds and our thinking; we still have the capacity to think, but the Bible says the mind has become darkened and weakened. The will of man is no longer in its pristine state of moral power. The will, according to the New Testament, is now in bondage. We are enslaved to the evil impulses and desires of our hearts. The body, the mind, the will, the spirit—indeed, the whole person—have been infected by the power of sin.


I like to replace the term total depravity with my favorite designation, which is radical corruption. Ironically, the word radical has its roots in the Latin word for “root,” which is radix, and it can be translated root or core. The term radical has to do with something that permeates to the core of a thing. It’s not something that is tangential or superficial, lying on the surface. The Reformed view is that the effects of the fall extend or penetrate to the core of our being. Even the English word core actually comes from the Latin word cor, which means “heart.” That is, our sin is something that comes from our hearts. In biblical terms, that means it’s from the core or very center of our existence.

So what is required for us to be conformed to the image of Christ is not simply some small adjustments or behavioral modifications, but nothing less than renovation from the inside. We need to be regenerated, to be made over again, to be quickened by the power of the Spirit. The only way in which a person can escape this radical situation is by the Holy Spirit’s changing the core, the heart. However, even that change does not instantly vanquish sin. The complete elimination of sin awaits our glorification in heaven.


This article is part of the TULIP and Reformed Theology collection and was originally published May 25, 2017.
You are proving calvinism teaches babies are born totally wicked in sin.
Calvinism was never a logical doctrine. So it cannot be fully explained rationally.
Calvinism is full of double speak.
Reading through this you learn Sproul was an inconsistent and contradictory, Affirming both A and not A.

Quote from Sprol "our nature as human beings since the fall has been influenced by the power of evil"

Quote from Sprol "the body the mind the will, the spirit -- indeed, the whole person --have been infected by the power of sin."

Quote from Sprol " the reformed view is that the effects of the fall extend or penetrate to the core of our being."

Quote from Sprol "Therefore orginal sin has to do with the fallen nature of mankind. The idea is that we are not sinners because we sin but that we sin because we are sinners

Quote from Sprol: Heres were he contradicts everything he has said. He now claims we are not totally sinful, yet evil has penetrated to the core of our being. The body, mind, soul, will and spirit has been infected by sin.
Yet somehow eh, were not really all bad!!!

Quote " in Reformed theology tradition, total depravity does not mean utter depravity. We often use the term total as a synonym for utter or completely so the notion of total depravity conquers up the idea that every human being as bad as that person could possibly be. You might think of....such as Hitler and say there was absolutely no redeeming virtue in the man, but I suspect that he had some affection for his mother...

These ideas describing the fallen sinful nature of man do not align with NOT being totally depraved. As Sproul likes to describe total depravity as not totally depraved.

This is not insight into understanding theories of Calvinism but exposing its illogical contradictions.
Nowhere does the Bible use these foolish made up terms.
It is obvious this doctrine is man made.

Hitler having love for his mother being totally depraved, once again proves calvinist do not even believe their own doctrine yet demand non-calvinist's to except it as God breathed.

Calvinist love to use the argument that non-calvinist's misrepresent their doctrine.
That we do not understand it.
Well that makes sense because it cannot be understood nor can you know for sure what they even believe as they themselves dont agree.

Heres another calvinist group saying total depravity is total depravity,
Quote from Protestant Reformed Chrurches in America,
" total depravity means...that every part of mans existence is filled with wickedness...his will is in bondage so that he cannot even want what is good."

Now how could Hitler want to have affection for his mother and have affection for his mother when he cannot even want what is good?
These questions cannot be answered Biblically because this is all from the minds of foolish men.

Mark 7:7-8,
- in vain do they worship Me teaching as doctrines the commandments of men for laying aside the commandment of God you hold the tradition of men..

1Timothy 4:1-3,
- now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons speaking lies in hypocrisy having their own conscience seared with a hot iron..

 
For what little it might be worth, Calvin is "REFORMED" and RC Sproul is "PRESBYTERIAN" and I am a "PARTICULAR BAPTIST" like Charles Spurgeon ... so neither Calvin nor Sproul are authoritative nor reflective of my theology
Big mess ain't it.
Yet, you demand I believe calvinism is from the Holy Spirit.
 
You change your doctrine when it suits you.

Calvanist RC Sproul quote:
" John Calvin wrote-- and it was an unguarded statement, to be sure-- but he wrote that "babies are as depraved as rats. I just wish he never wrote that. It's one of the few places I disagree cause it's such a gross insult to the rat. Those poor rats are just chasing cheese, running away from cats...but the baby is a blasphemy."

Truly, calvinist have more compassion for rodents than they do their own children.
What a religion.
All I can say is that had to be his lead up to his support of Baby Baptisms....................................
 
Big mess ain't it.
Yet, you demand I believe calvinism is from the Holy Spirit.
Wooo. Wait a moment. I am 100% monergist. I DEMAND nothing from you. I don't even ask anything from you.
I just offered an answer to your question and corrected your flawed definition of "Total Depravity" (which actually teaches that "every part of man is impacted by sin", not that people are "utterly depraved sociopaths" as you use the term.)
 
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